Up to 60% Off Daily Deal Products. Palmetto State Armory
The Ultimate Gun Belt, US Made, Lifetime Warranty, Free Shipping. Shop Now.
Gorilla Ammo Free Shipping when you order 10 Boxes or more.
Shop all the current Lone Wolf closeouts here

Go Back   The AK Files Forums > General Forums > General Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-22-2018, 04:39 AM   #106
cz-75a
Proudly <Censored>
 
cz-75a's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 3165
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ESAD
Posts: 1,938
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stalker1 View Post
Where does the Brethren church fit in here?
The good folks dress Amish to my unknowing self.
I truly do not understand the cultural differences.
They believe in adult baptism, but come from a different theological origin about a century later than Mennonites and Amish (who are a result of an internal schism), albeit one that makes their beliefs very similar, including pacifism, but with no restrictions on technology. My grandmother and her family were Dunkers/ Schwarzenau Brethren and of Swiss-German heritage that goes back over five hundred years straight through to Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana.

Last edited by cz-75a; 07-22-2018 at 04:51 AM.
cz-75a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 07:40 AM   #107
Cold_Storage
Curio & Relic
 
Cold_Storage's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 162009
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 2,237
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwag74 View Post
So to sum up that long winded post, they aren't terrible neighbors but they aren't the perfect angels that you might think they'd be if you'd never lived around them.
Pretty much. I grew up near a large Amish population. Nice folks in passing, but yeah, if you have to do direct dealings or live next door the experience can be less than ideal.

They are good craftsman but overrated IMO. I'm sure some are better than others. Seems the people that rave about them the most are suburbanites that are so used to pressed wood, pre-made WalMart crap that anything remotely resembling "old school" quality impresses them. Price-wise they are usually good, and add that to "ok" quality and it's good enough for most people.

The glory hole story, if true, is disturbing. I don't think even in my spry teen years I could have performed under those circumstances. You're basically raping a girl that is under a sheet like a corpse, while her father stands outside the door? No thanks, too creepy, and that's coming from someone who likes creepy stuff. Plus the girl could be 13 years old who knows? Gross.
Cold_Storage is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 08:06 AM   #108
Cold_Storage
Curio & Relic
 
Cold_Storage's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 162009
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Somewhere out there
Posts: 2,237
Default

...it is also true there is a whole cottage industry out there of misleading "Amish Craftsmen" companies. A regular, non-Amish guy starts, say, a window company and hires Amish labor. He then tries to market his company as "Amish Craftsmen" even though it's just a bunch of bearded guys he drives around in a van who install mass produced vinyl windows. My parents had some windows done by a company like this. They did a good job but there was nothing special about it.
Cold_Storage is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 08:32 AM   #109
jimboe
Member
 
AKaholic #: 188189
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
I hear that they don't wear underwear.
Line them up and bend them over the picnic bench. Oh YEAH!

Except for the little one in the lime green of course.
jimboe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 09:23 AM   #110
wil
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 158469
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: tx
Posts: 568
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deplorable View Post
I hate scavengers. Amish would be locked up and fined heavily if they tried to run roughshod over game laws and poached on some ranch hear in Texas.

They don't put up with that crap here. Get caught hunting on a ranch and try and use the 'we're chasing a rabbit excuse' and they are going to see the judge.

Shoot a trophy class deer and they are going to spend a lot of money and time in jail, lose their guns and license and will be selling a lot of furniture for years to pay for it.

And Texans aren't going to sit by and watch horses neglected and abused under some 'beast of burden' bullshit.
correct..
wil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 10:46 AM   #111
HAL-9000
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 157339
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,942
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbay1951 View Post
We're getting a whole lot of Amish here in Lyon county and points east of here in the next 2-3 months. Seems they've moved out of N.Y. State due to interference in their daily lives by the Democrats. Can't really blame them in that regard. My older sister sold 40 acres of her land to 1 Amish guy, but she's hesitant to sell any more acres to Amish. Says she don't want to be driving her car thru horse manure on the Hwy.LOL I told her to be nice to their families and they will make her lots of Pies. Man I love Amish made food. But that's the extent of my knowledge about the Amish.
many in Iowa, good people. but the state hassled them a lot.
HAL-9000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 10:53 AM   #112
mojoracing
Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 144
Default

Me and my buddy always wanted to wrap my motorhome with "AMISH GIRLS GONE WILD"! They do this thing were they get to leave the community at I think 18 years old and go out into the world for a while before coming back and settling into the life. Figured we could get some of them to lift their shirts revealing utter-like breasts and maybe a peak down below at the 12 inch rats nest. Put it all on video and create an empire!
mojoracing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 10:59 AM   #113
SAVAGE11
Curio & Relic
 
SAVAGE11's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 158321
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Amish country
Posts: 13,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoracing View Post
Me and my buddy always wanted to wrap my motorhome with "AMISH GIRLS GONE WILD"! They do this thing were they get to leave the community at I think 18 years old and go out into the world for a while before coming back and settling into the life. Figured we could get some of them to lift their shirts revealing utter-like breasts and maybe a peak down below at the 12 inch rats nest. Put it all on video and create an empire!

Rumspringa
__________________

((DB)) #69 BaconBalls
SAVAGE11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 11:11 AM   #114
mojoracing
Member
 
mojoracing's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 196374
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: north
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cold_Storage View Post
Pretty much. I grew up near a large Amish population. Nice folks in passing, but yeah, if you have to do direct dealings or live next door the experience can be less than ideal.

They are good craftsman but overrated IMO. I'm sure some are better than others. Seems the people that rave about them the most are suburbanites that are so used to pressed wood, pre-made WalMart crap that anything remotely resembling "old school" quality impresses them. Price-wise they are usually good, and add that to "ok" quality and it's good enough for most people.

The glory hole story, if true, is disturbing. I don't think even in my spry teen years I could have performed under those circumstances. You're basically raping a girl that is under a sheet like a corpse, while her father stands outside the door? No thanks, too creepy, and that's coming from someone who likes creepy stuff. Plus the girl could be 13 years old who knows? Gross.
Thats what I was getting at, just too creepy. I can promise you it is true 100%, I trust my friend with my life. The other poster who said it was common in south west Wisconsin, coincidentally was correct. This happened their within 50 miles of Monroe. My friend told the story not to brag but to inform. I had recently began dealings with amish and it came up. As far as the checking account thing with mennonites, yes they can use some modern banking but the ones in that area when it came to property purchases used nothing but bags of cash. I think he mentioned that they had internal banking within the community such as elders lending to young families.
mojoracing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 11:19 AM   #115
ohlongarm
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 193447
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Killbuck Ohio
Posts: 1,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-9000 View Post
many in Iowa, good people. but the state hassled them a lot.
Could it be because they seldom pay taxes?running everything through the churchs tax exempt status.
ohlongarm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 03:41 PM   #116
virgil cole
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 102797
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: two egg
Posts: 5,407
Default

I just refuse to trust religious fanatics , in any conceivable way . It's just too easy for them to fall back on " it says so in the bible " . Fuck that !
virgil cole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 03:45 PM   #117
nalioth
Devil's Advocate & Moderator
 
nalioth's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 5678
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 41,806
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgil cole View Post
I just refuse to trust religious fanatics , in any conceivable way . It's just too easy for them to fall back on " it says so in the bible " . Fuck that !
"Fanatics"?

When's the last time you saw an Amish person pushing their religion on the non-Amish?



Wow.

Some of you guys . . . .
nalioth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 04:09 PM   #118
Flashy
Banned
 
AKaholic #: 168764
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pennsyltucky PA somewhere between communist CA and NY
Posts: 4,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
"Fanatics"?

When's the last time you saw an Amish person pushing their religion on the non-Amish?



Wow.

Some of you guys . . . .
The definition of fanatic has nothing to do with pushing their thoughts on someone else, a fanatic is someone who is obsessed with something
Flashy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 04:13 PM   #119
nalioth
Devil's Advocate & Moderator
 
nalioth's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 5678
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 41,806
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
The definition of fanatic has nothing to do with pushing their thoughts on someone else, a fanatic is someone who is obsessed with something
. . . which would include everyone who goes to church on Sunday.
nalioth is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 04:17 PM   #120
Flashy
Banned
 
AKaholic #: 168764
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Pennsyltucky PA somewhere between communist CA and NY
Posts: 4,548
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
. . . which would include everyone who goes to church on Sunday.
That says something, maybe step away from the files for a day or two Nails, a big pic never hurt anybody unless they were Amish of course.
Flashy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 08:55 PM   #121
Rforbus
Forum Bosche
Vendor
 
Rforbus's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 73701
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: U.S.A., Tennessee, Robertson County
Posts: 10,109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAVAGE11 View Post
Rumspringa
Related to the German tradition of the passage into adulthood - at the age of fifteen (15) years.
__________________
Best Regards,
Robert Forbus

Ing. Robert Forbus, International
Tools & Solutions For The Safe Disassembly & Assembly Of Your Kalashnikova Variant
Email - Robert.Forbus@robertforbus.com
Please do not use the PM system here to contact me!
Website - https://www.robertforbus.com

Tennessee Firearms Association member
Gun Owners of America member
N̶R̶A̶ ̶M̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ (that's right - those mofos sold us out)
Patriot Guard Rider

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge...Stupidity is a commitment to ignorance. The first is easily remedied with facts...The second cannot be fixed...
Rforbus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 09:32 PM   #122
SAVAGE11
Curio & Relic
 
SAVAGE11's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 158321
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Amish country
Posts: 13,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rforbus View Post
Related to the German tradition of the passage into adulthood - at the age of fifteen (15) years.
Very interesting piece of history.
__________________

((DB)) #69 BaconBalls
SAVAGE11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 09:37 PM   #123
SAVAGE11
Curio & Relic
 
SAVAGE11's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 158321
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Amish country
Posts: 13,148
Default

Im sure the Amish culture has its faults or bad characters as any other group in America. Ive never had any issues with them, many live in my AO. The sects around here maybe way different than secs in other parts of the country. A few secs got into it with each other and went on a beard cutting fiasco, but that was among them.
__________________

((DB)) #69 BaconBalls
SAVAGE11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2018, 11:04 PM   #124
Rforbus
Forum Bosche
Vendor
 
Rforbus's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 73701
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: U.S.A., Tennessee, Robertson County
Posts: 10,109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAVAGE11 View Post
Very interesting piece of history.
It is still practiced today in Germany by families who follow traditional custom. It is at this point the young person is an adult by custom and is addressed in the formal "Sie" instead of the familiar "Du". Another complexity of the German language that must be remembered.
__________________
Best Regards,
Robert Forbus

Ing. Robert Forbus, International
Tools & Solutions For The Safe Disassembly & Assembly Of Your Kalashnikova Variant
Email - Robert.Forbus@robertforbus.com
Please do not use the PM system here to contact me!
Website - https://www.robertforbus.com

Tennessee Firearms Association member
Gun Owners of America member
N̶R̶A̶ ̶M̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ (that's right - those mofos sold us out)
Patriot Guard Rider

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge...Stupidity is a commitment to ignorance. The first is easily remedied with facts...The second cannot be fixed...
Rforbus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 01:16 AM   #125
akenthusiast1
Senior Member
 
akenthusiast1's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183368
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Superior, WI
Posts: 995
Default

Mid state WI is loaded, medford and wausau is when the line starts with them. But it appears to be none north of t them, non existent and I can live with that.
akenthusiast1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 01:22 PM   #126
bondmen
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 86277
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Near The Big Muddy
Posts: 8,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by virgil cole View Post
I just refuse to trust religious fanatics , in any conceivable way . It's just too easy for them to fall back on " it says so in the bible " . Fuck that !
Of course there are hundreds of man made religions in the world today and most of them have little if anything to do with the Creator God or His Son Jesus. They are diversions from the truth.

Religion is man reaching up to a god or gods seeking or hoping approval for his lifestyle.
bondmen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 04:03 PM   #127
robertmbowman
Member
Vendor
 
AKaholic #: 180147
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Hawthorne, Florida
Posts: 380
Default

My grossfather's family was Mennonite, one of the first families in Lebanon Valley PA.
Original land grant of 600 acres from William Penn.

My family tree is a "stick," [as my wife has] documented 4 times first cousins married, and those that did not marry their direct family married [according to the plat map] the first available women living next to them.

Inbreeding comes in handy when I do something stupid, not my fault, bad genes.

We visited my alta family near Worms Deutschland, still Mennonites, but as modern as any Catholic or Lutheran, could not tell the difference.
Nothing like the [slow?] American Mennonites.

Many of my Mennonites relatives were killed in both WWI & II, forced into the army of both the French and the German armies, who-ever occupied the village at the time.
No religious exemption was given, "enlist" or shot dead on the spot.

Went to a 3 room school hause with them, grades 1-2 in one room, 3-4, 5-6 in another.
Never had a problem with them, found out later that most of them were shirt-tail relatives.
bob
robertmbowman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 04:55 PM   #128
Browning Hi Power
Veteran Member
 
Browning Hi Power's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 191931
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: USA
Posts: 1,318
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabes0623 View Post
The teenagers rig up stereo systems with car batteries for their buggies. And I mean serious shake your window, wake you up in the middle of the night stereo systems. And since they’re going 2 mph not 60 like cars you have to hear it for a long ass time.
LOL this thread delivers.

Visiting Amish country is on my to do list now.
Browning Hi Power is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:37 PM   #129
rgjerkson
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 159687
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 699
Default

it's becoming more common that they get busted for drug and sex trafficking in Wisconsin and Minnesota. But still less than your common folk
rgjerkson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 06:43 PM   #130
SAVAGE11
Curio & Relic
 
SAVAGE11's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 158321
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Amish country
Posts: 13,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rforbus View Post
It is still practiced today in Germany by families who follow traditional custom. It is at this point the young person is an adult by custom and is addressed in the formal "Sie" instead of the familiar "Du". Another complexity of the German language that must be remembered.
They both mean "you" right?
__________________

((DB)) #69 BaconBalls
SAVAGE11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 07:22 PM   #131
Steelmonkey
Veteran Member
Bronze Contributor
 
Steelmonkey's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 161815
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: G-Ville, NV. - But mostly everywhere else
Posts: 1,001
Default

I don't know much about 'em but I know these two Amish Mafia guys were out looking for knees to cap and arms to break.
And also clearly getting ready to exceed the posted speed limit.



Steelmonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 08:29 PM   #132
Rforbus
Forum Bosche
Vendor
 
Rforbus's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 73701
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: U.S.A., Tennessee, Robertson County
Posts: 10,109
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAVAGE11 View Post
They both mean "you" right?
Yes, and no .

"Du" is always "you". "Sie" is "you" when speaking to a stranger, i.e. or anyone who has not given their permission to address them as "Du".

And of course "Sie" can mean "she" or "they" depending how it is used in a statement. It is one of those intricacies of the German language. Whenever in doubt, use "Sie".

I see both Amish and Mennonites here - many more if I cross the Kentucky State line and go just a few miles north. Other than English the adults speak a variant of Low German that is difficult for me to comprehend - very different language.
__________________
Best Regards,
Robert Forbus

Ing. Robert Forbus, International
Tools & Solutions For The Safe Disassembly & Assembly Of Your Kalashnikova Variant
Email - Robert.Forbus@robertforbus.com
Please do not use the PM system here to contact me!
Website - https://www.robertforbus.com

Tennessee Firearms Association member
Gun Owners of America member
N̶R̶A̶ ̶M̶e̶m̶b̶e̶r̶ (that's right - those mofos sold us out)
Patriot Guard Rider

Ignorance is the absence of knowledge...Stupidity is a commitment to ignorance. The first is easily remedied with facts...The second cannot be fixed...
Rforbus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2018, 08:35 PM   #133
SAVAGE11
Curio & Relic
 
SAVAGE11's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 158321
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Amish country
Posts: 13,148
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rforbus View Post
Yes, and no .

"Du" is always "you". "Sie" is "you" when speaking to a stranger, i.e. or anyone who has not given their permission to address them as "Du".

And of course "Sie" can mean "she" or "they" depending how it is used in a statement. It is one of those intricacies of the German language. Whenever in doubt, use "Sie".
Thanks for the German lesson Rforbus. Ive always liked the way German is spoken and sounds. Its a kickass language. The language of war so to speak.
__________________

((DB)) #69 BaconBalls
SAVAGE11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 06:24 AM   #134
ThirdWatcher
Member
 
AKaholic #: 45387
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 310
Default

I donít know any Amish and I believe in respecting other peopleís beliefs. Iím a Christian who tries to keep the scourge of hypocrisy to a minimum (Iím still trying to remove the log from my eye). Iím not a lover of rules but some rules make a lot of sense to me (like the conservation of wild game, avoiding incestious relationships, paying taxes, not cheating others, etc).

From what Iíve seen on TV, the Amish shun those that leave the subculture. Not consistent with my belief system.

The other thing that would offend me is being called ďEnglishĒ. My family moved to England during the Norman Conquest and moved on to America over 350 years ago. Many of us have served (and some are still serving) in the US Military (mostly Army, some Navy). We consider ourselves to be Americans.
ThirdWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 08:44 AM   #135
esh21167
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 170974
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 6,176
Default

The only time Amish deal with non-Amish is when they have an opportunity to make money. Might seem like they're being neighborly, but they always have that idea in their minds.
esh21167 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 06:08 PM   #136
SAVAGE11
Curio & Relic
 
SAVAGE11's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 158321
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Amish country
Posts: 13,148
Default

Why the Amish call us English can be found in this link.

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-Amish-p...g-to-Americans
__________________

((DB)) #69 BaconBalls
SAVAGE11 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 06:17 PM   #137
Obeast44
Ready and Waiting
 
AKaholic #: 168098
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Smalltown, Kentucky
Posts: 1,625
Default

Pros:
Quiet. Friendly. Well kept homes. Neighborly.

Cons:
Prepare to smell body odor. They are cheap. They covet money above all else. Watch/Warn your daughters.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanMor View Post
These DB pissing contests amuse me greatly. Good men flailing at each other like old women fighting over extra space on the clothes line for their bloomers to hang.
It's fucking idiotic. Everyone calling into question each other's character over the most trivial of things. It's like the fucking Special Olympics locker room snapping retarded asses with towels.
Obeast44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 06:52 PM   #138
bill3542
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
bill3542's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 64
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Indiana Co.PA
Posts: 4,321
Default

I've heard the word ( Englishman ) many times... sometimes I'll tell them that I'm probably more Swiss and German than they are.
__________________
oh bother... said Pooh as the tripwire clicked on the claymore mine.
bill3542 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 07:16 PM   #139
hebie82
She wants the D...onuts
Bronze Contributor
 
hebie82's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 193869
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Seventh Circle of Hell
Posts: 1,524
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obeast44 View Post
Pros:
Quiet. Friendly. Well kept homes. Neighborly.

Cons:
Prepare to smell body odor. They are cheap. They covet money above all else. Watch/Warn your daughters.

Again, I can only speak on my limited knowledge of Mennonites but I do believe this to be true. Those damn Mennonites do like us Englishwomen
__________________
I hope to arrive to my death late, in love and a little drunk.
Aut cum scuto, aut in scuto.
Non ducor, duco.
hebie82 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2018, 07:42 PM   #140
LEUVUK
Senior Member
 
LEUVUK's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 162897
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 840
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MI redneck View Post
...
They are humans just like you, me and everyone else. Good, bad and in between to be found in all.
This.
__________________
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned. PA Constitution, Art. 1 ß 21

God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the Gift of God? - Thomas Jefferson
LEUVUK is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles