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Old 04-15-2017, 07:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by VALMET_M76 View Post
Exactly correct.

But lots of people do not even bother to consider the resale value of their firearms.

Some people are just looking for something to do with their spare time.
^^^ Yes. Resale value assumes that I will sell a gun.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:24 PM   #37
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But lots of people do not even bother to consider the resale value of their firearms.
And some of us have enough money not to give a crap about the "resale value" of an old bolt action rifle of which millions were made.

LOL.

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Old 04-15-2017, 08:04 PM   #38
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Why would a gunsmith go to all the trouble to move the bolt handle back then not build a bridge over it so a better scope mount could be fastened to the receiver? That's just lazy.
You can't build a bridge over a Mosin or Mannlicher style action.

The bolt handle is moved but that giant lug that the bolt handle was on is still there.

Lazy?

Those builds in the pics took a lot of time and skill.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:59 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by VALMET_M76 View Post
You can't build a bridge over a Mosin or Mannlicher style action.

The bolt handle is moved but that giant lug that the bolt handle was on is still there.

Lazy?

Those builds in the pics took a lot of time and skill.
Yes they did, time better spent on more worthy projects.
Guess it gave them something to do to keep them away from the Wife!!
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:29 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by VALMET_M76 View Post
You can't build a bridge over a Mosin or Mannlicher style action.

The bolt handle is moved but that giant lug that the bolt handle was on is still there.

Lazy?

Those builds in the pics took a lot of time and skill.
I've never felt the work needed to move the bolt handle back, inlet the receiver and bridge the gap in the action is worth the time and effort...but many do it- usually welding in a piece of cut-up receiver but flat tops can be done as well. The Rock Solid mount is so well designed I don't see anything gained with that mod. The new "low profile" style is almost a full inch longer in back making optic positioning that much more flexible (it does get the scope down a tiny bit more- around 50 thou- but the added length is the big plus IMO)

That "giant lug" on which the bolt handle is originally located is a critical safety feature of the MN that is rarely discussed. If a locking lug were to ever fail, that huge chunk of steel locked sideways in the action would prevent the bolt from being blown back through your head. Making that reciever cutout would weaken that area to some extent.

Last edited by tobnpr; 04-16-2017 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:13 AM   #41
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I've never understood all of the butt-hurt over guys "bubba-ing" their Mosins. I have a few Mosin Nagants, some of which are un-molested, and others heavily modified. That being said, in reference to this thread, I can second the OP's opinion of the Archangel stock. It does an effective job of taming the recoil of the Baltic Jack-hammer, and provides a working detachable magazine. I put one on one of my M39's, and have been delighted with it.

This particular Finn came to me with a counter-bored muzzle and a cracked stock. I removed the iron sights, had the barrel cut to 22" and had an 11 degree target crown put on it. I then bead-blasted the barrel and action, then hot-tank blued it. The scope base is a Rock Solid, and I used Warne Maxima rings to secure the Kalinka Optics Veber 4-16x50. I dropped a Timney trigger in it set at 2.5 lbs pull.

The rifle is capable of 2 MOA with mid-eighties era Soviet surplus, and with hand-loads will print 1 MOA all day long.

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Old 04-17-2017, 10:25 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by VALMET_M76 View Post
You can't build a bridge over a Mosin or Mannlicher style action.

The bolt handle is moved but that giant lug that the bolt handle was on is still there.

Lazy?

Those builds in the pics took a lot of time and skill.
Really? I wonder why that is? Please tell me your experiences.



The action came with one of those aluminum mounts that screw down in the front. No thanks.

Quote:
Those builds in the pics took a lot of time and skill.
I'm not disagreeing, they look very nice.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:23 PM   #43
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Really? I wonder why that is? Please tell me your experiences.



The action came with one of those aluminum mounts that screw down in the front. No thanks.



I'm not disagreeing, they look very nice.
Interesting bridge. I guess its not impossible.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:13 PM   #44
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If you're building a Mosin for accuracy it behooves you to squeeze every advantage you can out of the receiver and scope mount. It seems like if you are going to the trouble to notch the receiver for bolt clearance then cut off the existing handle and weld a new one further back on the bolt (all cosmetic improvements) that adding a bridge to tie the scope mount together (stiffens the action too) should have been the end goal all along. Otherwise, what do the mods do to enhance performance?
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:42 AM   #45
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I just don't get the point when you can buy a $300 Savage that will be vastly more precise out of the box. For the cost of doing all this to a Mosin, you could get a Howa 1500 heavy barrel...
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:18 AM   #46
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I just don't get the point when you can buy a $300 Savage that will be vastly more precise out of the box. For the cost of doing all this to a Mosin, you could get a Howa 1500 heavy barrel...
Then you don't understand the mindset of those that want a custom "anything"...and it probably can't be explained to you if you've never poured $$ into restoring an old car, boat etc. that you knew you'd never be able to recoup your investment if sold.

And to correct you- that Savage will NOT be "vastly more precise".

By the same logic, why doesn't everyone just buy a Savage 12LRP instead of hiring a gunsmith to build them a rifle costing three times as much which they're not capable of even shooting the difference?

Because not everyone wants to drive a Ford Fiesta. It'll get you to work, same as a 'Vette, right?

"Only interesting rifles, are interesting"
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:12 AM   #47
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Then you don't understand the mindset of those that want a custom "anything"...and it probably can't be explained to you if you've never poured $$ into restoring an old car, boat etc. that you knew you'd never be able to recoup your investment if sold.

And to correct you- that Savage will NOT be "vastly more precise".

By the same logic, why doesn't everyone just buy a Savage 12LRP instead of hiring a gunsmith to build them a rifle costing three times as much which they're not capable of even shooting the difference?

Because not everyone wants to drive a Ford Fiesta. It'll get you to work, same as a 'Vette, right?

"Only interesting rifles, are interesting"
Oh I understand the custom bit. But most of these bubba'd Mosins look like lipstick on a pig.

Only real exception would be some of the work y'all do. If I had a spare M91/30 Id be sending it to you for some work myself.

Mostly I just cant stand some of the stocks people put them in. The Archangel is just fugly as hell. Try this instead -->> https://www.etsy.com/listing/2114059...?ref=related-6

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Old 04-18-2017, 09:51 AM   #48
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I have a couple of Savages, one of them outshoots everything else I own. I bubbad it too by making an aluminum chassis for it. I still get more satisfaction from shooting .6" groups from my bubba'd mosin or 54r Mauser because I made it happen, not some one else.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:23 AM   #49
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Oh I understand the custom bit. But most of these bubba'd Mosins look like lipstick on a pig.

Only real exception would be some of the work y'all do. If I had a spare M91/30 Id be sending it to you for some work myself.

Mostly I just cant stand some of the stocks people put them in. The Archangel is just fugly as hell. Try this instead -->> https://www.etsy.com/listing/2114059...?ref=related-6


Had a customer send me one of those stocks to use for his build.

Forgetting the hardware store bolts and wing nuts for the adjustable cheek, it was a good thing for him (and bad for me) that he had ordered the action to be epoxy bedded when the build was finished. I knew I was going to have to open up the barrel channel- but the inletting looked like it was done by a beaver on acid. No wonder there's never any "top view" pics of those.

Not really my "cup of tea" so to speak, but with the fluted McGowen and black Cerakote came out looking nice.


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Old 04-21-2017, 08:37 AM   #50
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Why hate on a $150 old rifle that was mass-produced?

Not like they're bubba-ing an expensive or collectible firearm. Most of the Mosin's that get customized are your basic models anyway.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:01 AM   #51
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Why hate on a $150 old rifle that was mass-produced?

Not like they're bubba-ing an expensive or collectible firearm. Most of the Mosin's that get customized are your basic models anyway.
There's a nice modernized Remington in the MP...
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:22 PM   #52
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Why hate on a $150 old rifle that was mass-produced?

Not like they're bubba-ing an expensive or collectible firearm. Most of the Mosin's that get customized are your basic models anyway.
People hate on it for two main reasons:

1: they choose uncommon models, years, makers quite often. Saw many a 28/30, 91, team hacked up

2: they spend $700-1,000+ to get results out a rifle that are worse than what they could have purchased new for $300.

When I see modernized milsurp rifles it is like seeing a Model T with spinner rims
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Old 04-23-2017, 03:57 PM   #53
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When I see modernized milsurp rifles it is like seeing a Model T with spinner rims
Milsurp or modern rifle, what's the diff?

When I see an AR-15 "adorned" with all the Tacticool, NC Star bullshit that one could possibly hang off the 17 rails that the owner screwed onto it- THAT'S the equivalent of spinner rims.

There are still many that appreciate tasteful conversions, whether a Mauser action into a .416 Rigby safari rifle, or a MN into a modern long-range capable target rifle.

I'm about to start on a Remington MN that had been professionally sporterized back in the day... I'll post a pic soon. This was how rifles were built before production rifles- the Winchesters and Remingtons- were even available.

The accuracy of production rifles has increased exponentially over just the last decade due to advances in machining technology. Custom rifles are not all about better accuracy. They're about having a rifle built exactly to the intended purpose and fit for the owner.
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:20 PM   #54
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Why hate on a $150 old rifle that was mass-produced?

Not like they're bubba-ing an expensive or collectible firearm. Most of the Mosin's that get customized are your basic models anyway.
No offense, but our grandparents were saying the same thing about the K98 and Luger bringbacks from ww2. They are no longer $150 rifles, and they will not remain $250 for long either.

We are custodians of history. It is our job to make sure they are ready to go for the next generation.

Thankfully it's soon to be a moot point as both 7.62x54r and the rifles that fire the round are quickly leaving the "budget friendly" category and people will choose a Remington 700 over spending $250 on a 91/30 and another $500 butchering it.
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Old 04-24-2017, 01:56 PM   #55
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Use the safety? On a Mosin? People actually use the safety? I thought the 25-30 lb trigger pull was a defacto safety. lol

Nothing is more depressing to me than anything that is polymer or adjustable on a Mosin.
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:35 PM   #56
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Millions of these things built, do as you wish. I wouldnt go archangel as it needs a magazine....rather have the fixed
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Old 04-24-2017, 06:54 PM   #57
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Millions of these things built, do as you wish. I wouldnt go archangel as it needs a magazine....rather have the fixed
This is why I don't even fight or really debate modders anymore. Comes down to leading a horse to water.. will it drink?

Millions of baseball cards were made, the majority are worth nothing. But some are worth tens of thousands. For someone who does not collect mosin nagants, I understand there is nothing invested for them so it is easy to repeat what they heard from others "millions were made". Saying "millions were made" shows lack of knowledge to the fact many are indeed rare and many in the community would love to have those(not to mention profit to buy another to sporter and then some for yourself).

Then you have folks like Tob, he mods many rifles. He finds rifles already altered or ones with little to no collector value for his projects.

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Old 04-25-2017, 07:53 AM   #58
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^^

Starting this one (Remington). Customer thought it was a poorly done conversion, but I would disagree. The rear dovetail was removed (save for 1/2") expertly- can't feel a thing with my fingertips run over the area where it once was. Rear notch sight fitted to the small section he left remaining, and front bead sweated on:







Many don't know the history of these US made MN's...how our Gov't was "stuck" with who knows how many thousands of these (incl. NEW) when the Czar was overthrown.

No one wanted them. Couldn't move them at ten bucks- eventually reduced them to scrap prices when they were hauled away by the surplus sellers like Bannerman.

Cheap (and unsafe) conversions were done to modern sporting chamberings like the .06 to make them more "attractive". This one was likely done much later, my guess 50's or 60's into a hunting rifle and was anything but a "hack job". It has strong rifling, now it's time to bring it into the 21st century.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:44 AM   #59
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Many of those bannerman conversions are worth some money now oddly.

There's a twist.. yep a modification from a major company added collectible value.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:58 PM   #60
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This is why I don't even fight or really debate modders anymore. Comes down to leading a horse to water.. will it drink?

Millions of baseball cards were made, the majority are worth nothing. But some are worth tens of thousands. For someone who does not collect mosin nagants, I understand there is nothing invested for them so it is easy to repeat what they heard from others "millions were made". Saying "millions were made" shows lack of knowledge to the fact many are indeed rare and many in the community would love to have those(not to mention profit to buy another to sporter and then some for yourself).

Then you have folks like Tob, he mods many rifles. He finds rifles already altered or ones with little to no collector value for his projects.
How many of these are rare? What makes them rare? How would ya know?
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:54 PM   #61
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How many of these are rare? What makes them rare? How would ya know?
I rest my case.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:08 PM   #62
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^^

Starting this one (Remington). Customer thought it was a poorly done conversion, but I would disagree. The rear dovetail was removed (save for 1/2") expertly- can't feel a thing with my fingertips run over the area where it once was. Rear notch sight fitted to the small section he left remaining, and front bead sweated on:







Many don't know the history of these US made MN's...how our Gov't was "stuck" with who knows how many thousands of these (incl. NEW) when the Czar was overthrown.

No one wanted them. Couldn't move them at ten bucks- eventually reduced them to scrap prices when they were hauled away by the surplus sellers like Bannerman.

Cheap (and unsafe) conversions were done to modern sporting chamberings like the .06 to make them more "attractive". This one was likely done much later, my guess 50's or 60's into a hunting rifle and was anything but a "hack job". It has strong rifling, now it's time to bring it into the 21st century.
out of all the mosins to hack up that wasnt one of them.

the reason they werent worth anything then either was that you couldnt get any ammunition then as well. Same thing with AKs when they first became imported.
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Old 04-25-2017, 08:29 PM   #63
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How many of these are rare? What makes them rare? How would ya know?
An SAT M91 fetched like $12,000 or $14,000 I forget which one, and to bubba this would have been another $50 rifle back in the day

Throw away hundreds of dollars if you wish, but that's your choice
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:56 PM   #64
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out of all the mosins to hack up that wasnt one of them.

the reason they werent worth anything then either was that you couldnt get any ammunition then as well. Same thing with AKs when they first became imported.
Not correct.

First offered by the D.C.M. to NRA members in 1921 for $10 and ammo was $8.00 per thousand rounds. Reportedly 125,000 rounds in Ohio, and four MILLION rounds at Benicia Arsenal in CA.

Price was reduced in 1923 to $3.34 ea., and ammo price cut in half to $4.00 per thousand rounds. Krags were still available and cost less, so the MN's still weren't moving- and prices were reduced to scrap to clear them out.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:51 AM   #65
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I just don't get the point when you can buy a $300 Savage that will be vastly more precise out of the box. For the cost of doing all this to a Mosin, you could get a Howa 1500 heavy barrel...
Have you ever compared the Mosin action to a Savage Axis action? I mean the Mosin will withstand a nuclear blast, I doubt the Savage Axis will be anywhere in the same ballpark after 10,000 rounds and a 100 years of alternating abuse and neglect. Precision is neat, but sometimes you just want something that is going to work no matter what.
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:46 AM   #66
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Not correct.

First offered by the D.C.M. to NRA members in 1921 for $10 and ammo was $8.00 per thousand rounds. Reportedly 125,000 rounds in Ohio, and four MILLION rounds at Benicia Arsenal in CA.

Price was reduced in 1923 to $3.34 ea., and ammo price cut in half to $4.00 per thousand rounds. Krags were still available and cost less, so the MN's still weren't moving- and prices were reduced to scrap to clear them out.
I remember brand new surplus American made Mosins at Gibson's Discount Center for $5 each, this was before the GCA 68. I was just a kid, but I have been a gun buff since I was 6.
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Old 05-01-2017, 02:31 PM   #67
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This type of bullshit is why I'm not around here much any longer.

All sorts of folks think they can tell others what to do with individual property. If you want to keep it original, for fuck's sake, buy it from the owner at the price he asks.

Individual property is not a hard concept to grasp.

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Old 05-01-2017, 09:41 PM   #68
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This type of bullshit is why I'm not around here much any longer.

All sorts of folks think they can tell others what to do with individual property. If you want to keep it original, for fuck's sake, buy it from the owner at the price he asks.

Individual property is not a hard concept to grasp.

Josh
Yeah, it's nearly as bad as 7.62x54r.net, where they howl in anguish over someone modifying their own property. The last time I was over there they had a sub-forum for the guys wanting to modify the rifles that they bought and paid for with money they worked for, without being flamed for it. Perhaps a similar sub-forum would be in order here.
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Old 05-02-2017, 12:16 AM   #69
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Yes, maybe a safe space is needed.

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Old 05-02-2017, 02:31 AM   #70
Joshua M. Smith
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Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
Yes, maybe a safe space is needed.

Of course you're the worst.

The way you like to twist words around, you put liberals to shame.

That and your back door dealing. You pitched a bitch to the mods about me advertising after I let my dealer status lapse.

Then, you manipulated things so your buddy advertises here for free in a way that just skirts the rules.

You think you're slick, but you're not. Disgust for you is one main reason I don't bother with this place much any longer.

You pay to be a vendor, and you troll the board. The administrators choose to put up with it. I refuse to engage in such unprofessional behavior.

Keep playing your games. You seem to need to feel better about yourself, and putting on superior airs and manipulating people is how you accomplish that.

At the end of the day, you have to live with you. If you look in the mirror and like what you see, there's really no point in debating it with you, is there?
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