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Old 10-29-2017, 08:53 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by csspecs View Post
I would put the time line around 90-120 days.. I would like to set a new shop record but historically this is what we have been able to do.
We have a few factors that may greatly reduce total time, but since we have never used them before I have no data on how that will change things..

Here is a breakdown of the timeline:

Mark says he is confident that machining of tooling will start Tuesday and that it will be complete in two weeks..

The tooling will then go to heat treatment for a week or so to be hardened for production.

Then we will have a week of dialing in the sheet metal sizes and making the tooling jigs and fixtures. And building whatever specialty welding hardware we need.

Once everything is set we have a finished prototype, and we will go and fire about 200+ rounds in the soft state to measure deforming, and also watching the feed on high speed camera. If everything looks good we will start the production run, testing can take between 1 hour and 1 week depending on the performance of the item.

Normally we would request a quote for laser cutting and wait a couple days, they would give us pricing then we would place the order which would take about 5-6 weeks for processing and 4-8 days for transit.... But we should have our own laser cutter installed and ready to go. So I don't know how that will change the timeline, in theory it will remove 6-8 weeks from the timeline.. The parts should be coming off the machine and start getting stamped immediately.

Normally we can complete the processing inside of 7-10 days depending how long we work each day.

Then the parts are dropped at heat treatment that can take between 1-4 weeks depending on how many batches of contract parts are in, they are averaging two weeks lately.. We don't produce enough goods to get a dedicated slot, so we get run when there is a slot open.

Once the parts are back from heat treatment they get scrubbed and washed, then they go into sizing tooling in the event slight distortion has happened. Parts are inspected using gauges, assembled, function inspected, inspected for finish, then packaged and wrapped in paper.. This normally takes 5 days.
Hey, Thank you for making products. They are awesome and I will buy them. I know I will get at least 5 of them at first. I know some people are little impatient. And they don't mean anything by that.
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Old 10-29-2017, 09:26 PM   #247
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I have talked to them on phone and they said that they bought tooling before the ban, so they have to make to at least make up the money for investment. Plus anything they said they do, they done. They have great reputation and I trust them. Plus they products are great workmanship
I'm certain that you are correct. And may have misunderstood my own point. I'm perfectly capable and can make or modify most anything that needs to made to work. I'm not the only one that is building a 6.5 Ak atm. The key thing holding us back is a mag supply. I been modding tapco's cause they are easy enough to get them to work though slightly limited in capacity. To me 2 less rounds in a mag ain't that big a deal. If I didn't do the job with the 28, then 2 more ain't gonna help.

You'll notice that 6.5 AR mags all hold odd numbers of rounds. I expect the Ak's to be the same as well.

I also think the timeline is a tad to optimistic. 30 to 60 days beyond the estimate is closer to what I'd think. That's simply my experience working in production. Others experience may be different.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:15 PM   #248
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I'm certain that you are correct. And may have misunderstood my own point. I'm perfectly capable and can make or modify most anything that needs to made to work. I'm not the only one that is building a 6.5 Ak atm. The key thing holding us back is a mag supply. I been modding tapco's cause they are easy enough to get them to work though slightly limited in capacity. To me 2 less rounds in a mag ain't that big a deal. If I didn't do the job with the 28, then 2 more ain't gonna help.

You'll notice that 6.5 AR mags all hold odd numbers of rounds. I expect the Ak's to be the same as well.

I also think the timeline is a tad to optimistic. 30 to 60 days beyond the estimate is closer to what I'd think. That's simply my experience working in production. Others experience may be different.
Well I don't want to sound like I am angry or anything either. It just I am just glad they opted to make magazines for this particular rifle. We have to understand, that this rifle is banned. What came in USA is what going to be the supply of this particular rifle. A lot of companies like SGM Tactical would just give up and not bother of making magazine for rifle that not going to be imported due to our moronic import laws or sanctions. So I am very appreciative of those guys taking on this project to say at least
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:34 PM   #249
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Thanks for the insight on what goes into these.

I think avaliable mags along with avaliable barrels will move things along as far as builders or even company's making or offering a 6.5 AKM.

The concern I have is if Russian 6.5 ammo gets sanctioned.

I'm going to get at least a case soon.

You should produce some barrel pressing tools for guys wanting to do a barrel swap and offer a discount with mag purchase.


If you ever get a mag with extra narrow lips that would center feed a .470" case like a 6mm br or other 308 win based round
Man I'd love to have one.
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Old 10-30-2017, 09:09 PM   #250
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Thanks for the insight on what goes into these.

I think avaliable mags along with avaliable barrels will move things along as far as builders or even company's making or offering a 6.5 AKM.

The concern I have is if Russian 6.5 ammo gets sanctioned.

I'm going to get at least a case soon.

You should produce some barrel pressing tools for guys wanting to do a barrel swap and offer a discount with mag purchase.


If you ever get a mag with extra narrow lips that would center feed a .470" case like a 6mm br or other 308 win based round
Man I'd love to have one.
if they ban ammo from Russia it would be all ammo, not just 6.5 Grendel, but it would piss off a lot of gun owners, because a lot people use steel cased ammo for plinking.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:03 PM   #251
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There was interest in the magazines and the gun before Russian steel cased ammo existed for these... So I'm not really worried.
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Old 10-30-2017, 10:19 PM   #252
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Great
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Old 10-31-2017, 12:16 AM   #253
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The market for these will likely be guys building followed by pro builders offering a 6.5 option .

Any one with a barrel less kit in 7.62x39 with the barrel in the market place and a mag can have 6.5

Russian ammo is about the same price so it's a attractive option.
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Old 10-31-2017, 03:41 AM   #254
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if they ban ammo from Russia it would be all ammo, not just 6.5 Grendel, but it would piss off a lot of gun owners, because a lot people use steel cased ammo for plinking.
There are a lot of 6.5 G AR owners that shoot the Wolf ammo as well, so even with Russian ammo sanctions, someone over there should have the smarts to fill the void.

Serbia is fielding the 6.5 G in their military, so hopefully they would be a source for cheap steel cased ammo, as well as surplus mags at some point. Hopefully, other former Com Bloc countries will follow suit with cheap steel cased 6.5G.

PPU was making 6.5G until recently, think they had problems with Les Baer blowing things up by shooting 6.5G in their .264 wildcat rifles...dumb fucks.

So there will be opportunities to fill the void if the Russia ammo sanctions come to pass.

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Old 10-31-2017, 08:58 AM   #255
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PPU was making 6.5G until recently, think they had problems with Les Baer blowing things up by shooting 6.5G in their .264 wildcat rifles
PPU recalled their 6.5Grendel ammo. They have not stated why and have not started offering it again. I seriously doubt they did this because someone was using it in a chamber that it was not intended for as they'd have zero liability. Something else was wrong and they just don't want us to know.
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Old 10-31-2017, 09:51 AM   #256
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The Russian 6.5 ammo we have been getting is coming from Barnaul last I checked.. So it should be good for the current round.. Odds are the next round or two will take it. but for now we are ok.
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Old 10-31-2017, 06:29 PM   #257
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I read an article other day that Army might be going 6.5 also due to foreign governments fitting their solders with ceramic plates and 556/223 will have hard time penetrating. If that does happen, domestic 6.5 might become cheaper, unless they go with creedmore instead.
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Old 10-31-2017, 07:42 PM   #258
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I don't know what will happen with russian sanctions but if any gets cut off it will mean other companies will have to deal with demand.
I'll get a case of wolf soon.
It's not likely to go down.

The round is at the edge in a AR pressure and thrust wise.
Don't know much about the recall but a half a grain can really affect things at the top in a small case like that and russian ammo is not exactly consistant.

I have seen a two grain spread in tearing down wolf 7.62x39 before and weighing componets and that was in 100 rounds of same lot ammo.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:06 PM   #259
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PPU recalled their 6.5Grendel ammo. They have not stated why and have not started offering it again. I seriously doubt they did this because someone was using it in a chamber that it was not intended for as they'd have zero liability. Something else was wrong and they just don't want us to know.


Well, I hadn't heard of any problems shooting PPU in 6.5 Grendel rifles, just in the .264 LBC chambering. PPU may just be prudently concerned with US litigiousness. You can be sued in this country for any thing, any time and for no legit reason at all.
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:08 AM   #260
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All true, but the fact that they didn't elaborate makes me think something else is up. Besides, if they were that worried about being sued, they probably wouldn't be in the business.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:33 AM   #261
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So... dumb question. Since it seems that Grendel will feed out of a 7.62x39 AK mag for about 5 rounds or so, and drums typically have only about 5 rounds in the tower, has anyone tried using a 75 round drum mag? If so, did it work?
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:56 AM   #262
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The Russian 6.5 ammo we have been getting is coming from Barnaul last I checked.. So it should be good for the current round.. Odds are the next round or two will take it. but for now we are ok.
Any more news on the 6.5 Grendel magazines?
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Old 11-16-2017, 10:16 AM   #263
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So... dumb question. Since it seems that Grendel will feed out of a 7.62x39 AK mag for about 5 rounds or so, and drums typically have only about 5 rounds in the tower, has anyone tried using a 75 round drum mag? If so, did it work?
This is a good thought.

Anyone with a drum and some 6.5g want to try?
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:40 PM   #264
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Any update on Csspec's 6.5 G mags?
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:15 AM   #265
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Any update on Csspec's 6.5 G mags?
Curious as well.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:28 AM   #266
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Just got our laser metal cutter in.. We have been waiting a few months for it.. Ran a whole batch of vepr 12 parts yesterday.. Normally it takes 6-9 weeks to get them in.

As for 6.5 grendel specify news not too much to report the tool grade steel came in that was backordered so once the mill is free we will be running.

We did have a delay as mark left to visit our sister out west.. But he is back and we should be making good time shortly..
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:28 PM   #267
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Great news, hoping that you can produce what we all hope you can.

Hope your brother had a good visit. We all need a good vacation.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:12 AM   #268
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Any update on Csspec's 6.5 G mags?
Vaporware at this point.
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:50 AM   #269
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Vaporware at this point.
Csspecs has an excellent reputation and line up of mags. This statement seems like a cheap shot to me. What contributions have you made to the gun industry? No need to mention part time keyboard commando, we can already see that.
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Old 01-24-2018, 01:26 PM   #270
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Csspecs has an excellent reputation and line up of mags. This statement seems like a cheap shot to me. What contributions have you made to the gun industry? No need to mention part time keyboard commando, we can already see that.
I wasn't critiquing their reputation or their current products. They do make good products. I think you completely misunderstood my post.

The statement wasn't a cheap shot, it was the truth. They were suppose to start making them in July from their June statement. That came and went. Then they said in October they were starting "very soon." That came and went. Last update on this from them was in December stating once they had things freed up, they would start running. Still nothing and it is the end of January.

My contributions to the gun industry is as a consumer. What does that have to do with anything? Until the product is unveiled and ready for sale, it is vaporware. Unless you are the type that is still waiting for your HMG STG-44 to arrive to you.

Perhaps you don't understand the definition of vaporware? Look it up online and tell me how this is not still vaporware? It is and that is the truth. But hopefully it doesn't stay that way and changes and actually ends up being available for sale.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:19 PM   #271
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Vaporware at this point.
Yup... Mark keeps giving me the run around.

Which is why I don't take prepayment.. Mark is a genius tooling maker but is something of a mad scientist and will randomly go off on unrelated projects... For what it is worth the 6.5 grendel is sitting on his desk.. For now I will say we are moving forward.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:25 PM   #272
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Well when you make it happen I'm in for a few mags.
I have the rifle and barrel laying here waiting.

I'm in no hurry. About 5000 projects to do besides this.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:42 PM   #273
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I'm in no hurry. About 5000 projects to do besides this.
Shhhhhhhhhhhh. Don't tell them that.
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Old 01-25-2018, 12:52 AM   #274
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Yup... Mark keeps giving me the run around.

Which is why I don't take prepayment.. Mark is a genius tooling maker but is something of a mad scientist and will randomly go off on unrelated projects... For what it is worth the 6.5 grendel is sitting on his desk.. For now I will say we are moving forward.
will be buying at least 5.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:21 AM   #275
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will be buying at least 5.
me too
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