Up to 60% Off Daily Deal Products. Palmetto State Armory

Go Back   The AK Files Forums > Rifle Forums > General Rifle Discussion

Notices

View Poll Results: So which will it be?
AK variant 21 10.19%
Shotgun 56 27.18%
Auto pistol 75 36.41%
Revolver 7 3.40%
AR variant 26 12.62%
Bullpup 2 0.97%
Battle rifle 3 1.46%
Scar 1 0.49%
PCC 9 4.37%
Other 6 2.91%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-22-2019, 11:18 PM   #141
csi-tech
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 168728
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Columbia Tennessee (RED state!)
Posts: 2,359
Default

I love a shotgun for home defense. It certainly is not for everyone though. They are a bit unwieldy and difficult for the uninitiated to reload effectively. I started with a Remington Wingmaster as my only patrol long gun option in the late eighties so it is second nature to me. I went through Metro Nashville SWAT basic with a Scattergun technologies modified 870 and have loved a shotgun ever since.
__________________
Alcohol, Tobacco and firearms should be a convenience store, Not a government agency.
csi-tech is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 11:44 PM   #142
Sigiloso
Curio & Relic
 
Sigiloso's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 185454
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: In the Back of Your Mind
Posts: 19,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PORTER View Post
Like every dam scenario on the AK Files lately is that there is no perfect firearm/caliber for every situation. What works for one doesn't for the other, bottom line having some sort of firearm and a plan is key. Have nothing close to you in the event the bump in the night scenario happens and you can become a statistic.
I agree there is no perfect arm for all situations, but with its flexibility ammo wise, and ease of use, a 12 gauge shotgun comes closest to being the "Swiss army knife" of firearms,
__________________
"Socialism will succeed only to the degree that government is able to achieve oppression"-
Erich Mielke, Head Of East German Ministry for State Security(STASI)

"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU

sinestram delenda est
Sigiloso is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2019, 11:45 PM   #143
coolsolid
Member
 
coolsolid's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 161316
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 316
Default

I do agree that the shotgun is a highly effective choice for HD.
SXS shotty and a 32hr revolver is totally acceptable for defense.
__________________
"Donít beg for things, do it yourself or else you wonít get anything." - Adroc Thurston

Safety First My Friends ! - Mayor Fuglycool
coolsolid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 12:14 AM   #144
Steve_In_29
Semper Fi
 
AKaholic #: 183727
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: 29 Palms, CA/St John's, AZ
Posts: 4,755
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
Can miss with an AR, but not a shotgun???
Please show me where I said you couldn't miss with a shotgun.

I just said the 9 (or more) 00Buck pellets give you a better chance of a one shot incapacitation.
Steve_In_29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 12:15 AM   #145
PORTER
Been there done that.
 
AKaholic #: 184098
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Bremerton Wa
Posts: 1,684
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post
I agree there is no perfect arm for all situations, but with its flexibility ammo wise, and ease of use, a 12 gauge shotgun comes closest to being the "Swiss army knife" of firearms,
I will agree with you, in my opinion the shotgun gives you the greatest possibility of hitting the bad guy in the confines of your house. Especially at night when low light or pure darkness could come into play, it gives you the advantage with a larger pattern vs a bullet. But to each their own, it's good to have choices.
__________________
It is better to prepare and never have to use than not to prepare at all.
PORTER is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 12:37 AM   #146
fly
Curio & Relic
Gold Contributor
 
fly's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 157672
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Under Fire in Kentucky..
Posts: 5,353
Default

Not Listed !
__________________
*

********************************************
**LWRCI M6 SPR Limited Edition 1 of 200 Collector**
www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377301
********************************************
**LWRC DI Barrel / Colt Upper receiver **PART OUT**
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...62#post5167262
********************************************
*NEW IN BOX Colt LE6920*
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...50#post5170550
===============================
fly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 09:10 AM   #147
seabass47
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 197196
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning Hi Power View Post
No auto loading shotgun will be as reliable as an AK or AR. I know very little about shotguns, but I feel confident in that statement.

In a home defense situation, I want to be as deadly as possible. I am the deadliest with an AK or AR (I can shoot fast while controlling the gun). As for safety, an open tip or HP 5.56, and in 5.45, the Hornady, are not barrier penetrators by any means, relatively speaking. That’s why there’s such a thing as “barrier blind” loads in 5.56 meant for defense (generally referring to soft points). Open tips and hollow points in those calibers are very much “safe” rounds while being very effective. Not much info on 5.45 Hornady effectiveness, but the stopping power of the 77 grain Sierra Matchking is well established. I’m sure a 60 grain hollow point 5.45 going 2800 FPS isn’t going to be a slouch in stopping power either.

Shotguns are not as safe IMO because you’re throwing out multiple projectiles. And in the case of 00 and 000 buck, you have much more potential for too much penetration than certain 5.56 rounds. As a bonus, the rifle will penetrate Kevlar in the unlikely event the assailant is wearing it.

Handguns are not as safe as a carbine because you have less control over the weapon. The potential to miss is greater. Some choose them because they want to be able to have a free hand and that’s a valid point.

5.56 and 5.45 in hollow points or open tip coming out of a carbine are the most effective and safe rounds/guns for a HD situation IMHO.
You've really offended the tacticool prepper crowd around here with your anti-shotgun stance LOL.

It's 2019 guys, the pump shotgun for home defense has simply been outdated. That's not to say they aren't still effective or that some here don't still have one as their "go-to," but come on, to say that you can't do better than a pump action shotgun for home defense is just being stubborn to stand out IMO.

Now an SBR'd Saiga or Vepr 12g would be a different story...
seabass47 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 09:19 AM   #148
seabass47
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 197196
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 932
Default

I believe the original intention of this thread was for everyone to vote and share what works best for them.

I would be doing my wife a great disservice by taking some of the advice here and forcing her to use a pump shotgun for home defense as I believe with multiple attackers, it would probably lead to an unfavorable outcome for her(now queue the cherry-picked story of the mom who shot 3 intruders with a pump action...)

Same reason I got her a semi-auto handgun for CCW instead of a wheel gun. There is no way I could see that having more rounds available could be a bad thing. I'm not here to argue the brute reliability of pump shotguns, wheel guns, etc., but that anyone using one of those for personal or home defense is probably in the minority at this point, and probably for valid reasons.
seabass47 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 09:33 AM   #149
def90
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 154917
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 6,924
Default

Shotgun is great until an intruder has one of your family members in a choke hold.

def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 11:58 AM   #150
Trvrswsr1234
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 193880
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Levittown Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by def90 View Post
Shotgun is great until an intruder has one of your family members in a choke hold.

We have already heard from Mr.I can pound dudes all day that video is on the last page

If I remember correctly he used bird shot for his hostage test ...... with my gun (18" improved cylinder) at the distances possible in my home in my own shooting I can make that shot safely though I will concede that my other HD gun (AR15) would have a slight advantage in that one particular scenario
Trvrswsr1234 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 12:44 PM   #151
burninglegs
Where We Go One We Go All
 
burninglegs's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183372
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mishigamaa
Posts: 16,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by def90 View Post
Shotgun is great until an intruder has one of your family members in a choke hold.

Why are you reposting stuff already posted in post #115? Let me guess, you didn't read the whole thread and are the type that only reads the most recent page of posts in a long thread?
__________________
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson
burninglegs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 12:48 PM   #152
lostintejas
Veteran Member
 
lostintejas's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183194
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Almost East Texas
Posts: 1,035
Default

A cell phone and 911. You will only have about 30 to 45 minutes to vacate.
__________________
We must never forget that freedom is never free. Freedom is the most costly thing in the world. Freedom is never paid in lump sum. Installments come due in every generation. All any of us can do is offer the generations that follow a chance for freedom.
President Ronald W, Reagan
lostintejas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 01:22 PM   #153
Thunderhorse
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 172770
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: A Free State
Posts: 2,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trvrswsr1234 View Post
We have already heard from Mr.I can pound dudes all day that video is on the last page

If I remember correctly he used bird shot for his hostage test ...... with my gun (18" improved cylinder) at the distances possible in my home in my own shooting I can make that shot safely though I will concede that my other HD gun (AR15) would have a slight advantage in that one particular scenario
Did someone teach him about slugs yet?
Thunderhorse is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 01:42 PM   #154
RMiller
BFH or Bust.
Contributor
 
RMiller's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170327
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Please show me where I said you couldn't miss with a shotgun.

I just said the 9 (or more) 00Buck pellets give you a better chance of a one shot incapacitation.
You insinuated it, or that's the way I took it.

I didn't mean to out words in your mouth.

Also as sboone and I pointed out, you can't make broad generalizations about shotguns with different barrels, brands, ammo, etc. They can vary considerably and every shotgun should be patterned.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lostintejas View Post
A cell phone and 911. You will only have about 30 to 45 minutes to vacate.
Don't forget your rape whistle.
__________________
Is it just me, or are the roots a little thirsty?

Just because you have a bunch of "stuff", doesn't mean you're prepared.
RMiller is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 04:45 PM   #155
Browning Hi Power
Veteran Member
 
Browning Hi Power's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 191931
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Have you had to shoot people when the adrenaline is pumping and they have the capability to return fire? Right after being awoken from sleep?

Quite a bit different then hitting steel at a 3-gun match and the consequences of missing that "chest shot" are much greater.
Your insinuation is that you're more likely to get a hit with the shotgun. I disagree (unless you have a wide patterning load, in which case risk to family members is a factor), and a shotgun still has to be aimed to be effective. A shotgun is also less maneuverable than a carbine and a miss will take longer to recover from. And if they have the capability to return fire, I MUCH prefer a high capacity rifle than a shotgun (especially a pump).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
You fire off a round at bad guy 1 and in your haste to transition to bad guy 2 you don't realize you missed (or maybe jerked it and hit him in the shoulder) and are now exposed to bad guy 1's return fire.
Which can also happen with a shotgun, in which case the recoil is going to take longer to recover from. At close range, it has to be aimed, just like a rifle has to be aimed. The downside is it's less maneuverable. An 18" shotgun is significantly less maneuverable than a pinned 14.5" AR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Plus a single chest shot is NOT necessarily going to reliably end the threat from bad guy 1, especially if they are on drugs.
Or if you're using a shotgun and they're wearing kevlar. Yes, it's unlikely, but it can happen. Or you can end up short stroking (if pump-action), then it's disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
This is one of the reasons the .45ACP came into existence. Where the US Military was fighting the drugged up Moros in the Philippines who were known to take a fatal wound to the chest yet their brain didn't shut down until after they had got in a hack or two with their bolos.
Yep, and a 77 grain 5.56 SMK is a devastating round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
9 (or more) pellets of 00 Buck increases the chance of a single shot incapacitation.
Also increases the chance of stray pellets and over penetration.
Browning Hi Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 04:54 PM   #156
Browning Hi Power
Veteran Member
 
Browning Hi Power's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 191931
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 1,745
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Yet the US Military would disagree with you as they have adopted semi-auto shotguns for use. As have many SWAT and other LEO units. All are people who are MUCH more likely to repeatedly encounter such life and death situations then you ever are.
Ok, and ask all those people who are much more likely to encounter said situation that if we they were limited to just themselves with one weapon (not a team of people with multiple varied weapons) which one they would choose. I'm sure they'd choose the weapon with low capacity, low precision, and zero ability to defeat kevlar.
Browning Hi Power is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 05:48 PM   #157
Sigiloso
Curio & Relic
 
Sigiloso's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 185454
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: In the Back of Your Mind
Posts: 19,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning Hi Power View Post
Ok, and ask all those people who are much more likely to encounter said situation that if we they were limited to just themselves with one weapon (not a team of people with multiple varied weapons) which one they would choose. I'm sure they'd choose the weapon with low capacity, low precision, and zero ability to defeat kevlar.
There are shotgun rounds that penetrate Kevlar, and even if you only had a slug, it really wouldn't matter much if it penetrated or not.

Capacity becomes less of an issue with a mag fed AK style shotgun, as does any recoil sensitivity you may have.

Precision? A shotgun with proper sights is as "precise" as a rifle with sutable ammo out to 100 yards, when used by a properly trained individual. Plenty of distance for any "self defense" situation.

What did I forget? Oh yeah, no one can completely predict the "situation" or scenario they may face. and while there may be certain other firearms that may prove more effective in a minority of particular situations, none cover all the bases like a shotgun.

For about any survival or self defense situation it is hard to beat, if you are limited to one firearm. The only area it is lacking in is offensive capability compared to a rifle, and self defense and survival are not offensively oriented.

Perhaps, as you said you did not shoot one much, you are just unfamiliar with their capability and flexibility.
__________________
"Socialism will succeed only to the degree that government is able to achieve oppression"-
Erich Mielke, Head Of East German Ministry for State Security(STASI)

"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU

sinestram delenda est
Sigiloso is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 08:24 PM   #158
cal50
Curio & Relic
 
cal50's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 2400
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,150
Default

Shotguns shoot like rifles at close range and if you trick the barrel out a tad ( like back boring and a set of chokes ) and use a good shell like Federal with flight control wads they throw a very good pattern outside your house range.

There is not many things on two or four legs that can take a direct hit and not go down at inside your home distance.



__________________
NRA Certified Pistol Instructor / RSO
cal50 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 10:02 PM   #159
Trvrswsr1234
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 193880
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Levittown Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Browning Hi Power View Post
Your insinuation is that you're more likely to get a hit with the shotgun. I disagree (unless you have a wide patterning load, in which case risk to family members is a factor), and a shotgun still has to be aimed to be effective. A shotgun is also less maneuverable than a carbine and a miss will take longer to recover from. And if they have the capability to return fire, I MUCH prefer a high capacity rifle than a shotgun (especially a pump).
.
I don't think you're more likely to get a hit with a shotgun but that it's more forgiving on exactly where you land your hit personally even though I do understand hiw much being throw directly from sleeping to a life or death scenario will effect our marksmanship abilities I think its generally unlikely that anyone who has been shooting for a long time and shoots regularly will miss somebody entirely especially with a long gun

This is an advantage of a shotgun provided you're using effective ammo like 00 or even a segmented slug I think that the difference between it and 5.56 will make itself apparent if you do slightly mess up that shot

Say for example you are charged by somebody and because of all the factors mentioned you pull the shot an instead of getting that nice heart shot you get him right under the collar bone or in his stomach ..... I would feel more confident that 12ga would stop an advancing threat in that particular situation

I hate to get to far into the weeds about particular situations here I feel that of we had real statistics of home defence situations in front of us we wouldn't find a single documented event where a home owner died because his 6+1 shotgun ran dry or because his AR wasn't powerful enough ..... both are top notch choices in my book thats why I use both
Trvrswsr1234 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2019, 10:06 PM   #160
oldschool69
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 181125
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lake City, Fl
Posts: 862
Default

last nights left over cardboard pizza from piggly wiggly...thin crust sharp enough to cut a mans throat if frisbied with enough velocity
oldschool69 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:01 AM   #161
Blind Guardian
Member
 
AKaholic #: 198983
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: N/A
Posts: 56
Default

357 smith with 158 gr HT semi-jacketed. i live in a densely populated area.
Blind Guardian is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:14 AM   #162
silvermane_1
((the wagons))anti-troll brigade CO
 
silvermane_1's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170966
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Burien, WA
Posts: 6,229
Default

I voted bullpup, bullpup any longarm cal., PCC bullpup and 12Ga bp shotties.
__________________
"Democans or Republicrats, just different sides of the same coin, it's time for a different coin." -Me
...times are gone for honest men and sometimes far to long for snakes... -RIP Chris Cornell
Happiness is a road, lined with the bones of those whom sold out America, for personal gain/profit. -Me
"Sic semper nova orbis terrae ordinatio collectarius"-Me

i'm a anti-zionist: http://www.antizionism.org
---------------------------------
BAN SIG 2018-19
silvermane_1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 05:21 AM   #163
Trvrswsr1234
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 193880
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Levittown Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silvermane_1 View Post
I voted bullpup, bullpup any longarm cal., PCC bullpup and 12Ga bp shotties.

When I made the list I thought their was going to be more love for bullpups ...... especially compared to a shorter barreled AR like I use a bullpup has alot of advantages and no real downside in HD
Trvrswsr1234 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:28 AM   #164
sboone
MAK Attacker
 
AKaholic #: 179556
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Wichita ks
Posts: 2,073
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trvrswsr1234 View Post
When I made the list I thought their was going to be more love for bullpups ...... especially compared to a shorter barreled AR like I use a bullpup has alot of advantages and no real downside in HD
I would 100% take my AUG over any SBR, 18" barrel on the same length of an SBR? Yes please. I used to have a VZ 58 pistol with an 8" barrel. It was a cute little thing but damn, I made sure it was the last gun I shot if I took it to the range. The fireball, concussion, noise, even outside was extremely disorienting for me, theres no doubt in my mind that it would've been 10x worse inside.
__________________
"If you pull hard enough, everything is a thong"
-Sun Tzu

Baby AK mags, not even full grown yet, get em here
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=361671

Quitters accept defeat. Winners use liquid nails.
sboone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM   #165
def90
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 154917
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 6,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burninglegs View Post
Why are you reposting stuff already posted in post #115? Let me guess, you didn't read the whole thread and are the type that only reads the most recent page of posts in a long thread?
Yeah I am... you must be one of the butt hurt shotgun deciples.
def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:51 AM   #166
def90
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 154917
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boulder, Co
Posts: 6,924
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Yet the US Military would disagree with you as they have adopted semi-auto shotguns for use. As have many SWAT and other LEO units. All are people who are MUCH more likely to repeatedly encounter such life and death situations then you ever are.
Yet most swat and leos have given up the shotgun for ARs these days..
def90 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM   #167
Aceshigh
Lord Dingus
 
Aceshigh's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 5008
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SCIF
Posts: 20,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Yet the US Military would disagree with you as they have adopted semi-auto shotguns for use.
As have many SWAT and other LEO units.
I've also seen Shotguns still in use by SWAT or entry teams, and / or military teams

I tend to agree with the incapacitation factor being much stronger, with the caveat being lessor capacity.
__________________


Quote:
Today we need a nation of minute men; citizens who are not only prepared to take up arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as a basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom. The cause of liberty, the cause of America, cannot succeed with any lesser effort. John F Kennedy 1961

Last edited by Aceshigh; Yesterday at 10:39 AM.
Aceshigh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM   #168
lastlaugh
Appalachian American
 
lastlaugh's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 177161
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Northern Mexico
Posts: 2,408
Default

https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...uns-and-walls/

The box of truth tests on pistol vs shotgun vs rifle

(Spoiler..... All three penetrated all 4 walls tested)
__________________
Originally Posted by Judge Learned Hand
I often wonder whether we do not rest our hopes too much upon constitutions, upon laws and upon courts... Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it.
lastlaugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 02:53 PM   #169
Sigiloso
Curio & Relic
 
Sigiloso's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 185454
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: In the Back of Your Mind
Posts: 19,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastlaugh View Post
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...uns-and-walls/

The box of truth tests on pistol vs shotgun vs rifle

(Spoiler..... All three penetrated all 4 walls tested)
Except the shotgun with birdshot did not penetrate all 4 walls, and in fact only one.

This is why I advocate birdshot for indoors in crowded areas where the need is to hold down colllateral damage from over penetration:

Quote:
We get a lot of questions about the effectiveness of Birdshot.

I shot a round of Remington #8 Dove Load.

It blew a big hole in the first wall.

But the shot did not even break into the second wall.

The only hole was from the shot cup.(with no damage at the back of the 2nd wall.)
Its going to blow a "big hole" in the first thing it hits, but it very likely won't leave the room, at least with any lethal effects on the opposite side..



And that is just a light load of #8s, go to #6s or #2s or BBs even with a heavier load, if you want to adjust the effect for optimal hitting power and prevention of over penetration.

I'd feel perfectly OK with #8s dropping an intruder at inside room distances though, a heavy load of #6s being optimal.
__________________
"Socialism will succeed only to the degree that government is able to achieve oppression"-
Erich Mielke, Head Of East German Ministry for State Security(STASI)

"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU

sinestram delenda est

Last edited by Sigiloso; Yesterday at 02:59 PM.
Sigiloso is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM   #170
Trvrswsr1234
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 193880
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Levittown Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lastlaugh View Post
https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box...uns-and-walls/

The box of truth tests on pistol vs shotgun vs rifle

(Spoiler..... All three penetrated all 4 walls tested)
NO WAY!!! you meen to tell me the material that can't stop the fists of emo 12 year olds couldn't stop any projectiles that are know to be lethal!!! hahah
Trvrswsr1234 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 04:19 PM   #171
Thunderhorse
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 172770
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: A Free State
Posts: 2,770
Default

Shotguns are definitely used by military still, try hitting a moving target with a shotgun and a rifle and let us know which worked better. They also have less lethal capability since shotguns are probably the most flexible type of firearm in terms of ammunition type.

Choosing something because it does or doesnt penetrate drywall is stupid
Thunderhorse is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 05:23 PM   #172
burninglegs
Where We Go One We Go All
 
burninglegs's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183372
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mishigamaa
Posts: 16,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_In_29 View Post
Yet the US Military would disagree with you as they have adopted semi-auto shotguns for use. As have many SWAT and other LEO units. All are people who are MUCH more likely to repeatedly encounter such life and death situations then you ever are.
That's more for ballistic breaching for entry. Only one team guy carries a semi-auto shotgun. The rest are using ARs.
__________________
"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." Thomas Jefferson
burninglegs is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 5 (2 members and 3 guests)
chrisk, PNorris
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles