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Old 12-02-2017, 03:51 PM   #1
TomJerome
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Default Accurate 7.62x51 out of a .308 bolt gun?

I've got a Ruger American Predator that has 1 MOA or less with various commercial brands of .308 ammo. I can find plenty of reviews of 7.62x51 accuracy, but they're all shot with semi-auto rifles. Does anyone have any experiences of shooting 7.62x51 surplus from a bolt gun and how it compares to .308?

The best deal I can find for .308 is PMC Bronze at 60-cents a round. I've used the PMC and it's fine ammo, but I'd like to get it down to the 35-40 cents a round that 7.62x51 presently goes for -- but if the MOA opens up from <1" to 2-3", then there's no point in getting the cheaper surplus ammo.
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Old 12-02-2017, 03:59 PM   #2
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If you want good accuracy out of that bolt gun, just stick to .308win
You can't be a cheap ass buying surplus or commercial if you want what you want.
You should handload for it as well.
Depending on barrel length, the 178gr A-max and V-max loads are awesome IMO. Keep and Bear Arms used to market their 178gr load as well.

I'm just waiting on people to trickle in and attack me for saying so and accuse me of spreading more bullshit among the forum.
Try those loads out if you want to. Be a cheap ass if you want to as well.
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Old 12-02-2017, 04:19 PM   #3
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if you want cheep and accurate then reload
with .308 Win 168 Grain Sierra Match King Boat Tail Hollow Point
you should get a group of .50 @ 200 yards consistent
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:17 PM   #4
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Good luck getting a 1/2" 200 yard group out of that Ruger.

Buddy has one. We have loaded about every thing for it with no joy.
About 1" at 100 for 5 shots. Best we could do.
The $275 Walmart savage out shoots it with every load we tried.

Try the military sniper stuff it was decent for a factory load butbut nothing special. Not cheap ammo either
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:17 PM   #5
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Ram rod nailed it
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:30 PM   #6
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Thanks for the info, guys. Kind of what I thought. I definitely am not going cheap as it would make no sense as far as increasing my skill.


I'm happy with a consistent 1 MOA out the Ruger as that was the typical report I got during research. Never expected to get 1/4 MOA at 200 yards. The rifle has provided better than that, so either my skill isn't yet up to it's capability, or I got lucky with those sub-MOA groups. I'm at a steady 1 MOA bench rested with the PMC Bronze and my ultimate goal is to get 2 MOA shooting offhand at 100 yards. So far I'm at 8 MOA so there's a lot of improvement to be done.
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Old 12-02-2017, 06:06 PM   #7
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http://www.snipercentral.com/ruger-american-predator/

Might want to check out the ammo they used^^^

Frankly I don't think the barrel quality is there on these and I think the hammer forged barrel starts to walk.
There a OK rifle for the money for hunting.

The 1 -10 twist should handel the heavier stuff a bit better.

Many 308 rifles are 1-12 .

My buddy won his .

Reloading does offer up some advantages.
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Old 12-02-2017, 07:16 PM   #8
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I agree reloading is the way to go. That said buy some federal gold medal match 168 and 175 grain ammo and see which your girl likes. I tried a number of commercial loads and federal does a good job. Keep in mind glass ie scope matters too. Buy a 200 to 300 scope and don't expect to shoot well beyond 600 yards. That said if you are shooting less than that primary arms and nikon are good options in my experience. Lastly take a long range class if you plan to shoot over 600 yards you will save a ton of money on ammo and you will drastically improve your craft.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJerome View Post
I've got a Ruger American Predator that has 1 MOA or less with various commercial brands of .308 ammo. I can find plenty of reviews of 7.62x51 accuracy, but they're all shot with semi-auto rifles. Does anyone have any experiences of shooting 7.62x51 surplus from a bolt gun and how it compares to .308?

The best deal I can find for .308 is PMC Bronze at 60-cents a round. I've used the PMC and it's fine ammo, but I'd like to get it down to the 35-40 cents a round that 7.62x51 presently goes for -- but if the MOA opens up from <1" to 2-3", then there's no point in getting the cheaper surplus ammo.
Buy some different brands of surplus and shoot,might get lucky...
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Good luck getting a 1/2" 200 yard group out of that Ruger.

Buddy has one. We have loaded about every thing for it with no joy.
About 1" at 100 for 5 shots. Best we could do.
The $275 Walmart savage out shoots it with every load we tried.

Try the military sniper stuff it was decent for a factory load butbut nothing special. Not cheap ammo either
But.....but......but everybody talks shit about Savage rifles. Just like they do the Bushmaster carbines. No way they can be worth having right?
You guys never cease to confuse me.
Has everyone gone to buying from Cheaper than Dirt again too!?
I just can't ever seem to keep up to date with some of you all. Like a bunch of women changing your mind every time you turn around.
Bash it one day, talk it up the next. Geez!
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:23 PM   #11
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During the research before buying the Predator, I almost bought a Savage as reports were nearly unanimous that they are slightly more accurate than most brands. I went with Ruger because of the warranty. Savage's warranty expires after a year. Ruger will take care of you as long as the weapon exists, even if they don't manufacture that model anymore.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:25 PM   #12
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What good is a warrenty on a bolt action rifle if it's not accurate??
Ruger is famous for saying the poor accuracy was with in spec.
Not a lot to fail on a savage if it's right to start with.

I have had bad Ruger's had to put a barrel on a 22-250 on own dime because the original was crap. I still have it a Stainless 77.
A Lot of plastic on that Ruger so a warrenty is a good thing.
Not trying to knock your choice it's just Savage has proved them selves as about the most accurate out of the box in a lower price range.

Buy a few boxes of every thing and try it. If your at 1" now there is likely room to improve.

How's the trigger on yours??
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
What good is a warrenty on a bolt action rifle if it's not accurate??
While I agree with that notion in principle, it doesn't apply here as I've already mentioned that I've gotten sub-MOA out of the Predator, and consistently 1 MOA. That's the accuracy I read about during research, the accuracy I expected, and the accuracy I got. And this is with cheap, PMC plinking ammo. I took about eight boxes of different brand, expensive hunting ammo of varying weights out for this this rifle's first range session and shot a few from each box. The points of impact varied slightly, but each brand gave me 1 MOA or less, all eight brands staying within a 2 MOA circle. For a light-weight, inexpensive, throw-around rifle, that's all I need.

As far as Ruger's warranty, I recently sent in a rifle for an issue other than accuracy, they tested the rifle in general, did not like the accuracy it provided, and completely re barreled it for free. I have several other Ruger firearms, all of which work without problems.

The trigger on my Predator is fine with its factory weight. I haven't adjusted it. I started shooting long ago with double-action revolvers and have several military surplus rifles so I'm used to fairly heavy triggers.

I wasn't looking for a future family heirloom or a benchrest 1/4 MOA range rifle. I was looking for a reliable, relatively accurate, mule gun that wouldn't worry me about getting scratched or dinged up. I started this thread to see if I could cut the cost of ammo by using surplus, but it seems that I'll have to stick with about $0.60 a round, which for careful precision (as much as possible) shooting is not that bad.
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:55 AM   #14
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What's the twist rate? My 1:10 CZ 557 UCS (16" barrel) won't shoot tighter than 2" at 100 yards with most all surplus i've been testing Loves heavy stuff.
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slvrwrx View Post
What's the twist rate? My 1:10 CZ 557 UCS (16" barrel) won't shoot tighter than 2" at 100 yards with most all surplus i've been testing Loves heavy stuff.
Your twist is good...and 2" @ 100 yards with surplus is good as well. I would be happy with that from any rifle/surplus combination.
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:37 PM   #16
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My 308 predator seems to like my hand loads that are 178gr smk with 4064 powder. I haven't strayed much from that path, because it really shoots as good or better than me. I was pegging a 12x20 torso target at 1000yrds with prettty good regularity after I got it zero'd in.
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42tula View Post
Ram rod nailed it
Agreed.

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Old 12-04-2017, 07:28 PM   #18
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Savage 308 with 175 gr SMK hitting 5" steel plates @ 700 yds.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:31 PM   #19
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There was a Military Arms Channel video on YouTube of making a 1000 yard rifle for under $1000 ( including optics )

He used a Savage Model 10 ( .308 ) and Primary Arms optics. The rifle was around $600; scope around $250.



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Old 12-04-2017, 09:01 PM   #20
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Default Tikka ctr

I was suprised how well cheap steel case, ppu, zqi, etc shoot out of my 308 tikka ctr. Any cheap stuff I have shot holds 1 moa or less. Of course hand loads and federal match shoot 1/4 moa. The heavier barreled tikka ctr's shoot everything consistently. I have a 6.5 creedmoor ctr also. The cheaper entry level rifle barrels are going to dissappoint with inconsistencies.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:10 AM   #21
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I used to shoot Chilean 308,

Out of my Howa bolt gun... Was nutz on... Surplus 308 shoots consistently great out of my Ruger scout rifle.. Probably a "fluke", ay?

Just saying...

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Old 12-05-2017, 08:10 PM   #22
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I was suprised how well cheap steel case, ppu, zqi, etc shoot out of my 308 tikka ctr. Any cheap stuff I have shot holds 1 moa or less. Of course hand loads and federal match shoot 1/4 moa. The heavier barreled tikka ctr's shoot everything consistently. I have a 6.5 creedmoor ctr also. The cheaper entry level rifle barrels are going to dissappoint with inconsistencies.
1/4 moa? Doubtful.

It depends on how you evaluate accuracy I like to evaluate a rifle over time and take the average many groups fired (for me at least 30 or more overtime). Even a 1moa rifle can occasionally print 1/4moa groups, thus some guys in turn will call that 1 moa rifle a 1/4 moa gun. If you go and look at the accuracy challenge on ARF which is the average of 5/5 shot groups not even $7,000 custom rigs have averaged 1/4moa in fact nothing has. Tikka CTR's are most commonly in the 0.7-0.9moa range which is good and you should be proud of those results but don't exaggerate for effect.
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:41 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJerome View Post
I've got a Ruger American Predator that has 1 MOA or less with various commercial brands of .308 ammo. I can find plenty of reviews of 7.62x51 accuracy, but they're all shot with semi-auto rifles. Does anyone have any experiences of shooting 7.62x51 surplus from a bolt gun and how it compares to .308?

The best deal I can find for .308 is PMC Bronze at 60-cents a round. I've used the PMC and it's fine ammo, but I'd like to get it down to the 35-40 cents a round that 7.62x51 presently goes for -- but if the MOA opens up from <1" to 2-3", then there's no point in getting the cheaper surplus ammo.
So you're looking for 35-40 cent per round loaded factory 308 ammo that's capable of sub moa out of an entry level factory rifle like the American. Well not to be rude but so are we. Totally unrealistic but it would be nice.

If you're getting consistent sub moa out of the American with cheap commercial brass like PMC then you probably hit the jackpot with that rifle. I would venture to say that they don't all shot that well with said ammo, in fact I'd have to see it to believe it. Factory rifle's can vary some rifle's the from same manufacture the same make and model will shot great some not so much. It's just the effect of mass production and the looser tolerances that come along with it. If it really shoots that way maybe you want to hang on to that American.

35-40 cpr in 308 puts you into one or two types or surplus and all brands of steel case. None of which are capable of meeting your goals. If you want to get down to sub moa with said ammo a better rifle is another option. Even then cheap ammo also has variances. I've a Christensen CA10 barrel in an AR10 which I built to shoot steel case out of that's capable of 10 round groups at 1 moa with Wolf 308 steel case ammo which is $0.32cpr. But even then due to the inconsistency of the ammo 2-3 rounds get slung and open it up to 1.75moa everytime with the remaining 7-8 rounds at 1moa. With FGMM the rifle is averaging 0.65 moa across multiple goups fired so far. A gun that shoots good ammo tighter will shoot cheap ammo tighter as well so you can achieve pretty good accuracy from cheap ammo with a more accurate gun/barrel. It's just a choice of pay more for the ammo, pay more for the gun, or pay more with your time while reloading but either way you're going to have to pay.

Last edited by nofreetime; 12-05-2017 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by nofreetime View Post
So you're looking for 35-40 cent per round loaded factory 308 ammo that's capable of sub moa out of an entry level factory rifle like the American. Well not to be rude but so are we. Totally unrealistic but it would be nice.
You're not being rude. That was precisely my question. A lot of surplus 7.62x51 has recently hit the market and I couldn't find any reviews pertaining to it being shot out of anything but a semi-auto.

I just picked up some more PMC Bronze at 60-cents a round, shipped, from Sportsman's Guide, plus a $15 coupon towards a future purchase. It'll do fine.
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Old 12-07-2017, 11:05 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJerome View Post
You're not being rude. That was precisely my question. A lot of surplus 7.62x51 has recently hit the market and I couldn't find any reviews pertaining to it being shot out of anything but a semi-auto.

I just picked up some more PMC Bronze at 60-cents a round, shipped, from Sportsman's Guide, plus a $15 coupon towards a future purchase. It'll do fine.
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324515

I shot ZQI and Malaysian surplus from a CZ 550 FS with a 4-14 PA FFS scope. This is the first time Iím ever shot for groups so I suspect a more experienced shooter with the same rifle could probably cut down all of those groups considerably. On top of that the CZ 550 FS is regarded as being fairly accurate usually considered to be a 1 moa or better rifle with good ammo. A more accurized rifle would obviously do better as a full stock is not generally conducive to accuracy.

Summarizing the above link, I shot the Malaysian surplus around 3.5Ē at 100 yd and the ZQI was 4-5Ē. Betting the Malaysian is probably capable of 2Ē but not with me behind the trigger of that rifle
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:47 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by sboone View Post
http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324515

I shot ZQI and Malaysian surplus from a CZ 550 FS with a 4-14 PA FFS scope. This is the first time Iím ever shot for groups so I suspect a more experienced shooter with the same rifle could probably cut down all of those groups considerably. On top of that the CZ 550 FS is regarded as being fairly accurate usually considered to be a 1 moa or better rifle with good ammo. A more accurized rifle would obviously do better as a full stock is not generally conducive to accuracy.

Summarizing the above link, I shot the Malaysian surplus around 3.5Ē at 100 yd and the ZQI was 4-5Ē. Betting the Malaysian is probably capable of 2Ē but not with me behind the trigger of that rifle
Thanks for the link to your thread. I did a search and am not sure how I missed it. Just the information I was looking for.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:33 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Thanks for the link to your thread. I did a search and am not sure how I missed it. Just the information I was looking for.
Keep in mind that ZQI is on the low end of what I would call surplus and I believe the Malaysian is firmly in the ballpark of good quality plinking ammo although Iím stacking it like a motherfucker. Iíve not shot any other surplus but I have a can of radway green hiding somewhere I just donít remember but if I find it Iíll give it a 10 shot group and see what happens. My money goes better than Malaysian but still more than 2 moa
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