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Old 08-10-2017, 11:01 PM   #1
KERTWOOD
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Default Arsenal 104ur project for suppressed use

This has been a long time coming and the main reason I got into AK building.

I bought this a couple of years ago from K-var and from the get-go it's been a headache. After waiting around seven months for my form four to clear I went and picked up my new 104ur. Once I got it home, I started looking real close at the build quality and thought to my self what have I wasted my money on. Now mind you, I was pretty much wet behind the ears when it came to the AK, but being a past fabricator, current mechanic and tinkering with other types of firearms I knew quality when I saw it and this definatley lacked from what I've heard concerning Arsenal. Yes, I looked it over at the FFL but didn't take it all in as I was distracted talking to others.

After sending it back to Arsenal it still wasn't right so I said what the heck, it's an AK and we all know they're not perfect so I had it cerakoted black and put it away to focus on other projects. Then after becoming a member here and reading a good bit I realized how crappy Arsenals QC was and that building/general assembly is something I could possibly do on my own, especially with my skill set. So, I started purchasing lots of tools from Forbus, AK-Builder, Toth, Requiem and from individuals with full intent of fixing what I could with this poorly assembled 104 and to use on future projects.

By now you're probably wondering what issues the rifle had. Well, for starters, the front sight/gas block was canted. Following suit, the hinge block was canted leaning all the way over to one side of the trunnion ears. This made the top cover lean to one side as well and thus, a canted sight plane. Then there was the bore not being concentric in relation to the barrel which was not as bad as others I've seen but still off a good amount. The horrible crown job is worth a mention and I can't forget the lever for the hand guard retainer was bent. To finish it off the stock was a tad crooked when locked into the open position which was a easy fix unlike the rest.

Now on to the remedy. I decided to pull the Barrel, FSB/GB, hinge block and hand guard retainer and sell them to help fund the front end rebuild. With the old parts sold I started sourcing their replacements. I managed to locate and buy a second BJ v3.5 Barrel as I already had one on hand and everything else was purchased from K-var. With all the new parts in my possession I decided since I already had a 86 Tula AKS-74U waiting to be built I'd go for something a little different. I wanted a 104ur to primarily run suppressed. So I sent the assembled receiver, barrel and virgin barrel parts over to Tim at Two Rivers. I had him turn down the trunnion journal, thread the barrel 1/228, mill the front sight block to allow the installation of DeadAir brake, populate the rest of the barrel and add the full auto notch and selector markings. He did everything I asked, aligning all parts straight and true but the hinge block still looked canted and that's when I noticed the last of Arsenals crappy assembly habits or lack of QC. The front end of the receiver is slightly twisted but it will have to suffice because I'm not retracing my steps to fix it.

All this brings me to where I am now. After taking back possession from Two Rivers I installed a OG IMI SAR Gilil trigger guard and mag latch housing, sand blasted it myself then took it over to have it cerakoted one last time, which I just picked up this evening.

Now that you're up to date on this project I'll add a few miscellaneous pics that I've scrounged up from past to now. But, from this point on I'll try to add pics as I go with the finishing touches. Next up is to refinish wood following Island's tutorial he posted and a final assembly after I get all parts back from cerakote. Then, just then, I can enjoy something I bought a couple of years ago while trying to get it to run suppressed.

DISCLAIMER! I claim to be no professional builder as I'm just starting out with the small stuff. Also, I'm no English major nor spelling bee champ so be kind to a brother as I don't type/talk much here on the forum.


First cerakote job after second trip to arsenal.


Ready to send off.



Back from Two rivers and blasted.


Galil trigger guard install.



back from cerakote earlier today. Cerakote color: Smoke Gray Elite Series.



Shot of slight twist in front portion of receiver. which I'll live with.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:36 PM   #2
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Project is looking good! I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!
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Old 08-13-2017, 06:06 AM   #3
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Looks good so far, what do you plan to do about the over gassing that will happen when the can is on? I wouldn't want to see the carrier beat the hell out of the rear of the receiver/trunnion.
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Old 08-13-2017, 09:47 AM   #4
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Project is looking good! I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product!
Appreciate it. I hope to have in done in the next few weeks. All that's left is to refinish the wood and assemble. I should have the rest of the parts back from cerakote this week.

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Looks good so far, what do you plan to do about the over gassing that will happen when the can is on? I wouldn't want to see the carrier beat the hell out of the rear of the receiver/trunnion.
It's a possibility that the carrier could strike the rear trunnion. The things I have in store to hopefully avoid this happening is one of thisbuggers extra power recoil springs (+5%,+10%,+15%, or +20%) paired with a buffer if necessary. To further minimize the gases I plan on running a 7.62 Saker or Sandman S, which leaves a bit more volume in the tube and a little around the exit port. If more steps need to be taken I can port the ultimak gas tube or in a last ditch effort I can purchase another FSB/GB with a restrictor but that would need to be milled like the current one and I'm really hoping that it won't come down to this. If it does, it's almost not worth doing but we will see.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:44 AM   #5
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Appreciate it. I hope to have in done in the next few weeks. All that's left is to refinish the wood and assemble. I should have the rest of the parts back from cerakote this week.



It's a possibility that the carrier could strike the rear trunnion. The things I have in store to hopefully avoid this happening is one of thisbuggers extra power recoil springs (+5%,+10%,+15%, or +20%) paired with a buffer if necessary. To further minimize the gases I plan on running a 7.62 Saker or Sandman S, which leaves a bit more volume in the tube and a little around the exit port. If more steps need to be taken I can port the ultimak gas tube or in a last ditch effort I can purchase another FSB/GB with a restrictor but that would need to be milled like the current one and I'm really hoping that it won't come down to this. If it does, it's almost not worth doing but we will see.
Well hopefully you have better luck then I did when I started the journey suppressing my M92. in order to keep the carrier from battering the rear trunnion, I had to buy a second carrier & piston and cut several deep bypass slots in the skirt of my gas piston, on top of running an extra power spring. porting the Ultimak will do nothing to reduce carrier velocity so don't bother with that, also adding a buffer may prevent the trunnion from cracking but it's still going to transfer all the force to the receiver/rivets and your trunnion will end up looking like this poor guys http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_98/16...nnion-out.html .
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:41 PM   #6
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Well hopefully you have better luck then I did when I started the journey suppressing my M92. in order to keep the carrier from battering the rear trunnion, I had to buy a second carrier & piston and cut several deep bypass slots in the skirt of my gas piston, on top of running an extra power spring. porting the Ultimak will do nothing to reduce carrier velocity so don't bother with that, also adding a buffer may prevent the trunnion from cracking but it's still going to transfer all the force to the receiver/rivets and your trunnion will end up looking like this poor guys http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_98/16...nnion-out.html .
Thanks for the link and sharing your experience. I wonder how so many people get away running the DeadAir PBS-1 with out noticeable damanges?

The gas port has a lot to do with the set up as well. While I don't know exactly what port size Blue jack used for his barrels but I hope it's a tad smaller than the norm but who knows. More than likely port size is exactly the same as the original as he made them to be an exact copy.

The piston slots in the piston head is a great idea and I'll definitely keep that in mind. If it doesn't work out I won't sacrifice or demolish the rifle with headstrong determination to suppress. I'll just enjoy it for what it is. I have several other rifle/subguns to play with quietly.
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Old 08-13-2017, 12:54 PM   #7
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Or... hopefully the new KNS precision adjustable AK piston works as planned and they make a shorter version for the krinks.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:17 PM   #8
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Sagillman, could you shoot me a pic of your piston? The image is gone on the other site the link takes me to. Also, would drilling/milling a hole center of piston head and the drilling ports around head help reduce or mitigate the gasses?
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:19 PM   #9
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Or... hopefully the new KNS precision adjustable AK piston works as planned and they make a shorter version for the krinks.
Apparently Definitive Arms will be making adjustable gas blocks with multiple settings too. but until I see them or the KNS piston for sale I don't want to get my hopes up. good luck with your build bud, I like the color already it reminds me of my M85.
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Old 08-13-2017, 01:27 PM   #10
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Sagillman, could you shoot me a pic of your piston? The image is gone on the other site the link takes me to. Also, would drilling/milling a hole center of piston head and the drilling ports around head help reduce or mitigate the gasses?
here's a pic, I would just go straight to making the bypass cuts, don't bother with drilling the hole. the cuts did more at reducing carrier velocity then the hole did.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:49 PM   #11
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here's a pic, I would just go straight to making the bypass cuts, don't bother with drilling the hole. the cuts did more at reducing carrier velocity then the hole did.
Thanks for sharing. I may have recently sent you a PM on arfcom to see if you would update the picture.

My plan with a SLR106UR is buying an extra piston and trying the cuts. When KNS comes out with the adjustable I may try that out.

While I read up on the SLR106UR, I am seeing its piston is 2.25" while the regular AKS74U is 2.00". Anyone know what happens if you run the shorter piston on a suppressed SLR106? It got me thinking the shorter shaft would be a bigger expansion chamber and maybe less total stroke = less energy??? Just thinking about a cheaper solution for a suppressed 106UR.

I am not going to mess with an adjustable gas block.

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Old 09-04-2017, 11:35 AM   #12
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Finished up the assembly today.

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Old 09-04-2017, 10:25 PM   #13
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Looks good. I love running my little 74u(ish) pistol suppressed. You should have lots of fun.
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Old 09-05-2017, 05:29 AM   #14
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Looks good. I love running my little 74u(ish) pistol suppressed. You should have lots of fun.
Thanks. By chance, are you having any over gassing issuses with the carrier hitting the rear trunnion to hard loosening up rivets and such as stated above?

Post a pic of your setup if you would.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:18 AM   #15
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Not on the 74u. I don't know if the gas port isn't straight vertical or if it's just a little small, but if anything it is undergassed. When I don't use any muzzle device the cycling of the action can be felt going back and slamming the next round in. Hard to explain but suffice to say it cycles slower than my 74 rifle and with the can on it is more reliable. My 74 rifle has for lack of better terms, adjusted my rear trunnion position. The rifle is obviously cycling a little hard when suppressed, but is super reliable without the can. I'm sure there's a sweet spot, but having a quickly swapped setup for the suppressor might be the key.

Maybe the stiffer spring that you swap out when the can goes on or a piston mod could work for both I don't know. I'm sure you'll get it fingered out afted some trial. It isn't soviet rocket science after all.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:37 AM   #16
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Kertwood, check out the PDW thread for a picture of my 106UR+suppressor and video of it firing suppressed.

This is my first AK so my experience is limited. I shot maybe a total of 10 rounds unsuppressed for function and did not notice any marks on the rear trunnion. After 20-30 suppressed rounds I noticed marks.

In the short term I am going to use the Wolff XP spring and wait for the KNS adjustable piston. I assumed buying and swapping pistons would be easy, but didn't realize they were pinned. I might still do that if I can buy a 106UR carrier/piston cheap and start messing with the piston.
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Old 09-06-2017, 11:08 AM   #17
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Kertwood, check out the PDW thread for a picture of my 106UR+suppressor and video of it firing suppressed.

This is my first AK so my experience is limited. I shot maybe a total of 10 rounds unsuppressed for function and did not notice any marks on the rear trunnion. After 20-30 suppressed rounds I noticed marks.

In the short term I am going to use the Wolff XP spring and wait for the KNS adjustable piston. I assumed buying and swapping pistons would be easy, but didn't realize they were pinned. I might still do that if I can buy a 106UR carrier/piston cheap and start messing with the piston.
Now I'm worried about my Dead Air Wolverine, still in jail....
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Old 09-06-2017, 05:37 PM   #18
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Now I'm worried about my Dead Air Wolverine, still in jail....
What are you worried about?

The Wolverine is designed as a low back pressure AK can. So it should hopefully add minimal speed to your carrier.

In my case it is the exact opposite. That tan suppressor is designed as an extremely high pressure can designed to keep/hold pressure in the can... and keep noise down. Designed for a bolt gun.

That said, if you plan to shoot 100% suppressed then setup your rifle for that. If you go back and forth, seems like most do, as long as your trunion is not being battered you should be good to go for probably more ammo than you can afford.

Get your PBS-1 and shoot the hell out of it!!! I would love to have one.
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Old 09-06-2017, 06:29 PM   #19
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What are you worried about?

The Wolverine is designed as a low back pressure AK can. So it should hopefully add minimal speed to your carrier.

In my case it is the exact opposite. That tan suppressor is designed as an extremely high pressure can designed to keep/hold pressure in the can... and keep noise down. Designed for a bolt gun.

That said, if you plan to shoot 100% suppressed then setup your rifle for that. If you go back and forth, seems like most do, as long as your trunion is not being battered you should be good to go for probably more ammo than you can afford.

Get your PBS-1 and shoot the hell out of it!!! I would love to have one.
I just figured suppressed AKs in general, my bad. Have only shot an Omega 9k and an Omega 30 cal. Both fucking sweet btw. My Wolverine is locked up at a LGS that doesn't have a rifle range. They were selling it for about 200 bucks less than another neighbouring lgs WITH a rifle range. At the time I thought I had to snag it. But this wait is killing me!! I watch youtube videos of MAC and NFAReview shooting it at least once a week and am sad
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:46 AM   #20
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But this wait is killing me!! I watch youtube videos of MAC and NFAReview shooting it at least once a week and am sad
NFA got you down? Call 900-TAC-TALK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kSncpUnUo
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:19 AM   #21
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NFA got you down? Call 900-TAC-TALK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08kSncpUnUo
Lol, thanks for that.
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