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Old 03-21-2014, 03:00 PM   #1
WolfmanReid
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Default SVD/SVDS/TIGR Operating Rod and Spring

Apologies in advance if everyone is already aware of this, but I finally got around to photographing the op rods and spring on the SVDS and the SVD. As you can see, both are substantially shorter on the SVDS and Tigr than on the SVD.

Top SVD
Bottom Tigr/SVDS



Anyone aware of why they made the change in length? I was not aware until recently of the length difference between the SVD and Tigr, and always just assumed that the shorter barrel changed the gas pressure to some degree, and the 10.5mm piston and gas chamber on the SVDS was the reason for the different dimensions of the op rods. But AFAIK the 9.5mm piston and shorter op rod and spring work just fine with an adjustable regulator in the "open" position on a shorter barreled Tigr.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:26 PM   #2
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Could it be a difference in the age of the SVD that this rod came off of? I've been looking at different gas blocks on the SVD and TIGR for my own project, trying to figure out the best way to go about it and noticed that there are difference gas blocks and sling mounts on early and later SVD rifles; perhaps the rods are a different length along those same lines? Just speculation on my part, of course.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pvt.Joker View Post
Could it be a difference in the age of the SVD that this rod came off of? I've been looking at different gas blocks on the SVD and TIGR for my own project, trying to figure out the best way to go about it and noticed that there are difference gas blocks and sling mounts on early and later SVD rifles; perhaps the rods are a different length along those same lines? Just speculation on my part, of course.
It is possible but I don't think so... I cross checked it against several different operating rods and they are all the same length. I am fascinated with the minutia of how these rifles changed over the decades.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:52 PM   #4
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Slight timing change with the shorter barrel perhaps?
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:19 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by WolfmanReid View Post
It is possible but I don't think so... I cross checked it against several different operating rods and they are all the same length. I am fascinated with the minutia of how these rifles changed over the decades.
Just wondering... I know they changed the twist rate at some point; wonder if it might relate to that time period? Is there a corresponding difference in the front of the bolt carrier where the rod impacts it? It HAS been a while since I had one in my hands.

One other question (and may seem like an obvious one) but are these BOTH Russian rods? Or is the longer SVD one for a Chinese NDM-86 7.62x54R version? Perhaps the difference might be in that? (IF that's the case. If they are both Russian, then back to square one)
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:37 PM   #6
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If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that it was shortened for ease of field stripping. The longer the rod is, the harder it is to get out. They probably changed the depth of the socket in the piston and shortened the rod in order to make things a little easier.

Although you'd think they'd trim from the other end if that were the case. Maybe the longer stroke length on the piston rod during cycling helps in extreme conditions?
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:29 PM   #7
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Wolfman, is there any chance you could put a calipers on those and measure them?

I'm particularly curious about the SVDS. The one I saw had the spring and piston rod cut short during demilling.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by tbasmwmc View Post
Wolfman, is there any chance you could put a calipers on those and measure them?

I'm particularly curious about the SVDS. The one I saw had the spring and piston rod cut short during demilling.
The one from the SVDS is exactly identical to the Tiger one. The SVD ones are identical dimensionally to the NDM-86 ones. The 1960s era SVD rod pictured and the 1980s era ones I have are the same although I don't have a KBI or current production SVD to compare to sadly, although I have what I believe is a 90s field repair kit with an op rod the same length as the SVD ones. The only determining factor I can figure is barrel length affecting timing? I haven't compared the weight of the type 1 and type 2 bolt carriers however.

Hope that helps.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:49 PM   #9
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It seems strange - the SVD and Tiger handguards are the same length, and the gas regulator is positioned the same in relation to those handguards, therefore the gas regulator is the same distance from the receiver in each version. On the "short" rods the piston is fully seated in the gas regulator and the rear of the rod is seated on the face of the bolt carrier. In theory, if you were to pull a Tiger rod and put it into an SVD, the rod would have a running start at the bolt carrier and slam into it during firing. If you were to take the longer SVD rod and put it into the Tiger, it would hold the bolt carrier back, probably enough to pull the bolt out of battery.

Something else has to be different too, maybe the depth that the rod seats into the gas piston before bottoming out? There's a guy selling one on Gunbroker, I'm curious now as to what length it is.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about something here. Hmmmm.
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbasmwmc View Post
It seems strange - the SVD and Tiger handguards are the same length, and the gas regulator is positioned the same in relation to those handguards, therefore the gas regulator is the same distance from the receiver in each version. On the "short" rods the piston is fully seated in the gas regulator and the rear of the rod is seated on the face of the bolt carrier. In theory, if you were to pull a Tiger rod and put it into an SVD, the rod would have a running start at the bolt carrier and slam into it during firing. If you were to take the longer SVD rod and put it into the Tiger, it would hold the bolt carrier back, probably enough to pull the bolt out of battery.

Something else has to be different too, maybe the depth that the rod seats into the gas piston before bottoming out? There's a guy selling one on Gunbroker, I'm curious now as to what length it is.

I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about something here. Hmmmm.
Well, if you look close at the gas block on the early SVD vs. the KBI-era versions, they ARE two different gas blocks (as well as the front site bases being different) but it doesn't seem like there could be THAT much difference in them. The sling mounts are different (the early one is a separate piece like the TIGR only a round hole instead of the TIGR hoop, and the later KBI-era ones have the round hole version made into the upper slope of the gas block), it looks like the front slope of the block may be different, and the bottom of the gas block where the pins go in is "humped" on the late versions but flatter on the early ones. Are the gas pistons different between the two types as well? Maybe a deeper inset where the rod goes into the back of the pistol?

By the way, when you had the barrels made, I know you used the early twist rate of 1:12.6 but is there a different barrel profile between the early 620mm barrels and the late ones?
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:05 AM   #11
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Both my Tiger and NDM-86 in .308 have identical oprods. Both measure 12 inches in length with a 3 inch section to goes under the rear sight housing.

My Tiger oprod is numbered to my rifle with the last 3 digits stamped in the flat area on the end of the rod. Is yours numbered to your Tiger?

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Old 03-22-2014, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfmanReid View Post
Apologies in advance if everyone is already aware of this, but I finally got around to photographing the op rods and spring on the SVDS and the SVD. As you can see, both are substantially shorter on the SVDS and Tigr than on the SVD.

Top SVD
Bottom Tigr/SVDS

Anyone aware of why they made the change in length? I was not aware until recently of the length difference between the SVD and Tigr, and always just assumed that the shorter barrel changed the gas pressure to some degree, and the 10.5mm piston and gas chamber on the SVDS was the reason for the different dimensions of the op rods. But AFAIK the 9.5mm piston and shorter op rod and spring work just fine with an adjustable regulator in the "open" position on a shorter barreled Tigr.
On my Tigr "05"(SVD type) made in 2012 rod as top one on your picture.
Tomorow I could check original SVD of early 90es manufacture.

If your "short stroke' rod really Izevsk made, I think it could be two versions
- for shorter barrel SVDS and short Tigers
- for Tigers without gas regulator

PS to some posts comparing SVD and SVT - I have both. Yes, design and bolt system absolutely different, but gas rod system very semilar.
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Old 03-22-2014, 04:46 PM   #13
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Another interesting detail is that my SVDS with short op rod won't cycle with a 9.5mm regulator and piston in the open position. Works flawlessly with the 10.5mm and piston. I think GeorgeSP is exactly correct and the shorter op rod only works on a TIGR without adjustable regulator.
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:45 PM   #14
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Quote:
By the way, when you had the barrels made, I know you used the early twist rate of 1:12.6 but is there a different barrel profile between the early 620mm barrels and the late ones?
Not that I'm aware of, but then again I was patterning off of a 90's era barrel. It's possible that they made a change somewhere between the 1970's and the current era, though. Since the NDM is a clone of a early 70's SVD, it would make sense that the rods are the same. And I would imagine that a SVDS-converted Tiger would have the same rod length as a Tiger. From what I understand, Richard Parker has to make a new gas piston with each conversion, so he would make the piston fit the rod. On the demilled SVDS I saw, they had cut the spring and the rod shorter, and it was pretty clear that an operable SVDS would have longer components before demilling.

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Old 03-22-2014, 07:55 PM   #15
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OK, here's something else to chew on. Here's the rod and spring out of my Tiger.

Rod OAL - 300mm
Spring OAL - 132mm


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Old 03-22-2014, 08:11 PM   #16
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Wolfman, are you sure that short rod isn't off of a demilled SVDS? The end of the spring looks wonky. Are both ends "closed" or is one end of the spring cut and doesn't have that last bit where the turns are close together and touching? Here it is compared to mine:

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Old 03-23-2014, 02:37 AM   #17
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I don't have this rifle anymore, but here's a photo I have showing the one that was in my last TIGR.



No tape measure beside it or anything, but the proportions of the lengths of the rod look consistent with your long rod TIGR photos. Of course, that still doesn't solve the mystery of the Long Rod...

I am glad to know the barrel is profiled to the 1990s components like the gas block from the TIGR. Ever since I figured out that there were two different versions of front site bases, gas blocks, etc. I was wondering how that was going to work on mine. The TIGR I am working on getting has the flat-bottomed gas block with the separate sling hook assembly, not the later KBI-style version with the sling hoop made onto the block itself. Also, the front site base is the earlier Izhmach one with the slightly taller bayonet mount profile. So it will wind up a mixture of early style front end and barrel with a late-style flat side receiver. Not that anyone but a handful of people- most of whom are here and on the AK Forum- would ever be able to pick up on the minute differences. My main concern was just if I was going to have to try and source different barrel components or not from those off the 1993 TIGR. It sounds like it shouldn't be a problem, though. First things first; to get the barrel and the rifle paid for. Then to go from there...
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Old 03-23-2014, 04:36 AM   #18
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Just checked - real army SVD 1995 year manufactured have long stroke rode.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:57 PM   #19
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Just checked - real army SVD 1995 year manufactured have long stroke rode.
Hey George, since you are over there- any way of determining about what year the SVD went from using the gas block with the separate sling mount to using the gas block with the sling mount made onto the side of the gas block?
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Old 03-23-2014, 02:07 PM   #20
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Hey George, since you are over there- any way of determining about what year the SVD went from using the gas block with the separate sling mount to using the gas block with the sling mount made onto the side of the gas block?
Till 1994 (including that year) it were two parts. Later one part.
But our civilian market Tigers have else one version - two parts with "long" sling mount hole.

PS - it seems that short stroke rod - from SVDS
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Old 03-23-2014, 03:43 PM   #21
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Till 1994 (including that year) it were two parts. Later one part.
But our civilian market Tigers have else one version - two parts with "long" sling mount hole.

PS - it seems that short stroke rod - from SVDS
So the two piece version on the 1993 TIGR I am going to convert to SVD specs is correct as a two-piece version. Thank you; that is good to know. That also makes sense that the SVD rifles that KBI imported had the one piece version, as they were supposed to be the newest pattern rifles when they were purchased from Izhmach in 1994. But mine as a 1993 dated rifle would still be correct except for having the civilian TIGR markings and import markings.

Thank you for letting me know that.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:41 AM   #22
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Thank you for letting me know that.
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:35 PM   #23
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:06 AM   #24
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I wonder why the op rod is shorter in the SVDS.
Also I have never seen a tiger with a short op rod before. All of mine all had the same length oprod, the same with the NDM's.

As berg mentioned, if it is original it should be serialed to the rifle.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:26 PM   #25
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Here is the pusher-rod out of my '93 Tiger.

This is how it should look installed. Pusher-rod will be flush with back of the rear handguard retainer.

This is the maximum travel of the pusher-rod.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:38 PM   #26
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I wonder why the op rod is shorter in the SVDS.
I suspect it's not. My suspicion is that the donor demilled SVDS had it's op rod cut shorter to make reactivation that much harder. (The SVDS kit I handled had its op rod cut, but I can't speak for all SVDS kits.) Then, when it came time to convert a Tiger to SVDS config, the op rods got mixed up or the Tiger's op rod was cut to match the (cut) SVDS one.

I could be wrong, just a suspicion. But Wolfman says he has trouble with it cycling with the regulator open, so I'm doubly suspicious. But again, could be wrong, I've never seen an operable SVDS in real life.
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:36 PM   #27
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I suspect it's not. My suspicion is that the donor demilled SVDS had it's op rod cut shorter to make reactivation that much harder. (The SVDS kit I handled had its op rod cut, but I can't speak for all SVDS kits.) Then, when it came time to convert a Tiger to SVDS config, the op rods got mixed up or the Tiger's op rod was cut to match the (cut) SVDS one.

I could be wrong, just a suspicion. But Wolfman says he has trouble with it cycling with the regulator open, so I'm doubly suspicious. But again, could be wrong, I've never seen an operable SVDS in real life.
You may well be correct. The Tigr converted SVDS I have cycles fine with the 10.5mm SVDS regulator and original SVDS piston in both open and closed positions, but will not cycle properly with a 9.5mm SVD piston and regulator in the open position. I should be able to compare it with another Tigr this weekend.

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Old 03-28-2014, 12:02 PM   #28
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SVDS only use the 10.5mm piston/gas regulator due to the shortened barrel length and lower barrel gas pressure. Using a 9.5mm SVD or Tiger piston/gas regulator will not function properly on a SVDS. Now, the other way around does work - you can use the 10.5mm piston/gas regulator on a SVD or Tiger, but, it will exert more pressure in the cycling action (not recommended).
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:59 AM   #29
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Default SVD Recoil Spring

I need to locate an SVD Recoil Spring
Can anyone help Thanks
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:24 AM   #30
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My guess is that since the SVDS has a shorter barrel, the gas port hole size is probably different size than the stock SVD: So more than likely the pistons and regulator required some tweaking to work properly. The larger piston and cylinder may be required for the SVDS to ensure proper operation under the most extreme conditions also.

Regarding the piston rod length I am not sure as to why the SVDS piston rod is shorter. I have a SVDS kit and its piston rod is of the shorter type.
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