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Old 07-19-2018, 01:06 PM   #71
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I agree worth it to SBR. As stated brace ARs all day shockwave looks pretty good.

braced AKs though *shudder* get the stamp
The only brace that looks decent on an AK is the sob, but only if the rifle has black poly hgs and pg. I have one on my 106ur pistol and it looks pretty good—stock would look better, but I haven’t started stamp collecting yet so the brace will have to do for now
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Old 07-19-2018, 01:41 PM   #72
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I'm with the SBR's are worth it crowd. Some shit you just cant put a brace on...

Funny, the mini could get a Tailhook mod 1 and look practically the same
The Draco can be braced also and if long enough keep the dong

Depends on the AK build, if its a "ar stock AK build" why not brace it too?
A accurate short AK clone? Naw, but psa coming with a triangle brace also so..
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:42 PM   #73
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:58 PM   #74
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Funny, the mini could get a Tailhook mod 1 and look practically the same
The Draco can be braced also and if long enough keep the dong

Depends on the AK build, if its a "ar stock AK build" why not brace it too?
A accurate short AK clone? Naw, but psa coming with a triangle brace also so..
But then it wouldn't be an AC556F clone.... And How you going to cut down a Mini 14 without a stamp to start with?
https://otbfirearms.com/ruger-ac556f-223rem-1/
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:01 PM   #75
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But then it wouldn't be an AC556F clone.... And How you going to cut down a Mini 14 without a stamp to start with?
https://otbfirearms.com/ruger-ac556f-223rem-1/

Chop and reweld
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:09 PM   #76
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Nothing beats the real deal

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Old 07-19-2018, 06:00 PM   #77
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^ Agreed
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Old 07-20-2018, 06:31 AM   #78
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Chop and reweld
I get what your saying, but I was going for a clone, not a close to a clone. Bad enough mines missing the happy switch!!

As far as the Draco-C, well that was an easy no brainer....
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:13 AM   #79
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Nothing beats the real deal
Amen
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:50 PM   #80
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^lol^
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:08 PM   #81
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That meme is old, just like the brace its referring to, and yes it was gay
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Old 07-20-2018, 01:32 PM   #82
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I believe the real question here for most people regarding pistol vs SBR is how often do you plan on traveling out of state WITH the gun.

Because otherwise its SBR all day, braces are just a half assing a project in all regards. You lose the ability to put a VFG, donkey dong grip, change stocks etc.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:53 PM   #83
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I believe the real question here for most people regarding pistol vs SBR is how often do you plan on traveling out of state WITH the gun.

Because otherwise its SBR all day, braces are just a half assing a project in all regards. You lose the ability to put a VFG, donkey dong grip, change stocks etc.
That really isn't the only concern, as some states regulate rifles in a different manner than pistols. It's possible for me to travel through 36 states with a braced 'pistol' in my possession at all times (100% legal) with my concealed carry permit. Long-gun / Shotgun regulations are very different, and the same rules and regulations don't apply.
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:03 PM   #84
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I believe the real question here for most people regarding pistol vs SBR is how often do you plan on traveling out of state WITH the gun.

Because otherwise its SBR all day, braces are just a half assing a project in all regards. You lose the ability to put a VFG, donkey dong grip, change stocks etc.
Over 26" and ghey VFG is a go
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Old 07-20-2018, 03:48 PM   #85
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Over 26" and ghey VFG is a go
Please tell us how you really feel

Not that most braces are in that category for me.... We all have our opinions
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Old 07-20-2018, 04:21 PM   #86
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I think everybody here is forgetting the real issue. There is no ATF approved bumbthingies for a pistol. They have said on more than one occasion than a bumpgrip on a pistol makes something that is designed to be fired with 2 hands, which is not a pistol and required a tax stamp.

I still think the biggest turnoff is that the approved braces and what you can do with them is subject to change at the whim of 1 man. All it takes is 1 atf goon to get a hair up their ass and suddenly pistol braces are out the window. You guys know how when some task is thought to be difficult or impossible, people will say "it takes an act of congress" to do it? It literally takes an act of congress to change the rules on SBRs. That shit is written into law.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:24 PM   #87
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I have it on my M92 I built from a kit and have a brace on M85NP PAP. It's whatever you can afford.
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Old 07-21-2018, 01:09 AM   #88
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I think everybody here is forgetting the real issue. There is no ATF approved bumbthingies for a pistol. They have said on more than one occasion than a bumpgrip on a pistol makes something that is designed to be fired with 2 hands, which is not a pistol and required a tax stamp.

I still think the biggest turnoff is that the approved braces and what you can do with them is subject to change at the whim of 1 man. All it takes is 1 atf goon to get a hair up their ass and suddenly pistol braces are out the window. You guys know how when some task is thought to be difficult or impossible, people will say "it takes an act of congress" to do it? It literally takes an act of congress to change the rules on SBRs. That shit is written into law.
Lol nah they cant just keep changing their minds over and over again. SBRs just ain't worth it. I see no value or real gain giving into unconstitutional bullshit. Doesn't even feel like its really yours after going through all that crap. Idk why anyone would want to voluntarily put themselves in a registry for looks.
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Old 07-21-2018, 06:19 AM   #89
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Lol nah they cant just keep changing their minds over and over again.
Says who? The ATF is free to keep re-evaluating their position as many times as they want. Go ask the freedom shoppe customers who bought braced pistols if 1 ATF goon changed the rules on them and confiscated their guns. Maybe if you just wish really hard the ATF won't keep changing the rules

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Old 07-21-2018, 06:57 AM   #90
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Lol nah they cant just keep changing their minds over and over again. SBRs just ain't worth it. I see no value or real gain giving into unconstitutional bullshit. Doesn't even feel like its really yours after going through all that crap. Idk why anyone would want to voluntarily put themselves in a registry for looks.
I have two SBRs, they both feel like they are mine, no one checks up on me, I don't have to share them. I don't know if your familiar with the Form 1 process, but they don't check shit as far as the serial number goes. They could care less about the history of the firearm... Some of us prefer to not have some flimsy rubber and velcro straps under our chins. I do have a braced PAP M92, and love it, but nothing compares to a real stock.
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Old 07-21-2018, 04:16 PM   #91
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I have done both. For the legit look its worth it. However, I have a knock around home defense ar that has a shock wave on it and it works as well and I dont really care about it.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:53 AM   #92
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Says who? The ATF is free to keep re-evaluating their position as many times as they want. Go ask the freedom shoppe customers who bought braced pistols if 1 ATF goon changed the rules on them and confiscated their guns. Maybe if you just wish really hard the ATF won't keep changing the rules
They arenít going to change their minds a 3rd or 4th time nobody will follow those rules and when they initially did nobody followed them anyways lol. I personally donít care about the laws or rules so I wonít be wishing for anything.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:59 AM   #93
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I have two SBRs, they both feel like they are mine, no one checks up on me, I don't have to share them. I don't know if your familiar with the Form 1 process, but they don't check shit as far as the serial number goes. They could care less about the history of the firearm... Some of us prefer to not have some flimsy rubber and velcro straps under our chins. I do have a braced PAP M92, and love it, but nothing compares to a real stock.
Imo you give up to much freedom to own it, braces will continue to evolve and get the job done and some are certainly more comfortable than an underfolder/wire folding stock on something like a Draco. Iíll never understand anyoneís logic or rational for registering firearms, seeing as so many ppl are ok with doing that maybe we oughta just have a national registry for all firearms and universal background checks as well.
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Old 07-22-2018, 11:39 AM   #94
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Imo you give up to much freedom to own it, braces will continue to evolve and get the job done and some are certainly more comfortable than an underfolder/wire folding stock on something like a Draco. Iíll never understand anyoneís logic or rational for registering firearms, seeing as so many ppl are ok with doing that maybe we oughta just have a national registry for all firearms and universal background checks as well.
You buy a new gun from an FFL, who gets all that info?
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:39 PM   #95
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You buy a new gun from an FFL, who gets all that info?
Itís not the same though, after that gun leaves the store itís where abouts and configuration are unknown. You donít just give away, trade, or easily sell a registered SBR, you canít even move state to state without being approved to do so.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:56 PM   #96
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Itís not the same though, after that gun leaves the store itís where abouts and configuration are unknown. You donít just give away, trade, or easily sell a registered SBR, you canít even move state to state without being approved to do so.
No one is saying it's the same, but the process is not that bad. I waited 8 months, don't have feds knocking on my door keeping track of shit. If I move some day, I'll deal with that heap of shit when the day comes. You don't just get to chop down a Mini 14 like I did without a stamp, so I did what I had to do, to get what I wanted. I do enjoy my braced PAP too
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Old 07-22-2018, 07:03 PM   #97
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No one is saying it's the same, but the process is not that bad. I waited 8 months, don't have feds knocking on my door keeping track of shit. If I move some day, I'll deal with that heap of shit when the day comes. You don't just get to chop down a Mini 14 like I did without a stamp, so I did what I had to do, to get what I wanted. I do enjoy my braced PAP too
You could chop the mini14 receiver up, cut the barrel and reweld it tho.


Or just do it the right way like you did
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:02 PM   #98
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You could chop the mini14 receiver up, cut the barrel and reweld it tho.


Or just do it the right way like you did
I guess I didn't understand the last poster that told me that... hell no!! That's way out of my league! Sounds like a cluster fuck waiting to bite me in the ass, and a bunch of unnecessary work
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:06 PM   #99
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I guess I didn't understand the last poster that told me that... hell no!! That's way out of my league! Sounds like a cluster fuck waiting to bite me in the ass, and a bunch of unnecessary work
Iím just saying it IS possible, I wouldnít do it myself
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:27 PM   #100
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I’m just saying it IS possible, I wouldn’t do it myself
Is this where you get a form to be the manufacturer, and don't have to engrave or serialize until you sell it? I still don't get how this has anything to do with a brace, as the last poster who suggested a cut and weld said a brace would look just like the Ruger factory folder.... Right!!! LOL
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Old 07-23-2018, 08:46 AM   #101
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I’ve had my forms filled out since January.
And I’m still on the fence if I want to bend my ass over to convert this 107.

Hoosiers, does the cleo have to sign off here in the corn?
“Marion County”
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:35 AM   #102
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At the end of the day, a lot are still missing the big picture here.

CZ Scorpion EVO 3 'K' Conversion with a brace. I can carry this with a brace in 36 states with my concealed carry permit. Loaded, round in the chamber with a 50-rd drum if I choose so, and on my person. Legally, I'm 100% in the clear.

CZ Scorpion EVO 3 Carbine, I'm now subject to the variations of state laws for rifles and shotguns.

CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S2 SBR. Notify the ATF and request permission (form 5320.20) to legally leave the state with this firearm, and an additional form for every state that I plan on stopping in. Some states legally disallow the carry of an NFA weapon concealed. For example, North Carolina deems NFA items 'weapons of mass destruction', interpretation differs by state.
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Old 07-23-2018, 01:12 PM   #103
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At the end of the day, a lot are still missing the big picture here.
They sure are.
AR pistol with a brace - I can carry this with a brace in 36 states with my concealed carry permit. Loaded, round in the chamber with a 50-rd drum if I choose so, and on my person. Legally, I'm 100% in the clear.

File a form 1 and SBR that same pistol - I can now legally intentionally shoulder it and put a real big boy stock on it.

Take the stock off that sbr - It magically turns back into the same pistol it was before. I can still drive across state lines with it and loan it out to friends.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:17 PM   #104
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They sure are.
AR pistol with a brace - I can carry this with a brace in 36 states with my concealed carry permit. Loaded, round in the chamber with a 50-rd drum if I choose so, and on my person. Legally, I'm 100% in the clear.

File a form 1 and SBR that same pistol - I can now legally intentionally shoulder it and put a real big boy stock on it.

Take the stock off that sbr - It magically turns back into the same pistol it was before. I can still drive across state lines with it and loan it out to friends.
Bias here is ridiculous, SBR doesn't work for a simple and legal PDW across state lines. Once a firearm (pistol in this case, or lower receiver) is registered as an SBR with a Form 1; that firearm is no longer considered a pistol. Can't even remove the barrel from a registered SBR to get around this when traveling. I own NFA items, but the main argument for an SBR over a braced pistol seems invalid currently unless it's for authenticity; which I absolutely agree with.

There are no functional differences here, one is considered a pistol and can be carried anywhere handguns are allowed with a concealed carry permit. The other falls into a grey area and the owner may want to have a lawyer if being pulled over in a non-NFA compliant state.

Scorpion with tail-hook (brace);


Scorpion SBR (select fire as well);
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Old 07-23-2018, 03:48 PM   #105
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Bias here is ridiculous, SBR doesn't work for a simple and legal PDW across state lines. Once a firearm (pistol in this case, or lower receiver) is registered as an SBR with a Form 1; that firearm is no longer considered a pistol. Can't even remove the barrel from a registered SBR to get around this when traveling. I own NFA items, but the main argument for an SBR over a braced pistol seems invalid currently unless it's for authenticity; which I absolutely agree with.
ATF ruling 2011-4
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A firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel or barrels of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).

...snip...

Therefore, so long as a parts kit or collection of parts is not used to make a firearm regulated under the NFA (e.g., a short-barreled rifle or “any other weapon” as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(e)), no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or reassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).
That's right. If you SBR a Glock and put it in a Roni case, you can pull it out of the case and its a pistol again. Same goes with AR pistols. If it was originally a pistol, you can make it an NFA regulated rifle and then back to a normal pistol, and back to an SBR.

You can't get any more clear about it than that. "no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or reassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA". If you assemble your AR as a pistol, then its not an NFA item and you can treat it like a normal pistol.
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