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Old 05-16-2018, 04:39 PM   #1
howiebearse
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Default bad experience with company

I bought a barrel some time ago for my M1960 polish milled build. I bought it direct from a Barrel company in New Hampshire. I have bought allot of barrels for builds and just went ahead to install it without measuring it as all my previous barrels from Arms of America and ak builder have been spot on. The barrel I bought from NH was because no one had one like the original conformation. First I found it slipped into my Tortort receiver loose. I never thought to check out the rest of the barrel. I knurled the barrel trunnion end and installed it pinned it and installed the rear sight base hand guard retainer and gas block. I had to drill the hole through the gas block into barrel. I then went to install front sight and wow surprise no bearing surface the front sight base had several thousanth's clearance and even a akm base was loose on it no way could I fit it. I emailed the company because it was passed hours and today received email back that they were sorry about it but they would not take any barrel back that had been altered and was not as shipped. Also you have to pay return fee and restock fee. They would refund shipping if I bought a new barrel. This is my fault for not checking it but it seems to me a company would indever to work with you to solve a problem of their making. The barrel was not cheap but now I have gained some lessons. Now after looking into the company through another business they said they dropped plans to buy a run of barrels after hearing their specs were horrible from other businesses.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:41 PM   #2
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probably the same outfit that provided Century with their 1960 barrels.

is it GM? if so, it is well known that their 1960 barrel is undersized
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:07 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstrobel View Post
probably the same outfit that provided Century with their 1960 barrels.

is it GM? if so, it is well known that their 1960 barrel is undersized
It was common knowledge but not to me. The manager now wants to work with me but what can they do send me another Century inspired barrel? Maybe I will send it back and see if they refund it. It was built for Century. Something that might interest you is I have an original barrel that was removed from a kit many years ago when these kits came in. Its bent so I did not use it but just discovered it slides into tortort receiver also and can you believe it the trunion was never drilled for a pin. It is drilled for all other pins and clearly proofed all over Polish. The M1960 has a boss that seats against the front of the receiver were these meant to be auto head spaced when installed.?
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Old 05-16-2018, 06:09 PM   #4
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well....its a bummer but i guess good lesson learned.
first thing, set out barrel components and or stub sections and receiver/trunnion w/ new barrel and start measuring them agains the barrel to install.
the chances of things being perfect in my experience is pretty low.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:37 PM   #5
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Never just assume things are the correct size. The tolerances on barrel journals and components leave too many opportunities for a incorrect fit. Sorry about your luck. AK builder has great barrels in stock and they stand behind them
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:36 PM   #6
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The Bulgariam 1960 barrel made by Green Mountain had and undersized chamber end journal. This was as spec'd by Century and nothing to do with Green Mountain. The Century milled receiver was not built to AK47 spec.

EDIT:. I do see you have the undersized chamber journal GM barrel. I misread your first post and skimmed past the part after the pinning and mounting and read the problem in the FSB fitment.

Time to start over.

Last edited by AKBLUE; 05-17-2018 at 09:36 AM. Reason: corrected the barrel type
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:48 PM   #7
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Hey Blue do you know if the GM RPK barrels they have in stock (non crome lined) are the 1st gen which apparently had issues? I read somewhere that RForbus was able to help get the barrels correctly turned. I also some some other vendor selling what they advertised as GM “Gen 2” RPK barrels and wondered if those are then the fixed barrels.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:53 PM   #8
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AFAIK they are corrected now from GM. Robert may have better intel on that issue.

But I would go with AKBuilder and pick the type you want there. Unless they are sold out.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:10 PM   #9
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Thanks
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:07 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Vive liberatum 76 View Post
Hey Blue do you know if the GM RPK barrels they have in stock (non crome lined) are the 1st gen which apparently had issues? I read somewhere that RForbus was able to help get the barrels correctly turned. I also some some other vendor selling what they advertised as GM Gen 2 RPK barrels and wondered if those are then the fixed barrels.
Yeah, I can speak to this.

Unless Green Mountain scrapped all their off-specification M1964 RPK barrels then the ones they sell are probably not correct - not worth the risk unless one can get a free return. They had one salesman, Dennis Paladino, who was listening and when he passed away I dropped the issue. I fixed several of them - expensive fix.

I did recently work with Arms of America and the ones they sell (and made by Green Mountain, I believe) are correct.
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Old 05-17-2018, 08:12 AM   #11
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Let me explain the problem. The chamber end was a slip fit into the tortort receiver. The front sight area has no built up surface for the sight The threads at muzzle are higher than the barrel dimension. A milled front sight has a huge gap when slipped on and a akm front sight also has a gap when slipped on. There is no way to sleeve it as a repair where the threads are higher you would not be able to sleeve it. I did fix the chamber end by knurling it. This is for an original M1960 Polish grenade launching model It uses the milled barrel with the chamber end having a bearing surface that comes up against the front of the receiver and if it is not at head space you have to mill the rear till it goes in to head space. The only place making this barrel is GM unfortunately they are wrong as they can be. The ak builder is not made for the M1960 Polish and has a akm rear handguard retainer set up not a milled type. I tried to upload photos but no go as usual.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:17 AM   #12
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I have the same as you
Milled polish kit
Tortort receiver
I ordered the AK builder milled press pin barrel ..... iv not assembled yet but everything is the correct size.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
Let me explain the problem. The chamber end was a slip fit into the tortort receiver. The front sight area has no built up surface for the sight The threads at muzzle are higher than the barrel dimension. A milled front sight has a huge gap when slipped on and a akm front sight also has a gap when slipped on. There is no way to sleeve it as a repair where the threads are higher you would not be able to sleeve it. I did fix the chamber end by knurling it. This is for an original M1960 Polish grenade launching model It uses the milled barrel with the chamber end having a bearing surface that comes up against the front of the receiver and if it is not at head space you have to mill the rear till it goes in to head space. The only place making this barrel is GM unfortunately they are wrong as they can be. The ak builder is not made for the M1960 Polish and has a akm rear handguard retainer set up not a milled type. I tried to upload photos but no go as usual.
OK., Sorry but I misread your first post and you do have the GM undersized chamber journal.
When you stated you installed and pinned it i skim read to the problem at the FSB.
Not sure how you were even able to knurl it enough for a good interference fit. The GM barrels are known to be very undersized.
Time to pull it and start over with a new barrel.
The best choice is a K- VAR barrel that is Bulgarian AK47 pattern in all journals.
This barrel>>

http://www.k-var.com/barrel-762x39mm...-hammer-forged

I'll edit my earlier post.

Last edited by AKBLUE; 05-17-2018 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:58 AM   #14
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I know the barrel. I have one. Its press and pin and has flange like threaded barrels to "look the part" of threaded barrel.
Trunnion journal is not massively undersized (like the OTHER gm barrel this guys are thinking of), rsb is fine, hg fine,GB fine, fsb. ..they goofed and barrel diameter for threading is turned all way back to rear of what would be fsb journal.
Barrel is chrome lined with a parkish finish huh. This was from a batch of blem barrels(how I bought mine and cheap)
My Trunnion journal is fine and pressed into yugo milled stub. I chucked it in lath and moved rsb,hg,GB journals back a bit(setting back EVEN FURTHER yugo rsb and using m92 hgs with a m70 tube. Then just made a fsb journal where it does step up at front. Will thread back to it and chop and pin a flashhider. Will still accept bayo when complete.
Nice barrel, they just goofed the fsb journal and i salvaged it
Sounds like you found one of these.
Buy they press/pin akbuilder barrel.
If you want the "flange" and press/pin...buy the akbuilder threaded type 3 barrel and turn the threads off to 23mm.
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
Let me explain the problem. The chamber end was a slip fit into the tortort receiver. The front sight area has no built up surface for the sight The threads at muzzle are higher than the barrel dimension. A milled front sight has a huge gap when slipped on and a akm front sight also has a gap when slipped on. There is no way to sleeve it as a repair where the threads are higher you would not be able to sleeve it. I did fix the chamber end by knurling it. This is for an original M1960 Polish grenade launching model It uses the milled barrel with the chamber end having a bearing surface that comes up against the front of the receiver and if it is not at head space you have to mill the rear till it goes in to head space. The only place making this barrel is GM unfortunately they are wrong as they can be. The ak builder is not made for the M1960 Polish and has a akm rear handguard retainer set up not a milled type. I tried to upload photos but no go as usual.
Btw, you do not "need" the flange to build that rifle.
Any milled profile barrel will work.
That flange on a press/pin barrel was to simulate the look before threaded barrels and receivers was a thing
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Old 05-17-2018, 10:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rforbus View Post
Yeah, I can speak to this.

Unless Green Mountain scrapped all their off-specification M1964 RPK barrels then the ones they sell are probably not correct - not worth the risk unless one can get a free return. They had one salesman, Dennis Paladino, who was listening and when he passed away I dropped the issue. I fixed several of them - expensive fix.

I did recently work with Arms of America and the ones they sell (and made by Green Mountain, I believe) are correct.
Thanks Robert. I ask because I picked up one these from GM a while back for a kit build down the road. Im afraid its going to have whatever problems they originally had. Honestly Im not even sure what was wrong with the barrels only that there was something off and you were involved in trying to fix them.

When I saw some vendor (forget who atm but maybe AoA) advertised the GM Gen II barrel it made me think there were still the messed up ones floating around.

If GM knows about whatever the issues are you would think they would at least disclose this info.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:13 PM   #17
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Well all is well except the orig style barrel is not available. I understand that AK Builder has a barrel that style but threaded but the hand guard retainer is milled like a akm not right. I may use a standard type Milled barrel to complete the build but these ak rifles I build are supposed to be clone of original. GM barrel company is refunding me my purchase price and sending me a return label. I offered my original barrel to them to copy if they want to produce an accurate barrel to sell to those guys with the kits. The company did whats right for me and I am happy but wish these barrels could be made for guys with milled kits. I sent photos to RForbus maybe he can post the photos here and you will see the problem.
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Old 05-17-2018, 01:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howiebearse View Post
Well all is well except the orig style barrel is not available. I understand that AK Builder has a barrel that style but threaded but the hand guard retainer is milled like a akm not right. I may use a standard type Milled barrel to complete the build but these ak rifles I build are supposed to be clone of original. GM barrel company is refunding me my purchase price and sending me a return label. I offered my original barrel to them to copy if they want to produce an accurate barrel to sell to those guys with the kits. The company did whats right for me and I am happy but wish these barrels could be made for guys with milled kits. I sent photos to RForbus maybe he can post the photos here and you will see the problem.
Am I missing something!?

Both the chrome lined ak builder barrels(press with no flange, threaded with flange) are both in stock and neither have ANY handguard cuts done.

Dude,get the threaded flanged barrel and turn threads of while turning flange to set headspace,done.
And maybe change thread title..

Heres the link
https://ak-builder.com/index.php?dis...oduct_id=30948

No hg slots (top or akm style sides) can be done till after headspace on a threaded barrel

And since "ones you build suppose to be clone"...the polish kbk gn60 grenade launching type 3 ak47 uses a threaded barrel....you need another tortort..

There's zero need for a flange on a press barrel, I can only assume years back ppl wanted more accurate "clone" so the flange was added for the "look", however it can't be seen when built but that cross pin can, so again, only assume guys were welding over and milling flush? To hide the pin and look threaded..

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Old 05-17-2018, 02:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Vive liberatum 76 View Post
Thanks Robert. I ask because I picked up one these from GM a while back for a kit build down the road. Im afraid its going to have whatever problems they originally had. Honestly Im not even sure what was wrong with the barrels only that there was something off and you were involved in trying to fix them.

When I saw some vendor (forget who atm but maybe AoA) advertised the GM Gen II barrel it made me think there were still the messed up ones floating around.

If GM knows about whatever the issues are you would think they would at least disclose this info.
Going back several years, oh, they "know" and "know" it is not possible for them to make a mistake.

The problem is the journal for the rear sight - it is "missing". It is not much larger than the section close to it - about 0,5mm on the diameter. It is too large a difference to merely knurl and requires building up or sleeving - I am not fond of the latter since a hard inference fit must be made with the rear sight. Once pinned of course nothing moves.

You could ask them to verify the diameter of the rear sight journal - it should be nominal diameter 22,5mm (0.886") and the unfinished section next to it is nominal diameter 22,0mm (0.866").
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:44 PM   #20
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I got interested to see what I had so I dug it up.

I’m surprised by the whole profile a bit honestly but I’ve not worked with this type barrel before. There’s less of a RSB journal and more of a large section. In any case the first pic is back towards the trunnion journal and the second pic is off the journal.

But I just used a cheap micrometer.







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Old 05-17-2018, 04:11 PM   #21
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^Where you see 22,25 you should see 22,5mm plus. That is the location of the problem.^

Someone at Green Mountain made a mistake long ago and it was never corrected. We did salvage some of these barrels to become Tabuk-S units.

Howie's problem is that severely off-specification "1960 Polish" mimic made for Century Arms' off-specification milled frame of yore. The fact that they still have them states to me that for whatever reason Green Mountain made a tremendous overrun and are stuck with them - they are not good for anything.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:24 PM   #22
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I went and ordered a barrel from AOA where I do most all my business. After thinking about my original barrel one thing did not jive with it. It is Polish and proofed but there is no barrel pin relief. So It would seem my barrel had been threaded originally and someone turned it down but maybe they discovered what I found that it was bent or they tried to install it and bent it? I thought it came with my kit when I bought it before the great barrel cut up begain. I appreciate all the replies and thanks for the insight Learning all the time and open mind is a must!!!
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rforbus View Post
^Where you see 22,25 you should see 22,5mm plus. That is the location of the problem.^

Someone at Green Mountain made a mistake long ago and it was never corrected. We did salvage some of these barrels to become Tabuk-S units.

Howie's problem is that severely off-specification "1960 Polish" mimic made for Century Arms' off-specification milled frame of yore. The fact that they still have them states to me that for whatever reason Green Mountain made a tremendous overrun and are stuck with them - they are not good for anything.
Yup
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:03 PM   #24
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put the barrel back in the box, shit in it, tape box shut, and send it back to the company. ak builder barrels are always tits.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:42 PM   #25
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The K-VAR barrel is CLHF AK47 pattern. Press and pin and good to go.
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