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Old 02-14-2018, 12:43 AM   #1
hoovdizzle
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Default WWSD a la InRange: My Attempt

just finished up my WWSD concept gun. this was a concept introduced by Ian and Karl from InRange considering what Eugene Stoner would come up with were he designing the AR15 in modern times.



here's my copy:



on the scale, naked rifle (no mag, optic, sling etc). i'll be adding a T1 micro/clone:



a few notable parts here i'm sure many AR aficionados would eschew as airsoft or just straight junk:

-GWACS polymer one piece lower
-Faxon pencil barrel (14.5" w/ pinned flash hider (no tax stamp))
-Faxon streamline carbon fiber handguard

it's all the plastic fantastic keeping this thing under 5 lbs, and i'll admit it feels like a toy.

notables from assembly:

1. got the barrel from AIM surplus, they sell these barrels pre drilled for a pinned gas block. after pounding in the roll pin the gas block is not perfectly aligned vertically. test fire tomorrow will see if it cycles correctly.

2. upper and lower fit are VERY tight. had to tap in the takedown pins with a mallet. also, the takedown pins are not captured, which could make field stripping an issue. if you can even get the damned things out.

3. bolt catch took some break in, initially would not lock back with magazine inserted. appears to be loosening up. of course could relieve whatever is in the way since it's plastic.

i found the concept intriguing as it could potentially yield a lightweight yet durable AR. following Ian and Karl's adventures their guns appear to be running without issues after lots of shooting.
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Old 02-14-2018, 09:06 AM   #2
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This is kind of like asking if Mikhail Kalashnikov would have made a modern AK, would look more like the modern railed platforms that we see today, or would he have said, "Nyet! Rifle is fine."

I think Stoner would have tipped his hat to the SCAR and Bren platforms personally. Especially the SCAR H with it's abilities, ruggedness and shootability considering it's weight for a 308.
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:42 PM   #3
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Cool rifle! Hard to believe it’s under 5 lbs.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:42 PM   #4
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Bet most of weight is in barrel.

I am not so sure about those polymer lowers. One good whack and those take down pins could snap the surrounding area. Will stick with aluminum for now...
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:43 AM   #5
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What does the gwacs lower weigh? Curious to know the weight savings over a standard 7075 forged lower with mil spec extension and m4 stock.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:57 AM   #6
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Did mine with a 18' Faxon barrel. Biggest problem I had with the GWACS lower is the pin for the safety. the first one installed did not disable the trigger. Getting that pin lowered was a bitch.
As noted in the other thread, 7# 13 oz, with loaded mag and optics.
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Old 02-15-2018, 11:16 AM   #7
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Stoner didn't create the AR15.

So technically Stoner would defer to his colleagues who did create the AR15

What Stoner did create........was a failure.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:01 PM   #8
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I like what they and the OP are doing. Haven't looked at the WWSD in a bit though.
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Old 02-15-2018, 12:12 PM   #9
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Bet most of weight is in barrel.

I am not so sure about those polymer lowers. One good whack and those take down pins could snap the surrounding area. Will stick with aluminum for now...
doesn't someone make a re-enforced one?
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Old 02-15-2018, 05:00 PM   #10
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Lower without parts installed weighs 1 lb 5 oz
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Old 02-16-2018, 01:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soul rebel View Post
What does the gwacs lower weigh? Curious to know the weight savings over a standard 7075 forged lower with mil spec extension and m4 stock.
GWACS fully assembled is about 4oz lighter than a fully assembled standard m4 lower. Personally, I'll take the extra 4oz and keep the aluminum, stock adjustability, captured take down pins, etc.

OP, how much does the handguard weigh? You running a standard upper with dust cover & FA?

EDIT: Found their 13" carbon rail is about 7.5oz with barrel nut. That's awesome. FWIW, a slickside upper will save about 2oz vs a dust cover & FA upper.

Last edited by 03akkord5spd; 02-16-2018 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by 03akkord5spd View Post
GWACS fully assembled is about 4oz lighter than a fully assembled standard m4 lower. Personally, I'll take the extra 4oz and keep the aluminum, stock adjustability, captured take down pins, etc.

OP, how much does the handguard weigh? You running a standard upper with dust cover & FA?
Thanks! I would agree. That 4 oz isnít worth it to me but still a very cool idea.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:42 PM   #13
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There are some videos of the reciever being run over with a car and shot and it kept running. The aluminum ones bent and were inoperable after being run over. Kind of cool that the stock has a huge compartment for tools and batteries unlike most adjustable ar stocks on the market.

Polymer has been acceptable for sidearms for awhile.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:45 PM   #14
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Hoovdizzle, forgot to mention it looks good and I hope you post up the results after running it.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:20 PM   #15
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Damn, thanks for the heads up on Faxon barrels.

I’ve been waiting for Faxon to email me on more 14.5 pencil barrels, guess they’ve been sending them all to AIM.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:32 PM   #16
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Damn, thanks for the heads up on Faxon barrels.

Iíve been waiting for Faxon to email me on more 14.5 pencil barrels, guess theyíve been sending them all to AIM.
I know that righttobear.com had them at one time, also.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 75gmAbody View Post
There are some videos of the reciever being run over with a car and shot and it kept running. The aluminum ones bent and were inoperable after being run over.
Karl's torture video of the GWACS lower didn't have them testing aluminum lowers in it, just GWACS. Aluminum receivers can be ran over just fine but the buffer tubes are the weak point. If they get bent you're up the creek. Polymer also responds better to getting shot vs marred up aluminum.

GWACS has their blemished lowers for $85 sometimes. I've enjoyed the WWSD series very much. Nice lightweight rig, OP. It's only about 10oz heavier than a 15-22! Thanks for sharing.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:39 PM   #18
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I did get a blemished lower and although functionally it works fine, around the butt plate was an area that had gaps. Also took awhile to get one. If I had to do again, would just buy a non-blem.
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:54 PM   #19
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After I sold my first AR I set out to build my 2nd with very similar goals to what Inrange set out to do although I built mine 4 years ago. I lived in Arizona for a time and various outings to the southern part of the state convinced me that I needed to put an effort into being as light weight as possible while not sacrificing any durability/reliability. Mine came in at 5lbs 10oz without optics, mags or any accessories.

My build is as follows;
Lower
Standard receiver
RRA LPK
Geissele Enhanced Trigger
Spikes buffer tube kit with T2 buffer
Vltor Imod stock
Tango Down grip

Upper
Aero upper with no FA
Daniel Defense lightweight midlength CHF 16” barrel
Daniel Defense BCG
BCM KMR rail
BCM CH
low pro gas block
A2 birdcage

The barrel, handguard, stock and upper are really all that I changed to save weight. Overall I’m much happier with the weight and overall feel of the gun.

Last edited by paulbow; 02-18-2018 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 02-22-2018, 10:15 PM   #20
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OP-did you use the same trigger that they did? If that trigger lives up to what they say I want to pick one up.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
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OP-did you use the same trigger that they did? If that trigger lives up to what they say I want to pick one up.
Nope, I used a Geiselle SSA. I really like the SSA.

I also noticed after assembly that the handguard was shifting slightly under impact near the muzzle. Faxon has a new barrel nut ring en route to me to attempt to remedy the problem. The handguard attaches with a standard barrel nut with a sleeve around it that the screws attach to.

Hopefully the new ring will fix it. After thatís remedied I should be able to test fire it this week.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:58 PM   #22
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Hoozdizzle, did you get the handgaurd sorted out?

Did you get to run it yet and put it through its paces?
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:00 PM   #23
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I actually wanted a gwacs to build sometime. There was one for sale locally I almost snagged, but it was zombie green. I know I could have painted it. Still the green got to me haha.

Nice build. Looks like a hoot.
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Old 03-16-2018, 03:58 AM   #24
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Hoozdizzle, did you get the handgaurd sorted out?

Did you get to run it yet and put it through its paces?
Ended up having to send the handguard back to Faxon. Iím hoping the replacement is in the mail. If it arrives this week Iíll be able to get it reassembled and provide a range report.
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Old 03-16-2018, 05:29 AM   #25
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Dam that's lite!
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:56 AM   #26
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Ended up having to send the handguard back to Faxon. Iím hoping the replacement is in the mail. If it arrives this week Iíll be able to get it reassembled and provide a range report.
Hope it works out for you. Mine is tight and no shifting.
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Old 03-16-2018, 10:38 AM   #27
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Hope it works out for you. Mine is tight and no shifting.
rock on, bro. hopefully my next one will be as well.
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Old 03-16-2018, 09:33 PM   #28
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just finished up my WWSD concept gun...

on the scale, naked rifle (no mag, optic, sling etc)...
Where did they come up with the idea that Eugene Stoner was completely and totally obsessed with light weight???

None of his later designs like the SR-25 would lead you to believe that.
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Old 03-17-2018, 05:06 AM   #29
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Where did they come up with the idea that Eugene Stoner was completely and totally obsessed with light weight???

None of his later designs like the SR-25 would lead you to believe that.
I donít think they necessarily thought Stoner was obsessed with weight, itís just a natural progression because of whatís available today.
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:20 AM   #30
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I donít think they necessarily thought Stoner was obsessed with weight, itís just a natural progression because of whatís available today.
I didn't watch all the vids, but I understand the premise to be, part-by-part, what would Eugene Stoner do to build an AR using today's technology.

What I'm seeing is, part-for-part, things that definitely aren't my style, and also that I really don't think Eugene Stoner would actually do.

Like, CavArms lower? Seriously???
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:45 AM   #31
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I didn't watch all the vids, but I understand the premise to be, part-by-part, what would Eugene Stoner do to build an AR using today's technology.

What I'm seeing is, part-for-part, things that definitely aren't my style, and also that I really don't think Eugene Stoner would actually do.

Like, CavArms lower? Seriously???
watch the vid where they kick the shit out of that thing. go to the last few minutes for the real goodness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjhvi8c0MF4

same principle as pmags vs GI: cracks vs bending allow the part to continue functioning.

i'm not saying this lower is the end all, or even necessarily an ideal option, but it's definitely an interesting experiment.

lotsa guns out there with plastic lowers nowadays.
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Old 03-17-2018, 10:44 PM   #32
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If ya'll aren't familiar with InRange, they fully admit that they're just dudes on the internet who shoot a lot but aren't experts and while most of their videos are pretty straightforward they don't take themselves too seriously. Whenever they test something out and they like it they give it the "InRange TV stamp of hubris".

I've watched all of the WWSD series to date. I'm still a tad apprehensive about the GWACS but they've at least got me convinced it's worth a try. I would like to build a version at some point.
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Old 03-18-2018, 10:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
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If ya'll aren't familiar with InRange, they fully admit that they're just dudes on the internet who shoot a lot but aren't experts and while most of their videos are pretty straightforward they don't take themselves too seriously.
I watch every Forgotten Weapons, but this is the first time I've started watching InRange.

It seems like the academic approach that Ian takes to FW is missing here, and what little discussion there is, is disappointing...

"What handguard would Stoner choose?"

Well Stoner was completely and totally obsessed with light weight- so Carbon Fiber!

"What barrel would Stoner choose?"

Well Stoner was completely and totally obsessed with light weight- so micro pencil!


Nope. Click.
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:03 AM   #34
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The main idea pushing the project is that Stoner & his team used newer "cutting edge" materials - aluminum and plastics. So taking that same idea of using "cutting edge" materials and applying it to today's tech leads to using a carbon fiber handguard, polymer lower, etc.

The idea of using a pencil barrel is the smallest departure from the A1 considering it had a pencil style barrel to begin with.
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:57 AM   #35
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Be careful tapping the takedown pins with a mallet. I had a polymer lower that was also tight and after tapping in multiple times one of the ears finally broke off the lower.
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