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Old 06-30-2008, 11:09 PM   #36
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Tantal parts looking good.....
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:22 PM   #37
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those are real nice parts.good and dark and even colored.great job mr.pro.LOL.when ya gonna put it together.um what do ya mean ya switched to prep and etch? did ya try something else first.
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:14 AM   #38
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Hey ding, Ya I tried the Loweís stuff first. Seal kerte ďbrand nameĒ clean-N-etch. It had the phosphoric acid in it so I thought it would be the same but I must have been a bad student. I must listen the master. LOL. Iím hoping to get it put together by the weekend. Why you want to let me shoot up all your booollits? LOL.

Oh ya. Butter wanted me to say hiÖ

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Old 07-01-2008, 01:47 AM   #39
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yup I got all three rounds ready to be gobbled up in that tantal,no holds on limits man.LOL..and howdy butter.
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Old 07-01-2008, 07:36 AM   #40
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Good job, Laddie !

I use Brownell's manganese phosphate, blast-park-degrease with acetone, 316 SS tanks, thermometers, anal anal anal.

My shit looks not one bit better than that, and a number of examples of my work not nearly so good.

One thousand WECSOG points. (you are eligible for another thousand if you drew blood in the process and can post pics as evidence)

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Old 07-01-2008, 10:18 AM   #41
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Twobit

Thanks for the complement. If you send me that axe of yours Iíd be more than happy to park it for you. LOL. Iím not sure what WECSOG is but if Iíve got pics Iíll post them, I can use all the points I can get.

Hope all is well for you.

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Old 07-01-2008, 11:50 AM   #42
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Wile
E
Coyote
School
Of
Gunsmiffen

I and many others from the Mother Board are graduates, Magnum Cum Loud

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Old 07-01-2008, 12:33 PM   #43
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man how do you rate a wecsog cum loud from the higher eschelon.us lowly airborne ground pounders do all the hard work and you officers get all the glory.ain't that the truth..
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Old 07-01-2008, 01:16 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ding
man how do you rate a wecsog cum loud from the higher eschelon.us lowly airborne ground pounders do all the hard work and you officers get all the glory.ain't that the truth..

Listen up, there Swee' Pea. I work for a living and I know who my parents are. Call me an officer again and I will unscrew your head and shit in your chest cavity.

Got it, maggot ?

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Old 07-01-2008, 03:51 PM   #45
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Quote:
I will unscrew your head and shit in your chest cavity.
yeah yeah,I bet ya say that to all the little maggots.. officers,,,psfft..
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Old 07-01-2008, 08:49 PM   #46
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the bolt carrier is the hardest part and it looks good
no leaching around the rivets
good coverage under the gas tube lever
no light spot from the front handguard retainer on the barrel

very nice
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:19 PM   #47
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how tight is barrel to trunnion fit after you're done? How long do you keep the parts in the tank?
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Old 07-01-2008, 09:44 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunplumber
the bolt carrier is the hardest part and it looks good
no leaching around the rivets
good coverage under the gas tube lever
no light spot from the front handguard retainer on the barrel

very nice
WOWÖ Donít take this wrong but you come off a little arrogant sometimes. So with that being said.

THANK YOU.

I know itís not right but Iím going to polish the bolt carrier. But thanks for the heads up on that. Iím sure Iíll do one soon.

Elk.
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:36 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chapaev
how tight is barrel to trunnion fit after you're done? How long do you keep the parts in the tank?
I just pressed the barrel in and it fit nice and snug. How long it takes? LOL. Some parts take 5 minuets and some take 25 minuets or somewhere in between. You drop the part in and little bubbles start coming up. When the bubble stop coming up itís all done. I must add that during this time you jiggle the parts and pull them out and look at the color and if you like it then itís done.

You should try itÖ If youíre scared about messing something up, grab your rustiest nasty pair of pliers blast them and park them. Get a feel for it. I was luck and ding showed me how to do it. Itís so easy itís not even funny. The best part is if youíre not happy with it give it a quick blast and throw it back in the tank.

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Old 07-01-2008, 10:46 PM   #50
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what media do you use in the blaster ?

thanks...

stuff looks really nice !!
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Old 07-01-2008, 11:02 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blondie
what media do you use in the blaster ?

thanks...

stuff looks really nice !!
70 Grit aluminum oxide. It was like $20.00 for 20 lb. at H/F.

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Old 07-01-2008, 11:50 PM   #52
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Well, I have done something similar. Perhaps my recepie was a little too stiff, or perhaps I boiled the trunnion (didn't even do the barrel) for a little too long (about 30 min, as best I can recall). But afterwards, I could push in the barrel by hand. All I am saying is - be very careful about acid treating (which is what parkerizing is) press-fit parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkaholic
I just pressed the barrel in and it fit nice and snug. How long it takes? LOL. Some parts take 5 minuets and some take 25 minuets or somewhere in between. You drop the part in and little bubbles start coming up. When the bubble stop coming up itís all done. I must add that during this time you jiggle the parts and pull them out and look at the color and if you like it then itís done.

You should try itÖ If youíre scared about messing something up, grab your rustiest nasty pair of pliers blast them and park them. Get a feel for it. I was luck and ding showed me how to do it. Itís so easy itís not even funny. The best part is if youíre not happy with it give it a quick blast and throw it back in the tank.

Elk..
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Old 07-02-2008, 12:04 AM   #53
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chapaev,maybe you had a loose fit before ya started parking,I don't know.but in all the parts I have done I have had no loose parts or loose barrel to trunion fit.everything pressed on good and tight.you might have had a little too strong a dose.it should not take more than 10-20 minutes at most.just check the parts for color after about 10 minutes in the solution,that should tell ya about how much longer it should be.don't go by fizzing,go by time and color.if unsure,take a part out and rinse off in water and then put some WD-40 on it.that will tell ya if the desired color ya want has been achieved
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Old 07-02-2008, 11:25 AM   #54
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that's pretty much what I did - I kept taking it out and looking at it. And it just kept getting blacker and blacker Naturally, I liked it, so I kept putting it back. I was under the impression that once the initial layer of steel gets etched away and recoated with a phosphate deposit the etching stops, but alas.

I don't think it was a loose fit, because all the holes I tapped for screws (screws 4 life!) also became loose. Not unusable, but you can wobble the screw slightly as you're tightening it. My impression is that polished/shiny/just machined surfaces get eaten away quicker than the others.

I think another mistake I made was - not premaking a zinc (or steel or manganese)/phosphoric acid concentrate. I added the zinc to a dilute solution of phosphoric and then was impatient and didn't make sure that it had all reacted. Also, didn't check the pH, which is supposed to be around 2.5 (got this from a patent reference). As they say, let that be a lesson to you all
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:16 PM   #55
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Man those finishes are super!

I have tried 3 commercial parkerizing solutions and I only like one. The stuff from AGI.

I park often, have a big tank, burner setup and figured I would give your guys technique a try. Just on the outstanding results.

I am having a hard time finding manganese dioxide. I looked for hours yesterday to no avail. I have everything else.

Any ideas on where to order online or if someone wants to sell some I'm rearing to buy.
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:37 PM   #56
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akDave,

You can order it through a place called Rovin Ceramics. Located near Detroit. Here's their catalog.
http://www.rovinceramics.com/pdf/Rov...%20reduced.pdf

Manganese Dioxide 325M is on page 10 and, if you want to substitute Iron Oxide for steel wool pads, it's on page 11. Not too expensive.

If you're interested in Zinc park, they have Zinc as well.
It's near my house so I just drive over and pic it up.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:37 PM   #57
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Thanks a million for that info CCKen. I will download the pdf and give it a shot!

I've been dying to do a home brew and looks like that is the last part.
Thanks again, Dave
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:52 PM   #58
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Very nice there CCKEN.

akDave, Iíve got some extra that I could ship to you in the morning. Iíll send you a Pm.

ElkÖ
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:18 PM   #59
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it looks better then some park jobs i have seen pro's do! i like how even looking you got it, but that must have taken all night. if that is -ding's reciepe -it sure is a good one!
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Old 07-12-2008, 07:28 PM   #60
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Instead of polishing, consider sandblasting it first, then beadblasting it with the finest bead you can get. Its a very complicated part to maintain an even polish on, unlike something like a 10/22 bolt which is essentially rectangular.

Here's a few Chicom guns with just a beadblasted carrier. A little pixelated, but you get the idea




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Old 07-12-2008, 08:20 PM   #61
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Those look great Mark.

I didnít polish it. It was painted black. All I did was wash it with brake clean and a tooth brush. The paint just ran off. Polished it a little with nothing but steel wool.

I really liked the look at this point. Itís not to shinny but broke it up some.

Thanks for the great tips you give us.

ElkÖ
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Old 07-27-2008, 12:49 AM   #62
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I tried the recipe and the parts look great.

Having a large tank still full of usable park soultion I made a 1/2 gallon.
I just put some rails in but it works just as good as most commercial
products I have bought.

I did not age it and used FL tap water (horrible).
Making only a half gallon and taking short cuts the results were super.
Once my current tanks soultion evaporates I'm going to run with the recipe posted in lieu of buying commercial.

The parts gassed for quite sometime. In the past it's usually 10-20 mins.
In this case I pulled the parts at about 35 mins while they were still gassing.
I was in a hurry and assume that it was the lack of aging that caused the long gassing. Could be wrong. If you know let us know.


From left to right.
Experimental part blasted with aluminum oxide, part parkerized with the recipe, part pre-dipped with Brownell's pre-dip soultion. Not a whole lot of difference with the pre-dip.

Big Thanks to Elkaholic for his help!
I have not figured out the savings yet but at $10+ a gallon for commercial concentrate stuff we are looking at huge savings with this formula and great results as well.

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Old 07-27-2008, 01:19 AM   #63
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AkdaveÖ

Those look great. Glad I could help.

The real credit here belongs to DING. Heís the one that figured it out and showed me how to do it. Ding is the mastermind of the home brew in my book.

Iím sure your going to see this Ding so thanks again.

ElkÖ
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Old 07-27-2008, 01:47 AM   #64
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For all who posted and participated a big thanks. Hopefully some of the new builders who want to up their game will try it. It's super cost effective and works!

I will get that liquid out Elk.

I've got some things to build this week and will drain the big tank and fill it with this soultion for a full blown shot.

I will have 2-4 builds to play with and post any useful feedback/pics.

Thanks again for the help my man
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:07 AM   #65
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OK, I've got the Manganese Dioxide and some iron filings on order from United Nuclear, and the Prep & Etch and distilled water already, so it will soon be time to give this a shot. One thing I did want to add was, on the MSDS sheet for the Manganese Dioxide (yes, I know, I'm a geek and actually read over that stuff) one of the cautions with it is "Reacts with hydrochloric acid to form corrosive chlorine gas". It didn't say anything about reacting with phosphoric acid, but ventilation is probably something to be aware of. Just FYI...

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/M0715.htm
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:23 AM   #66
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Quote:
Reacts with hydrochloric acid to form corrosive chlorine gas".
damn,wondered why my face melted off,now I know to use it outside.what year is it.
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Old 08-02-2008, 11:17 AM   #67
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acid + metal = salt + gas

Its from the hydrochloric acid - it looses a chlorine atom when the molecule binds with the manganese. I could have written out the equation from high school chemistry, but since I haven't used it in 25 years I've forgotten how.

For parent teacher night I mixed metal filings with HCL in a beaker and ran a hose into a bucket of soapy water. The reaction would lose a hydrogen atom which would get caught in the soap bubble. Touch the soap bubble to a bunson burner and you get a loud Kaboom that rattles the windows but leaves only soap as shrapnel. Most fun I'd had to that date.
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Old 08-02-2008, 11:18 AM   #68
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I know, I know, Ding... just thought I'd add it in there, just in case SOMEONE readin this doesn't stop to think about the need for good ventilation when doing this, or decides that one acid oughta work as good as any. Hey, ya never can tell. God knows I've done plenty of dumbassedness over the years myself, so I'm not meaning it as anything except trying to be helpful. All that said, I am looking forward to seeing how my parts turn out with this, too.
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:40 PM   #69
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A bit easier to come by is Drano (Sodium Hydroxide) and aluminum foil. Dissolve the drano in a bottle 'til no more dissolves, set the bottle in cold water (this gets HOT).

Add aluminum foil and in 5-10 minutes it'll start to gas off hydrogen. Bubble that through soapy water or whatever get out the bunsen burner.
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:35 PM   #70
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Quote:
A bit easier to come by is Drano (Sodium Hydroxide) and aluminum foil. Dissolve the drano in a bottle 'til no more dissolves, set the bottle in cold water (this gets HOT).

Add aluminum foil and in 5-10 minutes it'll start to gas off hydrogen. Bubble that through soapy water or whatever get out the bunsen burner.
hummm,smart guys,physst




howdy SJ..
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