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Old 05-13-2018, 09:26 PM   #1
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Default Interesting Video On CMP Range And Philippine Returned Garands

http://thegca.org/videos/

Good stuff on their new state of the art shooting facility in Talladega Alabama, a couple historic battlefield pick up Garands and in depth info on the import and condition of the Philippine Garands that finally have arrived after being delayed.
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Old 05-13-2018, 10:51 PM   #2
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Nice. Good stuff
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Old 05-13-2018, 11:59 PM   #3
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Nice video, damn nice.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 87K Garands......
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:23 AM   #4
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Awesome video, I need another Garand!
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:58 AM   #5
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Outstanding video, I know a AZNG Armorer who went to the Philippine's many years ago
with the mission of converting them to 7.62 Nato.
He has some interesting stories concerning that deployment.
Hopefully many of these rifles will end up in the hands of patriotic Americans who will
treasure them for history, past, present and future.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:59 AM   #6
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Dega baby!
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Old 05-14-2018, 01:47 PM   #7
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that Facility is NICE
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:01 PM   #8
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It's good to know that these Garands were not destroyed.

If only we had the same in the UK for the Lee Enfields, SLRs (FN FALs), Browning HPs and Webleys.

In fact they should offer them back to the British taxpayers for free.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:56 PM   #9
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I want to shoot on that 600yrd range
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:04 PM   #10
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How many Garands were converted to 7.62 NATO with just the chamber adaptor?
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Old 05-14-2018, 03:53 PM   #11
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They are great firearms. All time favorite but that poor Winchester, man!
I love mine. Does the CMP clean these up, furniture if needed?

Left to right ;
International Harvester, Springfield, Winchester (lead dip)







The IH is all original not a refit. Switched the Laminated furniture but have the original stored.
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ddnc View Post
They are great firearms. All time favorite but that poor Winchester, man!
I love mine. Does the CMP clean these up, furniture if needed?

Left to right ;
International Harvester, Springfield, Winchester (lead dip)







The IH is all original not a refit. Switched the Laminated furniture but have the original stored.
Very nice trio!

Yes they do work them over where necessary to return them to safe function, depending on what they are working with, replacing not only wood, but other parts as called for. In the past they have sold barreled actions as well.

Obviously if they are working with an all original gun, they will leave it and set it aside to be sold as such. The bulk of these rifles have been reworked at least once so not many "as issued" remain, but they do bring a premium and collectors will pay a premium for them untouched. That ex sniper in the video is s good example.

After being checked over, and repaired if called for, they are graded and put up for sale.

You can see their grading, prices and terms of sale here:

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/

Their aim these days it to get as much out of them as they can to finance other aspects of their mission, like the range shown, their youth shooting programs, etc.

One of the most despicable things Clinton did as president was to eliminate the DCM and force the creation of the CMP. It was likely the worst thing, of many, he did to shooters in this country. Most don't even know or understand what was lost.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:15 PM   #13
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all those poor old rifles! not treated very well for many years. still glad they're coming back.
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Old 05-14-2018, 11:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post

One of the most despicable things Clinton did as president was to eliminate the DCM and force the creation of the CMP. It was likely the worst thing, of many, he did to shooters in this country. Most don't even know or understand what was lost.
Pardon my ignorance, but could you explain about eliminating DCM and instating the CMP? First I have heard of the DCM.
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Old 05-15-2018, 12:35 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Richardmofo View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but could you explain about eliminating DCM and instating the CMP? First I have heard of the DCM.
This explains the technicalities of it better than I can:

Quote:
The Office of the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) was created by the U.S. Congress as part of the 1903 War Department Appropriations Act. The original purpose was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice marksmanship skills so they would be skilled marksmen if later called on to serve in the U.S. military. Formation was precipitated by adoption of the M1903 Springfield rifle as the national service arm. Civilians experienced with popular contemporary lever-action rifles were unable to sustain an equivalent rate of fire from the unfamiliar bolt action M1903 rifle.

Over the years the emphasis of the program shifted to focus on youth development through marksmanship. From 1916 until 1996 the CMP was administered by the U.S. Army. Title XVI of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1996 (Public Law 104-106, 10 February 1996) created the Corporation for the Promotion of Rifle Practice & Firearms Safety (CPRPFS) to take over administration and promotion of the CMP.[2] The CPRPFS is a tax-exempt non-profit 501(c)(3) corporation chartered by the U.S. Congress, but is not an agency of the U.S. government (Title 36, United States Code, Section 40701 et seq.). Apart from a donation of surplus .22 and .30 caliber rifles in the Army's inventory to the CMP, the CMP receives no federal funding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civili...anship_Program

So by way of explanation, The Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM)a department of the army was fully funded, and totally responsible for providing military surplus rifles to qualified civilians (anyone that could legally own a firearm), and establish organize and operate multiple shooting training programs/disciplines. This to promote marksmanship, familiarity, and safety with firearms, and thus social acceptance of ownership and proficiency with arms. In particular military arms.

Started as stated above in 1903, it all came crashing down after nearly a century, in 1996:

Under the first Marxist emperor, Clinton, and his heinous bitch, the idea that the government was providing arms and training to the populace was completely and totally unacceptable and they vied for total destruction of the program, but through the efforts of the usual advocates(conservative Congressmen, the NRA and Shooting Sports Foundation, etc.) a compromise was hatched that created the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), a non government, non profit that took over many of the DCM's activities.

The CMP, not funded in anyway other than by sale of said surplus rifles, soon found itself lifting the restriction on the number and frequency they could be purchased, taking the function of the operation from one of providing as many citizens as possible with an affordable rifle and ready training, to one of revenue generation for the survival of the organization.

"Collectors" and resellers jumped into the band wagon, and whereas once upon a time, you were basically limited to one rifle a year and no reselling, and had to prove participation in marksmanship tournaments(most notably NRA Highpower) and training, you could now buy virtually as many as you wanted. The result was a substantial increase in prices and a substantial down draw on the number of Garands available in the program, shortening by decades the time period that they would be available to the public. Which meant that fewer people were/are able to obtain them, actually working against the original purpose of the creation of the DCM.

So in essence the Clintons won, and the mission of the DCM was destroyed, forever altering the social landscape of the United States.

And that's what they wanted, a massive paradigm shift in the social fabric of the country, to a more non shooter friendly, anti gun psyche.

There were of course other things they did at around the same time, that amplified the social effect, such as forbid the government to sell any surplus weapons to the public (ie. police/agency handguns) as had been the practice since the country was born. Now any federal agency must sell it retired or surplus handguns rifles etc overseas or destroy them. Then there was the Brady Bill and of course the AWB. Not to mention the destruction of thousands of surplus M-14 rifles in whole(not just receivers).

Sorry to get long winded and opinionated here, but it is the one of the many fronts of attack by the left on the country, that pisses me off the most.

It also irritates me that so little can be found on the DCM on line, and the way in which the NRA led in its founding, and was intertwined in the training and sales programs. You have to remember that the NRA was started by people of the same mind (those who wanted a properly trained and armed populace, ie well regulated militia) as those that created the DCM.

Quote:
The NRA organized rifle clubs in other states, and many state National Guard organizations sought NRA advice to improve members' marksmanship. Wingate's markmanship manual evolved into the United States Army marksmanship instruction program.[21] Former President Ulysses S. Grant served as the NRA's eighth president and General Philip H. Sheridan as its ninth.[27] The US Congress created the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice in 1901 to include representatives from the NRA, National Guard, and United States military services. A program of annual rifle and pistol competitions was authorized, and included a national match open to military and civilian shooters. In 1903, Congress authorized the Civilian Marksmanship Program, which was designed to train civilians who might later be called to serve in the US military.[28] In 1907, NRA headquarters moved to Washington, DC to facilitate the organization's advocacy efforts.[21] Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal began the manufacture of M1903 Springfield rifles for civilian members of the NRA in 1910.[29] The Director of Civilian Marksmanship began manufacture of M1911 pistols for NRA members in August 1912.[30] Until 1927, the United States Department of War provided free ammunition and targets to civilian rifle clubs with a minimum membership of ten United States citizens at least 16 years of age.[31]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...le_Association

Please do not construe anything I have said here to mean that I am in anyway anti CMP. They do a great job. are bringing more youth into the shooting sports, and are doing their very best to carry on a proud tradition.
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"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU

Last edited by Sigiloso; 05-15-2018 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 05-15-2018, 09:03 PM   #16
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Found this too:

https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/...-on-cmp-racks/

Apparently there were about 13,000 Garands repatriated from Turkey as well that are hitting the shelves already.

Also rumors there may be up to 600,000 M1 carbines in South Korea eligible for return.
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"As director of the American Civil Liberties Union, I am for Socialism, disarmament and ultimately for abolishing the State itself...we seek the social ownership of property...and the sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal." -1935, Roger Baldwin, Founder ACLU
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:56 AM   #17
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I purchased a M1 Special in -06 back in 2014 when they were still available. Absolutely pristine rebuild done by the CMP. You can't get more quality for $1040 than a Special from the CMP. As I understand there's some politics going on with the Korean "lease" M1's , in short, we want them back, and Korea is saying "pay us some money and we will send them back". Feel free to post more specific details if I have this wrong.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:08 AM   #18
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The CMP has been working through the approx 13,000 Turkish returns for the past few months. These are thought to from the Turkish Navy or Air Force. The Service Grade that I got last month is most likely one of these. There are still many thousands of M1’s in Turkey that may be coming home one day from the Turkish Army. The 86,000 Philippine M1’s are not in in the CMP sales pipeline yet but soon should be. Korea has several 100,000 M1 Carbines and M1 Garands, but one problem there is that they seem to think that they own them rather then remember that we loaned them to them. Back during the Obama years there was a deal with Century to buy them and import them. The deal was pretty much done when Barack Husain nixed it by excecutive order.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:13 PM   #19
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Is there a provision in your gun laws to allow guns which were originally US made to be imported more easily?

I have seen what looked to be brand new Military issue Colt 1911s demilled in the UK, it's a shame those couldn't have been re-imported.
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by StrikeBeam View Post
Is there a provision in your gun laws to allow guns which were originally US made to be imported more easily?

I have seen what looked to be brand new Military issue Colt 1911s demilled in the UK, it's a shame those couldn't have been re-imported.
In the simplest terms:

The guns that CMP gets are from the army, who gets first right of refusal from countries with "Lend Lease" (WWII) or "Military Assistance"(Cold War) guns that were lent to countries to fight the AXIS and later communists.

These guns are still considered property of the U.S and are just on loan. The CMP picks up the tab for them being returned and then sells them to support shooting programs and marksmanship in the U.S.

Greece, Denmark, Turkey, South Korea among others have returned these weapons.

As far as others, it largely depends on the myriad of firearms laws in the U.S. and world wide, and it tends to change here depending on whose in charge in DC at any given time. We went from no military imports after the GCA of 1968, to almost unlimited after the FOPA and Curio and Relic provision under conservative government, then swinging back to limitations based on selective sanctions imposed by mostly leftists.

It was made difficult under Obama to import arms, but I see that changing, and maybe more drastically if President Trump is reelected for a second term.

A lot of the changes since President Trump was elected have so far been going on "behind the scenes", changes in agency personnel, attitude, rules and regulations and their interpretations at the State Department, Customs, ATF, etc., to keep it under the radar from the left leaning drones If he gets a second term with less worries about a political future I can see things accelerating more openly.

The 1911's you cite could have been outright purchased by the UK during or before WWII, or could have been brought in from other countries in private transactions,
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:31 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post
This explains the technicalities of it better than I can:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civili...anship_Program

So by way of explanation, The Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM)a department of the army was fully funded, and totally responsible for providing military surplus rifles to qualified civilians (anyone that could legally own a firearm), and establish organize and operate multiple shooting training programs/disciplines. This to promote marksmanship, familiarity, and safety with firearms, and thus social acceptance of ownership and proficiency with arms. In particular military arms.

Started as stated above in 1903, it all came crashing down after nearly a century, in 1996:

Under the first Marxist emperor, Clinton, and his heinous bitch, the idea that the government was providing arms and training to the populace was completely and totally unacceptable and they vied for total destruction of the program, but through the efforts of the usual advocates(conservative Congressmen, the NRA and Shooting Sports Foundation, etc.) a compromise was hatched that created the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP), a non government, non profit that took over many of the DCM's activities.

The CMP, not funded in anyway other than by sale of said surplus rifles, soon found itself lifting the restriction on the number and frequency they could be purchased, taking the function of the operation from one of providing as many citizens as possible with an affordable rifle and ready training, to one of revenue generation for the survival of the organization.

"Collectors" and resellers jumped into the band wagon, and whereas once upon a time, you were basically limited to one rifle a year and no reselling, and had to prove participation in marksmanship tournaments(most notably NRA Highpower) and training, you could now buy virtually as many as you wanted. The result was a substantial increase in prices and a substantial down draw on the number of Garands available in the program, shortening by decades the time period that they would be available to the public. Which meant that fewer people were/are able to obtain them, actually working against the original purpose of the creation of the DCM.

So in essence the Clintons won, and the mission of the DCM was destroyed, forever altering the social landscape of the United States.

And that's what they wanted, a massive paradigm shift in the social fabric of the country, to a more non shooter friendly, anti gun psyche.

There were of course other things they did at around the same time, that amplified the social effect, such as forbid the government to sell any surplus weapons to the public (ie. police/agency handguns) as had been the practice since the country was born. Now any federal agency must sell it retired or surplus handguns rifles etc overseas or destroy them. Then there was the Brady Bill and of course the AWB. Not to mention the destruction of thousands of surplus M-14 rifles in whole(not just receivers).

Sorry to get long winded and opinionated here, but it is the one of the many fronts of attack by the left on the country, that pisses me off the most.

It also irritates me that so little can be found on the DCM on line, and the way in which the NRA led in its founding, and was intertwined in the training and sales programs. You have to remember that the NRA was started by people of the same mind (those who wanted a properly trained and armed populace, ie well regulated militia) as those that created the DCM.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...le_Association

Please do not construe anything I have said here to mean that I am in anyway anti CMP. They do a great job. are bringing more youth into the shooting sports, and are doing their very best to carry on a proud tradition.
Thanks Sig, I never even heard of the DCM. Iím also a younger adult, of 30 years.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post
In the simplest terms...
Thanks for the explanation.

I seem to remember the 1911s being marked as US Property.

I have read before that the US government ordered all of the lend-lease weapons the UK had to be destroyed after the war. It is said that most of them ended up dumped in the sea.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigiloso View Post
Also rumors there may be up to 600,000 M1 carbines in South Korea eligible for return.
Not rumor, buy they take the evil 15 and 30 round capacity mags and can be made into illegal MGs with the addition of parts, and the gov't knows.
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Old 05-19-2018, 09:49 AM   #24
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I'd still pay a couple hundred bucks for an m1 that's rusted shut just to hang on the wall
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Old 05-19-2018, 11:03 AM   #25
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I need another M1 Garand!! Love em!

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Old 05-19-2018, 02:13 PM   #26
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id like one battlefield pickup but fully functional.
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