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Old 01-10-2018, 09:57 PM   #1
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Default Letís cut the crap...I probably wonít survive.

I have had a lot of time off over the last month. With the holidays and all work has been slow, and when things are slow I find it incredibly easy to let my mind wander. Given the countless threads on this forum concerning a ďRevolution 2.0Ē my mind has gone over the subject numerous times.

I consider it a very real possibility. Itís not a certainty but I do think there is an extremely high chance in the next 20 years to see a MAJOR nationwide clash of political/racial/ worldview affiliations. A conflict to the point that basic services shut down. No power, water, food, waste disposal, etc., basic SHTF stuff. When you take away even basic thing like power and food, people become desperate...


...and desperate people are fucking dangerous.



So, I thought, ďCould I pull the trigger?Ē Do I have the ability to take the life of someone who in all honesty may just be trying to feed his family? Would I hesitate, in that crucial moment, to put a bullet in someone I may have even known for years?


I have no military experience. I have never fired a single shot in anger. I have never had a living, breathing person in my sight picture. I have tried to imagine myself in those situations, but itís just that, imagination. I remember hearing a documentary about soldiers in WWI. They would grab these boys off of farms and small towns in rural America and throw them into the fire so to speak...and they would choke. They couldnít pull the trigger. They had been raised to believe that taking human life was wrong. They couldnít reconcile with the fact that they now had to kill someone whom they had never met. They hesitated


A lot of kids probably died for that very reason.



In addition, given my lack of military experience, I donít know the first fucking thing about actual combat. I can work an AK. I can work an AR. Iím not a bad shot either. Got shit tons of ammo. Iím sure thereís a ton of dead men in the deserts and jungles who were better shots than I am. Combat has to be more than bullets and bombs, right?

I have heard it said that the mind is the greatest weapon. I would assume that would insinuate that outthinking your opponent is crucial to victory. How do I, some dumb 32 year old from Southern Indiana, outplay someone who probably has better shit than me, more shit than me, and probably by that time killed someone. How do you train for that???

How do you train for this crap? How do you prepare yourself to be able to pull the trigger on another person? How to I train myself to outthink other people?


How do I prepare?



History is written by the victors. I would like to be there at the end. I would like those with me to be there at the end. I would like all of you to be there at the end. I just think I may be kidding myself. If America needs blood to get to the next century, Iíd rather it be their blood and not mine.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:11 PM   #2
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There is a difference between murder and killing in self defence .
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:16 PM   #3
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The battlefield is in the mind. I've never played video games, but if you want to learn advanced squad tactics, there has always been a reason for Call of Duty style games outside of frills and fun.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:27 PM   #4
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Human beings aren't much different than dogs in the end.. Your happy go lucky loves everyone black lab would likely viciously attack an intruder when it senses it's family is under real attack. Humans have shown a propensity to be able to perform unimaginable acts when needed.

The military figured this out after doing detailed analysis of the 2 world wars, Korea and Vietnam. They no longer train with round circular targets, all targets are human sillouletes for a reason.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:28 PM   #5
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The battlefield is in the mind. I've never played video games, but if you want to learn advanced squad tactics, there has always been a reason for Call of Duty style games outside of frills and fun.
Its nothing like a video game
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:35 PM   #6
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Its nothing like a video game
Respectfully, I agree. My point was towards group dynamics on engaging a common target in the same sense as a good flight simulator for a pilot.
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Old 01-10-2018, 10:38 PM   #7
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Yeah, I don't think a video game is going to teach you real world group dynamics/movements/tactics.

Flight simulators however actually do simulate real world flight characteristics of how an actual model of an airplane will handle.. Not Microsoft Flight.. but a real flight simulator.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:08 PM   #8
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Thanks for the post, raises some good questions. I also do not have a military background. I do train with like minded people often. I think the most important thing to me is strong conviction. I made a decision long ago to not live by another’s mercy. Can I pull the trigger ? I have no doubt.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:12 PM   #9
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War is not self defense. Being ordered to shoot at someone across a field who is not personally targeting you and is only the enemy because your leaders say you are enemies is one thing. Being in a situation where someone is trying their best to kill you up close and personal now becomes a "him or me" situation. Those same farm boys that fired over the heads of the enemy doubtless fought as hard as they could when the enemy soldiers were dropping into their trenches and fighting hand to hand.

I dunno about you, but with VERY few exceptions I value my own life over everyone else. Yeah, the other guys may outnumber and outgun me, but if it comes down to it I'll die trying my best to make him/them die first in a self defense situation.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:19 PM   #10
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You may not survive. It's o.k. You're going to die anyway. We all do.

A few years ago I had a wee infection start in my fingertip, by my nail. I think I pulled out a big hangnail. I don't remember.

Anyways, it got infected. BAD. I started to get "the red line" going up my finger. It started to throb.

I'm the type of guy who never goes to the doctor, and I take almost no meds. Well, this was an urgency. I happened to remember a script my dentist gave me to take before I get my teeth cleaned. Just a wee antibiotic. I took 2 of those and the next day, my finger was on the mend.

My point of this rambling is this; We never know what is going to get us. A hangnail, dysentery, a widow maker heart attack, the flu. Or a hungry father.

Worry less about the shoot/don't shoot. If you believe in a god, he will prepare your heart for the trials you must face. When you face them you either rise to the occasion or fall to the circumstances. Deus Vult. (God's will).

Train the best you can. Prepare as you can afford, worry as little as possible and enjoy the little moments. Tomorrow is promised to no man.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:26 PM   #11
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As for training and tactics, you have the home field advantage. Setup your property so the terrain and manmade features funnel anyone coming at you into narrow "kill zones" you can devastate when needed. You setup scenarios and defend against them with the people who will be with you there. "Force on force" training where you have opposing teams of players armed with paintball or airsoft guns going at each other can be very helpful in determining what works and what doesn't.

Also setup things so no one knows you have anything worth taking. You know when you told your co-worker or neighbor about how you were starting to stockpile canned food and you now have a 6 month supply? Their first thought was "If the shit ever does hit the fan, I'm going to HIS house!" If you have a generator running it can be heard a long ways away, ditto for seeing light at night when all the power is out.

Do you share if someone you know or a truly needy stranger shows up and asks instead of trying to take? It's up to each individual's conscience, but there is a reason you prepared to survive. They didn't.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:27 PM   #12
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Pulling the trigger is the easy part. Living with the consequences is a bitch.

And IanMor covered the rest quite elequently.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:29 PM   #13
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Also read On killing, it is rather eye opening.
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Old 01-10-2018, 11:55 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by IanMor View Post
You may not survive. It's o.k. You're going to die anyway. We all do.

A few years ago I had a wee infection start in my fingertip, by my nail. I think I pulled out a big hangnail. I don't remember.

Anyways, it got infected. BAD. I started to get "the red line" going up my finger. It started to throb.

I'm the type of guy who never goes to the doctor, and I take almost no meds. Well, this was an urgency. I happened to remember a script my dentist gave me to take before I get my teeth cleaned. Just a wee antibiotic. I took 2 of those and the next day, my finger was on the mend.

My point of this rambling is this; We never know what is going to get us. A hangnail, dysentery, a widow maker heart attack, the flu. Or a hungry father.

Worry less about the shoot/don't shoot. If you believe in a god, he will prepare your heart for the trials you must face. When you face them you either rise to the occasion or fall to the circumstances. Deus Vult. (God's will).

Train the best you can. Prepare as you can afford, worry as little as possible and enjoy the little moments. Tomorrow is promised to no man.
This is the best post I've read anywhere for a good while. Well put Ian, thanks man.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:04 AM   #15
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If as you say, it takes 20 years, I won't survive either. I'll be 80.

Maybe I'll still be able to take a few of the fuckers with me.


Accept going into any such scenario that you will die.
Can you take enough of the enemy with you to make it worthwhile?

For every enemy I take out, I figure one, or two, or twenty of my compatriots will survive to take the fight to the enemy.

DO NOT minimize the effect that early damage to the enemy can have on the outcome. It is the most vital time.

Do what you must, when you must, and that includes going on the offensive.
Getting at the enemy on his way to you, or before he plans to get to you, is the best strategy.

Be a man and maybe you will come out the other side.
Wars are survived by many who thought they were dead many times.
The dead often never thought they'd be hit.
Just how it is.

Just be a man.
That's the best any of us can do.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:07 AM   #16
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You may not survive. It's o.k. You're going to die anyway. We all do.

A few years ago I had a wee infection start in my fingertip, by my nail. I think I pulled out a big hangnail. I don't remember.

Anyways, it got infected. BAD. I started to get "the red line" going up my finger. It started to throb.

I'm the type of guy who never goes to the doctor, and I take almost no meds. Well, this was an urgency. I happened to remember a script my dentist gave me to take before I get my teeth cleaned. Just a wee antibiotic. I took 2 of those and the next day, my finger was on the mend.

My point of this rambling is this; We never know what is going to get us. A hangnail, dysentery, a widow maker heart attack, the flu. Or a hungry father.

Worry less about the shoot/don't shoot. If you believe in a god, he will prepare your heart for the trials you must face. When you face them you either rise to the occasion or fall to the circumstances. Deus Vult. (God's will).

Train the best you can. Prepare as you can afford, worry as little as possible and enjoy the little moments. Tomorrow is promised to no man.
If you had done some hot soaks early on, you wouldn't have needed antibiotics in all likelihood.

Prevention of infections is vital in a survival situation.
At least minimizing them.

Early intervention can save your life in the event you have one.

There's a thread here on "What's Going to Kill You."
It's a sticky.
In case anyone is interested.

There is also one on Survival Meds.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:19 AM   #17
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Also read On killing, it is rather eye opening.

Very good book. I recommend it as well.
I though the about the same book when I read the OP's post.

I am also in a firm believer in you can never say what you would do in a particular situation, only what you should do.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:11 AM   #18
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Default Worry less

Prepare more.

#1 Prep = You....Mental/Spiritual/Physical

After that it's all repetition.

This is a DEEP, DEEP subject. And is covered infinitium on YouTube.

But in reality your more likely to killed driving to work. Than face a horde of looter/zombies.

So chill. Improve your life and family time. Live well and don't be an asshole.

Now if you really, really want to be a bad ass and storm the castle and rule the land.
Your still young enough to serve in the Navy/Army/AF. And then go onto a PMC career.

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Old 01-11-2018, 02:15 AM   #19
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I might not survive for the long term but I damn sure won't be the first to die.
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Old 01-11-2018, 02:28 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by specz79 View Post
Also read On killing, it is rather eye opening.
Iím gonna order this. Thanks for the suggestion.


On everything else, I know one can never know with great certainty how you would act in any given situation. I donít really worry about it. It was more of a mental adventure.

I feel most people tend to focus more on the weapons, ammo, and preps and such. I do as well but there is another side that I feel many people overlook and thatís the mental game. It canít be easy to shoot someone. It canít be second nature to keep your shit in a major survival situation.
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Old 01-11-2018, 05:14 AM   #21
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Focus on enjoying your life instead of doomsday. It's never going to happen. If you want a better chance of survival in general just do some good cadio workouts 2x a week. Most people will probably die of diabetes or heart failure.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:14 AM   #22
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They no longer train with round circular targets, all targets are human sillouletes for a reason.
That is how a person becomes desensitized, simple yet effective training.
Ammo, get a bunch of silhouette targets, a life size zombie torso and some mannequins if you can.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LifeSize-Bl....c100752.m1982
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:04 PM   #23
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That is how a person becomes desensitized, simple yet effective training.
Ammo, get a bunch of silhouette targets, a life size zombie torso and some mannequins if you can.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/LifeSize-Bl....c100752.m1982

I don't do this. I could see it's effectiveness. I will pick some up this weekend.
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Old 01-11-2018, 12:35 PM   #24
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If you have family, think what can happen to them if you can't kill for their/your survival.

If you can't kill, then your breed/DNA wasn't meant to live anyway. If you weren't meant to live, why worry about it. Be considerate, and dig your hole so they don't have to work hard to bury you.

As for me, I don't like digging or dying. Plus, there are a lot of Liberal assholes who need putting down. They will be the real reason for the war anyway.

If you plan on living, that's good.

BTW, learn how to shot accurately and fast. Missing is not an option.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:11 PM   #25
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You need to change your entire mindset. You also should start thinking more positively. In other words, your whole outlook and attitude is going to decide your fate or the survival/fail ordeal.
Forget about the movies and the video games. Basic survival means you and your loved ones and it shouldn't revolve around groups of like minded individuals for the aforementioned reasons. You said it yourself in your opening statement
Quote:
...and desperate people are fucking dangerous.
Make a plan. Granted, we all have different plans and ways of thinking. Nobody is actually right or wrong until they really know that their plan didn't work out and by then it's too late to worry about it or change plans. You just stick to your guns, your instincts and as someone else has previously stated "the battlefield is in the mind" so prepare yourself for everything that you can.
Since you can even discuss these concepts, you've taken the first step to not being totally unprepared which a vast majority of folks will be.
Could you pull the trigger? While being a veteran myself, I would say that having military training is very advantageous. Thing is, if you want to survive, you might just have to pull the trigger and you had better not have second thoughts about it. Five year old children kill plenty of people in other parts of the world. They have no qualms about doing it. You just have to see the reality behind a lot of things. You do or you don't. Accepting reality doesn't require negative thinking. It may be some things you'd rather not think about, but is still reality. Positive thinkers survive.
I could go on for the next hour and another full page reply, but I might repeat myself several times.
Just think about what's been said here in this thread for a while. Dispute some of the advice if you want to. I think this may end up being very productive in a lot of ways.
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Old 01-11-2018, 01:44 PM   #26
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When the time comes, my actions will not be by choice... but of necessity. Hopefully your sack will drop before then.

To the crowd that believes simulations are not beneficial.. this is an individual thing. Window lickers ain't gonna stop lickin for shtf, but many others who would've been clueless otherwise gets a glimpse.

Airsoft/mil sim guys will not only have had a glimpse.. they'll be physically more apt... crawling, crouching, stalking, packing, and grinding when necessary.

Glimpse- when you are hunting man and being hunted by man. I suggest this simulation as it introduces the most adrenaline.. then control it.
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Old 01-11-2018, 05:23 PM   #27
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Everything you do, every minute is only life extension, hypoxia gets us all in the end.

Do what you gotta do and live and die with the results.
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:20 PM   #28
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I also will not survive. I do promise you though, I am not going to hell alone!
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Old 01-11-2018, 06:34 PM   #29
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I have had a lot of time off over the last month. With the holidays and all work has been slow, and when things are slow I find it incredibly easy to let my mind wander. Given the countless threads on this forum concerning a ďRevolution 2.0Ē my mind has gone over the subject numerous times.

I consider it a very real possibility. Itís not a certainty but I do think there is an extremely high chance in the next 20 years to see a MAJOR nationwide clash of political/racial/ worldview affiliations. A conflict to the point that basic services shut down. No power, water, food, waste disposal, etc., basic SHTF stuff. When you take away even basic thing like power and food, people become desperate...


...and desperate people are fucking dangerous.



So, I thought, ďCould I pull the trigger?Ē Do I have the ability to take the life of someone who in all honesty may just be trying to feed his family? Would I hesitate, in that crucial moment, to put a bullet in someone I may have even known for years?


I have no military experience. I have never fired a single shot in anger. I have never had a living, breathing person in my sight picture. I have tried to imagine myself in those situations, but itís just that, imagination. I remember hearing a documentary about soldiers in WWI. They would grab these boys off of farms and small towns in rural America and throw them into the fire so to speak...and they would choke. They couldnít pull the trigger. They had been raised to believe that taking human life was wrong. They couldnít reconcile with the fact that they now had to kill someone whom they had never met. They hesitated


A lot of kids probably died for that very reason.



In addition, given my lack of military experience, I donít know the first fucking thing about actual combat. I can work an AK. I can work an AR. Iím not a bad shot either. Got shit tons of ammo. Iím sure thereís a ton of dead men in the deserts and jungles who were better shots than I am. Combat has to be more than bullets and bombs, right?

I have heard it said that the mind is the greatest weapon. I would assume that would insinuate that outthinking your opponent is crucial to victory. How do I, some dumb 32 year old from Southern Indiana, outplay someone who probably has better shit than me, more shit than me, and probably by that time killed someone. How do you train for that???

How do you train for this crap? How do you prepare yourself to be able to pull the trigger on another person? How to I train myself to outthink other people?


How do I prepare?



History is written by the victors. I would like to be there at the end. I would like those with me to be there at the end. I would like all of you to be there at the end. I just think I may be kidding myself. If America needs blood to get to the next century, Iíd rather it be their blood and not mine.
Are you asking about evaluating hostile intent and a kind of unofficial "rules of engagement" post SHTF? Or simply the act of employing weapons in self defense?

To the second question those who have been LEOs or in the military will tell you this - it's about muscle memory gained by training. Killing someone, even in self defense, is an unnatural act unless you're some kind of sociopath. You have to train to the point that you're not consciously thinking of shooting another human being, you're simply engaging a target. Drill, drill, drill. Then drill again.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:10 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by def90 View Post
Human beings aren't much different than dogs in the end.. Your happy go lucky loves everyone black lab would likely viciously attack an intruder when it senses it's family is under real attack. Humans have shown a propensity to be able to perform unimaginable acts when needed.

The military figured this out after doing detailed analysis of the 2 world wars, Korea and Vietnam. They no longer train with round circular targets, all targets are human sillouletes for a reason.
Had the little Ivan sillouletes when I was in. same effect with the miles gear any "shooting" other people.
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As for training and tactics, you have the home field advantage. Setup your property so the terrain and manmade features funnel anyone coming at you into narrow "kill zones" you can devastate when needed. You setup scenarios and defend against them with the people who will be with you there. "Force on force" training where you have opposing teams of players armed with paintball or airsoft guns going at each other can be very helpful in determining what works and what doesn't.

Also setup things so no one knows you have anything worth taking. You know when you told your co-worker or neighbor about how you were starting to stockpile canned food and you now have a 6 month supply? Their first thought was "If the shit ever does hit the fan, I'm going to HIS house!" If you have a generator running it can be heard a long ways away, ditto for seeing light at night when all the power is out.

Do you share if someone you know or a truly needy stranger shows up and asks instead of trying to take? It's up to each individual's conscience, but there is a reason you prepared to survive. They didn't.
The way you set up your defenses can make a huge difference. Yes making your place not worth hitting helps.

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Pulling the trigger is the easy part. Living with the consequences is a bitch.

And IanMor covered the rest quite elequently.
Yes
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:00 AM   #31
RunsWithScissors
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-Buy blue paint

-Watch Braveheart

-?

-Profit.
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Old 01-12-2018, 12:08 AM   #32
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More often than not you will do what you have trained to do....

If you have no training-more than likely that will be what you do.
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Old 01-12-2018, 04:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by chknfkr View Post
Pulling the trigger is the easy part. Living with the consequences is a bitch.

And IanMor covered the rest quite elequently.
An English teacher I had back in high school told me a story about when he was in Vietnam. His squad had gotten into a firefight and all hell had broken loose in that jungle. They weren't quite sure where the hostile fire was coming from.

He said that for a brief second all the fire stopped and he could see some movement in a tree ahead of his position. He fired, and down fell a body. After the firefight he found the guy he shot...


"He was a baby. Couldn't have been more than 13 years old."


Found out years after I graduated that he had drank himself to death. Yea, I could find it easy enough to kill someone that was trying to kill me or mine.

It's the aftermath of it that concerns me. I think a lot of times, especially on the right, we tend to romanticize the idea of a conflict such as a Revolution 2.0. Never really considering the fact all of the unimaginable shit that we would need to do/see.
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The "alt right" is too liberal for me....
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:24 PM   #34
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Also read On killing, it is rather eye opening.
^^^ Read this.
Then read "On Combat" by the same author, Lt Col Dave Grossman.

Your concerns are valid. They are addressed intimately in those 2 books.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:42 PM   #35
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-Buy blue paint

-Watch Braveheart

-?

-Profit.
"Every man dies. Not every man truly lives"

All of us are going to die.

I prepare myself mentally by asking who dies? Me and/or my family, or the dude coming at me. I think of my 4 kids, and it's an easy choice.
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