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Old 02-17-2018, 09:19 AM   #36
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The Sport II is GTG from what most owners say.
Personally i believe the Ruger AR556 is a better option,
Ruger AR-556 5.56 NATO 16.1" 30 Rd 6-Pos Stock Threaded - $474.99 + $4.99 S/H
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:09 AM   #37
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The Armalite Def 15, The Eagle Armalite MFT, and the Windham mentioned are also good alternatives that can sometime be found in sales below $500.00. I now have three AR rifles - two PSA and one Armalite Eagle MFT rear stock model. The Armalite Eagle has a heavy barrel and I prefer that type of barrel. The Armalite Eagle that I have is the only carbine length gas system I own, in a rifle type AR. Just picked up a PSA 10.5 inch pistol upper and it has a carbine length gas system. And Yes, it is now mounted on a AR Pistol Lower.
That said, for the money, one can pick up a Ruger 556 basic rifle thru Sports Man's Guide for under $500 and make payments over 4 months on it. I don't have large amounts of money to throw around needlessly, and I imagine that neither do most average people, but even I can afford a budget pick up to acquire and stash away or wring out on the range.
The next thing is make a move to acquire one of these - I am, and if you don't I will.
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Old 02-17-2018, 10:27 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by nighttrainnc View Post
The Sport ii has the dust cover and forward assist, but the original (Gen 1 SPORT) had a barrel so good for the price (1/8" 5R melonnite coated) that they now only put it on the higher costing M&P AR lineup, being the Sport was cheap and just as good as the ones that costed double and was hurting sales I heard, and it also had a Mil Spec buffer Tube to my memory.

Someone please chime in on the barrel and original buffer tube thing if I am wrong, as my memory is rusty but remember reading in depth when the Gen 2 came out.

I've heard the Sport ii is just as good as far as being a low costing AR that works great and better than competitors. It just has a 1/9" barrel and commercial buffer tube, yet doesn't lack the dust cover and forward assist that the first Gen did... Beats buying a DPMS, if you read in depth, the SPORT line has exceptional reputation all around.

If you can ever find an un-used 1st Gen that says "1/8 5R" on the barrel, grab it!

Also, these are overgassed (the have a midlength sized gas port I've heard) to run a variety of ammo so an H or H2 buffer won't hurt anything and will slow the cycle rate and make it run smoother.
+1 on this. The 1/8 twist and 5R is GTG. To me no big deal on the forward assist and dust cover. Eats any type of ammo and is very accurate for my eyes.
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Old 02-17-2018, 05:43 PM   #39
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I got that one wrong. Windham is still a much nicer rifle at the same money still.

You get a nicer BCG and barrel.
Yeah, although some tests show the M&P being quite accurate. I think mrgunsngear was getting close to 1 moa with a stock configuration. That's pretty incredible.

Perhaps because they don't profile it to m4 dimensions and it's a bit of a "heavy" barrel (by accident).

Windham is definitely closer to milspec, probably higher quality.
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:17 PM   #40
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One confusing thing, when Mil Spec Tubes have 6 position slots , with flat rears on the tube (no slant), and milspec Magpul stocks, is that normal?

Comparison charts online shows "commercial" to have 6 slots, and Mil Spec to have 4 though, but in this case it's confusing being on 1 of my ARs I even bought the tube as a Mil-Spec tube from either Bravo or PSA , opposed to it coming on a SPORT Gen 1 and being a 1 off thing being my buddy owns one and I told him about this and he checked it over, same as mine, mi-spec but 6 positions. The threads that are screwed in have sharp peaks on then though, unlike the flat 4 or so behind those that are apparently that way all the way down the tube on Commercial as actual threads. Not the case on the SPORT Gen 1, atleast not that early one with 1/8 5R.

I know so much about it being I sold it to him thinking it was an inferior AR due to missing external components at the time, but now realize it was a good rifle and shooting it, it's VERY accurate. Seems that barrel is a good one, very thick barrel, not sure about the new 1/9 twist ones on the "SPORT ii".

In summary, are alot of newer Mil-Spec tubes 6 position or something?

Last edited by nighttrainnc; 02-17-2018 at 11:22 PM.
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Old 02-18-2018, 12:06 AM   #41
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Sport 2s are good to go. Only thing I’d change is the BCG and FCG. The fcg is different than your standard mil spec. Appears cheaper as well. Or if you want to go the Windham Weaponry route, they actually use mil spec steel barrels, and chrome lined, also 1/7 twist. I don’t think their Bolts are MP and/or HPT tested. And I believe they use commercial extensions as well. I have a Windham MPC from when Windham was barely out there..

My dad has a m&p sport 2 and he changes the bcg and fcg. He’s had no problems.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:51 AM   #42
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Sport 2s are good to go. Only thing I’d change is the BCG and FCG. The fcg is different than your standard mil spec. Appears cheaper as well. Or if you want to go the Windham Weaponry route, they actually use mil spec steel barrels, and chrome lined, also 1/7 twist. I don’t think their Bolts are MP and/or HPT tested. And I believe they use commercial extensions as well. I have a Windham MPC from when Windham was barely out there..

My dad has a m&p sport 2 and he changes the bcg and fcg. He’s had no problems.
I had a buddy buy 2 new windham’s a couple weeks back. They’re great rifles. A heads up though. I don’t know if this is just a freak accident or they had some bad FCG’s come through. Both rifles have imperfections in the manufacture of the trigger and the surface that catches it after the disconnector releases “broke”. It wore out so the trigger effectively became a “binary” trigger. But only if you held it back and let it reset. If you just pulled it really quick it would follow the carrier home.

Not a big problem. I just swapped them both out for him with 2 cmmg FCG’s I didn’t use from Lower parts kits.

Really weird that it happened with both rifles!
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Old 02-18-2018, 02:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Bigboss4198 View Post
Sport 2s are good to go. Only thing I’d change is the BCG and FCG. The fcg is different than your standard mil spec. Appears cheaper as well. Or if you want to go the Windham Weaponry route, they actually use mil spec steel barrels, and chrome lined, also 1/7 twist. I don’t think their Bolts are MP and/or HPT tested. And I believe they use commercial extensions as well. I have a Windham MPC from when Windham was barely out there..

My dad has a m&p sport 2 and he changes the bcg and fcg. He’s had no problems.
Any personal advice on Post #40 of mine a few posts up, just before it's lost in the pages?

Before I sold my Gen 1 SPORT, I actually kept the factory trigger group to use for another rifle, as I liked it. It was heavy, but had zero creep and was crisp with some grease or lube on the Hammer sear.

I had a DPMS lower parts kit and the trigger really sucks too much creep, polar opposite of the SPORT, but everyone has diff taste in this kind of thing

I've heard PSA triggers are great as far as factory triggers

On the Sport, was an FA/Heavy BCG put in?

I had an H buffer in it, but that was it. Seems like their was a reason I didn't put in a F/A BCG and Flat Woven extra power spring, I think it was due to asking advice on a forum.

Seems I was told an H, or H2 buffer MAX would work being it's over gassed, but "if it's not broke, don't go creating problems" kept getting thrown in my face. I still would love to buy it back oneday, I'd get a Sport ii but really want that 1/8 5R barrel again.
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:24 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Bigboss4198 View Post
Sport 2s are good to go. Only thing I’d change is the BCG and FCG. The fcg is different than your standard mil spec. Appears cheaper as well. Or if you want to go the Windham Weaponry route, they actually use mil spec steel barrels, and chrome lined, also 1/7 twist. I don’t think their Bolts are MP and/or HPT tested. And I believe they use commercial extensions as well. I have a Windham MPC from when Windham was barely out there..

My dad has a m&p sport 2 and he changes the bcg and fcg. He’s had no problems.
Windhams are 1 in 9 twist usually, the steel is also 4150 CMV on most of them so not really mil-spec but plenty tough enough to last in a semi-auto for 10's of thousands of rounds. The barrels are air gauged tighter than mil-spec for straightness and it pays off even when shooting cheap 55 gr.


Bolts are individually MPI/HPI on all windham rifles, same for the barrels. No batch testing.


It doesn't have the CHF barrel like a colt and the mil spec tube, but that's it, and why I would gladly buy one for the money over a colt any day.
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:33 AM   #45
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Windhams are 1 in 9 twist usually, the steel is also 4150 CMV on most of them so not really mil-spec but plenty tough enough to last in a semi-auto for 10's of thousands of rounds. The barrels are air gauged tighter than mil-spec for straightness and it pays off even when shooting cheap 55 gr.


Bolts are individually MPI/HPI on all windham rifles, same for the barrels. No batch testing.


It doesn't have the CHF barrel like a colt and the mil spec tube, but that's it, and why I would gladly buy one for the money over a colt any day.

On Windham’s website the uppers are now 1/7 twist with mil spec 1159E steel. But I could be wrong about the complete rifles the pump out to sell.

Correct they batch test their barrels and bolts. Something I never liked from any AR company. But I haven’t heard or seen problems because of it.

Windham’s are great rifles over all, I’d trust it
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:08 PM   #46
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Any personal advice on Post #40 of mine a few posts up, just before it's lost in the pages?

Before I sold my Gen 1 SPORT, I actually kept the factory trigger group to use for another rifle, as I liked it. It was heavy, but had zero creep and was crisp with some grease or lube on the Hammer sear.

I had a DPMS lower parts kit and the trigger really sucks too much creep, polar opposite of the SPORT, but everyone has diff taste in this kind of thing

I've heard PSA triggers are great as far as factory triggers

On the Sport, was an FA/Heavy BCG put in?

I had an H buffer in it, but that was it. Seems like their was a reason I didn't put in a F/A BCG and Flat Woven extra power spring, I think it was due to asking advice on a forum.

Seems I was told an H, or H2 buffer MAX would work being it's over gassed, but "if it's not broke, don't go creating problems" kept getting thrown in my face. I still would love to buy it back oneday, I'd get a Sport ii but really want that 1/8 5R barrel again.

From your post #40. From what I know a lot of manufacturers are doing 6 position mil spec. I think colt retains the 4 position. At least my 6920 and m4a1 socom do.


As for this post. From what I recall and from mrgunsngears YouTube video. The sport 2 has a different trigger than mil spec like you see on your usual AR. From what read, the sport 2 triggers MAY be inferior to standard mil spec. MIM parts or something like that.

PSA are good triggers. They’re standard mil spec for the most part. I like bcm triggers.

On my dads sport 2 came with an ar-15 bcg not the m16 one. Also did not come with any H buffers. Just the regular buffer.

For good measure I always change it to a quality m16 BCG. And H buffer or H2. On my dads, changed it H buffer and it’s either a bcm BCG he put in or a colt. Don’t think you’ll create problems by adding that. I wouldn’t worry so much about the extra power spring though. I think when making the sport 2 they took off the 5R barrel for cost effectiveness and since a lot of people were complaining about no forward assist and dust cover. Which I don’t know how that costs so much to do anyways. But sport 2 barrels will be good for what they are and what 99% will use them for.
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Old 02-18-2018, 01:34 PM   #47
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I have a Ruger AR556 and it's an excellent firearm. Everything I've read about the S&W M&P Sport II indicates it's also an excellent firearms. Both are great values backed with good warranties. A better firearm, and by far a better value than either, is the Ruger AR556 MPR. It has a free-floating hand guard, a much better trigger, a treated CHF barrel, and a rifle-length gas system, all for about $80 more than either the original Ruger AR556 or the M&P Sport.

Add a set of open sights for $80, and if the Ruger bolt/carrier bothers you, get a FA bolt/carrier for another $80 (good to have an extra anyway). Much, much more rifle for negligibly higher cost. I can't think of any other popular upgrades missing from the MPR.

I wish I would've had the option at the time to buy the MPR instead of the original. I may still get one.
This^^^^ I paid more for my Ruger AR556 then what you can get the MPR for today. I had to pay extra to add the upgrades.
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Old 02-18-2018, 09:57 PM   #48
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From your post #40. From what I know a lot of manufacturers are doing 6 position mil spec. I think colt retains the 4 position. At least my 6920 and m4a1 socom do.


As for this post. From what I recall and from mrgunsngears YouTube video. The sport 2 has a different trigger than mil spec like you see on your usual AR. From what read, the sport 2 triggers MAY be inferior to standard mil spec. MIM parts or something like that.

PSA are good triggers. They’re standard mil spec for the most part. I like bcm triggers.

On my dads sport 2 came with an ar-15 bcg not the m16 one. Also did not come with any H buffers. Just the regular buffer.

For good measure I always change it to a quality m16 BCG. And H buffer or H2. On my dads, changed it H buffer and it’s either a bcm BCG he put in or a colt. Don’t think you’ll create problems by adding that. I wouldn’t worry so much about the extra power spring though. I think when making the sport 2 they took off the 5R barrel for cost effectiveness and since a lot of people were complaining about no forward assist and dust cover. Which I don’t know how that costs so much to do anyways. But sport 2 barrels will be good for what they are and what 99% will use them for.
Thanks for the follow-up.

I wonder if the Gen 1 SPORT and SPORT 2 have the same FCG.

I just ask being it was a stiff trigger, yet no creep/travel to take up when pulling.

I kept that and put it in another AR to upgrade the DPMS one I had put in from a parts kit.

Now wondering if the trigger is better than the one on the SPORT 2, or the same to where I should upgrade.

When I explained that trigger to many, it's apparently the same one that the higher end M&P-15s had, so makes me wonder if the new SPORT downgraded the Barrel and FCG to add a mil spec upper receiver, or if ALL M&P15 triggers are the exact same.
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Old 02-18-2018, 10:01 PM   #49
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Anyone ever had a Gen 1 SPORT and a SPORT ii and know if the triggers are the same?
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Old 02-18-2018, 11:33 PM   #50
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Thanks for the follow-up.

I wonder if the Gen 1 SPORT and SPORT 2 have the same FCG.

I just ask being it was a stiff trigger, yet no creep/travel to take up when pulling.

I kept that and put it in another AR to upgrade the DPMS one I had put in from a parts kit.

Now wondering if the trigger is better than the one on the SPORT 2, or the same to where I should upgrade.

When I explained that trigger to many, it's apparently the same one that the higher end M&P-15s had, so makes me wonder if the new SPORT downgraded the Barrel and FCG to add a mil spec upper receiver, or if ALL M&P15 triggers are the exact same.



No clue if they’re the same. I’ve only handled a sport 2. Reason why is switched the fcg is because I feel like the factory sport 2 trigger MAY also fail faster than your standard mil spec trigger from a reputable company. IMO.

I also believe they downgraded the sport 2 on some things. But the rifle is fine
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Old Yesterday, 03:57 AM   #51
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My thoughts?
I never will support S&W for any reason.
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