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Old 06-30-2018, 09:19 PM   #3991
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Your fighting carbine full auto?? I didn't think so . So the ammo your calming is designed soley for this purpose is really is not being used in its as designed for role is it ?
I actually stated the 5.45 might be a better full auto round in this thread . Its one of the few thing I felt it might be better at due to its lower recoil .

And the 5.56 will do ALL that crap better or as well . I acknowledge the use just fine .
I disagree 5.45 better in a battle carbine .

The title of the thread is what makes 5.45 BETTER than 5.56.not is the 5.45 good enough for my AK 74

5.45 is Not better in a carbine not any better in a AK . Every hear any Israelis, or east Germans, Bulgarians or Africans having reliability issues ??
The 223 was being shot in AK variants ( the Galil ) before 5.45 existed!
and its been doing it quite well . in what scenario's has the 5.45 done any thing better in the hands of any member here than a 5.56/223 offering other than being cheaper years ago ?????

Im not saying the 5.45 is not good enough for a AK 74. I am saying the same rifle in 223 or 5.56 can be even better, faster , more accurate cheaper to shoot , reloadable and all that . You don't want your 5.45 for any thing but shooting people or practicing shooting people that fine but the round is NOT better .

I not once said the 5.45 was not reliable or effective on people in military use .Its good enough

I never said the 223 is the end all rifle round or compared it to a 300 Mag . Your doing that .
I am comparing the 5.45 to the 5.56 /223 one is clearly better in almost every category if not all . If I thought the 223 was perfect would I be building my last 4 AKs in something different that also not 7.62x39 ??

Trying to dumb it down to its all you need because the rifle it fits is also limited proves nothing. It actually hurts the pro 5.45 argument.
You saying you have to go to different round because the 5.45 wont do what you want . The 223 will fill a bigger range of many shooters needs .
I can make hits at 800 yards with a 223 a 5.45 wont do it as well.
If I want to punch paper of Gophers as you called them I can with out the need to go buy a different rifle . Its called versatility

Lets try this
the 5.56 / 223 the same great round that is shot in the ar15 used by the military of lots of countries also chambered in bolt actions , pumps , single shots , pistols , for defense , hunting and target shooting in competitions with cheap ammo and many many options and reloading components CAN ALO BE USED IN MULTIPUL AK VARIANTS INCLUDING ONES ISSUED BY MILITARYS in a good enough manner as the the 5.45 is in its limited application as a AK 74

the thread is not is the 5.45 good enough ??

The fact a 223 AK can be more versatile than 5.45 AK is a ADVANTAGE .

If guys only want there particular AK for one reason that's there choice . The rest of the 100 million r so 5.56/223 shooters know options and selection is a good thing. they speak with there wallets pretty loud and clear.
Once again for the thousandth time. I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT 5.45 IS BETTER THAN 556. You are thick. I would hate to have a real time conversation with you. It would drive me crazy. I know someone like you. Nobody likes them either. You are arrogant. The reason everyone argues with you is because of the way you come across. Instead of simply disagreeing or just stating your thoughts, you belittle the other side and talk down on them like they are stupid. It pisses people off and it turns into an argument. Go back in almost all of the threads you post in. It always ends the same. Im 1biggun. I make stupid aks from scratch. Im so much better and so are my guns. My handloads are awesome. I can do and i know everything. My rifles are used for what they were designed for, you know shooting gophers and putting 10 shots through one hole using an abomination of a rifle. Yours arent. Shooting aks at steel on seminauto isnt what they are designed for so you are astupid bla bla

Learn how to communicate with others correctly and this wouldnt happen. You are too arrogant to understand this though.

I dont think any cartridge is any better or worse than another when used as intended. Depends on the need. Pick any cartridge and there are 10 more that would be considered redundant.

All this shit over a cartridge. Stupid. Im done and im out.
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:47 PM   #3992
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Once again for the thousandth time. I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT 5.45 IS BETTER THAN 556. You are thick. I would hate to have a real time conversation with you. It would drive me crazy. I know someone like you. Nobody likes them either. You are arrogant. The reason everyone argues with you is because of the way you come across. Instead of simply disagreeing or just stating your thoughts, you belittle the other side and talk down on them like they are stupid. It pisses people off and it turns into an argument. Go back in almost all of the threads you post in. It always ends the same. Im 1biggun. I make stupid aks from scratch. Im so much better and so are my guns. My handloads are awesome. I can do and i know everything. My rifles are used for what they were designed for, you know shooting gophers and putting 10 shots through one hole using an abomination of a rifle. Yours arent. Shooting aks at steel on seminauto isnt what they are designed for so you are astupid bla bla

Learn how to communicate with others correctly and this wouldnt happen. You are too arrogant to understand this though.

I dont think any cartridge is any better or worse than another when used as intended. Depends on the need. Pick any cartridge and there are 10 more that would be considered redundant.

All this shit over a cartridge. Stupid. Im done and im out.
You may want to check the thread title.
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Old 06-30-2018, 11:58 PM   #3993
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Full auto is a waste of ammo in a real fight
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:23 AM   #3994
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I have an AR-15, but I only buy M193 for it because it’s cheap and I can stack it deep for SHTF. It’s good enough at stopping humans (provided the velocity is sufficient). There are more effective loads at higher weights but they are also more expensive.

I like 5.45 because it’s even cheaper than M193 and for stopping humans it’s good enough. I like that it relies more on tumbling than fragmenting, to me that seems like a good idea because it doesn’t depend on velocity.

I prefer both 5.45 and 5.56 over 7.62x39 because they seem to perform better on soft tissue, are less likely to over penetrate, are lighter and have less recoil.

I like to keep it simple. I want the cheapest effective round that I can buy a shitload of for the cheapest amount. I shoot the same round at the range that I keep for self defense. If I ever need to use it for self defense, it’s good enough. I can’t make someone deader than dead.

The rest is wasted on me. So in my eyes, yes 5.45 is better than 5.56 because I can stock more of it and at the price point I’m looking for the performance is more or less the same.
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:18 PM   #3995
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Full auto is a waste of ammo in a real fight
Really? Ever been in one ??? was it when you Moms basement was invaded ?
Funny solders seem to keep using it . funny 100,000 ,0000 AK all have it for the most part . this from the Russians who gave out one rifle for three solders in WWII

Ever shoot a FA ? I have if there is three zombies you coming all you got to do is sweep in one direction .

Im no solder but FA has it s place .

Nobody here is going to be in a fire fight with there 5.45 and if they do the ammo situation is the last of there worries .

Id love a full auto AK 74 so would about every guy on this site .

Making up excuses why its not better because you cant have it is lame .
It also has nothing to do with the subject .

I concede the 5.45 might have one advantage and you still want to fucking argue about shit not related .

who cares if its a waste of ammo ??? the round might be better in FA but you still want to argue .
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:33 PM   #3996
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I have an AR-15, but I only buy M193 for it because its cheap and I can stack it deep for SHTF. Its good enough at stopping humans (provided the velocity is sufficient). There are more effective loads at higher weights but they are also more expensive.

I like 5.45 because its even cheaper than M193 and for stopping humans its good enough. I like that it relies more on tumbling than fragmenting, to me that seems like a good idea because it doesnt depend on velocity.

I prefer both 5.45 and 5.56 over 7.62x39 because they seem to perform better on soft tissue, are less likely to over penetrate, are lighter and have less recoil.

I like to keep it simple. I want the cheapest effective round that I can buy a shitload of for the cheapest amount. I shoot the same round at the range that I keep for self defense. If I ever need to use it for self defense, its good enough. I cant make someone deader than dead.

The rest is wasted on me. So in my eyes, yes 5.45 is better than 5.56 because I can stock more of it and at the price point Im looking for the performance is more or less the same.
You know there is steel cased 223 cheaper than any currently available 5.45 right ??? it will kill you as dead as any of the other stuff .

so what is your cost savings of getting a AK and a AR and having two different rifles and mags when cost of defense is your main concern .
Nothing against you having all the stuff you want but the whole I need cheap ammo to defend my self argument is sort of invalid if your supporting multiple calibers and rifle platforms .

I never said 5.45 is not good enough .


Id really love to here your envisioned defense scenario were the 5.45 and the 5.56 is going to have any different out come in your survival ???

I place a value on my and my families life higher than 23 cents a round and if I could not afford good ammo I sure the hell would not stack a mountain of crappy ammo I could not afford .
I don't have old used corrosive military ammo governed by the rules of war to defend my life . I have he meanest nastiest stuff made to kill not incapacitate living creatures If its $1 round so be it . I don't expect to ever actually fire any if it a people any way .

To each there own but I not buying the cost savings that much .

what is your envisioned needed stash for this SHTF event and how much are you saving ????

Other than a 22 LR I doubt I own a rifle round thats not going to stop a person in a defensive situation including the M1 carbine .
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Old 07-01-2018, 03:02 PM   #3997
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Once again for the thousandth time. I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT 5.45 IS BETTER THAN 556. You are thick. I would hate to have a real time conversation with you. It would drive me crazy. I know someone like you. Nobody likes them either. You are arrogant. The reason everyone argues with you is because of the way you come across. Instead of simply disagreeing or just stating your thoughts, you belittle the other side and talk down on them like they are stupid. It pisses people off and it turns into an argument. Go back in almost all of the threads you post in. It always ends the same. “Im 1biggun. I make stupid aks from scratch. Im so much better and so are my guns. My handloads are awesome. I can do and i know everything. My rifles are used for what they were designed for, you know shooting gophers and putting 10 shots through one hole using an abomination of a rifle. Yours arent. Shooting aks at steel on seminauto isnt what they are designed for so you are astupid bla bla

Learn how to communicate with others correctly and this wouldnt happen. You are too arrogant to understand this though.

I dont think any cartridge is any better or worse than another when used as intended. Depends on the need. Pick any cartridge and there are 10 more that would be considered redundant.

All this shit over a cartridge. Stupid. Im done and im out.
You might want to read the beginning threads and see who talked shit to who first !!



All that about what I can do with a AK is because of there being options.

thick ?? after 100 plus pages you cant grasp that its about what round is better not what round and rifle is better .
Not my problem there is only a few options for the 5.45 .
and hundreds of 223/ 5.56 choices including more factory built and issues AK variants in 223 than there is in 5.56 . including rifles like the Galil that have models that are not carbines and have longer barrel's for more precision work .

Thick is thinking this is all about the AK 74 and nothing else and disregarding the subject .

You think im the only one shooting at little things with a small bore rifle ???
were do you think the millions of rounds of good ammo in 223 go ????
You think its all bolt action guys ??? 90% is guys with carbines .

realize there is more guys shooting more 223 ammo in one year than likely all the 5.45 ammo ever been shot this country ever . there not all shooting human sized target .

hell I likely shot more 223 ammo this week than all the 5.45 x39 ammo ever shot at a living human in the US in the last 20 years .


Quote:
I NEVER ONCE SAID THAT 5.45 IS BETTER THAN 556.
So then what is your point ??? Im a dick ? OK fine but what does that have to do with the topic ??

Hating a guy because hes right about something , guys have a emotional attachment over is pretty thick

I took all your arguments into consideration and even said you had valid points .
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:13 PM   #3998
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You might want to read the beginning threads and see who talked shit to who first !!



All that about what I can do with a AK is because of there being options.

thick ?? after 100 plus pages you cant grasp that its about what round is better not what round and rifle is better .
Not my problem there is only a few options for the 5.45 .
and hundreds of 223/ 5.56 choices including more factory built and issues AK variants in 223 than there is in 5.56 . including rifles like the Galil that have models that are not carbines and have longer barrel's for more precision work .

Thick is thinking this is all about the AK 74 and nothing else and disregarding the subject .

You think im the only one shooting at little things with a small bore rifle ???
were do you think the millions of rounds of good ammo in 223 go ????
You think its all bolt action guys ??? 90% is guys with carbines .

realize there is more guys shooting more 223 ammo in one year than likely all the 5.45 ammo ever been shot this country ever . there not all shooting human sized target .

hell I likely shot more 223 ammo this week than all the 5.45 x39 ammo ever shot at a living human in the US in the last 20 years .




So then what is your point ??? Im a dick ? OK fine but what does that have to do with the topic ??

Hating a guy because hes right about something , guys have a emotional attachment over is pretty thick

I took all your arguments into consideration and even said you had valid points .

Like I said, emotion, vs. logic.

The 5.45 is best crowd, are just showing their feelings. Emoting, I guess you'd call it these days.
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Old 07-02-2018, 10:29 AM   #3999
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AK74 +5.45 = GOOD ENOUGH
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:10 PM   #4000
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freaking comedy
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:28 PM   #4001
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freaking comedy
It would be comedic if they didn't actually believe the BS they're spewing.

This is willful ignorance on display by OBG and our resident statist.
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Old 07-02-2018, 01:37 PM   #4002
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Somebody was drunk posting yesterday
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:05 PM   #4003
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Facts and statics prove about everything I have said.
You don't need to believe in it.

However 5.45 is like a religion were you have to believe in some unknown god or force to feel every thing is ok .
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:25 PM   #4004
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It would be comedic if they didn't actually believe the BS they're spewing.

This is willful ignorance on display by OBG and our resident statist.
thats true, the derp with our (2) resident fudds here is stronger than ever.

but hey, when you are 60 year old man who doesnt own a single AKs decides to join an AK-oriented forum and enlighten us about his lack of knowledge of them ......you know you are going to get a treat.
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Old 07-02-2018, 03:44 PM   #4005
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All bow and worship at the alter of 5.45.
Praise the majic of the tunneling bullet
Thou shalt not spite corossive powder and be swayed by thou of little faith or those of more bounty and choice
May the evil of thy importer be cast from the land and
The round once again rain down for thee of little fruit.
May faith guide your crooked speer to thee enemy in the space of thous sacred mother dwelling below thy floor of her house and be contained in that foundation .
Pray that your fellow believers find the source of the eternal offering of 5.45 and it be plentiful for thy defecation striking thee fan .

Believe fellow 5.45 owners that you have chosen the David of all Spears and it shall defeat Goliath In fantasy field of battle .
Thou shalt not aim for those who truly believe will be guided by the spirit of corrosive powder filled in the vessel of steel fired by a irreplaceable spark to never be used again.
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Old 07-02-2018, 04:03 PM   #4006
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I had this same delima only backwards when I decided on a 74 type. Went with the 5.45 first but a 5.56 SLR106cr so I'd have both and I purchase 5.45 when I can I use cheap 5.45 tulammo for plinking,wolf lacquered and sealed as storage and only 500 rounds of 7N6 put back for that rainy day and with hornady making a steal case ballistic tip 5.45 round I plan on deer hunting with my 104ur this year while my wife will use the 5.56. It's a toss up I like both 5.56 more options most certainly accuracy is close to each other imo. I'd also add that I have seen the effects of both rounds in a combat theater and by far when comparing mil ammo the 5.45 is devastating compared to a 5.56. It isn't nicknamed the poison bullet without good reason.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:14 AM   #4007
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I had this same delima only backwards when I decided on a 74 type. Went with the 5.45 first but a 5.56 SLR106cr so I'd have both and I purchase 5.45 when I can I use cheap 5.45 tulammo for plinking,wolf lacquered and sealed as storage and only 500 rounds of 7N6 put back for that rainy day and with hornady making a steal case ballistic tip 5.45 round I plan on deer hunting with my 104ur this year while my wife will use the 5.56. It's a toss up I like both 5.56 more options most certainly accuracy is close to each other imo. I'd also add that I have seen the effects of both rounds in a combat theater and by far when comparing mil ammo the 5.45 is devastating compared to a 5.56. It isn't nicknamed the poison bullet without good reason.

Not to pry but can you tell us a little more? The habibs over there have 74s as well? I always kinda figured theyd only have 47s for some reason.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:02 AM   #4008
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Not to pry but can you tell us a little more? The habibs over there have 74’s as well? I always kinda figured they’d only have 47’s for some reason.
Quite a few 74s mainly AKSU but mostly 7.62. with typical mil loads our 5.56 would smoke through individuals and being hot it tended to self cauterize alot and the entrance and exit typically smaller holes so we always knew when one of the "villagers" needed a GSW treatment and it was a smaller wound and non vital hit he most likely was the same MFer we just got attacked by and returned fire. And we could always tell if it was a legit villager who was attacked by a Tali and hit by a 5.45 or 7.62 the 5.45 chewed shit up inside to exit,entrance was about same diameter as 5.56 unless it tumbled b4 impact which happened from worn to shit AK'S and the 7.62 was easy to spot bigger hole massive tissue damage from it but typically not as much blood loss as the 5.45 would create. Now if not for Geneva convention and restrictions if we could use a ballistic tip,hollow point or even my least preferred a soft point I have no doubt the 5.56 would cause a ton of damage my son took his first buck last year with a 5.56 deer still ran 300 yds but it did the job. for me I'm a 308 kinda guy I like my deer to drop and not get back up lol I plan on trying 5.45 hornady loads this year to see the difference.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:14 AM   #4009
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very cool info Kiowa^^

if you google a member "X" ..i think.... over on old AKforum.net, he did some deer hunting using Hornady's 60 grain Vmax bullet and posted entrance/exit wounds of the Vmax load. When I wrote the article for Hornady on the subject in the book of the AK few years ago, I submitted all of pictures/descriptions for the Article- but they did not want to publish them as they were pretty graphic. I would post them here, but that was on my old PC which died and I no longer have them.

I think the pix might be still up in the old "practical" section over there....
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:31 AM   #4010
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I like 5.45x39, it's a fun round. I like it in my AK's, I like making #5.45MasterRace jokes. From a logistical standpoint 5.56x45 is the better round. I mean hell when I go into work to buy 5.45x39 ammo I'm usually limited to two or four different options that all seem to be getting more expensive everytime I look at them. That being said 5.45 and the 74 are second cool for me, and if I ever had to use a rifle for any serious use I'd grab my AR in 5.56x45. Also happy taco Tuesday everyone.

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Old 07-10-2018, 12:44 PM   #4011
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One aspect I think everyone's missing is the benefit of having an uncommon caliber. In situations where it's more likely you'll be stolen from (vehicles parked on the street, residences in high crime areas, bugout locations), stashing 5.45x39 greatly reduces the odds that thieves can then use that ammo against you.

In that aspect, it's useful to have bullets that nearly match 5.56 in performance but can't be chambered in common rifles.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:54 PM   #4012
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One aspect I think everyone's missing is the benefit of having an uncommon caliber. In situations where it's more likely you'll be stolen from (vehicles parked on the street, residences in high crime areas, bugout locations), stashing 5.45x39 greatly reduces the odds that thieves can then use that ammo against you.

In that aspect, it's useful to have bullets that nearly match 5.56 in performance but can't be chambered in common rifles.
this. I don't have any guns in 5.56 for this reason sorta. I do need another AK74 to supplement my krink and the investment i made in 5.45 however.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:55 PM   #4013
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I think that has probably come up before in the 115 pages of this thread lol.
But as I may have noted over a year ago now, that's also one of the major benefits of having firearms chambered in 5.56.
I think its far more likely that you're gonna need ammo in some scenario like that. Rather than worry about it being stolen from you and being used against you.
So +1 again for 5.56 if you're living in America. One of the most common calibers around.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:37 PM   #4014
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One aspect I think everyone's missing is the benefit of having an uncommon caliber. In situations where it's more likely you'll be stolen from (vehicles parked on the street, residences in high crime areas, bugout locations), stashing 5.45x39 greatly reduces the odds that thieves can then use that ammo against you.

In that aspect, it's useful to have bullets that nearly match 5.56 in performance but can't be chambered in common rifles.
so your survival plan is to have a less popular, accurate round , that is more expensive because your worried thieves will only want to use the better stuff to shoot you with rather than your own stuff ??
Brilliant .

Im going to go order a 32 rim fire tomorrow . No way im getting shot with my own ammo .

food for thought .
Don't you think the thieves already have a 223 or 5.56 and will shoot you any way ??

Dont you think if 5.45 gets banned or sanctioned that it will become a target for criminals to go after because it will be more expensive to sell to 5.45 fan boys who need ammo??.

Some guys leave a POS rifle in the open so it gets stolen and they don't find the safe hidden being the wall .
I think a crate of 5.45 on the coffee table would be a good decoy to leave out .

In fact I now want a coffee table made from 5.45 cases . now that would be cool

Man you guys are really stretching it to find a way 5.45 is better LOL

I can see you at the gun shop. No way I don't want a 308 win give me a 7.6553mm Argentine instead you would be a fool to buy a popular round guys steal it all the time will and shoot me . Keep that 223 away from me I don't want to die form my own ammo . Give me something inferior nobody wants please .

Come on you can do better .

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Old 07-10-2018, 08:45 PM   #4015
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Or buy a 223 ammo because if some one breaks in and steals you rifle you can actually buy another one to shoot the ammo you have .

it would suck to have 500,000 rounds of 5.45 ammo not be able to find a affordable rifle to shoot it LOL
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:45 AM   #4016
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so your survival plan is to have a less popular, accurate round , that is more expensive because your worried thieves will only want to use the better stuff to shoot you with rather than your own stuff ??
Brilliant .

[...]

Come on you can do better .
Why do I need to do better? If I ran into your .32 rimfire stash, I wouldn't have a gun to shoot you with it. That's absolutely the point I was making. If a raiding party ran into your stash, they'd only gain as much firepower as they had guns chambered in it. That is an undeniable advantage in stocking 5.45x39 in an auxiliary location that you can't secure all of the time.

Yes, if the thieves can shoot you, they probably will, regardless of caliber, 5.56 included. But they'll be limited in options if they can't easily resupply off your stash of weird calibers. That's helpful to your family and community even if you're dead and gone. Typical criminals are idiots and wouldn't think to play the market of banned rounds, but when if they were criminal masterminds, having a 5.56 stash doesn't make you immune to that. If anything it makes you a bigger target since they're guaranteed buyers for your hoard which might make a risky raid worth it for the payoff.

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not worried about anything. My firearms are mostly for fun, and that includes my AKS74 clone. Your Argentine Mauser example will fall into that category too. What I'm saying is that if you already own an inferior caliber rifle, that you might as well include it in your arsenal and survival plans, because it brings certain advantages, even if in your opinion they're not worth it. As discussed ad nauseam in the previous posts, 5.45 (or 5.7 or whatever) does not trail by a significant amount behind 5.56. I could've invested in another 5.56 rifle, but not doing so isn't a death warrant either. And all of the performance shortcomings aside from ballistics can be addressed with superior fitness, tactics and logistics, and even then most people won't have enough of any of them to tell the difference.

If odd calibers is what you enjoy, so be it, and don't think of them as utterly useless rifles compared to AR15s in 5.56. The disadvantage matters less than you think.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:17 AM   #4017
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Or buy a 223 ammo because if some one breaks in and steals you rifle you can actually buy another one to shoot the ammo you have .

it would suck to have 500,000 rounds of 5.45 ammo not be able to find a affordable rifle to shoot it LOL
This isn't a thread questioning the best rifle. Availability of quality 5.45 rifles in the US currently sucks. It's a thread about the usefulness of 5.45 compared to 5 56. Everyone seems to miss the point and likes to go off on tangents.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:40 AM   #4018
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Why do I need to do better? If I ran into your .32 rimfire stash, I wouldn't have a gun to shoot you with it. That's absolutely the point I was making. If a raiding party ran into your stash, they'd only gain as much firepower as they had guns chambered in it. That is an undeniable advantage in stocking 5.45x39 in an auxiliary location that you can't secure all of the time.

Yes, if the thieves can shoot you, they probably will, regardless of caliber, 5.56 included. But they'll be limited in options if they can't easily resupply off your stash of weird calibers. That's helpful to your family and community even if you're dead and gone. Typical criminals are idiots and wouldn't think to play the market of banned rounds, but when if they were criminal masterminds, having a 5.56 stash doesn't make you immune to that. If anything it makes you a bigger target since they're guaranteed buyers for your hoard which might make a risky raid worth it for the payoff.

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm not worried about anything. My firearms are mostly for fun, and that includes my AKS74 clone. Your Argentine Mauser example will fall into that category too. What I'm saying is that if you already own an inferior caliber rifle, that you might as well include it in your arsenal and survival plans, because it brings certain advantages, even if in your opinion they're not worth it. As discussed ad nauseam in the previous posts, 5.45 (or 5.7 or whatever) does not trail by a significant amount behind 5.56. I could've invested in another 5.56 rifle, but not doing so isn't a death warrant either. And all of the performance shortcomings aside from ballistics can be addressed with superior fitness, tactics and logistics, and even then most people won't have enough of any of them to tell the difference.

If odd calibers is what you enjoy, so be it, and don't think of them as utterly useless rifles compared to AR15s in 5.56. The disadvantage matters less than you think.
Raiding parties?? Unsecured auxiliary locations? ? Criminals that won't think to sell large stashes of ammo??
Seriously this is a reason to have a 5.45 over 223 . Good Grief.

If you irresponsible enough to leave stashes of ammo in remote locations that can't be secured or hidden then you need to rethink things.

The notion that a criminal can find your stash but is to stupid to find a rifle to shoot it is pretty ubsurd.

I'll stick with a fire arm that has ammo being made and sold by multipul companies and countries and sold in every place that carries ammo. VS some mofidite crap that may be banned and aparently now according to you has firearms in such short supply criminals can find one to shoot me with my own ammo.
Absurd.

Great plan goes right along with having a Studibaker pick up for your urban assult vehicle . Nobody will take it because you can't get parts. .
It should have a 8 track sound system so criminals won't steal it and you Peaches and Erb soundtrack.
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Old 07-11-2018, 11:43 AM   #4019
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This isn't a thread questioning the best rifle. Availability of quality 5.45 rifles in the US currently sucks. It's a thread about the usefulness of 5.45 compared to 5 56. Everyone seems to miss the point and likes to go off on tangents.
No I'm not missing a thing.
5.56 is cheaper, faster, more accurate, reloadable, more avaliable, better selection , and has multipul types of fire arms to shoot it in.
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Old 07-11-2018, 06:19 PM   #4020
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No I'm not missing a thing.
5.56 is cheaper, faster, more accurate, reloadable, more avaliable, better selection , and has multipul types of fire arms to shoot it in.
Let me be extra clear then. I don't think anyone's first rifle should be chambered in 5.45x39. I don't think their primary go-to rifle should be in 5.45x39. And under most circumstances, if you're shopping around for a backup, 5.45x39 is not on the top of the list. I actually think 5.45x39 is a poor fit in those roles as of 2018 in America since 5.56x45 is ballistically superior in every way.

That being said, if you happen to like the round (because it's good enough for lots of applications, or because it's a legacy round back from when it was much cheaper, or whatever), you can use its massive incompatibility to your favor. If you control the rifle, the ammo is close to useless; control the ammo and the rifle is close to useless. I was just listing creative ways that you could make that particular quality work in your system, in ways that 5.56 can't due to its ubiquity.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:35 PM   #4021
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I think that has probably come up before in the 115 pages of this thread lol.
But as I may have noted over a year ago now, that's also one of the major benefits of having firearms chambered in 5.56.
I think its far more likely that you're gonna need ammo in some scenario like that. Rather than worry about it being stolen from you and being used against you.
So +1 again for 5.56 if you're living in America. One of the most common calibers around.
LOL, I did my best to skim through the high points but I'm sure I missed a few.

I don't worry that much about getting stolen from. I'm not saying that it's not beneficial to have a 5.56 in America. I've got one myself. They're handy.

If the question were asked, "In what ways is an AK74 better than an M4?" then I might answer "Lower bore axis iron sights," and I feel like someone would still reply "Durr hurr, AKs aren't accurate anyway and peep sights are superior for accuracy in every way."

I could answer "Ease / availability of folding stocks and firing while folded," and someone would shout, "You can't use them with optics and shooting folded has limited tactical value."

I could answer "Ease of QD muzzle devices," and someone would say, "And all of them suck." None of these responses are *incorrect,* but neither do they address my hypothetical answers either.

This is why judges recommend most people get a lawyer to speak on their behalf. It's like arguing with children and I'm embarrassed to continue for much longer, but please, feel free to keep entertaining me.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:20 PM   #4022
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I was just listing creative ways that you could make that particular quality work in your system, in ways that 5.56 can't due to its ubiquity.
Id have gone with the boxes are more decomposable and environmentally friendly than 223 that has plastic or Styrofoam dividers . LOL
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:37 AM   #4023
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It's not, the differences in performance would depend on the particular load so your better off with the caliber that you have more availability where you live l
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:33 AM   #4024
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man some people are bored...
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:26 PM   #4025
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Id have gone with the boxes are more decomposable and environmentally friendly than 223 that has plastic or Styrofoam dividers . LOL
See, I like where you're going with that!

And yes Voron, I'm bored.
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