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Old 01-09-2017, 12:21 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Mrgunsngear View Post
All of that either requires more time or money which is probably an issue for him as he probably loses money on all his gel tests with the size of his channel. In fact, I'm sure he's losing money doing them.
Not really. I agree with Meataxe556. Shooting at 20 feet doesn't tell me much. Move it out to 50 or 100 yards. Moving a gel block isn't going to close him more money and the only time it will take is the time to walk the distance to place it and then walk back.

As RobSki says, the small check YouTube sends you small channels that only get 5-15k views doesn't cover the costs to make money. RobSki is doing it for the community, not to make money.
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Old 01-09-2017, 12:26 PM   #107
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YES, except the right arrow instead leads off the logo and becomes the terminal wound cavity with all those pieces blown all over, that'd be sick

And 8m3 written somewhere
I was going to put "EFFECT" somewhere near the bottom, but I think the simplistic look will sell better.

I already have stuff that is "in your face" and it doesn't sell as well.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:55 PM   #108
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Trench -- " I Want My 8M3" I'd buy one. Also the Uly symbol with or without 8M3. Personally I like the more subtle stuff like "My favorite color is Bakelite." I also have one that says something like "$5.45 Sale from Plum Furniture!"

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Old 01-09-2017, 07:58 PM   #109
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I agree w others who are giving props to Chopping Bloc. For a long time Plouffe was the only one producing usable information on newer AK loads from 16" barrels as well as 10.5" barrels. (Thank you guns n gear). Also props to Ammo Channel and Wound Channel and the incomparable TNOUTDOORS9 channel.

Chopping Bloc is doing a great job in line w other rifle gel tests. Keep it up CB and let's support him.
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Old 01-09-2017, 08:10 PM   #110
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Not really. I agree with Meataxe556. Shooting at 20 feet doesn't tell me much. Move it out to 50 or 100 yards. Moving a gel block isn't going to close him more money and the only time it will take is the time to walk the distance to place it and then walk back.

As RobSki says, the small check YouTube sends you small channels that only get 5-15k views doesn't cover the costs to make money. RobSki is doing it for the community, not to make money.
Personally I'm interested in what happens in short distances because for HD I am not shooting at 50+ yard targets.

Others certainly may have other desired uses.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:03 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by ahillock View Post
Not really. I agree with Meataxe556. Shooting at 20 feet doesn't tell me much. Move it out to 50 or 100 yards. Moving a gel block isn't going to close him more money and the only time it will take is the time to walk the distance to place it and then walk back.

As RobSki says, the small check YouTube sends you small channels that only get 5-15k views doesn't cover the costs to make money. RobSki is doing it for the community, not to make money.
I'm sure the 100 yard test would be fun to see. For those that want that, head out and get that done for us.
I think many here fail to understand the standardized bullet tests, rifle or pistol, are done at 30 feet. A 60 foot test is also protocol, but it is a secondary test. The gel is supposed to be calibrated and a certain temp that has not been exposed to outside air for more than so many minutes, and on and on.
These guys do the test that the FBI would do if they were inclined so that there is a consistent, measurable, and repeatable set of perimeters.
There ia a lot more to it, if you want what are considered "proper" results, than going out and shooting a block of jello.
Thanks to The Chpping Block and MrGuns for the effort they put into all of this.
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Old 01-09-2017, 09:09 PM   #112
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I'll see if RMiller can set up a 100 meter test and a Draco test at 50.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:26 AM   #113
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I've only tested it out of my OPAP with a 6X primary arms scope. I agree, not great, but that's what I got. I don't think it was me either, I was printing 1 MOA with the AR in the same sitting.
Just out of curiosity, what triggers do you have installed in your rifles? I noticed a HUGE decrease in group size when I installed the ALG trigger in my WASR. It brought my ability to control the trigger to within spitting distance of the Hiperfire 3G of my AR. The Tapco G2 was great and all, but not what I was used to with the AR.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:56 AM   #114
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Just a regular Tapco G2. Nothing special but not the worst either. I'm going to test out the 8M3 in more rifles, specifically my HD WASR to compare accuracy and muzzle flash to SST.

I still think this 8M3 is great stuff for the price but for now I'm keeping SST in my HD mags.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:26 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by ahillock View Post
Not really. I agree with Meataxe556. Shooting at 20 feet doesn't tell me much. Move it out to 50 or 100 yards. Moving a gel block isn't going to close him more money and the only time it will take is the time to walk the distance to place it and then walk back.

As RobSki says, the small check YouTube sends you small channels that only get 5-15k views doesn't cover the costs to make money. RobSki is doing it for the community, not to make money.
More hard drive space = $

A missed or off center shot = $

Extra time setting up shots = opportunity cost to do other videos at the range = $

Rob runs a business and in order to continue doing so he needs to make money. Good for him and I'm very happy he's doing so. In fact, I hope his business goes wild and he makes millions while simultaneously providing good information and entertainment to the community.

I simply don't understand why people, who are generally conservative free market supporting individuals, think others shouldn't make money on anything gun related.
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Old 01-10-2017, 02:37 PM   #116
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Anybody willing to do a pork shoulders covered with 4 layers of denim test at 50 and 100 yards? That would be great to see.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:06 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Mrgunsngear View Post
More hard drive space = $

A missed or off center shot = $

Extra time setting up shots = opportunity cost to do other videos at the range = $
Hard drive space has never been cheaper. Without even spending much time looking online right now, you can get 4 TB for ~$100 online. $25 per 1TB is incredible pricing. So cost really isn't an issue. Not like hard drives spoil (especially if you get a quality one).

Missed or off center shot? Don't miss.

Time spent setting up a shot? Well you are going to spend time setting up a video anyways if you are going to do another video at the range, so might as well spend the time and do the ballistics test right the first time. I mean my goodness, if you are complaining about the extra time to set up a ballistics test takes away from other videos at the range, how many videos do you plan on filming at the range? Quality over quantity.

If ballistics test is done well, the views will come. With so many gun channels out there, you guys are fighting each other reviewing many of the same guns from the same manufacturer anyways. Looking at your channel history, some of your more popular videos are the ballistics tests. You were getting 30,000-60,000 views for those videos, when you were really doing a lot of them 3-4 years ago. Even after the growth of your subscribers, you are still at the 5,000-30,000 range for most of your gun reviews now. Seems like those ballistic gel tests were some of the most popular and most viewed videos you have done in your channel's history. There is a reason for that.
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Old 01-10-2017, 04:47 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by Mrgunsngear View Post
More hard drive space = $

A missed or off center shot = $

Extra time setting up shots = opportunity cost to do other videos at the range = $

Rob runs a business and in order to continue doing so he needs to make money. Good for him and I'm very happy he's doing so. In fact, I hope his business goes wild and he makes millions while simultaneously providing good information and entertainment to the community.

I simply don't understand why people, who are generally conservative free market supporting individuals, think others shouldn't make money on anything gun related.

Maybe someone should invest in a CZ 527 carbine bolt gun to make sure you don't miss! They're supposed to be pretty damned accurate even in the "inaccurate" 7.62x39 round!

Same 1 / 9.5" rifling as an AK with a slightly longer 18.5" bbl which could be calibrated by distance to replicate a 16" bbl AK bullet velocity striking a target from 100 yards.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-527-carbine-223-rem/
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:33 PM   #119
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been there and done that
http://www.theakforum.net/forums/14-...cz-527s-4.html

just need to order some to test.

the most accurate I shot out of the CZ was the SST and Klimovsk white box that is very hot in the 527. you have to let the rifle set for at least a five count before you cycle the bolt.
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Old 01-11-2017, 08:04 PM   #120
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my experience with 8m3 today: 5 shot 7" group at 300 yards, prone and with iron sights...


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Old 01-11-2017, 09:19 PM   #121
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my experience with 8m3 today: 5 shot 7" group at 300 yards, prone and with iron sights...


Very nice with irons!
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:00 PM   #122
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Very nice with irons!
Thanks dude
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Old 01-11-2017, 11:15 PM   #123
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Thanks dude
Very well done, what is that... under 2.5 MOA with irons, applause
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:04 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by lazyflounder View Post
my experience with 8m3 today: 5 shot 7" group at 300 yards, prone and with iron sights...


That's pretty good with an AK and you are demonstrating the maximum effective range of the weapon and its ammo.

At the rifle range around here if you can't keep 5 rounds inside of a 5 inch white dot at 300 yards you don't get to use the 400, 500 and 600 yard ranges.
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Old 01-12-2017, 06:11 AM   #125
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Thanks for review!
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Old 01-12-2017, 09:46 AM   #126
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Clear gel isn't to spec but still looks cool.
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Old 01-12-2017, 12:07 PM   #127
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Very well done, what is that... under 2.5 MOA with irons, applause
Quote:
Originally Posted by VALMET_M76 View Post
That's pretty good with an AK and you are demonstrating the maximum effective range of the weapon and its ammo.
thanks.. i'm a noob when it comes to longer ranges, but I think it's 2.5 MOA yeah.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:13 PM   #128
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thanks.. i'm a noob when it comes to longer ranges, but I think it's 2.5 MOA yeah.
That's some nice shooting. I can see a gong at 100 yards, but barely at 200 yards and 300, forget it.

I assume you used a 6 o'clock hold. That gong must have looked like a pinprick on top of that fat factory sight.
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Old 01-12-2017, 08:19 PM   #129
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That's some nice shooting. I can see a gong at 100 yards, but barely at 200 yards and 300, forget it.

I assume you used a 6 o'clock hold. That gong must have looked like a pinprick on top of that fat factory sight.
Depends on gong size. I used to shoot my old VZ24 with it's poor irons out to 450M on a man-sized gong. You could see it, but atmospherics were critical. If the heat wave's climbed the berm to high they would obscure the target.

My spotter loved it. The 8mm gave him his first experience with bullet tracks that were easy to see.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:24 AM   #130
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That's some nice shooting. I can see a gong at 100 yards, but barely at 200 yards and 300, forget it.

I assume you used a 6 o'clock hold. That gong must have looked like a pinprick on top of that fat factory sight.
Yes sir.. 6 0'clock hold and yeah it was getting pretty small at that distance.
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:54 AM   #131
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How about a big thanks to Sam at SGAmmo for bringing this to the market?
This is why I only get my 7.62x39 & 5.45x39 from Sam, usually along with other stuff as well.
Good prices, great shipping costs and the best customer service.

Never mind the 8M3 shirt, I want an SGAmmo shirt in fat guy sizes! Preferably with a pic of a big ol' stack of surplus Yugo M67 & 7N6...

BTW thanks for the gel tests, I like what I see and will be ordering some 8m3 of my own to try in my 16" WASR and 12" Draco. I've never had any malfunctions with the Herter's soft points and it groups just as well as their fmj @ 50 yards but for SD/HD the 8m3 looks better.

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Old 01-13-2017, 01:10 PM   #132
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This ammo looks good, but there are quite a few videos out there demonstrating impressive performance with just plain old steel case FMJ. This one shows the effects on ham, for whatever that's worth. Fast forward to about 4:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7eVH8O7wH8

How would that FMJ perform in gelatin? Is a chunk of ham more representative of tissue damage that gelatin? Any insights appreciated.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:34 PM   #133
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Ham is partially dehydrated, cured, and most times refrigerated. So to answer your question, No.
Fresh off the hoof, it is still more dense in tissue and bone than a people size target.
The gel also gives a consistent, measurable, and repeatable media. It isn't so much as to replicate anything (but is supposed to be the sameish as human muscle tissue), but a consistent media to measure performance. It also is pretty well comparable with real life findings from similar situations. Gel tests on most FMJ is informative because you can see the yaw and twist of the round, just saying.

I'm sure the pork roast films are impressive, but IMHO it would serve better placed on a smoker.
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:02 PM   #134
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Not to dispute the effectiveness of 8m3, but these FMJ also seems to work well to varying degrees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ojqSIMAH-w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8HKd2tDJC0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1l8w2dPPJI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeHh82CnKjY
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Old 01-15-2017, 12:40 PM   #135
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Thanks for doing the test on these 8m3 Tula rounds. I got some from SGA but haven't shot it yet. I think if I had the time, money and gelatin, I would like to set up a gel test at my range from about 50yds using my 7.62x39 AR, simply because it's my most accurate 7.62x39 gun. Reduces the chances of a miss, and aids the use of an optic. I would test;
Tula 8m3
Old blue box 8m3
8hp
Hornady SST
Winchester PDX1
Federal Fusion
M67
125 Wolf polyformance SP (gel test in the AK47 magazine looked promising)
154gr Tula SP
and I am sure there is something else I would want to test.
Also test against barriers, glass plates, bricks, drywall, wood, sheet metal.
Mainly just for kicks and giggles, but under the guise of scientific research, of course. I may apply for a grant.
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Old 01-15-2017, 01:55 PM   #136
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I don't stop by here often enough. I was going to order some more GT until I read it may require a stronger hammer spring in my AR47. So I put some Wolf MC HP on order on Friday. I had been waiting for that to return for a while. This will be on my next order if still available. Looks like the production of it will be ramping up if you read this........"The importer is 'Tulammo USA Inc'. This product SKU is exclusively distributed by SGAmmo.com thru the end of 2017. We hope you enjoy this retro 7.62x39 ammo option that we had resurrected." So they have dibs on the production until Jan 1 2018 then it is out there for other sellers.
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Old 01-15-2017, 07:17 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomJerome View Post
This ammo looks good, but there are quite a few videos out there demonstrating impressive performance with just plain old steel case FMJ. This one shows the effects on ham, for whatever that's worth. Fast forward to about 4:35.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7eVH8O7wH8

How would that FMJ perform in gelatin? Is a chunk of ham more representative of tissue damage that gelatin? Any insights appreciated.
I think people get hung up on gelatin tests sometimes. Gelatin tests are better for testing handgun caliber performance than rifle cartridges.

Handgun ammunition is terrible at killing people, generally speaking a rifle hit through the center goo = hope your life insurance is paid up. There's a youtube video out there of a surgeon's conference and the speaker pretty much admits rifle hits there isn't much they can do and often the patient is DOA. Handguns? People survive that shit all the time. So it makes sense to test it against gelatin to make sure your handgun cartridge is going to be relatively effective. Rifles? Not much need to prove effectiveness.

That said I do see a need for HP behavior out of a rifle cartridge that one desires to hunt or use for home defense so it doesn't over penetrate.
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Old 01-15-2017, 08:09 PM   #138
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DRT won't over penetrate. It will explode a heart in a hog.
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Old 01-17-2017, 10:27 AM   #139
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Out of my SLR-107 with this ammo I got somewhere between a 3.5-4" group at 100 yds using a Primary Arms MD-ADS and very scattered groups at 50...wasn't thrilled. In comparison on the same outing I had some clover leaf groups with GT at 50 and about 2" groups at 100. Next time will try my AR with magnified optic
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Old 01-17-2017, 11:35 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrgunsngear View Post
More hard drive space = $

A missed or off center shot = $

Extra time setting up shots = opportunity cost to do other videos at the range = $

Rob runs a business and in order to continue doing so he needs to make money. Good for him and I'm very happy he's doing so. In fact, I hope his business goes wild and he makes millions while simultaneously providing good information and entertainment to the community.

I simply don't understand why people, who are generally conservative free market supporting individuals, think others shouldn't make money on anything gun related.
Because consumers of the product want to pay less. They don't consider everything that it takes to produce, like: time, effort, possible mistakes, and intangibles like hard drive space or even the gas money required.
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