Saiga and Vepr AKM Conversions?

[AK/47]

Saiga and Vepr AKM Conversions to the AKM rifle, which rifle is closest to an actual AKM rifle including the rifles nomenclature, the ability to exchange parts and its function?

And which builders are considered competent and professional concerning building either Saiga and Vepr AKM?

Thanx

[SinnerForgiven]

Saigas in 7.62x39 are closer to AK-103 type rifles than AKM type rifles. They have 90 degree gas blocks (compared to the AKM's 45 degree), a different bolt profile, a slightly different gas piston, and dust cover.

The VEPRs in 7.62x39 are closer to an RPK type rifle than an AKM. They share the RPK's heavier barrel, reciever, and bulged front trunnion.


To be honest with you, at the moment, I can't think of any builders who model VEPRs and Saigas after the AKM. However, if I remember any, I'll try to post it here and let you know

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by SinnerForgiven

Saigas in 7.62x39 are closer to AK-103 type rifles than AKM type rifles. They have 90 degree gas blocks (compared to the AKM's 45 degree), a different bolt profile, a slightly different gas piston, and dust cover.

The VEPRs in 7.62x39 are closer to an RPK type rifle than an AKM. They share the RPK's heavier barrel, reciever, and bulged front trunnion.

To be honest with you, at the moment, I can't think of any builders who model VEPRs and Saigas after the AKM. However, if I remember any, I'll try to post it here and let you know

The only one that I have found so far that does the Vepr to AKM is Mike at Black Forge according to Jerry from Black Horse (who does the Vepr to Dragunov/PSL) and said that Black Forge was excellent, so that's enough for me seeing his credentials and amazing work as well.

If anyone is interested here is their website and email if that's okay to post.....
Website:
www.blackforgeweapons.com
Email:
info@blackforgeweapons.com

Great signature btw, noticing your username and avatar I was wondering if you were a Christian however that answered that question, as am I.

[2004exrider]

Atlantic Firearms offers a lot of AK variants, including converted Saigas and Veprs.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storecategory90.aspx

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by 2004exrider

Atlantic Firearms offers a lot of AK variants, including converted Saigas and Veprs.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storecategory90.aspx

That is true thanks and Atlantic Firearms are good people to deal with as well.

[SinnerForgiven]

Originally Posted by AK/47

The only one that I have found so far that does the Vepr to AKM is Mike at Black Forge according to Jerry from Black Horse (who does the Vepr to Dragunov/PSL) and said that Black Forge was excellent, so that's enough for me seeing his credentials and amazing work as well.

If anyone is interested here is their website and email if that's okay to post.....
Website:
www.blackforgeweapons.com
Email:
info@blackforgeweapons.com

Great signature btw, noticing your username and avatar I was wondering if you were a Christian however that answered that question, as am I.

Yeah, Black Forge seems to do a very well done conversion, and if you got a recommendation to them from Black Horse, then they must indeed be excellent.

Atlantic Firearms carries a few Saiga and VEPR conversions geared toward the AKM pattern, such as the (Saiga) "Russian AK-47 Cold War Style" and the "VEPR AK47 7.62x39mm Red Wood Rifle." However, I am unaware of who actually does the conversion on those models.


Also, it's great to meet a fellow Christian on the AK Files .

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by SinnerForgiven

Yeah, Black Forge seems to do a very well done conversion, and if you got a recommendation to them from Black Horse, then they must indeed be excellent.

Atlantic Firearms carries a few Saiga and VEPR conversions geared toward the AKM pattern, such as the (Saiga) "Russian AK-47 Cold War Style" and the "VEPR AK47 7.62x39mm Red Wood Rifle." However, I am unaware of who actually does the conversion on those models.


Also, it's great to meet a fellow Christian on the AK Files .

Most definitely, Black Forge and Black Horse seem to be the new revolution in AKM and Dragunov/PSL builders period and after seeing what they manufacture and the quality as well as their credentials there is no question.....

Concerning Atlantic Firearms, although they seem to be good people to deal with and sell quality rifles, I don't like that they don't reveal who is doing the Saiga and Vepr AKM conversion builds either?
However both Black Forge and Black Horse are up front and answer any questions posed to them which is the way I prefer to do business.

Yes it is good to see other Christians here.

Best

[blackforge]

Well it's nice to hear some recognition lol. So If you see any conversion where the rifle is not clearly marked on the receiver there's a small problem, it's not exactly legal. Not so much for the shooter but whomever making it is in fact by ATF definition the "manufacturer" and it has to be clearly marked at depth on the reciever. But not all "manufacturers" are in fact legal to do so and not doing things right or legal. Plus if your rifle breaks who's gonna be warrantying it? We offer lifetime warranty on ALL guns we make, and since I laser engrave our guns to depth we know our guns and will always stand by them. That's how we prefer to do business also.

[Atlantic Firearms]

If a customer has a issue with a rifle we have sold they are always welcome to contact our office . We will be glad to assist in making sure that any warranty issues are dealt with or they have the correct contact info on who to call. Atlantic Firearms has solid reputation in the industry on standing behind the products we offer.

[Atlantic Firearms]

On a side note the Blackforge weapons look very nice we plan on contacting them this week to see what they may be able to offer our customer line up !!

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by blackforge

Well it's nice to hear some recognition lol. So If you see any conversion where the rifle is not clearly marked on the receiver there's a small problem, it's not exactly legal. Not so much for the shooter but whomever making it is in fact by ATF definition the "manufacturer" and it has to be clearly marked at depth on the reciever. But not all "manufacturers" are in fact legal to do so and not doing things right or legal. Plus if your rifle breaks who's gonna be warrantying it? We offer lifetime warranty on ALL guns we make, and since I laser engrave our guns to depth we know our guns and will always stand by them. That's how we prefer to do business also.

Hi, good to see Black Forge here along with Black Horse.....
Outstanding, if more companies were like this then there wouldn't be so many unhappy customers and junk jam-o-matics.
As you know there are too many companies that only cater to their pocketbook and not the customer and unfortunately could care less about them, although I am not sure how they remain in business.
It is good to to have some that will actually stand by their product and to actually provide good customer service; however from all the information I don't think that will be necessary from the quality parts and the knowledgeable and professional craftsmanship involved.

Best

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by Atlantic Firearms

If a customer has a issue with a rifle we have sold they are always welcome to contact our office . We will be glad to assist in making sure that any warranty issues are dealt with or they have the correct contact info on who to call. Atlantic Firearms has solid reputation in the industry on standing behind the products we offer.

Atlantic Firearms is also one of the good upstanding companies too and I have only heard good things about them as well, excellent quality products and customer service and they have been in business for several years to prove it.

[blackforge]

Originally Posted by Atlantic Firearms

If a customer has a issue with a rifle we have sold they are always welcome to contact our office . We will be glad to assist in making sure that any warranty issues are dealt with or they have the correct contact info on who to call. Atlantic Firearms has solid reputation in the industry on standing behind the products we offer.

Thats a good looking rifle! I love me a vepr in Russian red, on some levels I like it better than all the bells and whistles in the world!!! The quintessential AK is a beautiful thing.
Mike

[blackforge]

Originally Posted by Atlantic Firearms

On a side note the Blackforge weapons look very nice we plan on contacting them this week to see what they may be able to offer our customer line up !!

Call anytime ask for Mike I'm the owner.
407-318-4660 cell
407-730-3176 office

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by blackforge

Thats a good looking rifle! I love me a vepr in Russian red, on some levels I like it better than all the bells and whistles in the world!!! The quintessential AK is a beautiful thing.
Mike

What is the ring behind the gas block for, seems like they are on all of the Vepr rifles however there doesn't seem to be any apparent reason for them?

[blackforge]

Originally Posted by AK/47

What is the ring behind the gas block for, seems like they are on all of the Vepr rifles however there doesn't seem to be any apparent reason for them?

Its where the threading for the hand guard retaining screw is, it's just a band pressed on that's threaded.

[Gorbachov]

Originally Posted by AK/47

Most definitely, Black Forge and Black Horse seem to be the new revolution in AKM and Dragunov/PSL builders period and after seeing what they manufacture and the quality as well as their credentials there is no question.....

Concerning Atlantic Firearms, although they seem to be good people to deal with and sell quality rifles, I don't like that they don't reveal who is doing the Saiga and Vepr AKM conversion builds either?
However both Black Forge and Black Horse are up front and answer any questions posed to them which is the way I prefer to do business.

Yes it is good to see other Christians here.

Best

We too are Born Again Christians!! Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord". It's all about God's Grace and Forgiveness when Jesus paid the penalty of eternal death on Himself. If He hadn't, and left it up to my righteousness I wouldn't be here today, as I'm the biggest of all sinners!

[Gorbachov]

Originally Posted by AK/47

What is the ring behind the gas block for, seems like they are on all of the Vepr rifles however there doesn't seem to be any apparent reason for them?

We use this same threaded hole to secure the front of our lower forearm to the bottom of the barrel. The back of the forearm has a tab that slides into the bottom front of the receiver under the trunnion. We supply the screw as the one used with the wood forearm is too long. It's not anything you'll find at your local True Value and I seriously doubt Molot is going to provide them. We have to manufacture it ourselves on a 5 axis Swiss screw machine, due to the very odd fine metric threads.

[Gorbachov]

Not being a manufacturer but a marketer of other manufacturers product, the problem would not be with Atlantic, as their recourse is only as good as the warranty of the manufacture, unless Atlantic has another company like Black Forge or us fixing other manufacturers problems, which is highly unlikely due to added costs that should be the OEMs.

Like Black Forge we offer a lifetime warranty with proof of purchase. We have a no questions asked policy of return with full refund or exchange at the customer's prerogative. Since 2006 we have never had a customer complaint, return or refund out of the tens of thousands of stocks and weapons we've produced.

In fact...we take it a step further; our policy is if we come out with new generation product based on the style you originally bought, we'll exchange it for free with the latest generation if you pay the freight. We are just now starting to see some of our very early 2006 customers trading in their old fixed stocks for the latest expendable versions.

The basic SVD composite stock has never changed and is the same today as it was when we started. What has changed are the developments and improvements we've made to our earlier adaptations of the stock. This may sound like a loosing proposition, but it gives us a continuous supply of inventory we can refurbish and resell with little investment.

[LEUVUK]

Originally Posted by Gorbachov

Not being a manufacturer but a marketer of other manufacturers product, the problem would not be with Atlantic, as their recourse is only as good as the warranty of the manufacture, unless Atlantic has another company like Black Forge or us fixing other manufacturers problems, which is highly unlikely due to added costs that should be the OEMs.

Like Black Forge we offer a lifetime warranty with proof of purchase. We have a no questions asked policy of return with full refund or exchange at the customer's prerogative. Since 2006 we have never had a customer complaint, return or refund out of the tens of thousands of stocks and weapons we've produced.

In fact...we take it a step further; our policy is if we come out with new generation product based on the style you originally bought, we'll exchange it for free with the latest generation if you pay the freight. We are just now starting to see some of our very early 2006 customers trading in their old fixed stocks for the latest expendable versions.

The basic SVD composite stock has never changed and is the same today as it was when we started. What has changed are the developments and improvements we've made to our earlier adaptations of the stock. This may sound like a loosing proposition, but it gives us a continuous supply of inventory we can refurbish and resell with little investment.

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by blackforge

Its where the threading for the hand guard retaining screw is, it's just a band pressed on that's threaded.

Okay thanks, good to know.

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by Gorbachov

We too are Born Again Christians!! Romans 6:23 says "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord". It's all about God's Grace and Forgiveness when Jesus paid the penalty of eternal death on Himself. If He hadn't, and left it up to my righteousness I wouldn't be here today, as I'm the biggest of all sinners!

Always good to know that there are other Christians on the forums.

[AK/47]

Originally Posted by Gorbachov

We use this same threaded hole to secure the front of our lower forearm to the bottom of the barrel. The back of the forearm has a tab that slides into the bottom front of the receiver under the trunnion. We supply the screw as the one used with the wood forearm is too long. It's not anything you'll find at your local True Value and I seriously doubt Molot is going to provide them. We have to manufacture it ourselves on a 5 axis Swiss screw machine, due to the very odd fine metric threads.

Outstanding and is exactly what I want for Vepr Dragunov DMR's in 7.62x54r along with the new made BHA steel SVD 'cloned' magazines as well.

[RRC Firearms]

We will very soon be offering a number of VEPR rifles in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54r that have been converted by Black Forge through our store. The guns are currently being converted and we expect to have them very soon.

If you have a special setup or design you are looking for on a converted VEPR rifle let us know what you want and we would be happy to get you a quote.

Thanks,

Rich

[vonCraz]

Originally Posted by RRC Firearms

We will very soon be offering a number of VEPR rifles in 7.62x39, 5.45x39, and 7.62x54r that have been converted by Black Forge through our store. The guns are currently being converted and we expect to have them very soon.

If you have a special setup or design you are looking for on a converted VEPR rifle let us know what you want and we would be happy to get you a quote.

Thanks,

Rich

Hate to see " NO California sales" sign... All that's need is a bullet button... Heh... (((

[RRC Firearms]

Originally Posted by vonCraz

Hate to see " NO California sales" sign... All that's need is a bullet button... Heh... (((

Which "NO Calfornia Sales" sign? We have a bunch of guns available to California, on the new ones that we are converting we should have no problem selling them in California. We install bullet buttons on pretty much everything we can.

Thanks,

Rich

[vonCraz]

Excuse me. You are right. I looked on first two pieces from Arsenal inventory... My bad.
http://www.rrcfirearms.com/pd-arsenal-sgl21-62.cfm
http://www.rrcfirearms.com/pd-arsenal-sgl-21-61.cfm

[RRC Firearms]

Originally Posted by vonCraz

Excuse me. You are right. I looked on first two pieces from Arsenal inventory... My bad.
http://www.rrcfirearms.com/pd-arsenal-sgl21-62.cfm
http://www.rrcfirearms.com/pd-arsenal-sgl-21-61.cfm

Yeah forgot about those . On the Arsenal rifles its a little touchy because they say a bullet button will void the warranty but we can install them if someone wants.