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Old 04-02-2014, 12:17 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
Would you read that and say that the sniper being interviewed was talking about the Russian SVD or the Romanian "Dragunov"?
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Old 04-02-2014, 01:19 AM   #37
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Forgot I should also add, I'm not a big fan of using all the extra words to describe what an item is like or similar too. Just say what the damn thing is and that is it. It's either a Dragunov or PSL, a vz2008/vz58 or AK/AKM, etc.

Last edited by Stang; 04-02-2014 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 04-02-2014, 09:26 AM   #38
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Someone ban this Apache before he starts scamming people via fraud in OUR marketplace.

Dude is clearly a scam artist or just completely uneducated about firearms. I think its both.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:24 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
It's a shame to see a good website like this be lowered by the riff raff. I know there are a lot of excellent members here. I have a lot of respect for guys like Berg. I've spoken with Frenchie before, and while we don't agree on everything he definitely has a good heart and a sincere enthusiasm for all things. Hopefully they are the representatives of the gun community that people meet before the fine gentlemen posting so far here.

There have been a lot of good points in this thread. Unfortunately, they were all made by me. My favorite so far is Lenin's. In trying to skim over my observation that Black Horse's photoshopped images went sharply down in quality after he left, all he can say is that they had photoshopped images before and after, so it's not important that the quality went down when he left, and everyone should look away. Yeah, ok. And of course you had nothing to say about the fact that you, and you only, posted auctions on Gunbroker for guns that had not been built yet. Jerry didn't hold a gun to your head (after all, he was on the other side of the country). You are the one who posted auctions for those rifles without mentioning that they had not been built yet. You were probably anticipating that they would be ready by the time people won and paid, but all the same you put those descriptions up with your account while daily updates here on AK Files showed you knew they weren't yet ready for sale. Again, of all the people in the world to say something about deceit on Gunbroker, the man who posted auctions for non-existent guns and likely photoshopped advertising images is the one doing it.

Really nothing substantial anywhere else. A lot of profanity; some people who don't understand economics posting that they don't like high prices. The solution to that in the adult world is that if you don't like the prices somebody has on their property that they are selling, you don't pay them. Maybe if you complain for another 8 years you'll make some progress?

I've posted why we describe the rifles the way we do, and why I believe everything I say. If you disagree, and have your own opinions, that is perfectly fine. When you try to force your opinions on others, and call anyone with an opinion other than yours a liar, you show what a minutely narrow mind you have. False advertising? I'm not a lawyer, but I took quite a few law classes while getting my Master's degree. I assure you, I would have a far stronger case for libel against certain members of this forum than anyone has for a false advertising suit. Of course you're welcome to try. Maybe you'll get rich.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stang View Post
Forgot I should also add, I'm not a big fan of using all the extra words to describe what an item is like or similar too. Just say what the damn thing is and that is it. It's either a Dragunov or PSL, a vz2008/vz58 or AK/AKM, etc.
To late, he already see's you and chuckhawk as an "ally" and will soon make some BS post congratulating you and how there are still good people on this forum with reason.

Wait and see, and the only reason he doesnt do it is because I already posted his next play.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:45 AM   #40
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To late, he already see's you and chuckhawk as an "ally" and will soon make some BS post congratulating you and how there are still good people on this forum with reason.

Wait and see, and the only reason he doesnt do it is because I already posted his next play.
Never said I was an ally with anyone nor anywhere in my post does it say that so show some respect. The exact point I was making, there are plenty of other dickheads on this forum...
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:11 PM   #41
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Never said I was an ally with anyone nor anywhere in my post does it say that so show some respect. The exact point I was making, there are plenty of other dickheads on this forum...
I did not say you were his ally. But you were in effect tossing him a life ring, and you better believe he will snag at any chance to stay above water in this thread.

He's going to make you out to be the "rare reasonable members" on the forum. unlike us Riff Raff..
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Old 04-02-2014, 02:23 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by ncreptile View Post
unlike us Riff Raff..
When it comes to Apache, that's a badge I'll wear with pride.
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:07 AM   #43
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No need for me to flame him for asking what he thinks is a fair price. Take the high ground and educate.
That's not why he's being flamed... People think he's an asshat because he intentionally misrepresents PSL's as being "Dragunov" action rifles (when they are in fact Kalasnikov actions), to trick people into paying more for them then they are worth. He knows the difference - so education is not an option here.

I like how he claims that just because there's been "8-years of misinformation" that he is somehow exempt from fact simply because a myth has been perpetuated for a specified period of time! Oh and the classic effort to redirect the topic onto Lenin's prior employment with BHA was rich indeed!

**********

On the other hand, when "apache go to happy hunting ground", apache will face judgement (same as all of us). Take joy in the fact that while he's selling his soul and tarnishing his name for a few extra dollars, we PSL owners will (innocently) see the value of our rifles increase while he blackens his soul..
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:07 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Apache View Post
I assure you, I would have a far stronger case for libel against certain members of this forum than anyone has for a false advertising suit.
Then do something about it or STFU, asspache. I am 100% accurate with my description stating you are the equivalent of praline and dick flavored ice cream.

BTW, in your economics courses, did they tell you to do a 300% mark up or did you skip class that day? That was a rhetorical question so you can still STFU.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:06 AM   #45
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Oh good, another resident expert setting things straight with an expert analysis.

From your libelous post, key words in bold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick View Post
That's not why he's being flamed... People think he's an asshat because he intentionally misrepresents PSL's as being "Dragunov" action rifles (when they are in fact Kalasnikov actions), to trick people into paying more for them then they are worth. He knows the difference - so education is not an option here.
From my PSL description posted in nearly every listing for 8 years:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache
First, it uses the same type of action that an AK-47 uses
Its a good thing there are so many "experts" available here. I wonder what this discussion would be like on a lesser board with just normal people, not blessed with all the expertise? Would they even be able to form sentences or would it just be strings of unrelated words, symbols and emoticons?
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:03 AM   #46
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The mention of the AK action is actually dead center between 2 places where your talking about actual Dragunovs. And trying to "sue" people for libel is pretty much a fools errand when they are pointing out factual cases of misrepresentation of your goods.
Here's your exact post, The actual times you mention it's Romanian in green and since you never once say a PSL a dragunov we'll leave those black.


This is a used, factory built Romanian Dragunov sniper rifle, complete with original military scope(not the imported version)They imported a shitload of TIPS-2 scopes and all of the accessories pictured. These rifles, also known as a Romak-3, SSG-97, and PSL, are extremely accurate and reliable. The Dragunov design has been in use since the mid 60's, and is still the official design of Russia and other Com-bloc countries. This is the Romanian version, which improved on the Russian design as far as reliability goes. This is a great weapon for several reasons. First, it uses the same type of action that an AK-47 uses, which makes it drag-through-the-mud reliable. Second, it's semi-automatic, which means if you miss with the first shot, you have an immediate chance to make up for it. Third, it uses a very powerful 7.62x54R caliber bullet, which is a monster round. The large size of the round and the long barrel of the rifle combine to allow shooting out to 1000yds. A communist sniper issued a Dragunov rifle in the Afghan war stated that he felt confident hitting people out to 800 yds with one shot, and vehicles up to 1000 yds. These features make the perfect long-range weapon for any situation.


Feel free to keep trying to redirect your deceit to me, I hold myself accountable for those actions and have worked hard to fix those. All of those customers paid BHA directly not me, and before I left I made it a personal mission to get them all their refunds. I've made my actions speak louder than words and have spent a full year now trying to help those customers and ensuring anything I attach my name to is backed by real products, real work, and honesty above all. You good sir, are nothing better than the Greasy used car salesman pushing an uneducated customer to pay a premium for a beat, abused car by comparing it to another vehicle that sounds similar and saying its the same thing as its more expensive and better in every way counterpart.

I mean by your logic both a fiesta and a mustang are fords, so in your eyes telling customers about how a mustang is THE american Muscle car design this is the "economy version of a mustang" is fine and then spend the rest of your time talking about how great a mustang is......
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Last edited by Lenin; 04-03-2014 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Colorization
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:17 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
It's a shame to see a good website like this be lowered by the riff raff. I know there are a lot of excellent members here. I have a lot of respect for guys like Berg. I've spoken with Frenchie before, and while we don't agree on everything he definitely has a good heart and a sincere enthusiasm for all things. Hopefully they are the representatives of the gun community that people meet before the fine gentlemen posting so far here.

There have been a lot of good points in this thread. Unfortunately, they were all made by me. My favorite so far is Lenin's. In trying to skim over my observation that Black Horse's photoshopped images went sharply down in quality after he left, all he can say is that they had photoshopped images before and after, so it's not important that the quality went down when he left, and everyone should look away. Yeah, ok. And of course you had nothing to say about the fact that you, and you only, posted auctions on Gunbroker for guns that had not been built yet. Jerry didn't hold a gun to your head (after all, he was on the other side of the country). You are the one who posted auctions for those rifles without mentioning that they had not been built yet. You were probably anticipating that they would be ready by the time people won and paid, but all the same you put those descriptions up with your account while daily updates here on AK Files showed you knew they weren't yet ready for sale. Again, of all the people in the world to say something about deceit on Gunbroker, the man who posted auctions for non-existent guns and likely photoshopped advertising images is the one doing it.

Really nothing substantial anywhere else. A lot of profanity; some people who don't understand economics posting that they don't like high prices. The solution to that in the adult world is that if you don't like the prices somebody has on their property that they are selling, you don't pay them. Maybe if you complain for another 8 years you'll make some progress?

I've posted why we describe the rifles the way we do, and why I believe everything I say. If you disagree, and have your own opinions, that is perfectly fine. When you try to force your opinions on others, and call anyone with an opinion other than yours a liar, you show what a minutely narrow mind you have. False advertising? I'm not a lawyer, but I took quite a few law classes while getting my Master's degree. I assure you, I would have a far stronger case for libel against certain members of this forum than anyone has for a false advertising suit. Of course you're welcome to try. Maybe you'll get rich.

Party on, Garth.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:13 PM   #48
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I'm glad I saved my Tigr from this guy. Apparently he put an offer on it, but the guy refused since he didn't wan't to just see it flipped endlessly.
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:27 PM   #49
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Apache Mission: Find PSLs and Dragunovs on gun broker and flip them for profit with misleading info (on gun broker).

I thought buying guns just to sell them was illegal...
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Old 04-03-2014, 05:42 PM   #50
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Uhmmm.."Dragunov" was the actually last name of the guy who designed the rifle,the SVD. "Kalashnikov" was the name of the fella who designed the AK.
Do you realize how silly you make yourself appear? That you cannot even differentiate between two of Russia's most noted firearms designers?
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:59 PM   #51
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"Better in every way counterpart"? Hmmm... It wasn't better in every way to the Romanians in the 1960's, was it? The cost and tooling involved with the SVD didn't pass the bar. So, at the very least, it has the cost and simplicity of production going for it. If they can make more of them, cheaper, and maintain the near equal performance, then it doesn't make sense to say its inferior in every way, does it? That's not to mention the reliability of the AK action. As we know, I've said a time or two that this was an improvement as well, even though there was little lacking with the original design. And now we get into the endless repetition of the same exact things that have been said over and over again. In my first post of this thread I made my case. In your first post of this thread you make your case. Except then you go on and attempt to make it again and again by copy-and-pasting my description multiple times... and then you throw in something about a Ford Fiesta...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin View Post

This is a used, factory built Romanian Dragunov sniper rifle, complete with original military scope(not the imported version)They imported a shitload of TIPS-2 scopes and all of the accessories pictured. These rifles, also known as a Romak-3, SSG-97, and PSL, are extremely accurate and reliable. The Dragunov design has been in use since the mid 60's, and is still the official design of Russia and other Com-bloc countries. This is the Romanian version, which improved on the Russian design as far as reliability goes. This is a great weapon for several reasons. First, it uses the same type of action that an AK-47 uses, which makes it drag-through-the-mud reliable. Second, it's semi-automatic, which means if you miss with the first shot, you have an immediate chance to make up for it. Third, it uses a very powerful 7.62x54R caliber bullet, which is a monster round. The large size of the round and the long barrel of the rifle combine to allow shooting out to 1000yds. A communist sniper issued a Dragunov rifle in the Afghan war stated that he felt confident hitting people out to 800 yds with one shot, and vehicles up to 1000 yds. These features make the perfect long-range weapon for any situation.
I'm not sure what your elaborate font system is supposed to show. You highlighted in bold different things each time you copied the description. At one point you highlighted in bold the word "used" as if you were implying that the used gun I was selling was not used? I'm very confused. You also highlighted things like "the large size of the round and the long barrel"... are you trying to say that either rifle does not shoot a large round or have a long barrel? You might want to copy and color code the description for a third time, this time better explaining what you are trying to say.

The biggest flaw in your thought process is that you think you can disprove someone else's belief by stating your own belief. Over and over again. This isn't true. I've backed up my belief with the facts presented in my first post and the theory that I've presented. That doesn't make it fact, it just makes it more than some wild hypothesis with nothing to back it up. You can disprove facts, like I've done several times already in this thread, but you can't disprove someone's belief.



Speaking of facts and highlighting things in bold. Once again, it's time to pile the children into the yellow bus and go to Dragunov school. Tonight's lesson is on the difference between imported Romanian scopes and military Romanian scopes. In this picture we see several things:
1. That the left scope is one produced with English markings by Romania for import by us
2. That the middle scope is a Romanian military scope
3. That the right scope is a newer version without Romanian markings
4. That "Lenin" is wrong again and did not know about this difference

These are facts that I sometimes forget amateurs like yourself, who have only handled one or two of these rifles, simply would not know. Once again, we see someone posting about "facts" that they really know nothing about. Facts are something that can be proven or disproven to support theories.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin View Post
Feel free to keep trying to redirect your deceit to me, I hold myself accountable for those actions and have worked hard to fix those. All of those customers paid BHA directly not me, and before I left I made it a personal mission to get them all their refunds. I've made my actions speak louder than words and have spent a full year now trying to help those customers and ensuring anything I attach my name to is backed by real products, real work, and honesty above all.
You've now proclaimed your innocence at least 4 times. As I pointed out originally, we'll probably never know what your actual actions and intentions were as we have nothing to go on but your very questionable word. But we can make a pretty good guess by your less-than-truthful (since we don't want to use the deceit word) actions. And this definitely needed to be mentioned, as a new reader coming upon this thread for the first time might mistake you for a trustworthy person. Pointing out your extremely shady history here gives a reader some context that they can use to make their own decisions.

I was just kidding about posting my color-coded description for a third time. Please don't bore the entire internet by saying the exact same thing again.

Last edited by Apache; 04-16-2014 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:17 PM   #52
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Is there any quality differences in the scopes?
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Old 04-03-2014, 10:36 PM   #53
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Is there any quality differences in the scopes?
No, the only difference is the text or lack of on the disk. I have had at least one of each; some where better, some were worse ... the disk had nothing to do with the quality - it was simply the intended end user.

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Old 04-04-2014, 09:30 AM   #54
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A) Asspache, Don't fucking post someone's full name without permission, complete dickhole move. And fairly certain it's against forum rules.

b) They imported tons of non-english TIPS-2 3/4 I've gotten from Apex were non-english. So yes, it's an imported scope. You chose to say import not commercial specifically in your post to make your "dragunov" seem more tactical / mil-spec / etc.

c) Yes you've owned more PSL's than anyone else in the country, granted your the sole asshole who is out there making disinformation and gobbling up every fairly priced PSL on the market your entire business model. I've only had 6 with 1 I've built myself.... I know I must be a complete newb.

D) You continue to try to deflect your Lies and Dishonesty by trying to talk shit about my past, which really isn't working since your the only one doing so.

E) The bold / color shows your intentional misrepresentation of your rifles. Since you decided to point out how you did mention that you said it uses an AK design for a total of about 3% of your listing, the ENTIRE rest is talking about an entirely different weapon.

And of course you didn't respond at all to the accurate highlighting of your intentional disinformation.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:24 AM   #55
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:03 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin View Post
They imported tons of non-english TIPS-2 3/4 I've gotten from Apex were non-english. So yes, it's an imported scope. You chose to say import not commercial specifically in your post to make your "dragunov" seem more tactical / mil-spec / etc.
My description doesn't say import scope, it says import version. Once again, its your reading comprehension that fails you, not my "decit" (sic).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin View Post
D) You continue to try to deflect your Lies and Dishonesty by trying to talk shit about my past, which really isn't working since your the only one doing so.
From 4/3/14:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache
As I pointed out originally, we'll probably never know what your actual actions and intentions were as we have nothing to go on but your very questionable word. But we can make a pretty good guess by your less-than-truthful (since we don't want to use the deceit word) actions. And this definitely needed to be mentioned, as a new reader coming upon this thread for the first time might mistake you for a trustworthy person. Pointing out your extremely shady history here gives a reader some context that they can use to make their own decisions.
The accuser's credibility is always a key factor in any accusation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin View Post
E) The bold / color shows your intentional misrepresentation of your rifles. Since you decided to point out how you did mention that you said it uses an AK design for a total of about 3% of your listing, the ENTIRE rest is talking about an entirely different weapon.

And of course you didn't respond at all to the accurate highlighting of your intentional disinformation.
From 4/3/14:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apache
I'm not sure what your elaborate font system is supposed to show. You highlighted in bold different things each time you copied the description. At one point you highlighted in bold the word "used" as if you were implying that the used gun I was selling was not used? I'm very confused. You also highlighted things like "the large size of the round and the long barrel"... are you trying to say that either rifle does not shoot a large round or have a long barrel? You might want to copy and color code the description for a third time, this time better explaining what you are trying to say.
If you don't know what it is that you're trying to say, how can you expect anyone else to?

Are you trying to say that you don't agree with a Romanian PSL being called a Romanian Dragunov? What a novel concept. I don't think we've covered that one yet...
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:15 PM   #57
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A) Asspache, Don't fucking post someone's full name without permission, complete dickhole move. And fairly certain it's against forum rules.
Oh I'm sorry. This guy had already posted it several times, so I thought it would be alright. You should let him know: http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=12

What? Are you worried you'll receive more death threats from people whose money you stole? Its funny, in all the years I've been selling things, no one has felt cheated and lied to enough (or at all) to threaten my life. Of course there is only one of us that can say that.

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Old 04-04-2014, 01:58 PM   #58
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""My description doesn't say import scope, it says import version. Once again, its your reading comprehension that fails you, not my "decit" (sic).""

It actually says with original military scope(not the imported version) your words, chosen to make the PSL seem more like an SVD. Fact is Every scope is imported, and yes usually it would be a simple technicality. But it's simply another part of passing your import off as a military arm, since this never had a bayonet lug installed, and since it's made in 03 as a ROMAK it was made specifically for importing to the US..... So no, it's not an issue with reading comprehension it's a gear in your clockwork bullshit.

And again, you trying desperately to drag me down, whilst ignoring all the clear statements backed with facts. And again Posting someones full name without permission on a public space is a complete dick move, and yes i posted it before to actually help customers wronged by BHA..... So kindly fuck off on that front as well.

But again, please continue in the tradition of BHA, Lancaster, and the like and just continue to do your thing.
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:28 PM   #59
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Old 04-04-2014, 05:19 PM   #60
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I used to consider Apache as a possible source for any future mags/parts I needed. Not after this thread.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:17 PM   #61
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I finally "get" the Apache name. It's all about the scalping.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:47 PM   #62
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Have 1/2 full jug of fire water up for some horse trading.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:15 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Apache View Post
Its funny, in all the years I've been selling things, no one has felt cheated and lied to enough (or at all) to threaten my life. Of course there is only one of us that can say that.
Asspache, your life is obviously not worth threatening so that settles that. Go back to pushing your 5% premium for flip-flops to the starvin' Marvins and let us gun owners (none of which were acquired from you) discuss our Kalashnikovs and Dragunovs.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:44 PM   #64
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What? Are you worried you'll receive more death threats from people whose money you stole? Its funny, in all the years I've been selling things, no one has felt cheated and lied to enough (or at all) to threaten my life. Of course there is only one of us that can say that.
Lenin didn't steal any money, he tried his best to refund those who didn't get their money back. You still don't explain why you sell PSLs at over 2k? That's a ridiculous price for a PSL. You wonder why you're so hated on this forum? Why exactly did you contribute your money to this forum? You haven't been here this long... I'm not hating on you I just want to know. Is your business just buying and selling dragunov & PSL rifles?
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:58 PM   #65
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I used to consider Apache as a possible source for any future mags/parts I needed. Not after this thread.
Its safe to assume that its a mutual decision to not do business if you're the type of person that was persuaded by the color coded, bold font abortion of an argument that Cody posted, or a Wayne's World quote. We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone; some customers are simply more trouble than they're worth.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:05 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenin View Post

It actually says with original military scope(not the imported version) your words, chosen to make the PSL seem more like an SVD.
Ok, I'm going to try to wrap my mind around this. By calling the military scope, on the Romanian rifle I'm selling, a military scope I am attempting to deceive people into thinking they are buying a Russian rifle? I'm not even mad at myself for not knowing I was doing that, I'm just impressed that I was able to convey that message without even trying. I must be some kind of genius and not even know it...

...or maybe I was saying that the buyer is getting the military scope with the rifle, and not the import version of the scope (difference pictured above), exactly as it was described. All scopes are imported, that doesn't make all imported scopes the version made specifically for import.




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And again, you trying desperately to drag me down
I'm not trying. At all. Its really very easy.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:15 PM   #67
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Yes, you are attempting to deceive. Plain and simple, you hope to rape the ignorant.
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Old 04-04-2014, 09:33 PM   #68
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Got it. Its so clear now.
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:20 PM   #69
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Plain and simple, guy; you probably don't want to admit it, or maybe there is a shred of possibility that you can't see why, but your advert is misleading. If your pictures of the rifle were not available, I would be under the assumption that I was buying a Dragunov, not a Romanian knock-off, however your mention of it being an AK-actioned rifle would(and rightly should) prove it otherwise.

If I wanted to go and list any old AK-47 on Gunbroker, then put a nice and neat description about the STG-44 in there, would that be okay? I mean, they're both pretty similar in appearance, so it's cool, right? The STG is so awesome, though; first used/made/issued assault rifle, it's German, so it's pretty awesome from that merit, and this, and that, etc.. But this AK was manufactured in the 70s. In Russia. And it has a completely different action. But gee wow, that STG, so awesome!

Or maybe if I was trying to convince a friend to enlist in the Air Force, but I go off about how awesome the Army is, and that they have tanks and helicopters, and so many combat and support jobs. Hey, the Air Force really only uses fixed wing aircraft. But there were a ton of awesome Soldiers, like Audie Murphy, blah blah blah. Then I hand him enlistment papers for the Air Force after telling him all this cool shit about the Army. Maybe it's just a bit misleading? Just a tad?


You'll probably pass this off like every other rational counter that's been presented in this thread, but that's alright. Your beliefs are your beliefs; that's cool and totally understandable, and if somebody honestly wants to drop 2k on an inferior rifle without doing their research on them is probably better off without it, but we won't let you off easy
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Old 04-04-2014, 10:35 PM   #70
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Can i get a set of those sweet ass flip flops you sent to kids in africa?

Serious question, as i broke my gym shower shoes this morning...
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