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Old 09-27-2014, 09:23 PM   #1
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Default Looking at .45's again! More Questions!!!

Ok so I'm kinda still shopping around for a .45 with a budget around $700 ish.
I was originally looking for a commander size 1911 but When you cross the $700 mark the options open up to consider other guns.
I like steel/metal guns not polymer so much. A few that is being considered are
Sig 220, 227 , Colt 1911, Springer 1911, CZ 97.
It will be used for occasional carry/range/HD.
The Colt and Springer 1911's praises are sung here on a regular basis, the Sig and CZ 97 not so much. I know da/sa vs. sao is a big difference and that's something I'll need to wrestle with . As far as size goes the Sig is fat at 1.5" wide but it's still a small lengthwise hand gun, the 220 has 7 +1 and the 227 is 10+1. The CZ is about the same size and girth as a 1911, a 1/4 shorter, same weight and almost the same width with aluminum grips, the grip front to back is slightly bigger than a 1911, and it's 10+1 also.
I'm not opposed to throwing a few more $$$ to the purchase but the Sig and CZ are order only guns, I can't find any to handle but a 226. Honestly my gut tells me to just buy a 1911 but the CZ is sexy and the Sig ? I just don't know, so I'm here to ask opinions .
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:27 PM   #2
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Sar K2 double stack or P220 gets my vote
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:33 PM   #3
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The RIA 1911s will be dirt cheap around Black Friday.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:54 PM   #4
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I love my 220 . you can find German ones for cheap
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:02 AM   #5
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I love my P220 Equinox.
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:11 AM   #6
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RIA is cheep ..But I love the sig ... You can get 10 round mags for the 220 by the by ..

I have a E German and a Elite ..Great little things and the 227 ( my next gun maybe ) can hold up to 14 ...

I am a sig and glock man so I got to say sig :



But 1911 are very nice too ... Hard to say ...I have both fixes the problem
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:20 AM   #7
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Sigs are great to me, I would take one over a 1911, just cant imagine using one for CCW.
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:20 AM   #8
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The early 45 ACP Sig P220 manuals say not to use +P ammo in them. Later Sig beefed up the design and they can handle +P ammo according to Sig.
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ak-47 View Post
Sigs are great to me, I would take one over a 1911, just cant imagine using one for CCW.
Why not I do ...
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:08 AM   #10
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if i've said it once, ive said it a thousand times... (though everyone seems to poo poo theses around here)

Para Ordnance P-14. best dang .45 ive ever owned. smooth, reliable, 14+1 capacity, and just looks/feels absolutely awesome.

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Old 09-28-2014, 08:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pre1989 View Post
RIA is cheep ..But I love the sig ... You can get 10 round mags for the 220 by the by ..

I have a E German and a Elite ..Great little things and the 227 ( my next gun maybe ) can hold up to 14 ...

I am a sig and glock man so I got to say sig :



But 1911 are very nice too ... Hard to say ...I have both fixes the problem
What Sig is the top one
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:20 AM   #12
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PD trade in USP .45 full size variant 1 should run at or below what you want to spend.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:25 AM   #13
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FNX-45?

Mag capacity is a beast.
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:31 AM   #14
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^ that is why I said Sar K2 ^
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ak-47 View Post
The RIA 1911s will be dirt cheap around Black Friday.
Enquiring minds want to know...

It is hard to beat RIAs in price/performance for 1911s.
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Old 09-28-2014, 06:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhush View Post
Enquiring minds want to know...

It is hard to beat RIAs in price/performance for 1911s.
I am no 1911 expert and I have only owned one RIA 1911 in my life and it did fine. I have heard way more positives about them then negatives so they seem about the best value to me. The idea of value changes for some people who might have more disposable income or really love 1911s.
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Old 09-28-2014, 07:36 PM   #17
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Find a West German P220 made in the mid 90's. You should be able to find one in very good condition for about $500 and ~$700 for one in excellent condition.

I honestly like them just as much if not better than my $1800 DW Valor plus they are much lighter for carry.

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Old 09-28-2014, 09:35 PM   #18
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The P220 looks good. I honestly thought that more people would be all over extended capacity of the P227 ?
I missed the SAR K2, thanks for pointing that one out!
AKpastor I didn't forget the Para, not sure if it's for me is all. I did consider the USP .45 but it's HUGE in full size trim, I'd look at the compact but really more than I want to spend at over a grand+.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:38 PM   #19
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The P227 sounds nice but compared to the P220..well, it's just fat. Part of the reason that 1911's and the P220's feel so nice is the single stack magwell.

Also the new US based sigs just don't have the craftsmanship of the older German guns.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unicratt View Post
Find a West German P220 made in the mid 90's. You should be able to find one in very good condition for about $500 and ~$700 for one in excellent condition.

I honestly like them just as much if not better than my $1800 DW Valor plus they are much lighter for carry.

Nice ! Where do you find these, on GB?
I did look and found a P220 combat for about $800 new, the frames of the combat are made in Germany. Any feedback on these?
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:56 PM   #21
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Nice ! Where do you find these, on GB?
I did look and found a P220 combat for about $800 new, the frames of the combat are made in Germany. Any feedback on these?
One I found locally and another on GB. The older German guns use a stamped carbon steel slide instead of a machined stainless slide on the american made guns. The early to mid '90's guns have some upgrades over the older ones.


This write up from sig talk explains it pretty well.
Quote:
The gun you are referring to actually have not folded but "stamped" carbon steel slides and were 100% made in Germany. They are considered to be "true SiG's" by purists like me. This is the same manufacturing technology the Germans used in production of the MP 40, MG 42, MP 44 in WW2 and beyond with the HK series of assault rifles/semi auto rifles etc.

The Stamped carbon steel slides are lighter than their machined stainless steel (from a solid billet) American cousins made here in the US. The US production in solid stainless steel was necessitated by increased pressures and stresses associated with the .40 S&W and .357 SiG calibers that were added to compete primarily here in the US market in the early 2000's.

In addition to appealing to purists for being "Real SiG's" based on origin, there is the noticeable difference in balance. When SiG designed the "P series" of pistols, their ergonomics were designed around the balance characteristics of the stamped slide/alloy frames of the time. Many feel that the increased weight of the solid milled American slides and resultant subtle changes in balance/handling make the handling of the original stamped slide guns superior as well.

I own fifteen SiG's now all but two acquired since the beginning of the year. I have owned a German made stamped carbon steel SiG's for 15 plus years... a SiG P220 in .45 and a SiG P226 9 mm. Both have operated flawlessly for many thousands of rounds over the years.. not one stoppage or malfunction. That is the kind of old world "German reliability and workmanship" that put SiG on the map as a weapons manufacturer. As SiG has grown with its American manufacturing in Exeter, NH and the numbers and models of SiG's in the market place has increased exothermally, the number, of quality control complaints have increased as well.. greatly increased over the German only manufacturing days. It is because of poorer QC or just a natural function of the greater number of guns with the same % of problems? I don't know, however, I prefer the German made models and have collected examples with MADE IN WGERMANY and the later ( after reunification) MADE IN GERMANY guns. Many SiG enthusiasts feel that the early to mid 1990's represent the zenith in SiG "P series" pistol quality.
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Old 09-30-2014, 04:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Ak-47 View Post
I am no 1911 expert and I have only owned one RIA 1911 in my life and it did fine. I have heard way more positives about them then negatives so they seem about the best value to me. The idea of value changes for some people who might have more disposable income or really love 1911s.
Oh, I have Colts, but it got to the point where I didn't want to risk parts breakage in regular use and they became safety deposit box queens, hence the RIAs, they are for shootin'.
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Old 10-01-2014, 10:03 PM   #23
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Excellent value; I have a Gov't model, and it is a good sidearm.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/SA-GI-45.aspx
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Old 10-01-2014, 11:03 PM   #24
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I have a S&W 1911PD and love it,i would recommend it to anyone looking for a .45 Also on the cheaper end the RIA and some of the other similar 1911's are very good guns,they just aren't as detailed but are very durable/well made.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:52 AM   #25
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Sorry, misread that you were on a "budget" and not that you had a real one. Although a $400 handgun with $100 in upgrades can often out-perform a more expensive gun. Or, not.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:12 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Sorry, misread that you were on a "budget" and not that you had a real one. Although a $400 handgun with $100 in upgrades can often out-perform a more expensive gun. Or, not.
I wouldn't call it a budget per say but I think the 7-800 range will get you a lot of handgun, anymore and your getting a lot of fluff that really isn't needed but maybe wanted?

The question came up when I found a new Springfield Range Officer for $725 at the LGS, I was going to just buy it "BUT" I started looking at other offerings in that price range. I don't want to spend a $1000 on every handgun I look at.
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:26 PM   #27
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Remington is currently doing a $75 rebate on all their 1911's.

For example the 1911 R1 Enhanced is $699 from CDNN + rebate gets it down to $625. Smoking deal in my book.



Or $475 final price for this puppy.

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Old 10-02-2014, 09:39 PM   #28
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I picked up a Para Ordnance Expert at an LGS on sale for $529 with a $100 rebate in the spring. Rebate is still good til end of year http://para-usa.com/2013/support/pro...nd-rebates.php

I ended up with an American made 1911 with lifetime warranty, shoots a little low with my favorite 200 grain SWC lead reloads.

Took about 8 weeks to get the rebate check for $100.

Gun is capable of 2 inch groups at 25 yrds . Did she have any problems ? Sure... mag release was gritty as fuck, had to file and smooth. Trigger has take up and play but crisp let off, slide is moderately tight, but has enough looseness to function flawlessly. She is not mag picky. I have $7 and $40 45 acp mags...more than I can carry in a range bag !

I bought the gun with intentions to run the hell out of it and find something wrong with it...

It ain't no Les Baer...but the kid likes to work....and work hard she does

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Old 10-02-2014, 11:01 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bulldozer1 View Post
I've always gone for the highest quality I was able to afford in what I wanted. I believe I bought my Commander in the late Seventies. My second nice pistol. Still a nice pistol 35 or more years later. All the reviews I have seen on the RIA 1911 have been good. I've just got a thing for Colts. Nothing else like them to me. $820 for a new Colt is pretty darn good.

^^^^^this!
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Old 10-03-2014, 02:31 AM   #30
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P227 tacops comes with 4 extended 14 rd magazines. theres a "rumor" about 10mm P220 coming.
P227 is high on my list! it fits the hand almost like a 226, but in .45
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Old 10-03-2014, 05:51 AM   #31
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I vote for the Ruger SR1911
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Old 10-03-2014, 08:05 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by bulldozer1 View Post
I've always gone for the highest quality I was able to afford in what I wanted. I believe I bought my Commander in the late Seventies. My second nice pistol. Still a nice pistol 35 or more years later. All the reviews I have seen on the RIA 1911 have been good. I've just got a thing for Colts. Nothing else like them to me. $820 for a new Colt is pretty darn good.

That is a nice Colt, I checked what else they had and your gun is the best deal they have.
I found a lgs that has a Colt stainless steel commander NIB for $840, I think I found what I'm looking for
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:44 PM   #33
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Ok, I have more questions about a 1911 in general.
Does anyone have a model with the frame bobbed at the corner ?
Do you like it, and does it handle differently than a regular frame?
I'm strongly considering a Dan Wesson Vbob, commander size .45. I held a Kimber with the Bob treatment and it felt good but I'm unsure about recoil effects in the hand.
I did look at the Colt commander and was disappointed to say the least, it had more rattles than nursery and the safety was sloppy, I compared it to a Springer Range Officer and it was night and day! So no Colt for me, I guess I'm spending some real coin now.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:56 PM   #34
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Ok, I have more questions about a 1911 in general.
Does anyone have a model with the frame bobbed at the corner ?
Do you like it, and does it handle differently than a regular frame?
Yes, the Smith & Wesson SW 1911 SC:

It doesn't handle differently so much as carries differently ( the modification is to decrease the printability )


ETA: When the frame is bobbed like that, it's called a "bobtail".

Last edited by nalioth; 10-24-2014 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Added info
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:29 PM   #35
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Yes, the Smith & Wesson SW 1911 SC:

It doesn't handle differently so much as carries differently ( the modification is to decrease the printability )


ETA: When the frame is bobbed like that, it's called a "bobtail".
Ok that helps very much. I was worried the the recoil would act differently in the hand and affecting shoot ability . Didn't want to buy a strict carry piece only.
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