Up to 60% Off Daily Deal Products. Palmetto State Armory
The Ultimate Gun Belt, US Made, Lifetime Warranty, Free Shipping. Shop Now.
Gorilla Ammo Free Shipping when you order 10 Boxes or more.
Shop all the current Lone Wolf closeouts here

Go Back   The AK Files Forums > General Forums > Survival and Preparedness

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-06-2018, 11:17 AM   #71
Orpheus
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 177936
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 1,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Returned View Post
About your Ventian market game. Think about this... China has a lot of Gold. The US has been exporting it to China. Sound familiar?
Yes it does. History might not repeat, but it does rhyme. These things dont make sense to most people because reasoning skills are bred out of the education system (really the same thing as the traditional monopoly on literacy back in the day), and that "history" consists of at most 50 year chunks....the last 1200 years at minimum need to be seen as one long phenomenon.
Orpheus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 11:18 AM   #72
Longhorn
Member
 
AKaholic #: 183550
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mobile, Al
Posts: 164
Default

Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Longhorn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 05:44 PM   #73
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Returned View Post
Mind you that gold and silver will keep a commoner stable fiscally from pre to post event. But it won't make you an oligarch. You need a cut throat attitude and A LOT of REAL WEALTH going into the situation. Not just a 15K pile of PMs. More like MILLIONS. If you have that much, you get to dictate the situation and you will come out on top and vastly wealthy and powerful as things stabilize.
Yeah, assuming you also have a fucking ARMY of guys that you can trust to defend you and your pile of gold, anybody here have that?

"Hey I have a shit-ton of gold, wanna work for me for cheap and possibly get murdered to defend my wealth and make ME more powerful?"

Uh-huh, that's gonna go over REAL well after the SHTF (obviously millions of dumbasses worldwide do this currently, but it won't be the same in a world WROL).

You guys are still assuming some sort of civilization and infrastructure, not to mention some sense of fair play from desperate cutthroat people.

You can have all the gold in the world, but if you have no food and you can't buy food (or anything else for that matter, fucking wal-mart ain't gonna be open), then you are fucked.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2018, 11:24 PM   #74
Returned
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 189425
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 2,138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
Yeah, assuming you also have a fucking ARMY of guys that you can trust to defend you and your pile of gold, anybody here have that?

"Hey I have a shit-ton of gold, wanna work for me for cheap and possibly get murdered to defend my wealth and make ME more powerful?"

Uh-huh, that's gonna go over REAL well after the SHTF (obviously millions of dumbasses worldwide do this currently, but it won't be the same in a world WROL).

You guys are still assuming some sort of civilization and infrastructure, not to mention some sense of fair play from desperate cutthroat people.

You can have all the gold in the world, but if you have no food and you can't buy food (or anything else for that matter, fucking wal-mart ain't gonna be open), then you are fucked.
They already have an army. Ready to go the moment time go sideways. Those are prime opportunities for folks with wealth. Remember you make big money on down markets, not on up markets.
The wealth we are taking about here has endured for a thousand years, through war, plague, famine, and social/national collapse...
__________________
Oro supplex et acclinis,
Cor contritum quasi cinis,
Gere curam mei finis.

Dies irę, dies illa, dies tribulationis et angustię, dies calamitatis et miserię, dies tenebrarum et caliginis, dies nebulę et turbinis, dies tubę et clangoris super civitates munitas et super angulos excelsos
Returned is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2018, 07:00 PM   #75
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Returned View Post
They already have an army.
They do, YOU don't.

We are talking about regular guys here like you and me, let's try to keep it real, this is not the place to pump your investments (not saying you are doing that, but you know it happens).

We are talking about the advisability of keeping X amount of PM's as a part of your preps, not Jeff Bezos and his plans of world domination.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 10:11 AM   #76
Returned
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 189425
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 2,138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
They do, YOU don't.

We are talking about regular guys here like you and me, let's try to keep it real, this is not the place to pump your investments (not saying you are doing that, but you know it happens).

We are talking about the advisability of keeping X amount of PM's as a part of your preps, not Jeff Bezos and his plans of world domination.
Read what I am saying, not what you want to see...

IF small time PM stashes are vulnerable to being extorted for bread... then...

Everyone should ensure, like the big guys, that they are ahead of the curve. You cannot afford to be caught buying bread or the last train out and that, perhaps, is more important than PMs themselves.

POSITION is key.

Being in a REACTIVE position will cost you all of your PMs. Because you are small time.

Being PROACTIVE will ensure your PMs and YOU both make it through and mean you are in a position to take advantage of what your saved wealth will enable (which is actually A LOT, when no one has any money, having a little makes you a king).

Here is the think, buying gold coins or silver coins is a losing investment because of the mark-up on them. Mostly because the controllers want to get their pound of flesh of wealth from you if you are going to convert into real wealth. They want to weaken your position...

However, bars and sundry are the least usable wealth while coinage is the most usable wealth. A Coin, can potentially buy a factory. A bar, not really, especially when bars are the easiest to fake (silver or gold). Complex government stamped coinage is the most "trusted". Its been that way since before the Roman Empire.

If you are maximizing inflationary resistance you get bars, but make sure they are real. Just understand you won't be buying a Factory or Farm with a bar usually. Coins are the best for use right after things begin to settle down and you can flex your small level of wealth to maximum, usually with coinage.

Or, do what the Oligarchs did in Russia and convert a small portion to a favorable paper money and ONLY trade that to the "commoner". Ideally a desired but scare paper money. Presuming the US goes down maybe something like the Yuan becomes the dominant global currency (doubtful but its just theory crafting here). You then buy a farm with Yuan. The conversion is favorable because the Yuan is worthless. You don't want gold in circulation, it devalues it. You want people trading in worthless paper.
In Russia the Oligarchs ensured that the common people had to use worthless paper money or USD Greenbacks. They bought things in greenbacks, converted when favorable from a gold. That farmer with ZERO PMs and in need of something that is viewed as a trusted currency will happily accept whatever happens to be the flavor of the time. Ideally you keep the trusted paper notes in very limited supply, the better to pump up it's local value. Since Greenbacks were rare in Russia at the time their value was many times greater than it was on the global market for conversion from gold. AKA... position.

It works for the little guy too. You won't be cornering any markets but you can still multiply your wealth post event. Do as the big guys do, just on a smaller scale.
__________________
Oro supplex et acclinis,
Cor contritum quasi cinis,
Gere curam mei finis.

Dies irę, dies illa, dies tribulationis et angustię, dies calamitatis et miserię, dies tenebrarum et caliginis, dies nebulę et turbinis, dies tubę et clangoris super civitates munitas et super angulos excelsos
Returned is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 05:02 PM   #77
Rev06
Titanium Member
Bronze Contributor
 
AKaholic #: 185972
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: The Outer Limits
Posts: 5,828
Default

This is an interesting topic.

I think gold or PMs, even gems or jewels, would have some value, even in the austere dire early stages of shtf, so long as someone, almost anyone, in the community you are stuck in, has "surplus shtf savings" or SSS.

By SSS, I mean those who are so squared away for shtf that they can and or will be providing for others and have multiple contingencies.

Depending upon the scope of the event, it would only take one or two families w SSS per, what, every few hundred miles(?) to establish a market for PMs?

These local buyers w SSS in turn might be the ones getting the PMs to the coasts for foreign markets that are less impacted, or even to the BIG big hoss w super SSS in your state who is gathering it for world domination per the scenario Returned has laid out.

In my view, PMs, gold mainly, are a shtf fail safe that you cannot plan perfectly for every single shtf scenario. Heck I am sure we can't even fully envision how all the scenarios might play out right now.

So take care of your fundamental preps, hoard some of the good stuff like batteries, bics, meds, or booze for possible barter use, but then keep some PMs for checkpoint bribes, getting out of the country, getting into a country, paying bribes to gov officials doing a census or coming to get your guns etc.

In short, as long as even just a few people are still willing to take some risk, there will be a demand for PMs even in dire circumstances. It only takes a tiny group to motivate all the other middlemen to Hoover it up from the plebes.
__________________
Rev
Rev06 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 05:14 PM   #78
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Returned View Post
Read what I am saying, not what you want to see...
That's a fallacy, you don't have any idea what my motivations are or if i'm trying to "see" something, unlike most of you PM-lovin' guys, I don't need validation that i'm doing the right thing, let's keep this logical please, the little jabs don't help make your point.

Bottom line: If I have land, my own way to make power, my own way to make plenty of food, plenty of fresh water, all the tools, clothes, equipment, and material enough to last me the rest of my life, then what exactly do I need to trade for? Nothing, that's what. So why the hell would I need to "preserve my wealth"?

Much smarter to spend it BEFORE trouble starts, on all the things I would have to venture out into harm's way to get post-SHTF. Its a very viable option, you need to check out some of Black Blade's threads and look through the pics.

My small stash of PM's is plenty, and all of yours is not gonna buy any of what's mine after SHTF, but i'm sure your way is valid for what you intend, good luck on finding actual good people to trade with, with some luck maybe they won't kill you and take your stuff.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2018, 05:26 PM   #79
Orpheus
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 177936
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 1,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
Bottom line: If I have land, my own way to make power, my own way to make plenty of food, plenty of fresh water, all the tools, clothes, equipment, and material enough to last me the rest of my life, then what exactly do I need to trade for? Nothing, that's what. So why the hell would I need to "preserve my wealth"?
The same reason you'd want to do that with no apocalypse scenario if you have all of that.
Orpheus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 02:36 AM   #80
burninglegs
Where we go one we go all
 
burninglegs's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183372
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mishigamaa
Posts: 14,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post

Bottom line: If I have land, my own way to make power, my own way to make plenty of food, plenty of fresh water, all the tools, clothes, equipment, and material enough to last me the rest of my life, then what exactly do I need to trade for? Nothing, that's what. So why the hell would I need to "preserve my wealth"?
Do you have a savings account?
Do you have a 401k?
Do you have shares in the stock market?
Do you have cash squirreled away for a rainy day?


The same reasons that you save some of your excess wealth (unless you are the type that blows your paycheck each week and lives paycheck to paycheck) means that you see the value in saving for the future and setting money away for future and unexpected events. That is the reason why you would want gold and silver. Nothing else is better at preserving one's wealth in a concentrated form that can be easily stored and can be easily transported with them (much harder to transport your home with you, much harder to transport land with you, much harder to transport collectible cars, much harder to transport fine artwork).
burninglegs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 06:23 AM   #81
silvermane_1
((the wagons))anti-troll brigade CO
 
silvermane_1's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170966
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Burien, WA
Posts: 5,334
Default

well one pm that is overlooked is platinum, it has it uses more than just for jewelry and as a "trade medium", although it's no near as ubiquitous as gold.
__________________
"Democans or Republicrats, just different sides of the same coin, it's time for a different coin." -Me
...times are gone for honest men and sometimes far to long for snakes... -RIP Chris Cornell
Happiness is a road, lined with the bones of those whom sold out America, for personal gain/profit. -Me
"Sic semper nova orbis terrae ordinatio collectarius"-Me

i'm a anti-zionist: http://www.antizionism.org
---------------------------------
BAN SIG 2018
silvermane_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2018, 11:52 PM   #82
rcm1201
Member
 
AKaholic #: 165990
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 314
Default

I think when S really HTF, silver/gold's value will strictly be based upon speculation that order will be restored to its previous/similar form, and that metals will once again have value. During SHTF, there is no value for shiny metal IMO. I own a good bit of silver/gold but its strictly a hedge. I know damn well I would never trade my food or bullets for gold or silver
rcm1201 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-13-2018, 11:07 PM   #83
ValHalla211
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 112949
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,629
Default

Gold, silver, copper, lead, aluminum, steel, brass, nickel, tin

All will have the same use by the end of SHTF

Buy into the next system.

This is the part all of you guys miss. Its possible to have guns food AND metals. For those of us who feel confident we have what it takes to possibly survive the worst; Whatever comes next, we will have the key to open the door and step in.
__________________
"We are fully aware that war is not the only way to defend our values. But if those values are fundamentally endangered, as is the case today, then war is the only way to defend them. Everything that hinders us in our effort to defend ourselves is an injustice. We did not want this war, it was thrust upon us, like all others. Defending one's people is a holy duty," - Ratko Mladic

Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
ValHalla211 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2018, 06:58 PM   #84
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burninglegs View Post
Do you have a savings account?
Do you have a 401k?
Do you have shares in the stock market?
Do you have cash squirreled away for a rainy day?


The same reasons that you save some of your excess wealth (unless you are the type that blows your paycheck each week and lives paycheck to paycheck) means that you see the value in saving for the future and setting money away for future and unexpected events. That is the reason why you would want gold and silver. Nothing else is better at preserving one's wealth in a concentrated form that can be easily stored and can be easily transported with them (much harder to transport your home with you, much harder to transport land with you, much harder to transport collectible cars, much harder to transport fine artwork).
I already said (several times) that I HAVE some, i'm just not convinced that having a LOT is a good idea. I unloaded all my excess on a nice peak a while back.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2018, 10:05 PM   #85
burninglegs
Where we go one we go all
 
burninglegs's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183372
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mishigamaa
Posts: 14,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
I already said (several times) that I HAVE some, i'm just not convinced that having a LOT is a good idea. I unloaded all my excess on a nice peak a while back.
You asked "So why the hell would I need to "preserve my wealth"? The reason is the same reason people have savings accounts, 401Ks, rainy day funds, own stocks, own CDs, own mutual funds...etc. To save up and store excess wealth. Unless one just lives paycheck to paycheck. Gold and silver are real money that is outside the purview of the banking system and any bank holidays, hair cuts or inflation.
burninglegs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 03:41 AM   #86
Black Blade
Curio & Relic
 
Black Blade's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 181106
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Yellowstone, Wyoming
Posts: 3,382
Default

Difficult to explain the reasons for wealth preservation to some people ... might as well try to explain calculus to a dog.
__________________
"Participating in a gun buy back because you believe that the criminals have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you believe that the neighbors have too many kids."
Black Blade is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 08:07 AM   #87
Mclaughlin
Senior Member
 
Mclaughlin's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 186391
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 823
Default

Anybody see this story A Golden shower in Russia

https://www.rt.com/news/421387-russi...airport-plane/
Mclaughlin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 05:45 PM   #88
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
Difficult to explain the reasons for wealth preservation to some people ... might as well try to explain calculus to a dog.
Not near as hard as explaining to a thick-headed man of means that MOST people DO NOT have near the resources and wealth that they do, this kind of tunnel vision, the idea that your way is the only right way, makes communicating with these airheads extremely difficult at times.

What part of this is hard for you guys with deep pockets to understand?

You are arguing for the all-out no-compromise get-all-the-gold-you-can on a survival section of the forum, what's more there are young guys out there reading this shit, that have NO water security, NO food security, and basically not much of anything else, that will read and assume that's all they need, or at least that's where they need to start.

Those guys listen to y'all and take their few thousand dollars and use it all to buy gold first and they are fucking dead inside of a week when/if SHTF.

Let's get some damn context into this discussion, and some disclaimers borne of a basic assumption that not all people have the same means, and all are in various stages of trying to get there.

Pretty fucking easy for you to hold forth on this subject with disdain Black Blade when you have the kinds of stashes you have, smugness about it is pretty chickenshit stuff from an allegedly educated man.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 06:23 PM   #89
17 Vive liberatum 76
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 193776
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 138.26.72.17
Posts: 2,372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Walker View Post
I will trade you two cartridges for a gold ring.

In a REAL SHTF SITUATION gold and silver has no real value. What can you actually do with it except maybe make silver bullets, or find a stupid woman who will trade herself for a gold ring.

You want real value....buy ammo cheap and pack it deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sboone View Post
Gold and silver have 0 value to me personally, but it has value to other people and that’s why it’s important to have at least a little. You won’t be able to trade me for shit with gold and silver but I’m more than happy to give you a chunk of metal for supplies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKaltwasser View Post
I'm always fascinated by the people that think it's a have or have not question. There are stages in everyone's preps and I think PM's should be towards the last of those stages. Should you collect PM's before food and water, no?. Most of us that have PM's have so much food, water, ammo, medical supplies, armor to the point of overflow. Pm's are a safe place when storage space is diminishing.

There are several variables in SHTF /post SHTF scenarios. We all assume that everyone we want to risk trading with will have what we need, it's not that easy. Silver provides the medium for that trading, there would be a learning curve for detecting loaded/mixed metals but that's to be assumed.

I think if you've been in this game for long you understand this is not anything someone can predict. You try and cover as many avenues as possible without blowing your money. Like many others have said, there would be a market, what that market is......no one knows. What I would expect is, those that do have that metal will climb out of that financial hole much quicker. It's just another option of security.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
This +1000

If you have all the rest of your preps in good shape, add a small amount of PM's just as some extra insurance to have a little for those who will trade in it.

Personally I think bullets will be better currency, in the worst-case-scenario a Bic lighter will be worth FAR more than gold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Walker View Post
I am a Redneck from Mississippi, and I don't even know anyone who has gold, silver, or diamonds.

If TSHTF no one should bother offering me gold, silver, or jewelry cause I ain't interested in something that doesn't "do" anything for survival.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larryphoto View Post
In a Full break down of society SHTF situation you might be lucky to get a bowl of rice for your gold Krugerrand
Quote:
Originally Posted by MykTV View Post
Don't store silver or gold, for SHTF. If you want to buy as an investment for normal life, do it.


But if SHTF I wouldn't give you a roll of toilet paper for a hill of gold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epaminondas View Post
SHTF why would you ever want to trade stuff for gold? Can't eat it or shoot it or burn it.

Say you have three years food on hand, and nice garden and some ammo. Some one shows up with gold and asks for food.... what are you going to do? turn them away unless they are close family, or have useful skills.
I don't understand why so many envision PMs for necessities. That's not what it's for and if your down to that (assuming someone would trade in it) then you have big problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by virgil cole View Post
A small tube of Anti-biotic Ointment would be worth a fortune .

Yes it would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhorn View Post
Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by burninglegs View Post
So you are telling me all of your excess wealth (after your pay your monthly bills) you throw into ammo, guns, long term food and other preps every month? You have no savings account. No 401k. No rainy day fund. No cash on hand. No stocks. No CD/money market accounts. Your checking account floats around $0 as you put all of your excess money into preps. Did I get that right? (those are rhetorical questions, you don't need to answer them)

Gold and silver have real value. They are a store of excess wealth that you take through SHTF to the other side. Can also be used in a SHTF as needed. Gold and silver are a store of wealth. Outside the grasp of the government or banking system. No way your gold or silver can be inflated away. No way their value debased. No way for your access to them to be locked out by the banking system due to a bank holiday. Gold and silver are the only true value of something tangible that you can take with you through the SHTF. If you had to get up and leave your AO and go somewhere else, you can take your excess wealth with you (much easier with gold than silver). Much harder to do that with fancy sculptures, artwork, classic cars...etc. that many rich and famous purchase to store their excess wealth.

I'm surprised that many members on here don't understand the purpose and use of precious metals in a possible SHTF scenario. Even if SHTF never happens, they still have value in one's financial assets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
Silver and Gold are "lifeboats" to move wealth from before the SHTF Titanic sinks until order is reestablished. Pity those holding green toilet paper after a financial collapse. History is your guide. Learn vicariously from history or learn painfully from experience. Your choice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Blade View Post
Difficult to explain the reasons for wealth preservation to some people ... might as well try to explain calculus to a dog.
Yes, yes, yes and yes. I would add that a good way to store some of your PMs is in jewelry IMO. Escapes government confiscation attempts in most scenarios probably and gives Ian some business in the here and now.
__________________
Support the GOA!

The NRA is worse than the Amerikan left. They are traitors and betray with a kiss.

Leftism is Satanism. The left is the main enemy of these united States of America.
17 Vive liberatum 76 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 06:32 PM   #90
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

FYI your gold and silver is about to take a dip, gold is gonna test the 200 dema at around 1295, and if it fails you'll see the 1270 level as the next place it might hold. Silver's a little harder, chart is roughly steady, but in longer term decline, 15.50 looks like it might support maybe, secondary indicators look like shit at the moment, if not then the 14 area will be what i'll be looking for, i'll likely dip in at that point.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 07:22 PM   #91
burninglegs
Where we go one we go all
 
burninglegs's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 183372
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Mishigamaa
Posts: 14,786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
Not near as hard as explaining to a thick-headed man of means that MOST people DO NOT have near the resources and wealth that they do, this kind of tunnel vision, the idea that your way is the only right way, makes communicating with these airheads extremely difficult at times.

What part of this is hard for you guys with deep pockets to understand?

You are arguing for the all-out no-compromise get-all-the-gold-you-can on a survival section of the forum, what's more there are young guys out there reading this shit, that have NO water security, NO food security, and basically not much of anything else, that will read and assume that's all they need, or at least that's where they need to start.

Those guys listen to y'all and take their few thousand dollars and use it all to buy gold first and they are fucking dead inside of a week when/if SHTF.

Let's get some damn context into this discussion, and some disclaimers borne of a basic assumption that not all people have the same means, and all are in various stages of trying to get there.

Pretty fucking easy for you to hold forth on this subject with disdain Black Blade when you have the kinds of stashes you have, smugness about it is pretty chickenshit stuff from an allegedly educated man.
You just keep repeating the same old shit over and over again of other guys that are wrong. "You can't eat gold." "I won't trade a can of beans for a bag of gold." and other bullshit. Owning preps and gold/silver are not mutually exclusive. It isn't one other other. It is both.

Again, do you live paycheck to paycheck?

Do you have a savings account? Mutual funds? CD accounts? Money market accounts? Own stocks? Have a rainy day fund? Or do you just blow your paycheck each week on preps and keep buying beans and toilet paper and go until your checking account hits $0.00? I'm doubtful you do that.

So again, it isn't preps or gold and silver. It is both. They are not mutually exclusive. You can do both.
burninglegs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2018, 08:00 PM   #92
17 Vive liberatum 76
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 193776
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 138.26.72.17
Posts: 2,372
Default

PMs are for people with wealth. A poor man with a few coins isn't what PM is for. Although it can't hurt and it bears to keep that in mind.

In any of the various SHtF scenarios there will be an economy. When it gets down to an economy of bartering commodities you won't be swapping gold for beets I hope.

The PMs preserve the wealth you had for conversion into whatever money becomes post SHTF.

Your beans, bandages and bullets are a separate issue from PMs. That's what Blade and others are trying to say.
__________________
Support the GOA!

The NRA is worse than the Amerikan left. They are traitors and betray with a kiss.

Leftism is Satanism. The left is the main enemy of these united States of America.
17 Vive liberatum 76 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2018, 03:51 PM   #93
Orpheus
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 177936
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 1,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post
FYI your gold and silver is about to take a dip, gold is gonna test the 200 dema at around 1295, and if it fails you'll see the 1270 level as the next place it might hold. Silver's a little harder, chart is roughly steady, but in longer term decline, 15.50 looks like it might support maybe, secondary indicators look like shit at the moment, if not then the 14 area will be what i'll be looking for, i'll likely dip in at that point.
Says who?
Orpheus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 02:05 AM   #94
Shaggy
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 165600
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Snohomish co, WA
Posts: 2,533
Default

Fun fact about trading off fake gold, so in 1883 they came out with a new 5c nickle. It wasnt marked cents so people plated them and passed them off as new $5 coins... It must have worked since i had 2 of them in various conditions that were plated. I guess people that had never seen $5 worth in gold didnt know better
Shaggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 05:19 AM   #95
silvermane_1
((the wagons))anti-troll brigade CO
 
silvermane_1's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170966
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Burien, WA
Posts: 5,334
Default

physical gold is good, but silver is better if the shtf scenario ever happens, and it would best to have both in coin form rather in ingot form.
__________________
"Democans or Republicrats, just different sides of the same coin, it's time for a different coin." -Me
...times are gone for honest men and sometimes far to long for snakes... -RIP Chris Cornell
Happiness is a road, lined with the bones of those whom sold out America, for personal gain/profit. -Me
"Sic semper nova orbis terrae ordinatio collectarius"-Me

i'm a anti-zionist: http://www.antizionism.org
---------------------------------
BAN SIG 2018
silvermane_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 04:42 PM   #96
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
Says who?
What do you mean "says who?"? Whose post did you quote?

Gold down again today, the 20 dema is about to cross down over the 50, and the price hasn't touched the 50 in 3 days, plus in the short term (3-months) the chart has made an obvious double-top, again, 1295 might save ya...for a while.

Silver is just purely fucked. All the dema's are stacked now on top in order, you can kiss that shit goodbye, there may be a tiny bit of support at around 16.10, but it won't hold a 4th test IMO, tomorrow it'll break below 16 unless material events in the world and markets change everything.

So how's that "preserve muh wealth" thing work when you are LOSING dollars as we speak?

Gawd I remember the crying and wailing and gnashing of teeth when silver crashed, those guys who bought in above 40...too fucking dumb to have bought when it was cheap, too stupid to sell when it was obvious the top had been reached...



__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47

Last edited by Dragynn; 03-20-2018 at 04:49 PM.
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 05:23 PM   #97
Orpheus
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 177936
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 1,933
Default

So, in other words its a normal fluctuation. Okay gotcha
Orpheus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 06:07 PM   #98
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
So, in other words its a normal fluctuation. Okay gotcha


Okay, let's hear your analysis then. (or was that the best you could do?)
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 08:17 PM   #99
Orpheus
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 177936
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 1,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragynn View Post


Okay, let's hear your analysis then. (or was that the best you could do?)
I gave it it to you. " Silver will drop below 16 tomorrow" So? Sell it short then. If you think your analytic abilities are worth anything give me a 6 month projection
Orpheus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2018, 10:20 PM   #100
17 Vive liberatum 76
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 193776
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 138.26.72.17
Posts: 2,372
Default

Wow. Comparing PMs to today’s dollars for those stacking it long term is a new level.
__________________
Support the GOA!

The NRA is worse than the Amerikan left. They are traitors and betray with a kiss.

Leftism is Satanism. The left is the main enemy of these united States of America.
17 Vive liberatum 76 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 10:07 AM   #101
Returned
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 189425
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 2,138
Default

The funny thing is have any of you tried to sell physical PMs?

You take a bath on it. It's pretty much just for preserving wealth over a dollar collapse. That is why people who make money rapid trading PMs do it with paper (virtual) PMs.. aka speculation.

Remember, any wealth you have converted to PMs ceases to "work for you" and is just in a depreciation (mostly) proof holding pattern. ATM I think that back a few decades that I put too much into PMs. I cannot convert it into positive gaining wealth. If I had kept it in position in the markets I'd be a millionaire.

Note for you young-ins, I got suckered into the Y2K thing with too much of my liquid wealth that should have stayed in the Market. I'd have made a KILLING off of it by this point if I had not changed positions. Just let it ride from 1998 to today and it would have gained, without buying or selling, about 10x it's value. So yes.. I'd be rolling in the millions. Instead I moved a goodly portion into physical PMs for protection from a nothing burger.

Just FYI when you consider stacking your gold and silver that you are removing that wealth from the potential to make a LOT more wealth out of it over a decade or more period.
__________________
Oro supplex et acclinis,
Cor contritum quasi cinis,
Gere curam mei finis.

Dies irę, dies illa, dies tribulationis et angustię, dies calamitatis et miserię, dies tenebrarum et caliginis, dies nebulę et turbinis, dies tubę et clangoris super civitates munitas et super angulos excelsos
Returned is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 07:22 PM   #102
17 Vive liberatum 76
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 193776
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: 138.26.72.17
Posts: 2,372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Returned View Post
The funny thing is have any of you tried to sell physical PMs?

That is why people who make money rapid trading PMs.

Remember, any wealth you have converted to PMs ceases to "work for you" and is just in a depreciation (mostly) proof holding pattern.

Just FYI when you consider stacking your gold and silver that you are removing that wealth from the potential to make a LOT more wealth out of it over a decade or more period.
The thread isn’t about short term PM or paper trading.

Yes I have a friend in Kali who bought a ton of gold in ‘02-‘03 and sold all of it some years ago to buy an apartment complex.

Converted to PM as a long term preservation not depreciation (again you are using your timeline) and investment.

Talking about all the short stuff to make money isn’t what this thread is about. Also removing the risk is another way to state it.
__________________
Support the GOA!

The NRA is worse than the Amerikan left. They are traitors and betray with a kiss.

Leftism is Satanism. The left is the main enemy of these united States of America.
17 Vive liberatum 76 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2018, 08:12 PM   #103
Returned
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 189425
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 2,138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 17 Vive liberatum 76 View Post
The thread isn’t about short term PM or paper trading.

Yes I have a friend in Kali who bought a ton of gold in ‘02-‘03 and sold all of it some years ago to buy an apartment complex.

Converted to PM as a long term preservation not depreciation (again you are using your timeline) and investment.

Talking about all the short stuff to make money isn’t what this thread is about. Also removing the risk is another way to state it.
Indeed, but my warning was more for people who want to get into PMs now that doing so should be done in such a way as to not harm or hamper wealth gain in the NOW (and future). Aka. You need both but do so judiciously. Ripping all your wealth out of the market to get PMs because SHTF is NOT wise. Again, my action was more a warning. Y2K didn't happen, because of my excessive move against risk it hurt future gains significantly. The fee structure makes recovering wealth from physical PMs very hard (you are likely to take a loss, this is especially true in the case of COINS! which often sell with a premium markup because of their technical projected trusted nature as a currency). Now this isn't always the case. If the market shifts you can make a handy little profit. It's just not a simple thing to actually sell the PMs themselves, ship them, etc.

Now, mind you it wasn't an emotional decision. I was IN the computing industry and it did look very grim. Some big players did not know what to do to stop it until later in the game. Of course, like all things technical, once we figured out the fix it was actually quite simple really and boom disaster averted.

That may or may not repeat for any given disaster. Folks are always working in the 11th hour to avert TEOTWAKI. So I've got a pile of PMs instead of a pile of devalued, but still technically more valuable dollars which I could convert today to PMs and still be ahead.

So yes, hedge, manage risk, but understand that any PMs are "parked" wealth. Which by any measure of most of our level of wealth (aka we are not 100+ MUSD in assets, most not even >3MUSD in assets) that parking our wealth can be very harmful to long term gains.


It's a gamble either way. Just that any wealth you tie up in PMs is going to be for the disaster, unless you can get a lucky break in the market (it's happened, I've converted some of the Y2K during some tasty market spikes back during panics when people were buying up PMs and driving the price through the roof). Be that disaster never comes ten, twenty, thirty, and even after your kiddos inherit your PM buffer.
__________________
Oro supplex et acclinis,
Cor contritum quasi cinis,
Gere curam mei finis.

Dies irę, dies illa, dies tribulationis et angustię, dies calamitatis et miserię, dies tenebrarum et caliginis, dies nebulę et turbinis, dies tubę et clangoris super civitates munitas et super angulos excelsos
Returned is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 02:50 PM   #104
HKaltwasser
Member
 
AKaholic #: 55056
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: TX
Posts: 136
Default

One of the local gun stores pays spot for generic and +1.00 for Maples. Not the full premium paid but enough of a safe out if I need it. So yeah, selling physical silver is super easy in my local market.
.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Returned View Post
The funny thing is have any of you tried to sell physical PMs?

You take a bath on it. It's pretty much just for preserving wealth over a dollar collapse. That is why people who make money rapid trading PMs do it with paper (virtual) PMs.. aka speculation.

Remember, any wealth you have converted to PMs ceases to "work for you" and is just in a depreciation (mostly) proof holding pattern. ATM I think that back a few decades that I put too much into PMs. I cannot convert it into positive gaining wealth. If I had kept it in position in the markets I'd be a millionaire.

Note for you young-ins, I got suckered into the Y2K thing with too much of my liquid wealth that should have stayed in the Market. I'd have made a KILLING off of it by this point if I had not changed positions. Just let it ride from 1998 to today and it would have gained, without buying or selling, about 10x it's value. So yes.. I'd be rolling in the millions. Instead I moved a goodly portion into physical PMs for protection from a nothing burger.

Just FYI when you consider stacking your gold and silver that you are removing that wealth from the potential to make a LOT more wealth out of it over a decade or more period.
HKaltwasser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2018, 07:10 PM   #105
Returned
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 189425
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Claremore, OK
Posts: 2,138
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKaltwasser View Post
One of the local gun stores pays spot for generic and +1.00 for Maples. Not the full premium paid but enough of a safe out if I need it. So yeah, selling physical silver is super easy in my local market.
.
That's pretty generous actually. Good local store.
__________________
Oro supplex et acclinis,
Cor contritum quasi cinis,
Gere curam mei finis.

Dies irę, dies illa, dies tribulationis et angustię, dies calamitatis et miserię, dies tenebrarum et caliginis, dies nebulę et turbinis, dies tubę et clangoris super civitates munitas et super angulos excelsos
Returned is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles