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Old 08-11-2018, 10:53 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
I'm glad it works for you and you find historical value in it.

If people are wanting to buy a PSL then they are wanting to buy a PSL. If you're wanting supreme accuracy there are better more cost effective firearms to get into than the AK types.(And I'm an AK fanboy all the way.. Just stating the facts since we're going to go down the cheaper n better road).
True but we can both agree that 2 k is an outrageous price and you have to be a serious collector to be a buyer at that price. Yes you can get a psa ar10 and shoot groups way more accurately than any Ak type rifle , but those wanting an ak type rifle have better options than a 2k psl.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:27 PM   #72
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$2k for a terribly inaccurate wannabe dragunov? people are funny. a VEPR in 308 or x54r is much better option if you want an AK-pattern "DMR" (although even VEPRs have shit accuracy for that role)

I'd be very surprised if these things moved at 2k. I bet they will be around $1k after gathering some dust.

There is a reason the Russians, who invented the AK in case you forgot, don't use AK-pattern rifles for DMRs. The only reason the Romanians did is because they were too cheap to pay up to get the Soviet design for the Dragunov.

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Old 08-12-2018, 05:42 AM   #73
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They were not even going for $2000 at gun shows, post-Sandy Hook.
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:37 AM   #74
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i foresee us made barrels.
i bought mine for $1000 from randy w210838. he built it on a nodak with a 20" heavy under the handguard barrel and the rhineland furniture (with a new posp). i feel fortunate to have gotten that deal nowadays.
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:17 AM   #75
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Lol, I remember deciding to pass when thry to be $700. I'm good on a $2k PSL.
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:01 AM   #76
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These like to jam. I know someone is going to say theirs doesn't and they have shot 10,957 rounds without a single malfunction. The three I have shot over the years, none of them mine, all had feeding problems.
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:45 AM   #77
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Never had feeding problems from the several PSL's I own. They are magazine particular and part of the reason the mags are serialized to the firearm IMHO. No big deal.
But most of the mags became mixed from the matching firearm.

The PSL has joined the other firearms that have gained high dollar aka collector value pricing.

Happens often enough.., pre ban Chinese and Mitchell AK's and Kassnar Hungarians and Steyr Maadi's, and the AES10B Romanian RPK's, Chinese and Russian SVD's.

All part of the AK action firearm arena.
For those who got in early it is good news. For those who were too young or too unwilling., it is the "too late" or "coulda, woulda, shoulda" song n' dance.
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:54 AM   #78
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Are yours "off the shelf" examples? This is not new news. Look here ---

https://www.google.com/search?source....0.INJNRdCCitE
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:56 AM   #79
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Never had feeding problems from the several PSL's I own. They are magazine particular and part of the reason the mags are serialized to the firearm IMHO. No big deal.
But most of the mags became mixed from the matching firearm.

The PSL has joined the other firearms that have gained high dollar aka collector value pricing.

Happens often enough.., pre ban Chinese and Mitchell AK's and Kassnar Hungarians and Steyr Maadi's, and the AES10B Romanian RPK's, Chinese and Russian SVD's.

All part of the AK action firearm arena.
For those who got in early it is good news. For those who were too young or too unwilling., it is the "too late" or "coulda, woulda, shoulda" song n' dance.
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Are yours "off the shelf" examples?
See post # 50.
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:58 AM   #80
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I read post 50.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:04 AM   #81
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Then you know the answer to your question.
As noted they are magazine sensitive., but that is resolved with a bit of testing.

Last edited by AKBLUE; 08-12-2018 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:36 AM   #82
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Nice rifles Blue. Thanks for sharing those.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:01 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshut View Post
These like to jam. I know someone is going to say theirs doesn't and they have shot 10,957 rounds without a single malfunction. The three I have shot over the years, none of them mine, all had feeding problems.
+1

My PSL did the same thing with 3 different mags, one of the reasons it's gone. If others have PSL's that run well that's fine, the one I had did not
and that's all that counts with me. By contrast my Yugo M76 has never jammed once, it's also more accurate. The only reason I even purchased
the PSL to begin with was to shoot off some of the cheap 7.62X54r ammo I had sitting around.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:06 AM   #84
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Thanks., they were fun builds and shooters. The milled PSL hybrid does stumble on occasion and required mag adjustment based on the geometry of the M76 receiver and magazine lock up angle. I fixed it 95% but still needs a bit more tweaking. Just have not had it to the range lately. Been shooting other stuff.

Rimmed cartridges are not as commonly use in semi or full auto firearms. The military 54r and .303 are two exceptions. They can be sensitive to feeding. Even in a Mosin Nagant bolt action., there is a sequence of cartridge rims to the adjacent cartridge.
A PSL feed is not as dead solid as 7.62x39.., but a PSL is quite capable of reliable feed in my experience.

The 5.56 in AK's has some feed issues based on .223 vs 5.56 ammo, chamber sizes and the various types of commercial ammunition and the dissimilar magazines in 5.56 vs the pretty much standard in 7.62 etc.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:36 PM   #85
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Those are very nice rifles AKBlue
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:57 PM   #86
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Then you know the answer to your question.
As noted they are magazine sensitive., but that is resolved with a bit of testing.
The magazine design appears to have a slight flaw in it.. Likely a result of not having computer modeling, the designers could not see the cause effect of the aspects of the magazine.
The design is impressive considering its age, but ultimately the choice they made with magazine overall length and receiver width tied the rifle to the magazine design it currently has which will always be a little finicky.

The method of magazine construction is idiotic... Like it was designed by an engineer that got sadistic pleasure from the pain and frustration of factory workers.. The parts stack in the worst possible way, they add variation rather than remove it.

54R ammo was basically Obsolete before WW1 since 8MM mauser was developed in 1903 by germany, and the US had adopted not one but two rimless cartridges, the .30-03 and then the .30-06, by the end of WW1 it was clear the direction of weapons was box magazine light machine guns.
54R ammo was clearly obsolete by WW2, and was a complete dinosaur in 1958 when the SVD was being designed... Then in 1974 the romanians decided to make their own rifle chambered for what should have been a historic cartridge of the great war.... Morons!!!
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Old 08-12-2018, 05:44 PM   #87
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Didn't need a PSL when they were cheap and I sure don't need one now. 2K is ridiculous.
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:31 PM   #88
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The magazine design appears to have a slight flaw in it.. Likely a result of not having computer modeling, the designers could not see the cause effect of the aspects of the magazine.
The design is impressive considering its age, but ultimately the choice they made with magazine overall length and receiver width tied the rifle to the magazine design it currently has which will always be a little finicky.

The method of magazine construction is idiotic... Like it was designed by an engineer that got sadistic pleasure from the pain and frustration of factory workers.. The parts stack in the worst possible way, they add variation rather than remove it.

54R ammo was basically Obsolete before WW1 since 8MM mauser was developed in 1903 by germany, and the US had adopted not one but two rimless cartridges, the .30-03 and then the .30-06, by the end of WW1 it was clear the direction of weapons was box magazine light machine guns.
54R ammo was clearly obsolete by WW2, and was a complete dinosaur in 1958 when the SVD was being designed... Then in 1974 the romanians decided to make their own rifle chambered for what should have been a historic cartridge of the great war.... Morons!!!
54r seemed to serve the Russians well enough in two World Wars and the Finns and other countries in post WWII. 10's of millions of Moson Nagants and the PKM machi egun and the SVD and PSL.
The firearms are still used in conflicts today.
Obsolete maybe but still hunting, sport shooting and used in conflicts all over the glode.
Fun to shoot and generally as accurate as other full power cartridges.
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:13 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csspecs View Post
The magazine design appears to have a slight flaw in it.. Likely a result of not having computer modeling, the designers could not see the cause effect of the aspects of the magazine.
The design is impressive considering its age, but ultimately the choice they made with magazine overall length and receiver width tied the rifle to the magazine design it currently has which will always be a little finicky.

The method of magazine construction is idiotic... Like it was designed by an engineer that got sadistic pleasure from the pain and frustration of factory workers.. The parts stack in the worst possible way, they add variation rather than remove it.

54R ammo was basically Obsolete before WW1 since 8MM mauser was developed in 1903 by germany, and the US had adopted not one but two rimless cartridges, the .30-03 and then the .30-06, by the end of WW1 it was clear the direction of weapons was box magazine light machine guns.
54R ammo was clearly obsolete by WW2, and was a complete dinosaur in 1958 when the SVD was being designed... Then in 1974 the romanians decided to make their own rifle chambered for what should have been a historic cartridge of the great war.... Morons!!!




I actually agree with most of your thoughts, however Romania was part of the Warsaw Pact and had to have weapons chambered with Russian cartridges, they had no choice in the matter.
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:42 PM   #90
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theres enough people with deep pockets and willing to buy rare and unusual stuff.
I posted a few years back, a PSL is like a 70 ss454 chevelle, theres plenty of other cars that run faster, stops better, handles better and gets better mileage, but people will still pay stupid money for a 70 chevelle. most guys wont but the sellers aren't targeting us. jim
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Old 08-12-2018, 10:51 PM   #91
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theres enough people with deep pockets and willing to buy rare and unusual stuff.
I posted a few years back, a PSL is like a 70 ss454 chevelle, theres plenty of other cars that run faster, stops better, handles better and gets better mileage, but people will still pay stupid money for a 70 chevelle. most guys wont but the sellers aren't targeting us. jim
This guy gets it.
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:41 PM   #92
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helps that I have a 70 chevelle and 3 psl's. but I bought when things were ALOT cheaper. jim
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:58 PM   #93
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If only I'd have known the $700 I paid for mine would turn into $1400+, not to mention the jump in mags. Sold mine for what I paid. Then again, I did make bank on buying back my ab2 that I sold during the Obama years.

I scratched the itch though, basically got bored with it. For what it is, $2k is nuts.
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Old 08-12-2018, 11:58 PM   #94
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I didn’t like mine when I had it. I don’t like it at $2k. However, if I made more money than I do now I’d still have gotten one just to get one. Probably to give to a parent as a gift.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:45 AM   #95
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Isn't that pencil barrel vibratory after a few rounds?

And will it's little bayonet lug be neutered?

Then there is the matter of the magazines? How will they be individually priced?

'tis great to see new merchandise from old Cold War armories/factories coming our way!
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:08 AM   #96
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Are these new manufactured from Cugir or were these something CAI has been sitting on for years?
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:43 AM   #97
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Are these new manufactured from Cugir or were these something CAI has been sitting on for years?
From what I’m reading this is a new shipment, meaning import

Atlantic, correct me if I’m wrong
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Old 08-13-2018, 08:46 AM   #98
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Are these new manufactured from Cugir or were these something CAI has been sitting on for years?
These are coming in fresh. Unsure if they're built on original military parts kits or new made, we'll have to wait and see.
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Old 08-13-2018, 06:53 PM   #99
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I remember not too many years ago complaining about NDM-86 rifles being too much at $2500. Passed up a nice 7.62x54r example for $2700 at a local gun show. Now look at them.

I could see the PSL54C rifles going higher than $2k in a few years if they stop importing. Should they cost that much? Hell no, but we've all seen what happens to prices for something neat that isn't imported anymore. I'd much rather spend $2k on a PSL than $2500+ on a Polytech Legend! The PSLs shoot better and are closer to their original military format.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:08 PM   #100
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I'd much rather spend $2k on a PSL than $2500+ on a Polytech Legend! The PSLs shoot better and are closer to their original military format.
I dunno.

Define "shoot better"... My PSL's (and others aparantly) had lackluster accuracy, even with 7N1 and cold barrel it wasn't anything to get a stiffy over. Hot barrel and silver tip? All over the place.

A Polytech Legend is about as close as you can get to authentic milled AK.

PSL's are cool, don't get me wrong. But I don't know about them being great DMR's. I liked my PSL(s), but sold them when they got up to stupid money.
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:32 PM   #101
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I dunno.

Define "shoot better"... My PSL's (and others aparantly) had lackluster accuracy, even with 7N1 and cold barrel it wasn't anything to get a stiffy over. Hot barrel and silver tip? All over the place.

A Polytech Legend is about as close as you can get to authentic milled AK.

PSL's are cool, don't get me wrong. But I don't know about them being great DMR's. I liked my PSL(s), but sold them when they got up to stupid money.
Having researched fairly extensively (not having an SVD is the bane of my collection) it seems that no one is happy with their performance as a DMR. Beyond aesthetics, they seem to be worthless.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:32 AM   #102
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A DMR rifle is not meant to shoot a fly off someones shoulder at 500 yards. It is meant to hit a man sized target at that distance which it does.

The argument of "Well is it even that accurate?" is like saying you can't go to walmart because all you have is an F150 and you really need a Ferrari to get there.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:15 AM   #103
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A DMR rifle is not meant to shoot a fly off someones shoulder at 500 yards. It is meant to hit a man sized target at that distance which it does.

The argument of "Well is it even that accurate?" is like saying you can't go to walmart because all you have is an F150 and you really need a Ferrari to get there.
This is just me, but there are higher expectations than "hit a man at 500". Consistent accuracy (The PSL seem to string VERY badly) and 2MOA or so, which also isn't what a PSL is pushing. When you can get 2-3 MOA out of other AK style rifles, there just isn't any benefit in a PSL beyond looking like a Dragunov, but I think the fact that it LOOKS like a Dragunov makes it's failure to perform like one bite all the harder.
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:20 AM   #104
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This is just me, but there are higher expectations than "hit a man at 500". Consistent accuracy (The PSL seem to string VERY badly) and 2MOA or so, which also isn't what a PSL is pushing. When you can get 2-3 MOA out of other AK style rifles, there just isn't any benefit in a PSL beyond looking like a Dragunov, but I think the fact that it LOOKS like a Dragunov makes it's failure to perform like one bite all the harder.
The barrett is not an accurate weapon either yet our forces field it right now. Sometimes you don't need to shoot the button off a guys shirt at 1000 to get the job done.

As for knocking it because it's not a dragunov, I own both so win win for me I guess.

Again if you want to knock the price for what it is go for it. The rifle itself is a decent firearm. Decent firearms can win wars(IE Mosin Nagant).
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:13 AM   #105
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I must have got lucky with my PSL as it groups almost as good as my NDM-86 with the right ammo. Mine shoots best with the 1986 vintage Czech light ball (bxn) and also 7N1. I would imagine that with the right reloads it would be even better.
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