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Old 01-09-2017, 09:55 PM   #1
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Default Another Vickers ACE (un-neutered)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uys9zd1y-rI

What gets me is something that we have yet to see in any other ACE video to date. Slow motion footage of it in action.

Good slow mo footage, not discount low res camera slow mo. So you can clearly see the shockwave travel through the rifle.

One, the receiver shows zero shockwave flex. Not too unexpected considering the rifle's construction.

What is of note is the barrel whip, which is significant. Now, all barrels whip to some degree but from what I see the harmonic isn't free form. Again, expected because of the gas-block and gas tube design which means the barrel is not free-floating. In some ways I actually believe this is a limiter to the ACE's accuracy. We know the bolt is shipped so tight that it causes accuracy issues until it beds. This was probably an attempt to increase accuracy over the limited bolt interface found on the AK design. One of the limiters in platform accuracy.

The other points I noted was how the energy transferred into the rail and optics mount. Very interesting.

If you take a look at a milled receiver AK pattern you will see similar but less bullwhipping, but as a note the rails shouldn't warp like that.

Anyways, it's good to see a slow motion shot of the ACE pattern.

I agree with him that an issue is that it is overgassed. I wonder if I can drill and tap a restriction into the gas-block.

Last edited by Returned; 01-09-2017 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 01-09-2017, 10:45 PM   #2
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Yes, that was the thing that really stood out to me, was the barrel whip taking place in the slow motion footage.
Definitely would effect accuracy, to some extent.
Obviously, they wanted to keep the weight down, and not put on a heavier barrel.

Sure you could drill and tap in a restriction into the gas block, but it's "overgassed" to compensate to overcome all the filth that could get in and make the gun less reliable, just like the overgassed AKM's and 47's.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:09 PM   #3
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Which is why you'd keep it adjustable rather than fixed. A screw with a machined lever head that can be turned to raise or lower gas levels. Side by side with the Sako you can see the barrel whip difference and the reasonable gas setting. IMO you don't need it overgassed. You need it adjustable gassed. I'd say the Sako was superior to the ACE even though the lineage is familial.
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Old 01-09-2017, 11:42 PM   #4
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Vid is a repost

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Originally Posted by Returned View Post
Which is why you'd keep it adjustable rather than fixed. A screw with a machined lever head that can be turned to raise or lower gas levels. Side by side with the Sako you can see the barrel whip difference and the reasonable gas setting. IMO you don't need it overgassed. You need it adjustable gassed. I'd say the Sako was superior to the ACE even though the lineage is familial.
You could say it's superior based on only that but you don't have the mounting options, 'modern extra shit', and the ACE is lighter, plus the safety is much better for right handed shooters along with the charging handle, plus the gun is better sealed

I'm wondering if what IWI did to hit every market with this ACE 32 was instead of adding complexity to the design by making an adjustable gas tube was to over gas it to ensure that it ate whatever ammo their 2nd and 3rd world customers fed it and kept it 100% over-reliable
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:11 AM   #5
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This is a helpful thread. Just watched it again 3 times and with all that wiggle going on, especially with the rail and wiggle on the M4 I decided to go with a PA 3X Prism scope on my ACE instead of the PA 1-6X24 I have that I've been using. I've got an M3 and M4 that I could use in a pinch but they're dedicated to other rifles. At this point I think the 3X Prism will make a home on it, but if for some reason I don't think it's working out on it I'll just put it on my SAM7sf. Incredible how much flexing is going on there, good post OP, thanks.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:30 AM   #6
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I've got the PA 3x on my ACE as well, hoping to zero it Friday, we'll see

I wonder how much the flex plays into it since I've only seen one guy who had a .5 MOA shift after removing and reinstalling the dust cover, another dude with a .308 on Facebook had a big scope in his, and to test out zero removed the dust cover and reinstalled it, and it held zero at 100

I have no idea what the science is here but I really want to know
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:43 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MAKAK47 View Post
I've got the PA 3x on my ACE as well, hoping to zero it Friday, we'll see

I wonder how much the flex plays into it since I've only seen one guy who had a .5 MOA shift after removing and reinstalling the dust cover, another dude with a .308 on Facebook had a big scope in his, and to test out zero removed the dust cover and reinstalled it, and it held zero at 100

I have no idea what the science is here but I really want to know
I just ordered the 3X from AKOU and the AD QD mount from Primary Arms today so it'll be at least a week for me to get it on and try it. Good luck with yours, post your results and what you think of it.
I also ordered one of these for it today http://www.ebay.com/itm/272128239308...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT The madness never stops....The stock will be next,but for now I can live with it, it's not as bad as I thought but still has to go eventually.
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Old 01-10-2017, 11:57 AM   #8
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Post photos when you're complete with your set up!

My zeroing will be quick and dirty, making sure it's somewhat accurately on paper so I can hunt the next day, I'll be zeroing with about a foot of snow on the ground and temp close to zero, I'd rather not be out all night
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Old 01-10-2017, 12:17 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAKAK47 View Post
Post photos when you're complete with your set up!

My zeroing will be quick and dirty, making sure it's somewhat accurately on paper so I can hunt the next day, I'll be zeroing with about a foot of snow on the ground and temp close to zero, I'd rather not be out all night
LOL got the same weather here but have to tough it out to get it set up, hate winter anymore. Just got a new for me M1a yesterday, it's a pre 94 ban Scout all USGI parts with only 60 rnds through it, want to take it outside and fire it. It's just gorgeous.
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Old 01-10-2017, 06:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAKAK47 View Post
I've got the PA 3x on my ACE as well, hoping to zero it Friday, we'll see

I wonder how much the flex plays into it since I've only seen one guy who had a .5 MOA shift after removing and reinstalling the dust cover, another dude with a .308 on Facebook had a big scope in his, and to test out zero removed the dust cover and reinstalled it, and it held zero at 100

I have no idea what the science is here but I really want to know
In this case it isn't about take on and off zero but zero shift while shooting. In order for the wiggle to not alter your POI you need to let the harmonic settle between shots.

Mind you Larry had a fun switch and we don't but that much wiggle will effect a POI change in rapid semi fire. With a settled rifle you POI would return to zero as the rail does return to it's previous position. It is just shooting it is making it wiggle all over the place like a wet noodle.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:05 PM   #11
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How punishing is that wiggle to an optic do you think?
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:16 PM   #12
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How punishing is that wiggle to an optic do you think?
Very, that wiggle is energy transfer from the shot. That much wiggle is a LOT of energy to send through your optic. Remember how slow motion those shots are then then see the deflection. That's a lot of G's of force.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:38 PM   #13
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Very, that wiggle is energy transfer from the shot. That much wiggle is a LOT of energy to send through your optic. Remember how slow motion those shots are then then see the deflection. That's a lot of G's of force.
Makes me happier I decided to put the PA 3X Prism scope on it. I'll keep my PA 1-6X24 off it, bought it for my SAM7 anyway.
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Old 01-11-2017, 12:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Makes happier I decided to put the PA 3X Prism scope on it. I'll keep my PA 1-6X24 off it, bought it for my SAM7 anyway.
good choice, I should have also added that there is torional stress as well. The energy wave enters the front of the scope while the back remains in place. Kind of like in the span of 2ms warping the front of the scope while holding the rear in a vice.

Not a healthy thing for a precision long range scope over time. Something magnum rated would probably be fine but the shockwave moves differently through a bolt action vs something noodle-like as the ACE seems to be. A good scope can take a beating, but that doesn't mean we should beat the crap out of it without good reason (good reason like firing 300 winmag or 338 lapua).
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