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Old 06-12-2018, 06:10 PM   #1
Rev06
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Default For Jarheads and Fans of ALICE

From the Marine Times.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/new...-battle-ahead/

As much as I hate to feed the nostalgia, in the case of ALICE Pack frames and cold weather, I guess they don't (or didn't) make em like they used to.

The Marine Times article discusses issues faced in Extreme Cold Weather environments, something of an obsession of mine.

Here is a small snippet:

"Marines in Norway in 2016 found that their standard issue pack frames for the FILBE ruck were breaking in cold *weather climates. The Corps is now fielding new reinforced frames.

But as a contingency, the Marines most recently deployed to Norway brought old-school ALICE pack frames, a ruck that the Corps has used off and on since 1974.

“We did make a switch to the ALICE pack frames,” Fortune said. Those frames have “held up very well so far, not as much concern with those that they are going to snap.”
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Old 06-12-2018, 06:13 PM   #2
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Nothing wrong with "old school".

IMHO, a number of "new purchases" / "new technology" items adopted by the military are just a load of bollocks.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:25 PM   #3
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Guess it's time to move my ALICE pack up to my cold weather BOL. I knew I was keeping that thing around for a reason other than hoarding.
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev06 View Post
Guess it's time to move my ALICE pack up to my cold weather BOL. I knew I was keeping that thing around for a reason other than hoarding.
Your ALICE frame isn't gonna be affected by

- solar radiation ( UV breaks down plastics )

- solvents ( ooops, spilt gasoline / diesel / JP8 on it )

- temperatures ( the issue recently found with the "new" plastic frames was that the extreme cold made them brittle and very easily breakable )
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:37 PM   #5
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my preference was always with the Gibralter lc-1 frame
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:54 PM   #6
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I still rock the ALICE gear after all these years. I never got caught up in the new-fangled stuff. Adequate technology is adequate.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:22 PM   #7
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We were rocking them in the mid 2000's still. The new 'space age' ILBE's went in the supply warehouse after the first ruck we did with them, and the old Alice packs came back out.

While I was in, we actually even got to test some new "modernized" Alice packs that were concepts. Some were better than others. Few were noticeably better than the originals.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:23 PM   #8
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ALICE is still relevant. That standalone frame can come in handy by itself and you can still use the backpack. I still like the LBE too.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:41 PM   #9
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Alice was massive shit. Maybe they should consider designing an internal frame pack using metal then. I’m zero doubt there are far better pack designs than Alice that civilian market has been using for decades in extreme cold.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:49 PM   #10
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Surprise, the new plastic ones still suck. I lost count of the number of PQDRs we put in for those things.

The riveted aluminum ALICE frames break in cold weather too, the welded ones are GTG. Basically you strap the new bag to the ALICE frame

Also they had an article about this a year and a half ago, if this isn't the same one.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:30 AM   #11
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I went to Norway for Battle Griffin in 2005. We were normally issued regular ALICE packs but got some goofy looking Army packs that seemed to work well. They had semi internal plastic frame.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:09 PM   #12
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Beat hell out of early 80’s alice pack and web gear in the corps. Wish I still had some, just a civvie kelty aluminum frame now... .
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:19 AM   #13
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Once you foam wrap the Alice and upgrade the straps it isn't that bad..otherwise they suck for lightweight guys under 200
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:29 AM   #14
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The ILBE we got rid of starting in 2012 was a good pack, I liked it. The one we replaced it with is a heap of shit
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire4Effect View Post
Alice was massive shit. Maybe they should consider designing an internal frame pack using metal then. I’m zero doubt there are far better pack designs than Alice that civilian market has been using for decades in extreme cold.
Bingo.

Those who have humped one for any distance with a full load know this.

The frame holds the pack off away from your body, basically putting it on a fulcrum and making it feel even heavier. Forces you to lean forward like a beggar.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by DesertGunner View Post
Bingo.

Those who have humped one for any distance with a full load know this.

The frame holds the pack off away from your body, basically putting it on a fulcrum and making it feel even heavier. Forces you to lean forward like a beggar.
That just means your suspension system was wrong. Either not adjusted to your body properly, or not anchored to the frame properly.
External frame packs (of any sort) will enable you to comfortably carry MORE weight, and will encourage you to stand up straighter.

Internal frame packs do a better job at maintaining your center of balance, and keeping you more nimble. They are known to cause people to hunch over, though.


I wasn’t in the military, but I’ve backpacked with ALICE and other packs on multiple 20+mile/day trips. I didn’t mind ALICE, but prefer newer designs.
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Old 06-15-2018, 11:00 PM   #17
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The frame holds the pack off away from your body, basically putting it on a fulcrum and making it feel even heavier. Forces you to lean forward like a beggar.
That's how the current plastic frame one is. It was supposedly designed to be more comfortable to carry it while wearing your flak
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:46 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cypheros View Post
That just means your suspension system was wrong. Either not adjusted to your body properly, or not anchored to the frame properly.
External frame packs (of any sort) will enable you to comfortably carry MORE weight, and will encourage you to stand up straighter.

Internal frame packs do a better job at maintaining your center of balance, and keeping you more nimble. They are known to cause people to hunch over, though.


I wasn’t in the military, but I’ve backpacked with ALICE and other packs on multiple 20+mile/day trips. I didn’t mind ALICE, but prefer newer designs.
It was poorly designed.


Obviously the guy in the pic doesn't even have his shoulder straps tightened, but it doesn't change the fact that the bottom of the frame LITERALLY holds the pack FOUR TO SIX INCHES away from your body.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...0bdff4cb985e-c



Well designed modern packs, especially internal, are designed to keep the weight closer to your body, and closer to your hips, for a lower center of gravity.

As I pointed out (and I have suffered many miles carrying one), Alice packs hold the weight far away from your body, putting the weight on a fulcrum, with a high center of gravity. Adjusting your straps, etc is NOT rocket science. May seem that way to the starbucks and latte type that work at REI and help rich ladies buy their first backpack, which they will probably only wear from their SUV to their campsite 200 yards away......

I didn't realize HOW much they sucked until getting out of the Army and going backpacking with civilian gear (not even high end stuff either).

The ALICE is also not adjustable for torso size, and only comes in one size. Buying a modern pack (either internal or external) is ALL about getting the right size for your torso, so the pack rides on your body correctly, transferring the weight to your hips.

With an ALICE, tall guys with long torso got the bottom waist part sticking right into their lower to mid-back, making the center of gravity stupid high, and making their shoulders carry all the weight, and short guys got the same part bumping off their ass with every step.

Last edited by DesertGunner; 06-16-2018 at 04:17 AM.
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Old 06-16-2018, 09:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertGunner View Post
It was poorly designed.


Obviously the guy in the pic doesn't even have his shoulder straps tightened, but it doesn't change the fact that the bottom of the frame LITERALLY holds the pack FOUR TO SIX INCHES away from your body.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...0bdff4cb985e-c
Yeah....that's all fucked up....
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:08 AM   #20
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Yes, the Alice is not perfect.... But I have humped a pile of miles with one.

Hard to devise a system that allows you to carry a full combat load (or more) and be comfortable.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:38 AM   #21
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FWIW, I've humped a 60 lb ALICE on a 12 mile ruck march and got more grief from my foot blisters than the pack. With the updated straps and sinched up high on the back it works just fine.
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Old 06-17-2018, 11:11 PM   #22
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Lord knows how many combat equipment jumps I did over the years but I know for a fact that I did 3x with whatever the Army's fancy pants polymer frame bag. On 2x of them the frame cracked on impact. Never had a single ALICE (improved) frame give an inch.
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Old 06-18-2018, 09:50 PM   #23
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The alice frame is damn good, and theres plenty of rucks with more modern suspensions.
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