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Old 10-09-2017, 10:03 PM   #1
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Default Sighting M92 for 100-yard zero on a 25 yard range?

We have a new local indoor range that allows you to shoot whatever weapons you like, but the longest (rifle) Lane is only 75.

Does anyone have any idea where Id need to sight in a Zastava M92 SBR at 75 for it to hit dead center at 300?
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Old 10-09-2017, 10:32 PM   #2
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I pulled 678 meters per second for a 123gr FMJ from some notes I had on a YouTuber or maybe Krebs who did chrono testing w a M92. Plug that into the ballistic calculator you use or use the one at ballistic data.org I think. Set it for a 100yd zero and or play around w the numbers it yields w that velocity and load data. Good luck.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:29 AM   #3
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The truth is that you can do math and plug numbers all day to maybe get kinda close, but each firearm will shoot a particular load how it's going to shoot it at the end of the day. Especially with 7.62x39. By the time you tracked down the BC for the projectile, actually chronographed it's true velocity average, and figured everything out; it'd be easier to just do some rough estimates and find a range somewhere else to bring 100 rds of whatever ammo, and be confident that your dope is on.
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Old 10-11-2017, 02:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakwa View Post
The truth is that you can do math and plug numbers all day to maybe get kinda close, but each firearm will shoot a particular load how it's going to shoot it at the end of the day. Especially with 7.62x39. By the time you tracked down the BC for the projectile, actually chronographed it's true velocity average, and figured everything out; it'd be easier to just do some rough estimates and find a range somewhere else to bring 100 rds of whatever ammo, and be confident that your dope is on.
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Old 10-11-2017, 04:52 PM   #5
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I was gonna sight my M92 in at 100 yards but only really have easy access to 25 yard indoor ranges.......so the conclusion I came to was: Sight in for POA / POI at 25 yards and if the theat is further out, charge them screaming like im in the movie Bravehart until I get about 25 yards away then shoot
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sublimeon24s View Post
I was gonna sight my M92 in at 100 yards but only really have easy access to 25 yard indoor ranges.......so the conclusion I came to was: Sight in for POA / POI at 25 yards and if the theat is further out, charge them screaming like im in the movie Bravehart until I get about 25 yards away then shoot
Solid advice.
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Old 10-11-2017, 08:13 PM   #7
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I calculate that point of impact should be 5.44 inches high. 123 grain with muzzle velocity at 2227 fps
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:59 PM   #8
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If you have access to a place with a 25 and 50 yard area, zero at 25 first then zero it at 50. I zero all of my rifles at 50 yards and out to 200 it's dead on. My m92 hits steel at 200 yards on 10" plates all day and I was surprised it did as well. Your 100 yard zero will be dead on as well. I actually broke my steel gong this past weekend with so many hits on my plate. Crazy. But I was more than satisfied hitting nearly 100% at 100 with the Krink.
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Old 10-16-2017, 08:04 PM   #9
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Use a ballistic calculator.
Enter desired zero (300yds in this case)
Know BC, bullet weight, velocity.
Calculate. Check the graph.
There will be an initial zero at around 21-24yards. Which matches 100yd zero, basically the arch/path going up, then back down to zero again (On my mini draco it's 19 yards for 100yds zero)
Set your target at that distance. Zero it. Done.
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Old 10-17-2017, 01:08 PM   #10
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14m or 15yd zero for 7.62x39
The factory rear sight on the PAP M92 is for 200m and 400m
21m or 23yd zero for 5.45 and 5.56 for 300m
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In all seriousness I cant tell whether some of you are simply blind, ignorant or stupid..
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Old 10-17-2017, 07:14 PM   #11
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OP if i can figure out how to launch 300gr subsonic bullet at a target 450m away within +- .5 mils of poa with JUST using ballistic calculator found online and JUST knowing bc of the bullet, im sure you can figure out what to do about your dilemma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakwa View Post
The truth is that you can do math and plug numbers all day to maybe get kinda close. it'd be easier to just do some rough estimates and find a range somewhere else to bring 100 rds of whatever ammo, and be confident that your dope is on.
The only truth there is with AK and ammo it uses that people seems to never get into their head is that "GET KINDA CLOSE" is as good as it gets. And in order to achieve that "GET KINDA CLOSE" it will take about a mag or two.
Since he is using M92, for him "GET KINDA CLOSE" is actually "KINDA GET KINDA CLOSE"
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Old 10-19-2017, 04:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugroza View Post
The only truth there is with AK and ammo it uses that people seems to never get into their head is that "GET KINDA CLOSE" is as good as it gets. And in order to achieve that "GET KINDA CLOSE" it will take about a mag or two.
Since he is using M92, for him "GET KINDA CLOSE" is actually "KINDA GET KINDA CLOSE"
LOL
True.

I know the BC sucks, but I would love to see some consistent match 7.62x39 out there for under a buck a bullet. There are more than a few people out there that have DMR set up AK's that would put it to good use, I'm sure.
But "GET KINDA CLOSE" is OK because we can still find ammo for around a quarter a round.
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Old 10-21-2017, 05:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakwa View Post
I know the BC sucks, but I would love to see some consistent match 7.62x39 out there for under a buck a bullet.
I wouldn't, in my opinion 7.62x39 being what it is - is actually what is keeping its price down.
Sure more options will bring more stable prices, but i bet you those stable prices will be inflated. Id much rather live with fluctuated prices with ability to grab it for .18c/round.

Why 7.62x39 DMR is puzzling me. Robski once got smart with me and tried to list reasons why .308 outperforms x39. I responded with a statement that any modern round outperforms x39 in almost every way, so there is no need to waste time on listing reasons. And that is a fact no one can argue with.
Being effective puncher withing 300m that cost ~.20c/round is what still keeping it alive. It is a decent jack of all trades. Change anything about that equation, and i will move away to more specialized and effective round without thinking twice.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:07 PM   #14
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I had to adjust my front sight post quite a bit to even get my factory new M92 on paper at 25 yards.
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Old 10-21-2017, 09:30 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweersa View Post
I had to adjust my front sight post quite a bit to even get my factory new M92 on paper at 25 yards.
Sure it was M92 and not STG44 with curved barrel ?
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Old 10-25-2017, 02:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunker Hill View Post
We have a new local indoor range that allows you to shoot whatever weapons you like, but the longest (rifle) Lane is only 75’.

Does anyone have any idea where I’d need to sight in a Zastava M92 SBR at 75’ for it to hit dead center at 300’?

You mean 300 feet, not 300 yards (which would be a pretty tall order), right?

You need to establish what your muzzle velocity is.

MAC did a comparison between the Draco (11.5" bbl.) MV @ 2,075 fps and a Mini Draco (7" bbl.) MV @ 1,950 fps. So at 10.5" for the PAP bbl., say the MV = say @ 2,000 fps in round figures.



Plug those numbers into the Federal ammunition ballistics calculator:

https://www.federalpremium.com/Ballistics_Calculator/

With Federal Fusion ammo, zeroing at 25 yards, the trajectory crosses again at between 100 and 125 yards, then the bullet drops like a rock past 150 yards.

So, you should be good to go if you sight in at 25 yards. The highest arc of the trajectory is like 1.2" at 75 yards, so you should be able to hit your target with a pretty flat trajectory from 0 to 125 yards.

Last edited by Meataxe556; 10-25-2017 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 10-26-2017, 09:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugroza View Post
I wouldn't, in my opinion 7.62x39 being what it is - is actually what is keeping its price down.
Sure more options will bring more stable prices, but i bet you those stable prices will be inflated. Id much rather live with fluctuated prices with ability to grab it for .18c/round.

Why 7.62x39 DMR is puzzling me. Robski once got smart with me and tried to list reasons why .308 outperforms x39. I responded with a statement that any modern round outperforms x39 in almost every way, so there is no need to waste time on listing reasons. And that is a fact no one can argue with.
Being effective puncher withing 300m that cost ~.20c/round is what still keeping it alive. It is a decent jack of all trades. Change anything about that equation, and i will move away to more specialized and effective round without thinking twice.

You are probably correct. If 7.62x39 got over .35c/rd, I'd probably stick with 5.56 for general shooting and 308 as my heavy precise caliber. 7.62x39 is acting as a cheap in between for me currently.
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Old 10-30-2017, 12:02 PM   #18
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Note these velocities.

Bulgarian 7.62x39 Krinkov 8.5 inch barrel - 600 m/s with milled receiver 16 inch barrel 710 /s ammo..

Bulgarian 7.62x39 12.5 inch barrel - 650 m/s with milled receiver 16 inch barrel 710 m/s ammo.

Russian 7.62x39 AK-104 12.3 inch barrel - 670 m/s with AKM 16 inch barrel 715 m/s ammo.

Serbian 7.62x39 M92 10 inch barrel - 678 m/s with M70 16 inch barrel 720 m/s M67 ammo.

The Russian velocities are usually the closest to current ammo, but some ammo is milder.

Check some of the You Tube videos for actual M92 velocities.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:13 PM   #19
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I really only shoot my M92s/85s/Draco for the flames and concussion...hitting something with it is just icing on the cake
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Old 10-31-2017, 11:56 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allesennogwat View Post
Note these velocities.

Bulgarian 7.62x39 Krinkov 8.5 inch barrel - 600 m/s with milled receiver 16 inch barrel 710 /s ammo..

Bulgarian 7.62x39 12.5 inch barrel - 650 m/s with milled receiver 16 inch barrel 710 m/s ammo.

Russian 7.62x39 AK-104 12.3 inch barrel - 670 m/s with AKM 16 inch barrel 715 m/s ammo.

Serbian 7.62x39 M92 10 inch barrel - 678 m/s with M70 16 inch barrel 720 m/s M67 ammo.

The Russian velocities are usually the closest to current ammo, but some ammo is milder.

Check some of the You Tube videos for actual M92 velocities.

Is M67 loaded hotter than other 7.62x39 rounds? How else to explain why it has more velocity out of a 10" M92 barrel than rounds fired out of 12"+ Russian and Bulgarian barrels.

I guess to be sure, one needs to chronograph whatever your favorite round is and calculate accordingly.
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Old 11-01-2017, 01:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meataxe556 View Post
Is M67 loaded hotter than other 7.62x39 rounds? How else to explain why it has more velocity out of a 10" M92 barrel than rounds fired out of 12"+ Russian and Bulgarian barrels.

I guess to be sure, one needs to chronograph whatever your favorite round is and calculate accordingly.
There have been a few versions of M67 ammo.

The original Yugoslavian 7.62x39 ammo was the M59, which is based on the original SKS ammo.

Then the early M67 ammo was used only in AK's and had a higher chamber with different powder.

Later a version of M67 came out meant for both the SKS and AK loaded with a slower version of the original M67 powder.

Then there was the non-corrosive primer version of M67 ammo that at some point was loaded with an imported ball powder.

Standard chamber pressure was 45,000 CUP and M67 was loaded to 48,000 CUP.

It has a shorter lead core bullet that allows for more powder.


In a standard length barrel it is not much faster and wouldn't want to be.

It's possible it is faster from a shorter barrel, but I suspect there has been a mistake somewhere with the M92 velocity.

The Russian AK-104 with a 2 inch longer barrel is rated at 670 m/s.

The Bulgarian velocities are often underrated.

I think the AK-104 velocity is correct and the M92 has to be slower.


M67 showing standard velocity with a 16 inch AK.




With an M92, but in cold weather, velocity is about 628 m/s, which is what I would expect.



I was thinking the M92 velocity should be 625 - 633 m/s.

The Bulgarian Krinkov is 1.5" - 2 inches shorter and is rated at 600 m/s and the Bulgarian rated velocities are usually a bit low.
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Old 11-01-2017, 07:36 PM   #22
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Some more velocity testing using the M92.











































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Old 11-01-2017, 11:11 PM   #23
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^ Interesting - thanks! Would like to see how SST and the new Tula 8M3 fares out of short barrels.
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