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Old 07-23-2018, 04:32 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by giantpune View Post
ATF ruling 2011-4

That's right. If you SBR a Glock and put it in a Roni case, you can pull it out of the case and its a pistol again. Same goes with AR pistols. If it was originally a pistol, you can make it an NFA regulated rifle and then back to a normal pistol, and back to an SBR.

You can't get any more clear about it than that. "no NFA firearm is made when the same parts are assembled or reassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA". If you assemble your AR as a pistol, then its not an NFA item and you can treat it like a normal pistol.
I've already read that ruling prior to making those statements, thank you for including that. It's not really clear however, as how can they rule if I have a pistol, register it as a rifle, I can magically return it back to a non-registered pistol (using a brace). That doesn't make sense for a regulated item.

Here was the point above;
Q: If I remove the short barrel from my SBR or SBS, may I move the firearm across state lines without the submission of ATF Form 5320.20, Application to Transport or to Temporarily Export Certain Firearms?
If the registrant retains control over the parts required to assemble the SBR or SBS, the firearm is still be subject to all requirements of the NFA. ATF recommends contacting law enforcement officials in the destination state to ensure compliance with state and local law.

It's still an NFA item at the end of the day, and the serial number has been registered and associated with that item. Legally, we couldn't put the true stock back on the firearm (recreating the SBR) without contacting the ATF and requesting permission out of state well in advance (5320.20). We couldn't even have the items in our possession to do so, even if we had no intention to, that's illegal. That is the issue here, at the end of the day the ATF has never been black and white on this regulation.

With a brace, there is no interpretation. It's a pistol. No paperwork, carry anywhere that handguns are allowed. LEO may dislike it, but it's going to be impossible to question the legality; especially if factory configured with a brace.

Not saying anyone would get prosecuted, the grey area is overwhelming with these regulations however. If the owner decides to file paperwork to be in the clear, then they must provide reasons for carrying and verify if they are in compliance with local state laws regarding rifles & NFA items.
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:18 PM   #107
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The downside of most of the older braces was the weight of them, and that's what turned me off of them. The original sig brace was a pound and a half heavier than an M4 stock. I'm sure some of the newer ones are much lighter and don't rotate or slide around or feel weird, but they also cost a lot more.

Rather just pin the flash hider or whatever to keep it a rifle, or pay the NFA tax and be done. Already have to be on the registry for my silencers, so being on there for a few SBR's doesn't really matter to me. My bigger concern with the registry has always been data breaches that make my home a public target, not government seizures.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:37 AM   #108
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https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/sba3/
6.75 oz.

It's actually lighter than a majority of standard AR-15 stocks.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/AR...uide/4-545368/
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:32 PM   #109
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I am sure those breaking into my house and/ or threatening me or mine wont care about my arm brace touching my shoulder nor will they testify that it did. I don’t plan on sporting about in public in any way, or at the run and shoot ranges, so sbr is not worth it to me. If it is to you, i support you.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:12 PM   #110
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16 inches is about as short as I want a rifle barrel to be simply because of the ballistic penalty of a shorter barrel .
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:33 PM   #111
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I think that's the first time I've heard that phrase before.

The ballistic penalty is not the same for all calibers. Some work fine with barrels less than 16 inches.

Just a lot of people don't want to deal with the wallet penalty to have one shorter than that.
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:44 PM   #112
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I think that's the first time I've heard that phrase before.

The ballistic penalty is not the same for all calibers. Some work fine with barrels less than 16 inches.

Just a lot of people don't want to deal with the wallet penalty to have one shorter than that.
Sometimes the wallet penalty is higher to brace a gun than to SBR it...
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Old 07-25-2018, 05:52 PM   #113
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.300blk, 9" barrel. Penetrating LVL II armor. This is an excellent candidate for a pistol/sbr.

5.56/.223 typically takes a reliability hit under 11.5".
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/-/138-174764/?

Even my 11.5" Colt Socom barreled BCM upper with a Rugged Surge suppressor is borderline not hearing safe outdoors. Don't even think about running it indoors without ear-pro.

That's why it's nice to SBR/Brace a firearm that suppresses well (short barrel & 1,000 +/- fps velocity). 9mm / .300 blk / .45 ACP for PDW use.
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Old 07-25-2018, 06:28 PM   #114
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I couldn't be happier
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:04 PM   #115
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I couldn't be happier
Very nice!

It would ve even nicer with a stock.
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Old 07-25-2018, 10:03 PM   #116
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Is it worth it to do a SBR? Any thoughts or opinions would be great.
I did the paperwork for my imitation Magal.

It's not the $200 as much as the wait that's the hassle.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:29 PM   #117
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For those that aren't willing to go the form 1 SBR route because it's an infringement, what you fail to understand is you're not sticking it to the man by slapping a brace on a pistol and shouldering it. You're still complying with the law. If you were really sticking it to them you'd have SBR's with no tax stamp.

If I could legally carry my SBR in a backpack loaded in my vehicle I wouldn't have a use for a pistol brace.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:47 PM   #118
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Oh, we understand


Both have a place
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Old 07-26-2018, 03:54 PM   #119
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For those that aren't willing to go the form 1 SBR route because it's an infringement, what you fail to understand is you're not sticking it to the man by slapping a brace on a pistol and shouldering it. You're still complying with the law. If you were really sticking it to them you'd have SBR's with no tax stamp.

If I could legally carry my SBR in a backpack loaded in my vehicle I wouldn't have a use for a pistol brace.
You can in Michigan if under 26" folded
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Old 07-26-2018, 04:49 PM   #120
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Oh, we understand


Both have a place
Yeah, that's why I have both.

Quote:
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You can in Michigan if under 26" folded
I don't live in Michigan so that's irrelevant to me.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:24 PM   #121
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Yeah, that's why I have both.



I don't live in Michigan so that's irrelevant to me.
Yeah, I was rust rubbing it in brother Dumb law we have to register rifles as pistols if they fold and fire and measure less then 26" But with one sweet spot!
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:13 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by virgil cole View Post
16 inches is about as short as I want a rifle barrel to be simply because of the ballistic penalty of a shorter barrel .
this concern boggles my mind. Are you really going to rely on a SBR to protect your family or fight ISIS through cinderblock walls? What does a slight drop in FPS matter? 99.9% of ALL SBRS are range toys, pure and simple.
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Old 07-27-2018, 04:55 PM   #123
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99.9% of ALL SBRS are range toys, pure and simple.
Because police departments and military are allowed to have machineguns. They don't have any restriction on barrel length. The SBRs are just for us peons.
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:02 PM   #124
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Because police departments and military are allowed to have machineguns. They don't have any restriction on barrel length. The SBRs are just for us peons.
Agreed
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Old 07-27-2018, 07:02 PM   #125
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Well I’m definitely going to SBR some builds. I have my trust set up.
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Old 07-28-2018, 06:53 AM   #126
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Well I’m definitely going to SBR some builds. I have my trust set up.
You won't be sorry brother, totally worth the wait! Find yourself a good local engraver in the downtime, do what you can on your builds.
This is who engraved my receivers, excellent work!!
https://www.veritasmachiningllc.com/
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:07 AM   #127
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You won't be sorry brother, totally worth the wait! Find yourself a good local engraver in the downtime, do what you can on your builds.
This is who engraved my receivers, excellent work!!
https://www.veritasmachiningllc.com/
I got a good lead on a local laser engraver.
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Old 07-29-2018, 07:53 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by lxpony View Post
this concern boggles my mind. Are you really going to rely on a SBR to protect your family or fight ISIS through cinderblock walls? What does a slight drop in FPS matter? 99.9% of ALL SBRS are range toys, pure and simple.
The average person is not going to engage burglars or bandits over 100 yards out. In a enclosed building such as a house the SBR or braced equivalent is far more maneuverable than a rifle with a 16 to 20 inch barrel.

Now at longer distances 100+ yards the longer barrels are kings all day.
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Old 07-29-2018, 09:51 AM   #129
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I got a good lead on a local laser engraver.

I’ve had excellent work done by this guy in NE San Antonio:


https://graylaser.com
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