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Old 06-12-2018, 05:37 AM   #1
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Default Jeff Miller - MAR Pistol

Jeff just sent us this one.

WOW.

It's tough to say much else.

We're not certain the interest. Check out the pics and tell us what you think!
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:05 AM   #2
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The price. Wow!
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:49 AM   #3
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They sure are proud of them.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:11 AM   #4
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Talking that "pistol" shit again I see

Looks like the rear could be drilled and tapped for a pignose tube and brace(or stock) or unbolt pignose and bolt on ace. So yea, still just that easy.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIG*7.62 View Post
Talking that "pistol" shit again I see

Looks like the rear could be drilled and tapped for a pignose tube and brace(or stock) or unbolt pignose and bolt on ace. So yea, still just that easy.
Lol "readily convertible" is in the eye of the beholder isn't it
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:12 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by MIG*7.62 View Post
Talking that "pistol" shit again I see

Looks like the rear could be drilled and tapped for a pignose tube and brace(or stock) or unbolt pignose and bolt on ace. So yea, still just that easy.
So is it supposed to be "difficult"?
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
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.......We're not certain the interest.......tell us what you think!
........for that price, little to none. IMHO.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:56 PM   #8
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Cut the price by about $1600 and you can probably sell a few. For $3,600, no thanks.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:19 PM   #9
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For $3,600, no thanks.
I'd rather buy a preban.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:30 PM   #10
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That little bitch is sexy but she's not cheap.

But if tenngalil is making each one himself then production will be very low. Should be no problem selling the limited production.

It would be better if it already came with a folding brace. That way a guy wouldn't have to cut on an expensive JM original. Just sayin.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:26 AM   #11
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Buying pieces parts over time and sending them out to be assembled by Jeff probably has an analgesic effect on the recognized dollars one actually spends. The quoted price is indicative of the combined cost of all those pieces parts and the services Jeff is providing; welcome to sticker shock when you pay it all up front.
Its a custom made firearm..and its hardly for everyone.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:38 PM   #12
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In the OP, you asked for opinions.

Looks like you got them.

What you do with that information is entirely up to you.

You want to stock several, expect to be sitting on them for a very long time. Perhaps indefinitely.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis and Black View Post
So is it supposed to be "difficult"?
According to Jeff it should be "difficult. " "proper pistol"

But it "should" be easy to brace or sbr. As was said he's all up on that "readily convertible " nonsense.
I won't even list all the other pistols with tack welded shut stocks, under grip adapters, bolt ons, quick change barrels and so on.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis and Black View Post
Buying pieces parts over time and sending them out to be assembled by Jeff probably has an analgesic effect on the recognized dollars one actually spends. The quoted price is indicative of the combined cost of all those pieces parts and the services Jeff is providing; welcome to sticker shock when you pay it all up front.
Its a custom made firearm..and its hardly for everyone.
You asked for opinions and you got it.
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Old 06-13-2018, 03:42 PM   #15
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How is a firearm custom made when it is assembled from pieces? Custom assembled perhaps, however, not custom made.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:00 PM   #16
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Gorgeous! Jeff does amazing work.
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Old 06-13-2018, 04:18 PM   #17
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"And best of all, no NFA related time constraints."

Yea, no shit. But who wants a $4000 5.56 pistol? I don't give a shit what platform its on. Now, a "pistol" with a "proper" folding brace with option to sbr later is one thing.

And FYI...its YA'LL, least here in the south anyway
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:12 PM   #18
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i cannot think of a word that is stronger than proud when it comes to that price. good god. it would make you not want to shoot it.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:01 PM   #19
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Default IMI Original Micro Galil Parts Kit

Couldn't you SawCut demill those receivers, re-weld them. (or so buyers can easily re-weld them)
Then leave the rear alone so SBR with original stock is possible.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:12 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIG*7.62 View Post
Now, a "pistol" with a "proper" folding brace with option to sbr later is one thing
I agree as it should come with the folding brace. Curious, will it come with the factory stock?

IMO people will probably pay that price if they are impatient and completely assembled ready to ship. I have a Jeff Miller Micro build and completely love it. I would possibly pay that price if I wanted it NOW and not have to wait 6 months or whatever for it.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:27 PM   #21
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Very nice! Jeff builds some nice firearms.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:03 AM   #22
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Shoulda just made them exactly how you would and not put the stocks on. Not one good reason not to do that.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:37 AM   #23
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I would rather have it priced without you and your marketing upcharges involved. Jeff in TN is the gunsmith and assembler, Tortort makes the receivers in CA, you guys imported the MAR kits in NV. That's where your input should have ended. At this point, Lewis and Black is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, upcharging an already expensive firearm to ad your profit margin.

Its very evident how much your "marketing service" upcharges. A standard Tortort Galil receiver is $499. But the "Lewis and Black" edition on your website, MADE by Tortort is starts at $840. $340 upcharge for the same damn thing. So I have to assume your "special edition" MAR pistol is upcharged the same percentage.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:07 AM   #24
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Quote:
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......and not have to wait 6 months or whatever for it.
Er, uh......almost 18 months.
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:34 PM   #25
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Thank you to everyone for taking time to provide your input and opinions. The MAR Pistol has been removed from the website.
Sincerely,
Rodney L. Tucker
Lewis & Black, LLC
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNorris View Post
How is a firearm custom made when it is assembled from pieces? Custom assembled perhaps, however, not custom made.
Correction noted: thank you
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Old 06-14-2018, 01:38 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIG*7.62 View Post
"And best of all, no NFA related time constraints."

Yea, no shit. But who wants a $4000 5.56 pistol? I don't give a shit what platform its on. Now, a "pistol" with a "proper" folding brace with option to sbr later is one thing.

And FYI...its YA'LL, least here in the south anyway
Thank you for the spell check.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp. View Post
I would rather have it priced without you and your marketing upcharges involved. Jeff in TN is the gunsmith and assembler, Tortort makes the receivers in CA, you guys imported the MAR kits in NV. That's where your input should have ended. At this point, Lewis and Black is nothing more than a marketing gimmick, upcharging an already expensive firearm to ad your profit margin.

Its very evident how much your "marketing service" upcharges. A standard Tortort Galil receiver is $499. But the "Lewis and Black" edition on your website, MADE by Tortort is starts at $840. $340 upcharge for the same damn thing. So I have to assume your "special edition" MAR pistol is upcharged the same percentage.
They are in business to make money. So . . .
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:31 PM   #29
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Well I missed out on all the excitement here? Been working allot.

After reading a little here Id like some clarification.

Did Tort start selling Micro receivers for $499? I didnt know they were even availible outside of L&B. At $850 its allot but its a Micro receiver nonetheless and par on to the original.

The kits I got from L&B are everything you can want and some. Wasnt long ago you couldnt get jack crap anywhere so Im happy they got em.

Those 2 items are 2k, add a barrel, assembly and massaging then your well over 3k. IMO.

Im not here to defend any vendor but if someone has a problem with the price then either dont pay it or build it yourself.

I missed out on the pics and the actual price so Im just guessing too.

L&B, Jeff Miller and other vendors are in business to make money.

So if your a cheap Ass like me then buy the machines and tooling to do things yourselves or just bitch about prices.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:48 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullicrk View Post
Well I missed out on all the excitement here? Been working allot.

After reading a little here Id like some clarification.

Did Tort start selling Micro receivers for $499? I didnt know they were even availible outside of L&B. At $850 its allot but its a Micro receiver nonetheless and par on to the original.
A: No. Ben's MAR receiver production is contracted exclusively. Not that the ignoramus trolls who creep these forums would have made the effort to acquire the intellectual capital to even conceive such obvious and rudimentary business concepts. And the "multi-caliber" capabilities that Jeff designed into this receiver were not without additional costings.

The kits I got from L&B are everything you can want and some. Wasnt long ago you couldnt get jack crap anywhere so Im happy they got em.

Those 2 items are 2k, add a barrel, assembly and massaging then your well over 3k. IMO.
[I]A: The math alludes the same contingent.

Im not here to defend any vendor but if someone has a problem with the price then either dont pay it or build it yourself.

I missed out on the pics and the actual price so Im just guessing too.
A: Its all on the website.

L&B, Jeff Miller and other vendors are in business to make money.
A: Apparently an alien concept to those who've never owned a business

So if your a cheap Ass like me then buy the machines and tooling to do things yourselves or just bitch about prices.
A: I'm the consummate "cheap ass", yet I live to build stuff with my own hands damn the capital cost of all the requisite machinery, which will never be recovered and means all my toys cost significantly more than if I'd just purchased them as a finished product. Unfortunately, my neighbors think the contents of my shop reflects my prowess at fixing anything they've broken.

Arguably, even announcing this product in a forum is counterproductive. The customer for this is seeking immediate gratification and is willing to pay for that opportunity. This forum is better suited for those looking to share knowledge and crave the build-it-myself experience.

Me personally, I'd pay that price to have Jeff stand over my shoulder for several days and guide me through the entire process. Like a dude ranch where you pay the wranglers to let you push their cattle from watering how to watering hole, something I had to endure as one of those teenage wranglers to "build character", as my Father put it.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:07 PM   #31
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This is not how you make friends nor influence people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewis and Black View Post
A: I'm the consummate "cheap ass", yet I live to build stuff with my own hands damn the capital cost of all the requisite machinery, which will never be recovered and means all my toys cost significantly more than if I'd just purchased them as a finished product. Unfortunately, my neighbors think the contents of my shop reflects my prowess at fixing anything they've broken.

Arguably, even announcing this product in a forum is counterproductive. The customer for this is seeking immediate gratification and is willing to pay for that opportunity. This forum is better suited for those looking to share knowledge and crave the build-it-myself experience.

Me personally, I'd pay that price to have Jeff stand over my shoulder for several days and guide me through the entire process. Like a dude ranch where you pay the wranglers to let you push their cattle from watering how to watering hole, something I had to endure as one of those teenage wranglers to "build character", as my Father put it.
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Old 06-15-2018, 07:06 PM   #32
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Default Perceptions...

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This is not how you make friends nor influence people.
It was a compliment, but then that's why its called "taking offense" and not "giving offense"...none intended.
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:45 PM   #33
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Quote:
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It was a compliment, but then that's why its called "taking offense" and not "giving offense"...none intended.
Compliment taken and thanks

I didnt take any of anything said offensive....

I think it speaks highly of a business to socialize and give comments on forums even if someone gets butt hurt its ok by me.
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:05 PM   #34
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I mean I'm as cheap as the next guy (probably cheaper, actually lol), but you can't really say "you can get x, y and z here for this much, so it's wrong to ask even more for a built product made from w, x and y!". I sure as hell can't afford it, but I realize that exclusive items generally demand exclusive prices.

Prior to Lewis and Black bringing in the micro kits I hadn't seen but a few over the course of a few years, and they were very expensive from what I remember. Wasn't something I ever considered building due to price and not ever having given it much thought, but that memorial day sale pricing definitely had me looking hard at the left side charging kits...maybe next time lol.
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:14 PM   #35
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Only compliant with price I have is it was intentionally made more difficult to brace or sbr cause durrr
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