Go Back   The AK Files Forums > General Forums > Ammunition

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2018, 11:13 AM   #1
s10nova
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 163662
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: indiana, usa
Posts: 730
Default Ignorance or stupidity(@dventures with steel case)

With the whole panic panic mode or worry with Russian imported Tula etc..I was in Walmart yesterday and figured I'd get a box of 7.62x39 and 9mm(the 9mm has dropped to 7.76+tax...told the guy what I wanted...he started to ring it up and asked "what are ya gonna be shooting this out of"....I said an AK.

..he said "no, I meant the 9mm"

I paused for a second...cuz I'll probably shoot it through 2 different guns...and said

"A Glock.."




Then it happened folks....













He kinda made a face and said...


"I'd be careful, might rip your extractor out"......

I just told myself to remain calm...ignore his stupidity...or ignorance and carry on..

I don't even remember what I replied...I think I just said..OK...
I wanted to say a couple different things but I could tell this short stubby tactical NRA certified...Instructor Expert....thousands of rounds down range a year badass was clearly more experienced than me so like I said..I think I just said ..


"OK".
End of my rant for today.
s10nova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 11:28 AM   #2
Brasky
Veteran Member
 
Brasky's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 187139
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,918
Default

Go on other forums and that belief has taken over. 3/4 of the people believe steelcase breaks extractors and will ruin your firearm quickly
Brasky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 11:29 AM   #3
Ram Rod
Ruler of Ramnation
Contributor
 
Ram Rod's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 182786
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: real close to the Buffalo
Posts: 4,539
Default

Ignore it. He probably read that on FaceBook or his Antifa forum.

Steel case ammo kills Glocks and AR15s dontchya know?
__________________
Misfit magazine garage repair guroo

Quote:
“A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower

DEFCON 2.2
Ram Rod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 11:40 AM   #4
Ammosexual
It's sexual
 
Ammosexual's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 188374
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 433
Default

For some reason people think that just because it says "steel cased" that it must mean it is made out of D-2 tool steel.

If you beak an extractor, it's because you had a shitty extractor.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek! View Post
The "alt right" is too liberal for me....
Ammosexual is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 03:32 PM   #5
nofreetime
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 180281
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 1,623
Default

What's an extractor? $5?
nofreetime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 04:09 PM   #6
Dragynn
Curio & Relic
Contributor
 
Dragynn's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 170546
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Eriador
Posts: 5,172
Default

The only time you'll have any problems with steel-case, is in very cold weather, found this out a few years ago, had several guns that had previously had zero issues with steelcase, that started to experience the occasional failure to extract properly.
__________________
((DB)) Deplorable Basterd brigade #47
Dragynn is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 04:45 PM   #7
Porcupine
Curio & Relic
Bronze Contributor
 
AKaholic #: 178627
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NC
Posts: 5,100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
Go on other forums and that belief has taken over. 3/4 of the people believe steelcase breaks extractors and will ruin your firearm quickly
Good. More for us.
Porcupine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 05:11 PM   #8
Just a Citizen
Not the Sharpest Crayon in the box.
 
Just a Citizen's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 173954
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 5,157
Default

the cases are annealed, and are very soft, if not softer then brass, with the polymer coating the cases don't even register on a hardness tester because its so soft.

__________________
"The right of a citizen to bear arms, in lawful defense of himself or the State, is absolute. He does not derive it from the State government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and `is excepted out of the general powers of government.' A law cannot be passed to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the lawmaking power." [Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394, at 401-402 (1859)
Just a Citizen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 05:26 PM   #9
frankinnola
Veteran Member
Bronze Contributor
 
frankinnola's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 174065
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Jefferson, LA
Posts: 1,852
Default

This is funny. I remember the number of blown extractors from some very hot 9mm ammo from Austria .
frankinnola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 06:12 PM   #10
Ammosexual
It's sexual
 
Ammosexual's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 188374
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Indiana
Posts: 433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nofreetime View Post
What's an extractor? $5?
Shit. Fixing a gun is half the fun of even owning them.

Pour a bourbon on the rocks, go out to the garage, turn on your favorite music, and 4 hours later you still haven't fixed that extractor but you found two parts kits, 450 rounds of ammo, pounded 3 ham sandwiches, organized your mag storage, and found two guns on GB that you just have to have...


It is an adventure.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreek! View Post
The "alt right" is too liberal for me....
Ammosexual is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2018, 10:05 PM   #11
Scott7891
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 58999
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,753
Default

It all depends on the gun in question.

On a Glock or AR? No big deal since parts are easy to find anyway.

However on your collectible/import-banned/no-longer-made-guns that will be a problem since extractors are a wear part. That is why bolt repair kits have them. If you can't replace an extractor or any combination of parts that help in the ejection of said casing from the firearm because parts are not there you now have an expensive paperweight.

The Luckygunner test did shine light on long term longevity of both types of ammo. Steel-cased ammo tore up the guns in 6,000 rounds having many parts needing to be replaced. Brass ammo was still going strong with very little wear even at 10,000 rounds. Of course powder type and quality is also an important factor to consider.

So again it comes down to what gun you have and plan on shooting it with.
Scott7891 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 12:50 AM   #12
DevJames
Member
 
AKaholic #: 193787
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Lebanon, TN
Posts: 270
Default

WIth some of the shitty extractors Glock put out over the past few years...I might not be surprised if it happened.

My 19 hasn't given me any BTF yet though. Could just throw an APEX extractor in it to be safe but eh...
DevJames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 11:08 PM   #13
Beaver Hunter
Curio & Relic
 
Beaver Hunter's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 164221
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: GA
Posts: 2,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevJames View Post
WIth some of the shitty extractors Glock put out over the past few years...I might not be surprised if it happened.

My 19 hasn't given me any BTF yet though. Could just throw an APEX extractor in it to be safe but eh...
Yeah. I've shot maybe 100k rounds through factory Glocks and haven't suffered a single broken extractor.
__________________
Tudo o que eu garantir e violencia.

Beaver Hunter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 11:11 PM   #14
Beaver Hunter
Curio & Relic
 
Beaver Hunter's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 164221
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: GA
Posts: 2,712
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammosexual View Post
For some reason people think that just because it says "steel cased" that it must mean it is made out of D-2 tool steel.

If you beak an extractor, it's because you had a shitty extractor.
The only extractors I've broken were from shooting steel case ammo. I've seen about 4 of them, but they broke at around 5k rounds. I think, for the most part, it's a non issue. Extractors are a few bucks anyways.
__________________
Tudo o que eu garantir e violencia.

Beaver Hunter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2018, 11:29 PM   #15
rbox1064
Rammer Jammer
Contributor
 
AKaholic #: 173428
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tuscumbia, Al
Posts: 2,855
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaver Hunter View Post
The only extractors I've broken were from shooting steel case ammo. I've seen about 4 of them, but they broke at around 5k rounds. I think, for the most part, it's a non issue. Extractors are a few bucks anyways.
Do you work at Walmart?
rbox1064 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 12:02 AM   #16
Idratherbapickle
Veteran Member
 
Idratherbapickle's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 193120
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Jacksonville,Florida
Posts: 1,164
Default

I've shot plenty steel out of a G34, G19 gen 4, G19 gen 3, G43, and G22 and all have been fine.
Idratherbapickle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2018, 12:07 AM   #17
BULL
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 184045
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Silicon Valley, Commiefornia
Posts: 525
Default

I love steel cases. They allow you to shoot all day for 1/2 price, my Luger feeds fine; 1911a1 works great too.
Had to stock up as Commiefornia doesn’t allow internet sales anymore, it’s 30%cheaper on the web,even after shipping
BULL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 01:40 PM   #18
Sigiloso
Curio & Relic
 
Sigiloso's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 185454
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: In the Back of Your Mind
Posts: 12,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just a Citizen View Post
the cases are annealed, and are very soft, if not softer then brass, with the polymer coating the cases don't even register on a hardness tester because its so soft.
The "myth" dates back to the early dabbling with steel cases, like here during WWII, and the extractor problem has less to do with the hardness of the case, than the propensity of steel, if not formulated or coated/lubed correctly, to stick.

The sticking causes increased force required by the extractor, thus resulting in failure.

Steel cases have come a long way since the beginning, and this problem has been ironed out to a great degree. Alloys used in gun production have also improved as has engineering. Steel cases are not the problem they once were.

That said, a replacement extractor, is cheap insurance to have on hand, no matter what you are shooting.

Also, Dragynn's post above concerning "cold weather" likely relates to the coating/lube issue, and is good tactical information.

The Wal Mart guy, may have been right,... 50 years or so ago.
__________________
"Socialism will succeed only to the degree that government is able to achieve oppression"-
Erich Mielke, Head Of East German Ministry for State Security(STASI)

"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU
Sigiloso is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 01:56 PM   #19
Richardmofo
Curio & Relic
 
Richardmofo's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 165722
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Houston,Tx
Posts: 2,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ammosexual View Post
Shit. Fixing a gun is half the fun of even owning them.

Pour a bourbon on the rocks, go out to the garage, turn on your favorite music, and 4 hours later you still haven't fixed that extractor but you found two parts kits, 450 rounds of ammo, pounded 3 ham sandwiches, organized your mag storage, and found two guns on GB that you just have to have...


It is an adventure.
Living the dream.
__________________
Originally Posted by DeathRider
Cant do it now to my internet face then I say you are a coward.


Richardmofo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 02:18 PM   #20
brawny
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 187460
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 2,671
Default

Alright then smarty pants op, why do many ranges not allow steel cases?
Because they don't want to deal with operators breaking extractors!
No really, what is their beef with steel?
__________________
Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Let all that you do be done in love.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14

The devil whispered in my ear, “Your not strong enough to withstand the storm.”

Today I whispered in the devil’s ear, “You're.”
brawny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 09:45 PM   #21
ammolab
Veteran Member
 
AKaholic #: 3438
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lincoln Co, NM
Posts: 1,934
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brawny View Post
Alright then smarty pants op, why do many ranges not allow steel cases?
Because they don't want to deal with operators breaking extractors!
No really, what is their beef with steel?
Their beef is: The brass cases you leave on the floor are worth MONEY...The brass cased ammo you buy there when they nix your Tula ammo makes them MONEY.

Steel cases on their floor are just a trash problem
ammolab is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2018, 10:47 PM   #22
Rev06
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 185972
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: In the bitter cold
Posts: 4,115
Default

And they all vote.
__________________
Rev
Rev06 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 09:49 AM   #23
Brasky
Veteran Member
 
Brasky's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 187139
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,918
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
Their beef is: The brass cases you leave on the floor are worth MONEY...The brass cased ammo you buy there when they nix your Tula ammo makes them MONEY.

Steel cases on their floor are just a trash problem
This is exactly it and why I built my own range in my back yard
Brasky is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:03 AM   #24
hoovdizzle
Senior Member
 
hoovdizzle's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 181475
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Iowa City, IA
Posts: 603
Default

#steelcasesmatter
__________________
Looking for 7n6.

"Let the retards buy retarded rifles so at least they die faster if we go to war against retards" -Sabre5G
hoovdizzle is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 11:24 AM   #25
brawny
Curio & Relic
 
AKaholic #: 187460
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 2,671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovdizzle View Post
#steelcasesmatter
This. Not sure why these places got to be little bitches about it
__________________
Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
Let all that you do be done in love.
1 Corinthians 16:13-14

The devil whispered in my ear, “Your not strong enough to withstand the storm.”

Today I whispered in the devil’s ear, “You're.”
brawny is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 02:17 PM   #26
allesennogwat
Curio & Relic
 
allesennogwat's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 3738
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 45,933
Default

Glock extractors will break if the slide is dropped on a chambered round, instead of being fed from the magazine.

It doesn't matter if it is steel or brass.

Steel cases are only harder on extractors when extracting, due to the expansion characteristics of steel, not the hardness or strength.

Special steel was developed in WWII for 45 ACP cases.

Later, steel 7.62 and 5.56 cases were developed for the military.

Commercial ammo may use cheaper, non-special steels.
__________________
Daraclor: A brand of anti-malaria pills which we had to drink every week while on the border. Legend had it that these would make you turn yellow and that you wouldn't be able to tan.
allesennogwat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2018, 07:31 PM   #27
Sigiloso
Curio & Relic
 
Sigiloso's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 185454
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: In the Back of Your Mind
Posts: 12,627
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
Glock extractors will break if the slide is dropped on a chambered round, instead of being fed from the magazine.

It doesn't matter if it is steel or brass.

Steel cases are only harder on extractors when extracting, due to the expansion characteristics of steel, not the hardness or strength.

Special steel was developed in WWII for 45 ACP cases.

Later, steel 7.62 and 5.56 cases were developed for the military.

Commercial ammo may use cheaper, non-special steels.

.30 carbine steel cases were also produced and used, but the .45 ACP was far more common. I have some around here somewhere. They were still using it up, into at least, the mid 50's.

There was experimentation with .50 BMG and reportedly .30-06 as well, but I don't think either was issued.
__________________
"Socialism will succeed only to the degree that government is able to achieve oppression"-
Erich Mielke, Head Of East German Ministry for State Security(STASI)

"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU
Sigiloso is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 12:41 AM   #28
jb1911
Senior Member
 
jb1911's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 175875
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Dyer, IN 46311
Posts: 720
Default

Much ado about nothing.
~Shakespeare
__________________
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
jb1911 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2018, 05:09 AM   #29
6920
Member
 
AKaholic #: 194993
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Idaho
Posts: 106
Default

I've shot about 3 cases of 9mm tula in the past couple months, no problems.
6920 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 02:18 AM   #30
allesennogwat
Curio & Relic
 
allesennogwat's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 3738
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 45,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post
.30 carbine steel cases were also produced and used, but the .45 ACP was far more common. I have some around here somewhere. They were still using it up, into at least, the mid 50's.

There was experimentation with .50 BMG and reportedly .30-06 as well, but I don't think either was issued.
Yes I have some 30 Carbine steel cases.

Their production ended early in the war.

They were also trying many different powders for 30 Carbine during the war.
__________________
Daraclor: A brand of anti-malaria pills which we had to drink every week while on the border. Legend had it that these would make you turn yellow and that you wouldn't be able to tan.
allesennogwat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 05:03 PM   #32
Chuck53
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 170723
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Paper St. Soap Company
Posts: 999
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
Glock extractors will break if the slide is dropped on a chambered round, instead of being fed from the magazine.

It doesn't matter if it is steel or brass.
Shit really???

I do that with my Gen 4 G19 after I clean it. One goes in the chamber, I let the slide down on it and in goes the mag.

Why would that break it?
__________________
I just wanted a signature.
Chuck53 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 07:16 PM   #33
Fjordforder
Indestructible, not invulnerable!
 
Fjordforder's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 175530
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Western WA state
Posts: 1,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck53 View Post
Shit really???

I do that with my Gen 4 G19 after I clean it. One goes in the chamber, I let the slide down on it and in goes the mag.

Why would that break it?
Because somebody on the internet said so, duh.



For the record I don`t own a Glock, I`m just being a jackass because it was a good day.
__________________
"To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee! For hates sake I spit my last breath at thee! "

THE ENTIRE KIM DYNASTY IS A LONG, LONG LINE OF PUNK ASS BITCHES

Be the Mutant DEVO wants you to be!

7.62x39, 5.45x39, 7.62x51, 7.62x54r, 5.56x45, 12x76, 9x19, .22WMR, 7.5x54
Fjordforder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2018, 11:01 PM   #34
BULL
Senior Member
 
AKaholic #: 184045
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Silicon Valley, Commiefornia
Posts: 525
Default

Maybe if your gun is one of those cheap imports that were prevalent in the 70s

I run thousands through a WW2 P08 Luger and thousands through my US made 1911 and 1911a1, not a hint of trouble.
I save on the cost of ammo and since I don’t reload, I don’t save cases.
BULL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2018, 01:29 AM   #35
KernelKrink
Curio & Relic
 
KernelKrink's Avatar
 
AKaholic #: 2036
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 12,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck53 View Post
Shit really???

I do that with my Gen 4 G19 after I clean it. One goes in the chamber, I let the slide down on it and in goes the mag.

Why would that break it?
Most handguns, with the exception of the Desert Eagle, are "controlled feed" designs. As the slide strips the top round out of the magazine, the rear slides up the breechface and under the extractor. This puts little stress on it and only cams it outward slightly.

Dropping the slide on a chambered round is what happens in a "push feed" system like most rifles use. The forward edge of the extractor hits the case, is cammed outward far enough to clear it, then snaps back into the groove. The force against it is much greater, both straight back and against the angled surface that makes it cam out. It also usually puts a dink in the brass.

Will this break a Glock extractor? I dunno, but designs like the 1911 with a one piece extractor that is also the spring that powers it can and often are damaged by this. It bends them further than they were designed for, sometimes snapping them, sometimes weakening them, or sometimes chipping off the hook.

OTOH, constantly re-chambering the same rounds from the magazine will eventually shove the bullet back in the case enough to cause a pressure spike.
KernelKrink is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles