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Old 04-11-2016, 11:12 PM   #421
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I finally started to rust blue a receiver for one of my Polish kits. I already riveted it before I decided to blue it so I definitely made it more difficult. The procedure and tools I came up with were from here and Sunspots posts on the other forum. The supplies were Laurel Mountaun Forge Barrel Brown/Rust blue and degreaser, Stainless steam pan, 0000 steel wool, stainless wire carding brush, tooth brushes, distilled water and a good breathing filter mask.
The reason I need the mask is because to get the chemical everywhere I decided to try applying it with a air brush.

I started by bead blasting the entire receiver which turned it light matte silver
[IMG][/IMG]
Then I air brushed a coat of Laurel Mountain on the entire receiver. After steaming up the bathroom I hung it in the shower and this is what it looked like after 20hours.
[IMG][/IMG]

Next it was put in a pan of boiling Distilled water for 20 minutes.
[IMG][/IMG][IMG][/IMG]

After boiling the receiver it was put in the oven for 20 minutes at 225 degrees to get rid of any moisture.
Then the fun part, removing the black oxide soot. First the easy areas with a damp paper towel. Then by using everything else to get in all the nooks a crannies.
After a half a hour of carding this is what the first cycle looked like
[IMG][/IMG]

I need to card it a little more and do a couple of more cycles then seal it with the Lamp black oil paint and BLO as described on page 2

I would like to thank Valmet for the excellent info on this thread

Last edited by Obstreperous; 01-03-2018 at 11:45 PM.
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Old 04-12-2016, 09:05 AM   #422
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Obstreperous

Looks great job well done and I will have to try the air brush on my next build !
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:10 AM   #423
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:49 PM   #424
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Obstreperoous, did you delete the rest of your photos? I can only view the first one.
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:37 PM   #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOLTTHROWER View Post
Obstreperoous, did you delete the rest of your photos? I can only view the first one.
I'm not sure what happened but I restored them.
Here is a pic after 6th cycle, I don't think it got any darker after 5th cycle. I tried the lamp black and BLO mix and after the second coat and bake it looked like crap so I removed it by acetone and rubbing hard. I think it did make it a little darker but not much after removal. I think I used to much paint and it needed to be thinned more, I am going to leave it as is.
The one rivet in the rear trunnion is a new rivet after I finished bluing that I used to install a optic rail.
[IMG][/IMG]

The second pic has a AK builder rail that I temporary put on after to see how close it matches.

Last edited by Obstreperous; 01-03-2018 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 06-04-2016, 06:14 PM   #426
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The trick with the BLO and Lampblack oil paint is you make it thin, coat the metal with it and let it rest a few hours and then WIPE IT OFF with a soft towel. The trick is you don't wipe it all off, you leave a very, very thin coat on it, then bake it.

See this thread, posts #39, 87, 88, 89.

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Old 09-01-2016, 03:26 PM   #427
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I am doing a type 56 build and wanting the receiver to match the barrel and folder components of the norico type 56 that are still in great condition Would this be the best method to achieve the finish of the chinese rifles?
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Old 09-03-2016, 02:03 PM   #428
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Hard to say if the finish will match exactly with the Chicom bluing, but quite possibly. I've had pretty good luck with this process (thanks to VALMET M76) !
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Old 09-18-2016, 11:19 AM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4refixr View Post
I am doing a type 56 build and wanting the receiver to match the barrel and folder components of the norico type 56 that are still in great condition Would this be the best method to achieve the finish of the chinese rifles?
The Chinese rifles are different. I am sure the Rust blue would not match. The Chinese rifles are not blasted and then blued. The are not polished and then blued. It is something in between. Looking close at one, you can see like sand marks. I have taken a Cross Buff and removed some light rust on the side of a Chinese top cover. I then used the Brownells paste type cold blue. I did it like 3 times and oiled it. It is a perfect match. The blueing on a Chinese rifle sucks from the factory. It scratches very easily. Ever notice how most of the Chinese rifle from the Vietnam era always seem to have most of the finish gone? I think this is because the Chinese blueing is done the very very cheapest way possible!
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Old 09-20-2016, 01:43 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajomatic View Post
The Chinese rifles are different. I am sure the Rust blue would not match. The Chinese rifles are not blasted and then blued. The are not polished and then blued. It is something in between. Looking close at one, you can see like sand marks. I have taken a Cross Buff and removed some light rust on the side of a Chinese top cover. I then used the Brownells paste type cold blue. I did it like 3 times and oiled it. It is a perfect match. The blueing on a Chinese rifle sucks from the factory. It scratches very easily. Ever notice how most of the Chinese rifle from the Vietnam era always seem to have most of the finish gone? I think this is because the Chinese blueing is done the very very cheapest way possible!
I have a PolyTech reweld that is a complete rifle now but has the finish removed and grinded where the weld was done. I was looking at doing this rust blue process to redo the receiver but if the Brownells paste type cold blue is a close match I'll use that. What is the specific product called? Any tips on using it?

On the other hand I might still try the Rust blue method. Can someone tell me if it will work if I'm only trying to do the receiver but the barrel is still attached to the receiver? (Barrel is already blued)

Last edited by MaxKrax; 09-20-2016 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:10 PM   #431
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You can definitely match your Chinese finish with rust blue, although sometimes rust blue takes on more of a graphite gray tone. Maybe it's the steel, maybe it has something to do with prep? Most Chinese parts have a grainy texture which can be achieved with light sanding.

A good condition Izzy TG and a fair condition Polish GB with a light media blast, followed by steel wool polish, 4 cycles of Brownell's rust blue, and a light polish with 0000 steel wool and oil. I didn't use the typical BLO burnish coat. Do to the high humidity here, I was able to get them to full red oxide in about 4-5 hours.

Interesting to note that I used standard tap water in an old paint pail over a propane burner in the shop. I changed the water every cycle but never cleaned the residue out of the pail. I also used a scrap piece of .063" aluminum coiled up on the bottom of the pail to keep the parts out of the direct heat. The aluminum turned all kinds of funky in the process.




Last edited by Boognish; 09-23-2016 at 11:17 PM.
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Old 10-08-2016, 09:19 PM   #432
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Old 10-10-2016, 10:49 PM   #433
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I'm in the process of rust bluing a Tortort Yugo receiver and M70AB kit. After the first cycle of rusting and boiling I get a good conversion from red oxide to black oxide. However, with subsequent rustings/boilings, I'm not having much luck getting the red oxide to convert into black oxide. When I remove the parts from boiling they still look like they did when I first put them in after the rusting process. I'm using distilled water for the boils and Brownells Classic rust blue. Is this normal or am I missing something here? After carding the receiver it looks good but it doesn't seem to be getting any darker.
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Old 11-27-2016, 03:34 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S5snake View Post
I'm in the process of rust bluing a Tortort Yugo receiver and M70AB kit. After the first cycle of rusting and boiling I get a good conversion from red oxide to black oxide. However, with subsequent rustings/boilings, I'm not having much luck getting the red oxide to convert into black oxide. When I remove the parts from boiling they still look like they did when I first put them in after the rusting process. I'm using distilled water for the boils and Brownells Classic rust blue. Is this normal or am I missing something here? After carding the receiver it looks good but it doesn't seem to be getting any darker.
More information is needed. Tell us about your surface prep procedure before blueing. How long did you let it rust for the first run? What was the humidity percentage in the environment in which the parts were allowed to let rust? Most lack of penetration comes from poor surface prep or low humidity levels during rusting.

Last edited by Metatron; 11-27-2016 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:07 PM   #435
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Can we chat a bit more about the carding process.

I have been using steel wool on the outside.

I feel like maybe I am removing too much as the receiver just keeps returning to the darkish grey bright finish. Will this technically get darker with more coats or after I soak with oil?

The inside I am using a hard tooth brush, that doesn't really do anything. What are you guys doing for the inside? That is a real bear. I think I read something about an attachment for a dremel. Does someone have more info on that?

In general are we trying to remove all of that velvety material that your finger sort of drags on?

I also tried old denim as Laurel Mountain recommends but holy crap I do not have that kind of time.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:45 PM   #436
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i use steel wool rolled up on some long hemostats for the inside. All you are doing is getting the majority of carbon off. Scrub too hard and you undo your work. I also lightly use a SS fine bristle double ended "tooth brush" in hard to get to areas (one end like tooth brush the other end narrow short row - like the kind with AR15 cleaning kits) only lightly around rivets and crevices.
even after 4 or 5 boil and cards it will be dark grey until oiled, let oil sit a while to soak in.
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Old 06-14-2017, 04:46 PM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgtcarroll View Post
Can we chat a bit more about the carding process.

I have been using steel wool on the outside.

I feel like maybe I am removing too much as the receiver just keeps returning to the darkish grey bright finish. Will this technically get darker with more coats or after I soak with oil?

The inside I am using a hard tooth brush, that doesn't really do anything. What are you guys doing for the inside? That is a real bear. I think I read something about an attachment for a dremel. Does someone have more info on that?

In general are we trying to remove all of that velvety material that your finger sort of drags on?

I also tried old denim as Laurel Mountain recommends but holy crap I do not have that kind of time.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Follow up on my own post...

I did move to a "Hard" toothbrush and that works great. The real key to getting the dark finish for my was soaking everything in used motor oil for 24hours. That did the trick.
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:40 PM   #438
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What's the preferred process to apply the "rust bluing?" On a virgin barrel and receiver, to get it blued before assy, or is it preferred apply the bluing after assy?

I've got an excellent condition Yugo kit that I'd like to keep the original finish on, yet the receiver and barrel are "in the white".

Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
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Old 02-26-2018, 03:03 PM   #439
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Bluing before assembly runs the risk of damaging the finish during assembly.

Bluing after assembly requires a larger pan.

No wrong way to do it really. I've rust blued an assembled receiver/populated barrel and avoided getting solution on the parts with original finish. It wasn't that hard and even if I get some on it would barely rust and you couldn't tell a difference after conversion.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:38 PM   #440
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I will do two cycles on parts loose then finish up assembled.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:48 PM   #441
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Just an update to this thread on what I have found to be helpful.

Always sandblast.

Make a cabinet to hang parts in with a metal pan in the bottom with a fish tank heater.
24hours cycles with no condensation runs.

Instead of boiling in destilled water. Steam the parts with normal tap water. I use a small stainless pot with two lengths of PVC pipe. Install a cap with some small holes drilled in it. One size to hang small parts in and one for barrels and barreled actions. 15min in the steam.

For carding all you need is a hard toothbrush and the orange hand cleaner and dish soap. Scrub with the hand cleaner until it no longer turns black. Then with finish with dish soap. I do this in a utility sink keeping things wet. Keeps the dust down. I’ve found this to not remove any of the blueing you want to remain.

Usually do 4-6 cycles.

At the end soak 24 hours in used motor oil. You will end up with a deep black finish with almost a parked feel.

Laurel mountain for the product.
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Old 03-24-2018, 08:37 PM   #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgtcarroll View Post
Just an update to this thread on what I have found to be helpful.

Always sandblast.

Make a cabinet to hang parts in with a metal pan in the bottom with a fish tank heater.
24hours cycles with no condensation runs.

Instead of boiling in destilled water. Steam the parts with normal tap water. I use a small stainless pot with two lengths of PVC pipe. Install a cap with some small holes drilled in it. One size to hang small parts in and one for barrels and barreled actions. 15min in the steam.

For carding all you need is a hard toothbrush and the orange hand cleaner and dish soap. Scrub with the hand cleaner until it no longer turns black. Then with finish with dish soap. I do this in a utility sink keeping things wet. Keeps the dust down. Iíve found this to not remove any of the blueing you want to remain.

Usually do 4-6 cycles.

At the end soak 24 hours in used motor oil. You will end up with a deep black finish with almost a parked feel.

Laurel mountain for the product.
What kind of orange hand soap? Also can you draw a diagram in MS paint or take a picture of your setup for steaming the parts instead of boiling? I'm not sure I quite follow along with what you're saying.

Also, if I rust blue my unfinished receiver, should I also rust the rest of my rifle that's already parked? or can I just put the whole thing in a tub of used motor oil?
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Old 03-24-2018, 09:30 PM   #443
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No waiting for the giant pan to start boiling or buying distilled water.

Fast orange hand cleaner.

If you want the whole rifle to match all components need to go down sandblasted bare metal.

If you do a whole action and barrel in the steam and plug the barrel with wood dowels don’t leave them in they will rust where they are installed.

Don’t really need to submerge the whole rifle in motor oil. I will just brush some on every once in a while.
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Old 03-31-2018, 08:37 PM   #444
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Is neutralizing required before sealing? I read through this thread and did not see anything regarding soaking in baking soda and water after the last carding. I have 2 different sets of instructions for Mark Lee's, one says neutralize, and the other says it does not have to be done if boiled in fresh water. Any thoughts from those that have done this process, I will be finishing up mine tomorrow.
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:54 AM   #445
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I do not using steam and soaking in oil. I didn’t when I was using water either but doesn’t mean I was doing it correctly.
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Old 04-09-2018, 08:35 AM   #446
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Old 04-23-2018, 08:40 PM   #447
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From left to right. All in first cycle.

1: Fresh out of the humidity cabinet
2: After steam conversion
3: After carding, will card more until Iím getting no more black off.
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:46 PM   #448
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My experience using steam is that I get a lot of water drops runs over the metal finish that are really hard to removed. Do you have the same problem?
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Old 04-23-2018, 09:48 PM   #449
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Get some but through out the process things seems to even out pretty good.
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Old 05-05-2018, 03:32 PM   #450
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Whoever suggested using an airbrush... I love you man!

This is the way to apply guys! Screw cotton balls and qtips.
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:38 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgtcarroll View Post
Whoever suggested using an airbrush... I love you man!

This is the way to apply guys! Screw cotton balls and qtips.
What kind of airbrush and rust blue are you using?
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:19 PM   #452
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Harbor freight airbrush with the small bottle underneath.

Been using Laurel Mountain but it’s so pricey.

Thinking about giving the Brownells solution a try.

Drawback to spraying is you will go through the liquid faster. Try not to let run either...just light mist.

Just a note guys you can really control the sheen produced with what you card with. Hard toothbrush will give you a black park type finish.
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Old 05-29-2018, 12:38 AM   #453
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Great and informative thread!!!

Can people in the know (Valmet, USGIgunsmith, others with experience), please comment on the technique described in this youtube video: https://youtu.be/X-CDOJF-TmY

Basically it's heating up the part, browning it with Brownells is Mark Lee's express brown to get the 'base coat', then re-heating and using the Oxpho blue paste to get the black color... seems straight forward, quick and easy, but, having been around long enough to know that somethings look easy but may be lacking... so I'm reaching out for experienced advice.

Looking to use this technique to blue a NODAK receiver.

Thanks in advance!

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Old 05-29-2018, 03:28 AM   #454
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Anyone know any gunsmiths on here we can send a rifle to to have this done?
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:11 PM   #455
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Anyone know any gunsmiths on here we can send a rifle to to have this done?
If you were closer I would.
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