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Old 06-18-2017, 06:55 PM   #3641
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Originally Posted by 1biggun View Post
Fact. 5.56 is faster.
Fact there are more accurate loads in 5.56 and 223.
Fact there are more rifles choices to shoot 5.56 and 223.
Fact there are rifle choices from about $200 on up in 223
Fact only one company is now offering a 5.45 AK type rifle and AR versions are near extinct.
Fact 7n6 is banned from import.
Fact 7n6 is corrosive.
Fact 223 can be found cheaper or the same cost
Fact fact 5.56 can easly and practical reloaded
Fact there is no 5.45 brass avaliable
Fact 223 /5.56 are used in more home defense situations than 5.45.
Fact 5.56 can and is used in 1000 yard shooting competions.
Fact most 5.45 rifles are not better than 1.5" MOA at 100 yards any many are much worse.
Fact 5.45 is not allowed at many ranges.
Fact millions of people shoot 5.56 and 223
Fact 5.56/223 has more lethal and better barrier penitration as well as fragmenting rounds for better defensive or offensive situations .
Fact 5.56/223 is the number one selling and most used rifle round in the US and a good part of the world.
Fact most experianced hunters don't consider 5.45 a good choice for deer due to its light bullet ,slower speed and poor accuracy. The same hunters will say the same about 223.
Fact the Hornady HITS calculator classifys as a small game round for hunting applications.

I have not had to lie or misquote anyone. Once again ignore facts resort to name calling.

Now let's hear about muzzel flash ,16" barrels and pussies that cant handel the recoil of a 5.56.
You made it about one fact before you exposed how little you really know.


But your effort was cute, like a little autistic kid learning colors.
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Old 06-18-2017, 07:31 PM   #3642
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What's the matter the facts are something you know is true??
We're is all the fake news facts about majic tumbling bullets and unicorn ammo you will never see??

All you have is as a cheap as some guys were smart enough to stack in some cheap surplus ammo other than that you have very little.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:01 PM   #3643
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What's the matter the facts are something you know is true??
We're is all the fake news facts about majic tumbling bullets and unicorn ammo you will never see??

All you have is as a cheap as some guys were smart enough to stack in some cheap surplus ammo other than that you have very little.
Summing this post up, "my vagina hurts and I have sand In it."
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:19 PM   #3644
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What's the matter the facts are something you know is true??
We're is all the fake news facts about majic tumbling bullets and unicorn ammo you will never see??

All you have is as a cheap as some guys were smart enough to stack in some cheap surplus ammo other than that you have very little.
Alright, I got one for you, I bet you never thought of this...


This thread will get to 545 before it will get to 556!
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:21 PM   #3645
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Alright, I got one for you, I bet you never thought of this...


This thread will get to 545 before it will get to 556!
Good point.

Hopefully 545 will still be around when we get there though.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:22 PM   #3646
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Summing this post up, "my vagina hurts and I have sand In it."
If you don't have a real point to argue.......
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:53 PM   #3647
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^good little government citizen obeying his masters��
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:16 PM   #3648
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I believe the point was sand in a vagina can be painful.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:18 PM   #3649
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Good point.

Hopefully 545 will still be around when we get there though.
Hopefully you will be too
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:21 PM   #3650
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Hopefully you will be too
Burn.
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Old 06-18-2017, 09:56 PM   #3651
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Burn.
Sigiloso is good people even if he is a bit of a hard on.


Yeah I know, but he has a heart of gold.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:05 PM   #3652
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Sigiloso is good people even if he is a bit of a hard on.


Yeah I know, but he has a heart of gold.
Eat muh shorts.
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Old 06-18-2017, 10:09 PM   #3653
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Eat muh shorts.
Well if I gotta, if I could have some hot sauce and a bag of crackers please Sir!!
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Old 06-18-2017, 11:27 PM   #3654
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Well if I gotta, if I could have some hot sauce and a bag of crackers please Sir!!
Hmm, I have some sriracha.
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:27 AM   #3655
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I'm beginning to think 1bigfudd doesn't even hunt. There are just way too many inaccuracies, assumptions, and idiocy with his comments relating to the subject.
or shoot
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:39 AM   #3656
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Well if I gotta, if I could have some hot sauce and a bag of crackers please Sir!!
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Old 06-19-2017, 10:48 AM   #3657
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^good little government citizen obeying his masters��
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I believe the point was sand in a vagina can be painful.
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Hopefully you will be too
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Burn.
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Originally Posted by Ulfrinn View Post
Hmm, I have some sriracha.
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or shoot

Ah, the little anklebiters are out in force.

My statement stands, there is no salient point that exists that would put 5.45 even close to 5.56, so you resort to insults and attacking the messenger.

As far as1biggun's familiatrity with firearms, I don't know the man, but with each passing page, it becomes apparent that he has forgotten more about firearms, than the lot of you together ever knew, or will ever know.

"Team 5.45" hasn't put up an ounce of argument that 5.45 is "better than 5.56", and can't, because there is no argument.

The simple availability of guns, ammo types, and components alone, all "performance" issues aside, buries the 5.45.
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Old 06-19-2017, 01:54 PM   #3658
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or shoot
But that was a given.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:38 PM   #3659
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Lot of trash talk yet no one can
Or will dispute the facts I posted.
Most if team 5.45's crap sounds like shit a kid would say when bragging up the wing he installed on his rusty civic .

Did you know you can buy barrels for a AK 74 to make it a 223?

Funny not many guys go the other direction and convert 223s to 5.45. A few guys have im sure have when the old corrosive surplus was cheap.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:06 PM   #3660
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But that was a given.
It would not matter if I or someone else have never held a rifle or shot a round the facts are the facts. It dosent matter if I say it or some one else does its the reality of the situation .

Close or almost as good or even as good is not better.
In some areas it's not even close.

I have rifles that are in calibers not as good as other simular ones I don't get all bent because someone knows this or says it.

I don't get pissed because my 300 savage is not quite as good as a 308 win or worry about if the 260 or 6.5x55 is better than the other. I'm not concerned if my 7 Mauser is as good as a 7mm-08 or not.
If I like the rifle and can afford it I buy it if I want.
I tend to stick with rounds I can get good ammo for and reload for.

Stop lashing out because someone shows the facts of your favorite round and another. Accept what it is and enjoy it or upgrade it dosent matter.

Hell I've raced motorcycles in classes I had no chance of winning but still had fun. I just never tried to pretend it was faster or claim it was.

It's fun ridding a slow bike fast.
Perhaps you can find the same type of enjoyment shooting the 5.45.
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Old 06-19-2017, 08:23 PM   #3661
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It would not matter if I or someone else have never held a rifle or shot a round the facts are the facts. It dosent matter if I say it or some one else does its the reality of the situation .

Close or almost as good or even as good is not better.
In some areas it's not even close.

I have rifles that are in calibers not as good as other simular ones I don't get all bent because someone knows this or says it.

I don't get pissed because my 300 savage is not quite as good as a 308 win or worry about if the 260 or 6.5x55 is better than the other. I'm not concerned if my 7 Mauser is as good as a 7mm-08 or not.
If I like the rifle and can afford it I buy it if I want.
I tend to stick with rounds I can get good ammo for and reload for.

Stop lashing out because someone shows the facts of your favorite round and another. Accept what it is and enjoy it or upgrade it dosent matter.

Hell I've raced motorcycles in classes I had no chance of winning but still had fun. I just never tried to pretend it was faster or claim it was.

It's fun ridding a slow bike fast.
Perhaps you can find the same type of enjoyment shooting the 5.45.
Way too much sense in that post for these fanboy youngsters.

They may get it in a few years,... if they grow up.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:27 AM   #3662
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Hopefully you will be too
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:49 AM   #3663
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So, shall we discuss the charging Alaskan grizzly bear killed with an AK-74, yet allegedly isn't even suitable to kill deer? LMAO.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:00 AM   #3664
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Way too much sense in that post for these fanboy youngsters.

They may get it in a few years,... if they grow up.
And be what? Sniveling girls like you and your new girlfriend?


No thanks.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:54 AM   #3665
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And be what? Sniveling girls like you and your new girlfriend?


No thanks.
Easy I got banned for saying girl friend.
I don't want to be banned for making fun of Sigilosos girl friend if he takes you up on the offer.

I don't want to see you banned either . Your to much of a source of amusement on here.

I suggest you just wear a bag over your head when shooting to hide from the embarrassment.
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:57 AM   #3666
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So, shall we discuss the charging Alaskan grizzly bear killed with an AK-74, yet allegedly isn't even suitable to kill deer? LMAO.

Sure how many shots was it and what dump ass would carry a 5.45 for grizzley bear defense?

Want to discuss how a girl killed one of the biggest bears in history with a 22 LR up there to??

Was that a good choice?? The 22lr gas less recoil and muzzel flash. You should adopt it for bear hunting.
I suggest you wear a meat suit.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:25 AM   #3667
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But that was a given.
tru dat
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Old 06-20-2017, 11:40 AM   #3668
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I see where you mentioned the targets.

Not proud, just aware of facts, having shot on a regular basis, for several years, with a number of different rounds and rifles, in a competitive environment, out to 600 yards, with iron sights, in all types of weather conditions, recording each of my shots in my notebook, with everyone's scores being witnessed, scored and recorded and then ranked by a sanctioning body. FWIW the 600 yard NRA High Power Target, has a 5" X-ring.

Not one day, at 700 yards, in someone's backyard, making "consistent" hits. Again, the difference between being a serious, and a casual shooter. How windy was it? How many rounds missed the target completely vs hit it?

I am not knocking you for shooting that way. I do it all the time in my back yard too. The fact that you are knocking other types of shooting as being "elitist" or Fuddish, just points up your lack of knowledge and experience, and that's what I am knocking you for. I'll say it once more, that's the difference between a serious and a casual shooter.

Where did you compete? Reading, Nashua, Hamden.....Ohio...?

The "X" ring on a MR-1 600 yard target is 6". What type of targets were you using?
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:11 PM   #3669
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Where did you compete? Reading, Nashua, Hamden.....Ohio...?

The "X" ring on a MR-1 600 yard target is 6". What type of targets were you using?
i liked the pits in Hamden. Nice range!
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:19 PM   #3670
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i liked the pits in Hamden. Nice range!
When in PA, I shoot at Reade.....That's a nice range!

Last edited by Hondo; 06-20-2017 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 06-20-2017, 01:30 PM   #3671
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Where did you compete? Reading, Nashua, Hamden.....Ohio...?

The "X" ring on a MR-1 600 yard target is 6". What type of targets were you using?
All over the country, primarily in Texas though.

You are correct on the 6" X-ring, thanks for catching my typo.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:14 PM   #3672
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Did you know you can buy barrels for a AK 74 to make it a 223?

Funny not many guys go the other direction and convert 223s to 5.45. A few guys have im sure have when the old corrosive surplus was cheap.
Lots of guys built ARs in 5.45 back when it was .12 a round....was a wise move at the time
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:41 PM   #3673
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Did you know you can buy barrels for a AK 74 to make it a 223?

Funny not many guys go the other direction and convert 223s to 5.45. A few guys have im sure have when the old corrosive surplus was cheap.
Did you know you can buy barrels to make any 5.56 AK, and many other rifles 5.45?

As many AKs are converted from 5.56 to 5.45 as 5.45 to 5.56. I have one that began as a 5.56 rifle and converted to 5.45. There are even guys on here with 5.45 Galils, Valmets, VZs, SKSs, ARs, etc...

I didn't do it to save money either, in fact it's one of my most expensive rifles to date. Like you saw the potential in 7.62x39 20 years ago and defied the naysayers, I see the potential 5.45 has, and am defying you.

How long has it been since you toyed with 5.45? 15 years? I'd venture to say the best you could do 15 years ago isn't the best you can do today. You've 15 years of experience over yourself 15 years ago. Powders have improved, bullets have improved, your technique has improved, ypur equipment has likely improved, better barrels are available than the trashed Tantal barrel you used 15 years ago, etc...

While reloading and shooting gophers at half a mile is of little interest or use to me, I do respect your skills. What I respect more is the attitude you had 20 years ago when everyone told you an AK couldn't. Unfortunately you've lost that attitude, and become the very critic you fought so hard to disprove. That's a damn shame.
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Old 06-20-2017, 04:11 PM   #3674
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Did you know you can buy barrels to make any 5.56 AK, and many other rifles 5.45?

As many AKs are converted from 5.56 to 5.45 as 5.45 to 5.56. I have one that began as a 5.56 rifle and converted to 5.45. There are even guys on here with 5.45 Galils, Valmets, VZs, SKSs, ARs, etc...

I didn't do it to save money either, in fact it's one of my most expensive rifles to date. Like you saw the potential in 7.62x39 20 years ago and defied the naysayers, I see the potential 5.45 has, and am defying you.

How long has it been since you toyed with 5.45? 15 years? I'd venture to say the best you could do 15 years ago isn't the best you can do today. You've 15 years of experience over yourself 15 years ago. Powders have improved, bullets have improved, your technique has improved, ypur equipment has likely improved, better barrels are available than the trashed Tantal barrel you used 15 years ago, etc...

While reloading and shooting gophers at half a mile is of little interest or use to me, I do respect your skills. What I respect more is the attitude you had 20 years ago when everyone told you an AK couldn't. Unfortunately you've lost that attitude, and become the very critic you fought so hard to disprove. That's a damn shame.
Problem is, you can't "toy with 5.45", to any satisfactory degree. The lack of quality ammunition, and reloadability sees to that.

As far as AKs? No one here is arguing against them. The issue is 5.45 v 5.56, and the fact that you can "toy" with 5.56, with whats available for it, to your hearts content, is the deal breaker for 5.45, and leaves it in second place, to the 5.45, in this discussion.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:03 PM   #3675
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Originally Posted by chknfkr View Post
Did you know you can buy barrels to make any 5.56 AK, and many other rifles 5.45?

As many AKs are converted from 5.56 to 5.45 as 5.45 to 5.56. I have one that began as a 5.56 rifle and converted to 5.45. There are even guys on here with 5.45 Galils, Valmets, VZs, SKSs, ARs, etc...

I didn't do it to save money either, in fact it's one of my most expensive rifles to date. Like you saw the potential in 7.62x39 20 years ago and defied the naysayers, I see the potential 5.45 has, and am defying you.

How long has it been since you toyed with 5.45? 15 years? I'd venture to say the best you could do 15 years ago isn't the best you can do today. You've 15 years of experience over yourself 15 years ago. Powders have improved, bullets have improved, your technique has improved, ypur equipment has likely improved, better barrels are available than the trashed Tantal barrel you used 15 years ago, etc...

While reloading and shooting gophers at half a mile is of little interest or use to me, I do respect your skills. What I respect more is the attitude you had 20 years ago when everyone told you an AK couldn't. Unfortunately you've lost that attitude, and become the very critic you fought so hard to disprove. That's a damn shame.
I agree with a lot about what you said bit the issue is why do it?
Sure give me a match barrel, a custom reamer to better fit reformed 223 brass and all the stuff I can do and I'll give you a pretty accurate 5.45 that won't shoot factory smmo.
I might even be able to do it on reformed 222 in a standard chamber. It won't out perform my 223 and will be 10 times harder and expensive. There is just no performance giant or coast advantage.

Years back I took on doing a accurate AK in 7.62x39 and 223 . I was able to build a 1/2 " rifle pretty cheap.
Today other than doing it just to prove it can be done I can't gain a lot over a cheap AR.

I have two builds planned / started that will maybe show a gain but the cost savings is gone..

If I could show a viable accuracy increase or velocity advantage I'd consider messing with 5.45.
It's a reliable round but I can't show any gains in my use.

If some body want to try a more accurate build I'll do any thing I can to help. I'm all for it but I just don't see a big up side here unless some brass or better ammo comes along

I dont really know how many guys today consider converting a 223 to 5.45. Back when ammo was cheap I know few he did.

I know of a few runs of barrels
to make 5.45 into 223.

Powder hasent changed to much in 10 years.
There are a couple powders that burn cleaner and prevent fouling for 223 but nothing that's going to give 5.45 any advantage.

I'm sitting on 5 or 6 AK 74 bolt,carrier, trunion with RSB asemblies. I'd love to see some good 5.45 brass but untill then there destination is likey toward 223 based rounds.
Like a 17-223 or 20 cal or even a 300 BO if the HPA passes. At least one light weight carry 223 with a side folder for fun.

I still think the AK can be built to out shoot the better ARs.
I haven't lost the desire to do it but when your looking at $400 barrels, and kits worth $400 to rib parts from you start to think about what's the gain. That's were my passion is.
My 44 wild cat is also a priority. I plan on hunting this year with the 44 BGM in a pistol configuration possable in a AK.
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