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Old 01-14-2018, 11:04 AM   #1
mauser416
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Default ComBloc quality

I hear this phrased used and alluded to quite a bit. Based on my interactions with FSR/CIS quality I would say that they must have done things better in the olden days.

I've seen tests done on "ComBloc" parts kits assembled by someone competent. Has anyone done a torture test on an issued gun? I've seen clips of guys "training" with Spetsnaz Alpha or something similar. You'd think they could also do an actual test of the guns as well.

Is anyone aware of a video or summary or torture test of an actual Russian, Polish, etc. issued gun?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:22 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by mauser416 View Post
I hear this phrased used and alluded to quite a bit. Based on my interactions with FSR/CIS quality I would say that they must have done things better in the olden days.

I've seen tests done on "ComBloc" parts kits assembled by someone competent. Has anyone done a torture test on an issued gun? I've seen clips of guys "training" with Spetsnaz Alpha or something similar. You'd think they could also do an actual test of the guns as well.

Is anyone aware of a video or summary or torture test of an actual Russian, Polish, etc. issued gun?
Combloc guns have been torture tested for 60 plus years on the battlefield, and their still in demand. Enough proof you need to make the determination that they work.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by mauser416 View Post
I hear this phrased used and alluded to quite a bit. Based on my interactions with FSR/CIS quality I would say that they must have done things better in the olden days.

I've seen tests done on "ComBloc" parts kits assembled by someone competent. Has anyone done a torture test on an issued gun? I've seen clips of guys "training" with Spetsnaz Alpha or something similar. You'd think they could also do an actual test of the guns as well.

Is anyone aware of a video or summary or torture test of an actual Russian, Polish, etc. issued gun?
Are you kidding us, OP?

Where have you been for the past decade?

Our guys over in Iraq & Afghanistan routinely seized original type 1 AK-47s from the enemy ( which were about 60 years old at the time ) in perfectly functional condition.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:50 PM   #4
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I've been in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, China, Egypt and Turkmenistan and have seen the "quality work" first hand. I've handled bring back guns from Grenada et. al. and not been impressed with the "quality work". Do they still function.. sure they do. I've also seen newer guns that are tested and which continue to function yet fail the NO-GO test.

You could use a similar X number of years argument about the M16 but I've seen one of those fail after one day of improper use at the range while the XM15E1 I was issued soldiered on.

I've also seen posts were one gun is a "piece of junk" after one thousand rounds because a rivet has come lose but in contrast, a brand new gun that has a lose rivet is just fine because it is one of the "good brands".

I've seen Russian and Chinese material come out of foundries that has passed QA/QC, adheres to GOST but is total junk.

So I'm just a bit curious to know if someone has conducted a torture test and completed the same after action scrutiny. I fully appreciate the design and the fact taht the guns work. I asked about issued guns not Saiga made for the export market.

Last edited by mauser416; 01-14-2018 at 04:58 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:05 PM   #5
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I've been in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, China, Egypt and Turkmenistan and have seen the "quality work" first hand. I've handled bring back guns from Grenada et. al. and not been impressed with the "quality work". Do they still function.. sure they do. I've also seen newer guns that are tested and which continue to function yet fail the NO-GO test.

You could use a similar X number of years argument about the M16 but I've seen one of those fail after one day of improper use at the range while the XM15E1 I was issued soldiered on.

I've also seen posts were one gun is a "piece of junk" after one thousand rounds because a rivet has come lose but in contrast, a brand new gun that has a lose rivet is just fine because it is one of the "good brands".

I've seen Russian and Chinese material come out of foundries that has passed QA/QC, adheres to GOST but is total junk.

So I'm just a bit curious to know if someone has conducted a torture test and completed the same after action scrutiny. I fully appreciate the design and the fact taht the guns work. I asked about issued guns not Saiga made for the export market.
Well if you been to all those countries and handled “issued “ AKs and were not impressed then i guess you answered your own questions?
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:25 PM   #6
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I did not say that I have handled AK's in all of those countries. I have seen and had to deal with the output of their industrial capabilities.

I have seen good M-16's fail when they are abused and I have seen old "M-16's" continue to serve when used properly.

Torture tests are just that... torture. Rob Ski et. al. have provided us with excellent feedback on several AK's out there. Having seen Soviet as well as current Russian manufacturing output it makes me wonder. How would an 1980 issue or 2010 issue AK stand up to Rob's test?

Some folks have access to do such a test. I figure if they can video an Alpha group's training maybe they have also had the opportunity to put a gun through the paces the hard way. Maybe a video or such a test exists and I have not seen it.

If a knew this or had data I would not ask but would share. The internet is a source of junk data and myths perpetuated in many cases.

My background is four+ years in the US Army and then several years working in foreign countries helping them building oil refinery process units. I see cast, forged and welded steel and alloy components in multi-million dollar process units which handle hazardous materials such as hydrofluoric acid and the quality at times is scary. I have good friends who grew up in the Soviet Union and served in the Soviet Army, who also indicate that the quality back then was not any better. I lived/worke din Belarus for 20 months and got to know guys who served there. Being vets we had a common bond and discussed things like AK vs. M-17 or T-62 vs M-60 or M-1. Breakdowns, lack of spares, poor equipment. etc. were common complaints.
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:43 PM   #7
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Is that you Uli?
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Old 01-14-2018, 09:55 PM   #8
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Buy a Kel-Tec and move on. I hear tjey have a wonderful forum too.
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Old 01-14-2018, 10:49 PM   #9
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I've seen tests done on "ComBloc" parts kits assembled by someone competent. Has anyone done a torture test on an issued gun?
I worked for KC, OEM of AK-47 for over 3,5 years.

One part of my job, probably my favorite one, was conducting "torture" (silly term) testing of Kalashnikov weapons, both in Russia and in some exotic countries. Sometimes it took days, sometimes weeks, sometimes several months. But it was always fun.

So, what do you want to know?
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:53 PM   #10
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US AKs are better we know.
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:30 AM   #11
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Maybe all the ones we see still on the battelefied were just the ones that lasted? Who knows how many broke and had to be pulled from service. It could be more that didn't make it than did.

Anyways... they work. That's the main deal. If it shoots and you can get it zeroed on target it is good to go. Same rules apply to an AR15 variant or any other rifle for that matter.

Functions?: check
Zero sights?: check
Done.

Nothing else matters.

Fit and finish doesn't mean crap in a combat weapon. It'll be beaten to shit pretty quick anyways. Probably dropped, run over, walked on, drug, put in the mud/sand/water, bumped into things, etc...
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Old 01-15-2018, 12:34 AM   #12
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Machak

Thank you for responding.

Was there one country of manufacture that stood out as being better than the others? Were guns manufactured within CIS as robust and long lasting as they are held to be?

I'd be curious to understand an overview of the testing an overview process, what types of failures, after how many rounds. I see some manufacturers covering a gun with mud after making every effort to sea it closed and consider this a test. I like Rob's test of sifting sand into the action while he is shooting the weapon.

I realize it is not practical to provide a detailed and exhaustive overview of 3.5+ years of work but I would like to hear your thoughts on how the guns you've tested would stack up with the guns that have been run through the torture tests that flood the web. I'd also like your assessment of the good and bad of these torture tests.

Спасибо вам Большое
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