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Old 04-21-2017, 10:05 AM   #1576
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Originally Posted by jp10 View Post
I do. Send me a $100.00 Postal money order and I will reveal all.
That's the best post in this thread.

Can I change my mind again. I just got a hell of a deal on 10 crates of 7n6 locally.

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Old 04-21-2017, 10:10 AM   #1577
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All this presumes that 5.45 is all we have. It's not all we have but we stock up with it, like any other round. In a SHTF scenario, there will be plenty of rifles and ammo for the survivors to pick up; the dead won't care which is better or why. .
Mostly in video games.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:26 AM   #1578
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Same here in IL. It's why I've opted for a rifled 20g. If I could use 410, I would. Same setup, rifled sabot barrel.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:38 AM   #1579
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Mostly in video games
And even then the bad guy with a AK 47 dies.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:40 AM   #1580
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Can I change my mind again. I just got a hell of a deal on 10 crates of 7n6 locally.
A honest answer as to why you shoot a 5.45.
I'd do the same if ammo was way cheaper.
It's how it was with 7.62x25 for a few years.I played that game.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:54 AM   #1581
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Everybody knows that whoever the first person to post on Pg. 50 has to pay for that Peguiniduck, right?
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:56 AM   #1582
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Everybody knows that whoever the first person to post on Pg. 50 has to pay for that Peguiniduck, right?
I ain't paying for that peguiduck!
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:56 AM   #1583
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Onward to pg 50!!

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Old 04-21-2017, 10:56 AM   #1584
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Mostly in video games.
Mostly....

Not all.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:57 AM   #1585
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:11 AM   #1586
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Mostly....

Not all.
99.99999% unless you complete to stage 29.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:12 AM   #1587
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I ain't paying for that peguiduck!
PenEagleduck., sounds more delicious.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:15 AM   #1588
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223 and 5.56 out number 5.45 at least 100 to one maybe 10,000 to one in avaiable ammo in this country and the same can be said for the firearms that shoot them.
You are correct--there is a LOT more 5.56 ammo in the US than 5.45.

But your argument falls on it's face. In a SHTF scenario, if you are planning on acquiring ammo from other people, you will be dead. In SHTF, Ammo = Security. No one will be giving up their ammo, unless they are either A) Dead, or B) trading it. People with hordes of 5.56 won't be trading ammo, and BFPU is unreliable at best (and most likely a trap). So any hope to acquire 5.56 ammo in SHTF is a fantasy.

So, in SHTF, the only ammo that I can rely upon is the ammo that I already stockpiled. Which brings us to:

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Your argument that you have made a logical choice based on cost of defense ammo that you will likely never ever shoot for that reason is flawed.
Look, I seriously pray that I won't ever need my ammo stockpiles. But, stockpiled ammo is like insurance. It's always better to have it and never need it...than to need it and not have it. So price does matter, because price is what determines the amount that I can stockpile.


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Further more ammo of equal quality is avaliable cheaper in 223.
Only if you steal it. Quality 5.56 ammo costs far more than 7n6, even still.


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Reloading is just one option. For many who actually shoot there rifles for the reasons they bought them for it offers the options of high quality loads for less.
I'm not opposed to reloading. I reload several pistol calibers, and I'm working on getting setup for .308 and 7mm Rem Mag. In normal life, reloading is a great option for saving money.

But in SHTF, you aren't going to be reloading.

Now, you also bring up "shoot there rifles for the reasons they bought them for it." So let's talk about that.
I have AR's, and I shoot them because it's fun. I have bolt guns, and pistols, and shotguns, and...well, all kinds, really. I love to shoot them. But I got into 5.45 because the ammo was cheap and reliable for SHTF purposes.

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The notion I don't have enough on hand ammo in caliburs that exceed 5.45 in enough quantity for dome crack induced pipe dream of a SHTF event is crap.
I really hope you are right. But even if there is only a 0.001% chance of SHTF where I would be entirely responsible for the safety of me & mine...I'm going to prepare for it.
I mean, you have homeowner's insurance. You have fire insurance. These are expenses you take on as a means to protect against a chance that something bad will happen. Ammo is the same.

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What would I do with 100 Fire arms only suitable for SHTF BS??
Why have 100 suitable for SHTF, when you can have 1 or 2, and a mountain of ammo for them?

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I like to shoot and hot things and in a SHTF situation were feeding my family may be a more likely situation 233 and every other option I have exceads 5.45 in every way for its intended purpose.
In real-world application, .223/5.56 perform identically. Yes, 5.56 has a very slight advantage, but those advantages require conditions and a shooter capable of using them. In SHTF, that won't happen.

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The fact is you bought into a calibur when it was cheap that is the most inaccurate and damaging g to your rifle likely avaliable. Now that prices have gone up and only leeser performing options are avaliable your turn to some prepper excuse for your decision.
1. The 5.45 cartridge is far more accurate than 99.9% of shooters. In a self-defense situation, the 5.45 cartridge is far more accurate than I expect I will be.
2. Strike while the iron is hot. Just because prices are going up, doesn't mean the ammo I have stashed away is somehow worthless. It only makes it more expensive to start. But even then, it is still more affordable than comparable 5.56.
3. Damaging to my rifle? I'm not sure what you mean there...my rifles are in very good condition.

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Enjoy your rifle and pile of inaccurate corrosive ammo for what it is. A college fund and life inuance would be a better choice IMO for the well being of a family.
Life insurance is an extremely poor investment, unless you are deeply in debt. The cost vs. payout is far worse than if you created your own investment. Seriously, look up Dave Ramsey. He can do the math and show that Life insurance is only a good investment while you are in debt.

College fund...for who? I've already been, paid my own way, and am no longer in debt. I also have no kids, and that isn't likely to change.

But this also presupposes that I have a choice of Life Insurance/College Fund versus ammo. In reality, since I budget my money very harshly, I could afford both.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:15 AM   #1589
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99.99999% unless you complete to stage 29.
Far too busy for any of that.

For me, it's more about the rifle than the round. So, if someone wants to donate a Beryl, SAM5, or Galil to the cause - I'll go through the hassle of getting it certified for work, but I'm far too heavily invested in my SLR104 to eat those costs for so little gain.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:17 AM   #1590
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Possably at 100 yards.
sniff much glue? i guess anything is possably

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So yes its possable a 410 could shoot more accurately than a 5.45.
once again, it could be possable for me not to pick my nose.

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I do how ever have a smooth bore 20 guage that's done right under 2" with rifled slugs.
And thats better than a lot of 5.45 rifles.
Hmm it does have a side mount I could see how it does.

Lot of slug guns will out shoot the average 5.45 AK .

this one takes a cake. Lots of 5,45 AKs? so i take it that you are not too keen on the 5,45 based on your endless drivel here. Yet you claim that you must have been around an "Average" 5,45 AK?

now you went as far as compare the accuracy of a rifled round to a freaking shotgun and claim its more accurate?


A properly built AK in 5,45 will shoot 1.5-2 MOA with open sights. GTFO with your "better" accuracy with a slug.
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:26 AM   #1591
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For many who actually shoot there rifles for the reasons they bought them....
I do use my AK for the reason I bought it. Many others do, too. Our reasons may differ from yours, but that means very little. A lot of people compete in Three Gun, does practicing for that make them delusional in your opinion? Given they'll never "need" such skills in real life?

Some people bought their rifles to have fun with. If running SHTF scenarios that may never happen provides that fun, are they not using their rifles for the reason it was purchased?
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Old 04-21-2017, 11:51 AM   #1592
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A. I don't have 100 rifles for SHTF.
I have a couple.
B. 223 ammo is cheaper in steel FMJ and plenty effective. It can be stacked now.
I have a few cases on side more reloadable and accurate stuff.

All this 7n6 is going to be vastly better is crap.
Generaly you shoot something it dies or quits fighting.

C. Most AK 74 DON'T shoot 1.5 MOA.
Not only have I had several and have kits for more including tantal with factory barrels I was one of the few that has actually reloaded 5.45.

I have 223 AKS that shoot much much better including some custom stuff that rivals m a NY factory bolt action and most ARs.
Lot more fun shooting a accurate gun that also will go bang in some imaginary SHTF situation.

I'm just saying be honest with your selves about what you really do with your fire arms .
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:00 PM   #1593
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:00 PM   #1594
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:01 PM   #1595
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:01 PM   #1596
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:05 PM   #1597
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Gone full retard again. Sweet
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:05 PM   #1598
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
A. I don't have 100 rifles for SHTF.
I have a couple.
Good. You and me both.

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B. 223 ammo is cheaper in steel FMJ and plenty effective. It can be stacked now.
Please point me to where I can purchase some.

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All this 7n6 is going to be vastly better is crap.
Generaly you shoot something it dies or quits fighting.
We agree. Which is why 7n6 is perfectly capable.

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C. Most AK 74 DON'T shoot 1.5 MOA.
Sure don't. 2-3 MOA is more likely. But every military in the world has agreed that for combat, 2-3 MOA is acceptable accuracy. And always remember, that AKs were designed for combat.

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I have 223 AKS that shoot much much better including some custom stuff that rivals m a NY factory bolt action and most ARs.
Lot more fun shooting a accurate gun that also will go bang in some imaginary SHTF situation.
There's nothing wrong with .223/5.56. My point of contention is the logistics of which cartridge to select. Cost is a yuuuge part of the logistics you need to consider, of which 7N6 still has an advantage.

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I'm just saying be honest with your selves about what you really do with your fire arms .
Read my post--I was.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:16 PM   #1599
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For many who actually shoot there rifles for the reasons they bought them....
I do use my AK for the reason I bought it. Many others do, too. Our reasons may differ from yours, but that means very little. A lot of people compete in Three Gun, does practicing for that make them delusional in your opinion? Given they'll never "need" such skills in real life?

Some people bought their rifles to have fun with. If running SHTF scenarios that may never happen provides that fun, are they not using their rifles for the reason it was purchased?
Really no argument there. In fact I agree with most of it.
Again as I have said enjoy your rifle go shoot it.
Just be honest when saying a round is better for something if it's not.

I shoot at stuff not worth eating or clay orange disks just for fun. I know how to bump fire and do a mag dump with accuracy .
I just find the whole the world is going to end and my Russian surpluss corrosive ammo is my salvation and AKS are only made for combat BS a really big stretch.

99.9999% OF rounds shot in the US are for recreation shooting,hunting ,or competion. Not at people.
Can some thing bad happen ? Sure. Will your ammo choice really matter? Not likely.

Is one round a better choice at today's prices ? IMO yes and that's 223. Factor in gun costs now and despite I'm a bigger AK fan then cheap asses should be shooting a AR

yea I know not as reliable and all that. But best bang for the dollar today.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:26 PM   #1600
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:27 PM   #1601
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:29 PM   #1602
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Who will it be. Who will it be?
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:29 PM   #1603
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:30 PM   #1604
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This man's hat is epic.

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Old 04-21-2017, 12:32 PM   #1605
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Or the Hague Conventions of 1899 & 1907

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_..._1899_and_1907
Do you think the Russian design circumvents it?

I was also talking more generally and especially about it's communist past. Especially under Stalin.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:34 PM   #1606
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This man's hat is epic.

Dude's beard is epic.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:35 PM   #1607
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To up the ante, the first person to post on pg 50 has to sell off their preferred cartridge and buy the other.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:36 PM   #1608
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:37 PM   #1609
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To up the ante, the first person to post on pg 50 has to sell off their preferred cartridge and buy the other.
I have both so I guess I'll take the fall for you guys.
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Old 04-21-2017, 01:05 PM   #1610
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This man's hat is epic.

Dude is one hell of a fighter. Killed shitload ukros. Still alive as well.

that picture dates back to 2014, when ukros first invaded Slavyansk.

here is more info on him
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plfDw1GC_hI


nice pix Rmiller!
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