Up to 60% Off Daily Deal Products. Palmetto State Armory
The Ultimate Gun Belt, US Made, Lifetime Warranty, Free Shipping. Shop Now.
Gorilla Ammo Free Shipping when you order 10 Boxes or more.
Shop all the current Lone Wolf closeouts here

Go Back   The AK Files Forums > Rifle Forums > AK-47s

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-11-2017, 10:30 AM   #1
Triathloncoach
Member
Bronze Contributor
 
AKaholic #: 186291
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Hotlanta, Georgia
Posts: 412
Default Real world Milled vs Stamped firing experience

Will the casual AK enthusiast notice a significant difference when firing a 107fr vs a SAM? Same trigger? And if yes, how so? I hear the descriptor smoother tossed about. What does that really mean? And any other commonly accepted apparent differences?

Thanks
Frank
__________________
Just hanging with my dogs
Triathloncoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 10:42 AM   #2
nalioth
Devil's Advocate & Moderator
 
nalioth's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 5678
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 42,526
Default

The milled AK weighs more than the stamped version.

More weight = less perceived recoil = "smoother"
nalioth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 11:11 AM   #3
Worm
Curio & Relic
 
Worm's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170245
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyhipockets View Post
Not that simple. Try the two and you'll understand. The two different receivers move and flex differently under recoil and return. Weight is one of the variables.

To paraphrase: stamped feels like junk alongside it's milled equivalent.
+1

Milled is a more solid machine all around. Watch some slow motion vids of milled and stamped AK's and watch the difference in how much the guns wobble around. It's night and day.

Weight is definitely not the only factor.
__________________
If something isn't broken, the government will fix it until it is.
Worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:22 PM   #4
juanmaryjon
Member
 
AKaholic #: 191988
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 299
Default

When comparing my vepr to my wasr it sounds a lot like the different perceived recoil between a stamped and milled.
The vepr feels solid and smooth the wasr feels all jumpy and springy..could it just be the difference in weight?
juanmaryjon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:25 PM   #5
Tom Servo
Senior Member
 
Tom Servo's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 179581
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 579
Default

THey feel the same to me. My arms get tired quicker after holding a milled gun up shooting.
Tom Servo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:27 PM   #6
Ramey
Member
 
Ramey's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 185980
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Alexandria Safe Zone, GA
Posts: 257
Default

Milled guns will bot have less perceived recoil, and smoother actions since the internal rails are milled and not welded/riveted parts. In my experience. Milled go “clunk” when fired and stamped guns go “clack”
Ramey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 12:30 PM   #7
Lingwendil
Now w/ High-Fructose ASSAULT Gluten
 
Lingwendil's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 177079
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Oakley, Ca.
Posts: 2,270
Default

Comparing an AKM to a milled rifle is a noticeable difference for sure, and is mainly due to perceived weight affecting felt recoil. Once you get into comparing RPK pattern receivers to milled the differences become much more negligible.

Grab a milled Yugo M70. Fire off a mag or two.

Grab a stamped (1.6mm) Yugo M70. Do the same.

I doubt the recoil will be noticeably different to you. The milled rifle may feel different, and cycle smoother by hand, but in operation the differences are negligible at best, unless you get into very minor accuracy comparisons, or get into optics related mounting to the receiver.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deplorable View Post
They don't exist.

Women are like parking spaces. All the good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped.
Lingwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 02:26 PM   #8
Sublimeon24s
- Tactical Operator -
Contributor
 
Sublimeon24s's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 157162
Join Date: May 2011
Location: bed with two bi girls
Posts: 6,756
Default

Milled is definitely smoother all around over stamped, even when your just running the action sitting in your house, which takes "perceived recoil" completely out of the equation
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jliu123 View Post
What can you say about?
Sublimeon24s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 03:03 PM   #9
slapshut
MAG WHORE
 
slapshut's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 165205
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: DIXIE
Posts: 2,870
Default

BAM vs bam
__________________
There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge....

Twilight Zone Season 1 (1959–60)
slapshut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 03:18 PM   #10
Laufer
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 188070
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Lakeland TN
Posts: 1,050
Default

An SKS (as most of you realize), being milled, also has a very solid feel when operating.

With a friend's milled Polytech (?) MAK 90, not only does it give you such an impression, but imagine the glassy-smooth, double-hook trigger.
Laufer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 07:45 PM   #11
Zemlyak
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 183159
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: North East
Posts: 1,706
Default

Sam7SF/Sam7UF - both as smooth as my Beretta 92 Brigadier in action 107 is OK as any stamped SLR Arsenals, I would worry more about painting on it.
__________________
Кто в армии служил, тот в цирке не смеется

Last edited by Zemlyak; 12-12-2017 at 07:43 PM.
Zemlyak is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 08:51 PM   #12
Chairman Meow
Member
 
Chairman Meow's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 175499
Join Date: May 2014
Location: City of Independence, PA
Posts: 279
Default

I describe a stamped AK as feeling "slappy" and "clackity" as compared to milled being like a well oiled typewriter.
Chairman Meow is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2017, 11:34 PM   #13
Neanderthal
Member
 
AKaholic #: 184703
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Twin Oaks, Oklahoma
Posts: 127
Default

I have an Arsenal SLR 107FR and a 1st year milled SA M-7 and there's quite a bit of difference in the two. The SA M-7 is a lot smoother and tighter.
Neanderthal is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 10:32 AM   #14
Lingwendil
Now w/ High-Fructose ASSAULT Gluten
 
Lingwendil's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 177079
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Oakley, Ca.
Posts: 2,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Meow View Post
I describe a stamped AK as feeling "slappy" and "clackity" as compared to milled being like a well oiled typewriter.
Very good way to put it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deplorable View Post
They don't exist.

Women are like parking spaces. All the good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped.
Lingwendil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 11:48 AM   #15
Hizzie
Veteran Member
 
Hizzie's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170989
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Meow View Post
I describe a stamped AK as feeling "slappy" and "clackity" as compared to milled being like a well oiled typewriter.
Good analogy. I run both. I like both.
__________________
NW Houston Shooters Group http://www.akfiles.com/forums/group.php?groupid=18
Hizzie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 12:48 PM   #16
dArK 47
SA93 Fan Club
Vendor
 
dArK 47's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 167665
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 2,771
Default

SKS has the dual pistons and gives a smoother recoil, more of an in-line push versus a kick.

Shooting my first SKS was a dream; Chinese milsurp, it was like I couldn't miss.

AK was different for sure.

Never sell the SKS short because of the "puny" ten round magazine. Same round plus usually a 20" barrel.

As what's his name says on Forged in Fire "It will keeeel".

Quickly on-topic, I'll take Milled all day. The "ponderous" extra weight is no worries for masculine arms.
dArK 47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 02:29 PM   #17
SuperTacOperator44
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 177348
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 4,012
Default

The double hook trigger in my SAM7sf is really nice. One of the only AKs I own that I didn't change out the trigger on. Better than any of the stamped Arsenal triggers.
__________________
Islam Delenda Est.
SuperTacOperator44 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 05:25 PM   #18
mishaco
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 190226
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 2,466
Default

Comparing the SAM7R to a SLR107, a few other differences besides their receivers....

SLR107 has a single hook trigger, usually the old cast things that Arsenal used from 2006-2015. The newer 107Rs do come with a better FIME branded FCG, but it is still a single hook and all 3 pieces are US made.
The SAM7 on the otherhand comes with a double hook trigger. It is an original forged Bulgarian part, partnered with a US hammer and disconnector. The trigger itself is wider and the DH gives it a smoother, more consistant pull. Also since it is forged, it is easier to polish up a bit.

The SLR has a standard wire recoil spring guide assembly; same as in most all aKMs and AK74s.
The SAM has a machined guide assembly, very similar to what was used in the original AK T3 and RPK.

The SLR has a standard 1.0mm stamped topcover with ribbing for strength.
The SAM has a thicker, heavier stamped topcover that is smooth. This is the style used on the AK T3, RPK, and AK74M/AK100 series.

The SLR has a standard AKM bolt carrier type with lightening cuts.
The SAM has a non-lightened carrier, similar to what was used in the AK T3 and some RPKS and some AKMs too.
mishaco is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 06:15 PM   #19
Worm
Curio & Relic
 
Worm's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170245
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dArK 47 View Post
SKS has the dual pistons and gives a smoother recoil, more of an in-line push versus a kick.

Shooting my first SKS was a dream; Chinese milsurp, it was like I couldn't miss.

AK was different for sure.

Never sell the SKS short because of the "puny" ten round magazine. Same round plus usually a 20" barrel.

As what's his name says on Forged in Fire "It will keeeel".

Quickly on-topic, I'll take Milled all day. The "ponderous" extra weight is no worries for masculine arms.
This. SKS's are an absolute dream to shoot compared to AK's, in my opinion. So smooth.
__________________
If something isn't broken, the government will fix it until it is.
Worm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 07:30 PM   #20
Oldsalt
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 194552
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 512
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Worm View Post
+1

Milled is a more solid machine all around. Watch some slow motion vids of milled and stamped AK's and watch the difference in how much the guns wobble around. It's night and day.

Weight is definitely not the only factor.
I agree, my milled SAM7 R only weighs roughly 1.6 ounces more than my N-PAP and they provide much different shooting experiences with the Arsenal being much smoother running and having recoil more reminiscent of an AR15.

I love the feel of shooting both and will be buying more AKM varients; I like the clackity clack.
Oldsalt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 08:20 PM   #21
Fade2Blk
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 176726
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Peaceful Country Livin'
Posts: 2,545
Default

Or as l like to say, “milled for show and stamped for go”
__________________
Evil Minds That Plot Destruction
Fade2Blk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2017, 08:30 PM   #22
SAIGA 5.45
King of the Apemen
 
SAIGA 5.45's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 174648
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 15,710
Default

I don't buy the Milled receiver making a difference in recoil except due to weight, shoot a VZ58 side by side with an AK an you will understand, VZ58's only being a 1/2 pound lighter than my Romy G build definitely have more muzzle jump and recoil as compared to the AK, that 1/2 pound in a stamped gun vs. a milled weapon makes all the difference in the world in feel, not the receiver, otherwise the VZ wouldn't feel as harsh to shoot as it is.
__________________
I should be back in Jacksonville, putting my spicy man meat into a mother/daughter sandwich, that's what I want- Ashley J. Williams


The next Miss America will be David Hogg- Owen Benjamin.
SAIGA 5.45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 12:49 PM   #23
Sublimeon24s
- Tactical Operator -
Contributor
 
Sublimeon24s's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 157162
Join Date: May 2011
Location: bed with two bi girls
Posts: 6,756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyhipockets View Post
We could add enough tacticool crap to a wasr so that it was equal in weight to a Sam7 and the difference would still be obvious. Magnitude of perceived recoil might be equal between the two and they still feel different. Not sure why you're comparing the VZ 58, have some beers in you when you wrote that? 🍺
ding ding ding........winner
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jliu123 View Post
What can you say about?
Sublimeon24s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 01:17 PM   #24
lowprone
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 3254
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Black Hills, S.D.
Posts: 2,704
Default

The Yugo M70 receiver is 1.5mm thick, not 1.6mm.
lowprone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 06:11 PM   #25
Orpheus
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 177936
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 1,862
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIGA 5.45 View Post
I don't buy the Milled receiver making a difference in recoil except due to weight, shoot a VZ58 side by side with an AK an you will understand, VZ58's only being a 1/2 pound lighter than my Romy G build definitely have more muzzle jump and recoil as compared to the AK, that 1/2 pound in a stamped gun vs. a milled weapon makes all the difference in the world in feel, not the receiver, otherwise the VZ wouldn't feel as harsh to shoot as it is.
The shitty stock furniture on vz58s has a lot to do with that. Changing out the stock for something inline and putting a handguard that you can actually grip rather than just hold up goes a very long way
Orpheus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 06:45 PM   #26
Alias
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 172406
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,407
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
The milled AK weighs more than the stamped version.

More weight = less perceived recoil = "smoother"
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chairman Meow View Post
I describe a stamped AK as feeling "slappy" and "clackity" as compared to milled being like a well oiled typewriter.
Yep.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn1p3r_1 View Post
Who needs Zastava or Cugir AK's when there is plenty of RAS47's.
Alias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 07:14 PM   #27
1biggun
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 6541
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,214
Default

I don't feel the milled is smoother

It has a differant sound as it cycles.
The differance in weight is the major reason IMO guys perceive less recoil.
I don't recall the exact differance but it dosent take much to add up.

The stocks are mounted differantly and that may play a factor in how the feel.
A milled yugo also has a heavier barrel than a AKM so the harmonics may feel differantly.

Mostly I thinks it's guys bragging up the fact they have a milled rifle and how great it is LOL.

I wish I had a few more milled rifles.
1biggun is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 07:46 PM   #28
ninjamateo
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 170268
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 5,817
Default

A good muzzle brake negates all this lol
ninjamateo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 07:59 PM   #29
bravo lima
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 187837
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: blueridge mountains
Posts: 698
Default

Milled is smoother.
bravo lima is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 08:19 PM   #30
rbox1064
Rammer Jammer
Contributor
 
AKaholic #: 173428
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tuscumbia, Al
Posts: 3,206
Default

Milled is much quieter, smoother and recoils less. If you ever shoot a WASR and Milled at the same time with same ammo, then you'll understand. One is like a 1975 Pinto rattling down a gravel road and the other is like a Lexus on a newly paved highway.
rbox1064 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 09:21 PM   #31
Oldsalt
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 194552
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Wellington, Florida
Posts: 512
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbox1064 View Post
Milled is much quieter, smoother and recoils less. If you ever shoot a WASR and Milled at the same time with same ammo, then you'll understand. One is like a 1975 Pinto rattling down a gravel road and the other is like a Lexus on a newly paved highway.
Excellent analogy.

Milling the rails and locking lugs into a forged receiver is a significantly more accurate process than creating a functional riveted receiver with trunions.

Tolerance stacking along with some misalignment and variation, is a unavoidable when a receiver is pieced together by bending sheet steel, adding operating rails and trunions, and then riveting the entire assembly together.

Milling the receiver provides for a much stiffer overall assembly and a significantly smoother operating rifle with far less variation between individual units.

Last edited by Oldsalt; 12-13-2017 at 09:28 PM.
Oldsalt is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 09:22 PM   #32
Sublimeon24s
- Tactical Operator -
Contributor
 
Sublimeon24s's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 157162
Join Date: May 2011
Location: bed with two bi girls
Posts: 6,756
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjamateo View Post
A good muzzle brake negates all this lol
recoil yes.........stamped with the same brake still wont have the ball bearing smoothness of a good milled that just makes the overall experience gi give you a hard on
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jliu123 View Post
What can you say about?
Sublimeon24s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 09:34 PM   #33
SAIGA 5.45
King of the Apemen
 
SAIGA 5.45's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 174648
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 15,710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyhipockets View Post
We could add enough tacticool crap to a wasr so that it was equal in weight to a Sam7 and the difference would still be obvious. Magnitude of perceived recoil might be equal between the two and they still feel different. Not sure why you're comparing the VZ 58, have some beers in you when you wrote that? ��
Bullshit, because if the VZ58's milled receiver made a difference then 1/2 pound wouldn't make that much a difference on recoil. It's simply the weight an a little less vibration but otherwise a milled receiver offers no recoil reduction over a similarly weighted rifle.


I know the concept was bit far above your head, some beers actually may have made it understandable for you.


The milled receiver recoil reduction theory holds no water except in the extra weight it carries.
__________________
I should be back in Jacksonville, putting my spicy man meat into a mother/daughter sandwich, that's what I want- Ashley J. Williams


The next Miss America will be David Hogg- Owen Benjamin.
SAIGA 5.45 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 09:44 PM   #34
Richardmofo
Curio & Relic
 
Richardmofo's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 165722
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Cedar Park,TX
Posts: 2,399
Default

You wouldn’t notice a difference between the two. All these guys saying a milled is smoother are full of shit. You can trick your mind into thinking all sorts of things. The fact is if someone blind folded you and shot one after another you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference. I own both milled and stamped. I prefer milled just because I like the idea of a milled receiver not because of some mythical smoothness.
__________________
Originally Posted by DeathRider
Cant do it now to my internet face then I say you are a coward.


Richardmofo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2017, 09:52 PM   #35
1biggun
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 6541
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,214
Default

If you think about it if the weights were identical and the stocks were identical a stamped rifle might actually have less felt recoil than a milled form the simple fact the stamped would flex more under recoil and not deliver as solid of a hit . No way in hell its going to add up to much .

I think the sound is very much different.

as far as ball bearing smooth and all that all I can say is some of my stamped builds are pretty smooth and can run run a bit less gas port size as well just because there polished and the hammer and carrier is often re profiled . Of course the same can be done to a milled .

There is no reason a stamped receiver cant run as smooth unless its flexing is causing some sort of binding . Now if the average stamped is as smooth is a whole different matter and Id so no most stamped factory builds are rougher .

I think the sound is the biggest difference .

Many ARs cycle smooth but the pogo stick going off in your ear makes one think other wise .

the balance of the rifles is different and that's were the weight and were its at matters more . How the muzzle acts has a lot to do with perceived recoil .

I don't really have any light milled AKs to compare .

MY opinion is the action noise is less on a milled AK and its a different sound .
1biggun is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles