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Old 08-01-2009, 08:52 AM   #1
ronin
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Default Parkerizing precipitate

Gents,

I used the park recipe that Ding and Elkaholic came up with and it worked great - I couldn't be happier with the results.

Three quick questions

1. Is there any reason I should keep the precipitate/sludge at the bottom of the tank or just filter it out and keep using the solution?

2. How can I tell the solution is getting old? Lack of bubbles?

3. When park solution gets old, do you dispose of all of it or just add more chemicals?

I spent all day parkerizing using my coleman stove and one of the tanks the fellow makes and sells on eBay (which is very well made I might add). I made up 10 gallons and about 6 hours later I had about 5 left so there was a lot of reduction.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:48 AM   #2
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1. Filter it out

2. Lack of bubbles, sure. Also, park starts looking weak.

3. Add more phosphoric acid if still good but weak, can also adjust manganese.

The loss is all water. Add more deionized water to make it back to 10 gallons.
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:14 AM   #3
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Thank you sjohnson. That makes sense.
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:34 AM   #4
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Thatís the ticket right there. I keep the tank at the same level by adding water while Iím parking.

Good God Ronin, 10 gallon tank? You going to park a tank. LOL. My tank is just over a gallon, it gets a little crowded.

We want Picís.


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Old 08-01-2009, 12:05 PM   #5
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Elkie, Lowes doesn't carry the little stainless mud pans so I dug around on the gun boards and this one fellow on eBay was recommended - kq9kx1. It's $99 + $15 S&H plus has a plug to make draining easier. His current listing is at:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PARKERIZING-TANK...d=p3286.c0.m14

Here's mine warming up on my Coleman (I bet mine is older than your's :-)



The AK I did I have already applied Molyresin to. It came out really well but I did see two distinctly different parkerizing colors with the park being much darker around heat treat areas on the receiver.



My actual first trial after doing a some odds and ends was a Lefever single shot. Now I bought this shotgun at a local gunshop that knows I like to fix up old guns. Now I'm not a purist and sometimes I will change things around.

This shot gun actually had rust on the barrel, no bluing and a beat up stock but you could tell it was solid otherwise. I sanded down the stock, put a grind to fit Pachmyer recoil pad on it and it's stained with Minwax red oak (three coats rubbed in) and sealed with Minwax hand rubbed satin polyurethane (four coats).

I sand blasted the metal parts and here's what I wound up with:













Lessons learned - cleaning is real important just like everyone said - so is abrasive blasting.

I added 2 tbs more Manganese Dioxide to the solution as I wanted it as dark as possible. I can't say that it made a huge difference.

BTW, I had a senior moment above - I made 5 gallons total. I bought 2.5 gallon jugs of distilled water and used both. Not 10 ... duh. I pretty much had 2.5-3 gallons left. Don't know how I came up with 10 - must have thought five and doubled that.

I definitely practiced / fiddled around first. It made a big difference once all the steel wool dissolved. It took longer than I thought for the 000 wool to break down but by the time I did this shotgun and then the AK, the solution was working really well.

My temperature with both burners running was 185-195 degrees. That seemed to work well.

Stirring up the sediment and letting it land on parts isn't a good idea :-)

I really appreciate all the posts you and Ding did Elkaholic.

Last edited by ronin; 08-01-2009 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:14 PM   #6
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BTW - Recipes:

Ding's original recipe
2 gallons water
1-2 plugs of steel wool
1 cup Prep & Etch per 2 callons of water
6 Tbs of manganese dioxide

The recipe I did was:

5 gallons water
5 plugs of 000 steel wool
Three cups of Klean Strip Prep & Etch from Lowes
11 Tbs of Manganese Dioxide bought of eBay (it came in a 5 pound package so I figured a little extra wouldn't hurt)

My water temperature was approximately 185-195 degrees. I had a thermometer and the temperature varied depending on how close I was to the burner.

Parts were suspended in the solution using stainless wire.

In 15-20 minutes my parts still weren't ready so I kept checking them.

Just to remind folks of a safety tip - add acid to the water and not the reverse.

I removed parts, rinsed them and immediately applied WD40.

The shotgun that is only Parkerized was coated with Ballistol gun oil and all moving surfaces greased and oiled in the mechanism.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:16 PM   #7
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Here's a link to Elkaholic and Ding talking things over:
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showth...ight=elkaholic
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:21 PM   #8
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Just so you know. Ding is the one that came up with this. I just tempted him in with pork rinds and then had him show me how to do this.

Iíve found that if I make the solution up (cooking the steel wool) and then just let it sit for a couple of days it works better.

You did a fine job. It looks great.

If you find yourself needing more of the Manganese shoot me a PM. I can get it locally for $4.00 a pound.


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Old 08-01-2009, 12:28 PM   #9
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phosphating functions based on the total acid to free acid ration which must be maintained as close to 5:1 for ideal functioning.

While I am not familiar with your recipe, I have found it better to mix extra ready to use formula and add it to replace evaporation, rather than just topping off with water and occasionally adding more concentrate. There are too many other variables in my process to determine if acid evaporation and water evaporation occur in the same ratios. Every couple months, I'll filter the old solution, mix new, and use the old to top off evaporation.

The flock sediment will insulate the tank and make heating require more tie so its useful to clean it out once in a while.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #10
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Thank you Mark. That makes a lot of sense. I bet if one is not careful and test the tank as you mention, it could still get out of whack eventually even when adding prepared solution.

BTW, I read your page on parkerizing and it helped me think things through. I may invest in the chemicals to titrate the tank if I start doing it more.

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.co...k/pagepark.htm
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkaholic
Just so you know. Ding is the one that came up with this. I just tempted him in with pork rinds and then had him show me how to do this.

Iíve found that if I make the solution up (cooking the steel wool) and then just let it sit for a couple of days it works better.

You did a fine job. It looks great.

If you find yourself needing more of the Manganese shoot me a PM. I can get it locally for $4.00 a pound.


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Will do sir. In checking my receipts I got 5 pounds of 99% lab grade Manganese Dioxide for $23.98 delivered so it sounds like I paid through the nose.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:29 PM   #12
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While I can titrate if I have a problem I can't otherwise diagnose, it is rarely time or cost effective. The concentrate solutions from DuLite or Brownells or some other company that WEG recommended make up in convenience what small amount might be saved in cost. Even at $51/gallon + hazmat (Brownells current retail price for Manganese concentrate) you are looking at less than a dollar or two per rifle in solution cost.

Spend $100 in pipettes and reagents or do 80 rifles with the same amount of pre-mix.
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Last edited by gunplumber; 08-01-2009 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:31 PM   #13
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I don't think I saved any money Mark. I thought it would be a cool experiment. You have to guarantee your work - I have the luxury of saying, "oh crap" and trying again or doing something else.
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:12 AM   #14
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just a bump. muttman
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Old 08-06-2009, 02:52 PM   #15
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Very nice ronin.
Really like the work on the shotgun!
Before pics would have been nice but from what you described, it
draws a pretty good mental picture of the previous condition.

*Elkaholic:
Can you shoot me a PM about getting a pound of that Manganese?
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Old 08-06-2009, 05:05 PM   #16
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I didn't get a great before shot but do have a few from before I started work:





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