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Old 12-16-2015, 01:45 PM   #71
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Is there any reasonable way to have some type of double stack that tapers to a single port resembling a Lahti or Bren mag like he said? ^^^
I believe this has already been covered. Too difficult or nearly impossible to engineer for reliable performance.
The only way I can see a double to single stack working, is with firearms modifications. Which I don't see being popular outside of the handful of people.
Here is a person that has done the modification on the Vepr forum.
http://vepr.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4741

Opening the magazine well and then modifying the receiver is not for the faint of heart. I doubt many gunsmiths would be willing to do the job.

The average customer wants to open the package and use the product.. I get enough complaining for a little filing, there is no way in hell I'm selling magazine that requires major gun alterations.
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Old 12-16-2015, 07:59 PM   #72
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^^ I concur. Please keep up with what you have going on csspecs! We are cheering on!
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Old 12-16-2015, 08:58 PM   #73
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Hallelujah...I knew my praying would pay off.

Hell no I ain't modifying rifle for a doublestack.
Just give me reliable mag with as many rounds that works.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:05 AM   #74
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Enlarging the magwell cutout on a Vepr receiver isn't what the public wants but I applaud the efforts the Vepr forum fellow tried. His custom mags may work but I doubt his stock mags work now.
Double stack not needed at this time (but don't give up on the thought).
This thread has gone quiet this week but count me in on any CSS size mags and /or drums.
Be glad to volunteer to do the Arctic cold testing on them.
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:48 AM   #75
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I would buy a 5's or 10's no problem. I would prefer 10's but we simply don't have any other option aside from the "other" brand. Already busted the back out of a few using commercial Tula. Its not over 150 grain but I notice it does have a little more zip to it then Russian surplus and bulgarian. Its quite noticeable. I think when the bolt travels rear it must tag the cartridge on case or rim and smash it back into the rear of the magazine. Factory 5's no problem aside from they are no extra. I really like MY VEPR x54r but lack of mags is the biggest peeve I have.
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Old 12-24-2015, 11:24 AM   #76
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Haven't had any issues with the SGM 10 rounders besides not being able to insert the mag after the gun gets real hot. I have quite a few of them and fire them rapidly every range visit. I am not looking forward to paying more than $40 anymore for VEPR mags.
Can't understand why it is so difficult to figure out how to get 15-20 54r rounds to feed from a box mag. With the engineering skills we possess here in the US it should be an easy accomplishment. We can figure out how to make nukes explode over communist states but can't make a reliable AK or even the mags for them. Not downing the work that CSSPECS is putting into this quite the contrary and rooting them on. I guess I just don't understand the challenges they face.
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Old 12-24-2015, 11:35 AM   #77
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It's about funding. Allocating R&D to a product that may not come through in the end. And well it sure isn't an easy mag to make either
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Old 12-24-2015, 12:45 PM   #78
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It's not that it can't be done, it's about being able to do it for a reasonable price. The DOD can afford to pay a $1000 for a custom screw but the average vepr owner isn't going to pay much more than the price of a standard mag.
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Old 12-24-2015, 01:22 PM   #79
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Haven't had any issues with the SGM 10 rounders besides not being able to insert the mag after the gun gets real hot. I have quite a few of them and fire them rapidly every range visit. I am not looking forward to paying more than $40 anymore for VEPR mags.
Can't understand why it is so difficult to figure out how to get 15-20 54r rounds to feed from a box mag. With the engineering skills we possess here in the US it should be an easy accomplishment. We can figure out how to make nukes explode over communist states but can't make a reliable AK or even the mags for them. Not downing the work that CSSPECS is putting into this quite the contrary and rooting them on. I guess I just don't understand the challenges they face.
Our govt, who makes those nukes, aint building box mags for 1/2 century old russian milsurp rounds. Its small companies like ccspecs who do and they are working on paper thin margins cause of long lead times and their customers are the cheapest assholes in the gun world.

I mean, cmon, here you are bitching about price point AND dissing ccspecs' engineering capabilities and then you have the gall to say your not "downing" them? Do you think about what you type before you type it? Do you know how disheartening it is for a small company like ccspecs to log on here and see post after post bitching about price point? Ccspecs does what it does not to get rich, cause they wont, they do it cause they love the ak and want to make an honest living filling much needed gaps for our small community of shooters.

54r is a 19th century rimfire round. It sucks for semi auto, much less box fed SA. Why do you think 30-06 replaced the older 30-30 for our military rifles? The rimless cartridge's magazine fed SA performance is why. Rimfire rounds like 30-30 and 54r are not meant for box magazine semi auto rifles. The only reason 54r didnt see the same demise as 30-30 is the russians had a shitload of it after WW1 and were too frugal to simply render it all obsolete, so they designed the Tigr to work with it.
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:10 PM   #80
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^^ +1
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:13 PM   #81
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Haven't had any issues with the SGM 10 rounders besides not being able to insert the mag after the gun gets real hot. I have quite a few of them and fire them rapidly every range visit. I am not looking forward to paying more than $40 anymore for VEPR mags.
Can't understand why it is so difficult to figure out how to get 15-20 54r rounds to feed from a box mag. With the engineering skills we possess here in the US it should be an easy accomplishment. We can figure out how to make nukes explode over communist states but can't make a reliable AK or even the mags for them. Not downing the work that CSSPECS is putting into this quite the contrary and rooting them on. I guess I just don't understand the challenges they face.
I half fill them and take them out of a hot gun. They are just too frail.

I wonder if SGM will drop prices. But I think CSSPECS have a good base following.

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Old 12-24-2015, 02:21 PM   #82
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15 round magazine that works good will make me go on a 54r buying spree.
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Old 12-24-2015, 02:24 PM   #83
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Well I can understand trying to choose which magazine and having the ability to produce it while weighing the market could be a chore. I am glad for CSSPECS and as long as VEPR x54r are being imported I think it would be worth their while to produce them. I would have been more apprehensive a year ago. I think I understand why they went ahead with the M77 and think the VEPR x54r will yield as much if not better profits. Especially since everyone loves the VEPR. Have 3 more M77 mags to order and I will be satisfied and ready for the VEPR. I am at a serious handicap with mags for that thing.
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Old 12-24-2015, 03:41 PM   #84
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Very excited to see this - nice job CSSPECS!!
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Old 12-24-2015, 06:20 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Striknine View Post
Haven't had any issues with the SGM 10 rounders besides not being able to insert the mag after the gun gets real hot. I have quite a few of them and fire them rapidly every range visit. I am not looking forward to paying more than $40 anymore for VEPR mags.
Can't understand why it is so difficult to figure out how to get 15-20 54r rounds to feed from a box mag. With the engineering skills we possess here in the US it should be an easy accomplishment. We can figure out how to make nukes explode over communist states but can't make a reliable AK or even the mags for them. Not downing the work that CSSPECS is putting into this quite the contrary and rooting them on. I guess I just don't understand the challenges they face.
There is actually an engineering issue with trying to make anything past about 15 rounds single stack with a rim. My brother wants to explain it in a video so everyone understands what is and is not possible.
I'm sure with an infinite R&D budget it is solvable, as other have stated we do not have a budget large enough to solve that issue. So we would rather produce something now and dream about other solutions down the road.




Now for a little progress report, we have half the tool steel in the shop and blocked down to be milled, the other chunk of tool steel is being shipped in from Michigan, it was an odd thickness so it was out of stock locally. The mill tooling showed up about an hour ago, so we should be cutting either Saturday or Sunday. I intend to post videos of the tooling being milled, they take 8+ hours to mill so it will be little segments.


We have been stripping out an industrial building that we are going to use for more advanced progressive tooling, it is long enough to handle an uncoiler and several presses in a line.. I'll post pictures in a few months when there is more to see than a long empty industrial building. The product that we intend to run in the new building are internal magazine parts for AK-47s and AK-74s, higher volume with a goal of being cheap enough for people to bulk buy.
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:34 AM   #86
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There is actually an engineering issue with trying to make anything past about 15 rounds single stack with a rim. My brother wants to explain it in a video so everyone understands what is and is not possible.
I'm sure with an infinite R&D budget it is solvable, as other have stated we do not have a budget large enough to solve that issue. So we would rather produce something now and dream about other solutions down the road.




Now for a little progress report, we have half the tool steel in the shop and blocked down to be milled, the other chunk of tool steel is being shipped in from Michigan, it was an odd thickness so it was out of stock locally. The mill tooling showed up about an hour ago, so we should be cutting either Saturday or Sunday. I intend to post videos of the tooling being milled, they take 8+ hours to mill so it will be little segments.


We have been stripping out an industrial building that we are going to use for more advanced progressive tooling, it is long enough to handle an uncoiler and several presses in a line.. I'll post pictures in a few months when there is more to see than a long empty industrial building. The product that we intend to run in the new building are internal magazine parts for AK-47s and AK-74s, higher volume with a goal of being cheap enough for people to bulk buy.
Great news there.
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:23 PM   #87
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I think the best all around mag is going to be around 8 or 10 rds, not too long, decent capacity and divides up 440 tin nicely. If reliable function is any kind of issue over 10 round capacity, I would not waste too much time or money on it. 5, 8, or 10 will steel be far better than what we have now.
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:54 PM   #88
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15 rounders for me. I would like a 10 round also, but my rifle is not set up in a long range type configuration so I prefer more capacity.

15 is a great number since anything higher seems to problematic to design.
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:56 PM   #89
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Whatever gets out the fastest. Whatever you make is gonna sell. Everyone is going to whine and complain about what exactly they want. They're going to buy whatever mag you make anyways because it is the only foreseeable reliable option.

There's no need for you to explain for the 900th time why a double to single stack mag won't work well for a rimmed round.
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Old 12-25-2015, 09:39 PM   #90
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54R and 30-30 are rimmed rounds, but they aren't rimfire rounds. Big, big difference!

Just sayin....
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Old 12-26-2015, 05:21 PM   #91
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Whatever gets out the fastest. Whatever you make is gonna sell. Everyone is going to whine and complain about what exactly they want. They're going to buy whatever mag you make anyways because it is the only foreseeable reliable option.

There's no need for you to explain for the 900th time why a double to single stack mag won't work well for a rimmed round.
Actually if nothing higher then a 10 rounds developed I will be disappointed. SGM already makes one, and their previous tease of higher capacity mags has left me (and I assume others) hungry for tid kind of option. 10 and under just makes the rifle feel like a bench rest rifle and I don't want mine for that.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:00 PM   #92
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10 and 15's. Ban states will open up more of a market witht the tens, and the 15's for other states
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:18 PM   #93
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How about just some steel 5 and 10 round mags? Or a 20-30 round drum would be nice if not too gaudy. Kind of hard to shoot prone and from a bench with a mag the size of a 30 round x39 mag hanging down.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:25 PM   #94
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Default 54r mags

I think 15 round mag would be perfect for this huge round and more likely doable. If you crybaby and want bigger magazine, then design and produce it yourself. CSSPECS, thanks for taking this project on.





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Old 12-27-2015, 04:53 PM   #95
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I would buy the HELL out of 10 and 15 round mags!!
Thanks for getting them there!! Never lost faith in you guys CSS specs!
I think you will be surprised at how many you sell. There are a pretty good amount of VEPR x54s out there that want your mags BADLY.
Very very happy and cannot wait for these!!!!!
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Old 12-27-2015, 06:49 PM   #96
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Hell i'll probably buy one just to have it. I wonder if one could rig these up to work in nagants
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Old 12-27-2015, 07:20 PM   #97
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Triple your market; 10-15 round Vepr mag, with an optional adapter for the Mosin Nagant. Tons of Mosins around. Take a Mosin fixed mag, and make one that accepts Vepr mags so you can sawp between your rifles. I would guess many of the Vepr owners, like myself have a few dozen Mosin rifles, no? Well, I can dream can't I. Get some money back in R&D by opening up the market reach.
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Old 12-28-2015, 12:22 AM   #98
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Mark started milling parts today.. I think it is going to take several days to have enough for a few minute video update. We figure something like two weeks to get the main parts cut, I'm only recording little sections of half of the tooling, because the other half is just a mirrored version of the first half.

We are catching a 10 or 30 second section every couple hours when something different is being done. There is no point in recording hours of someone doing a repetitive job.




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Triple your market; 10-15 round Vepr mag, with an optional adapter for the Mosin Nagant. Tons of Mosins around. Take a Mosin fixed mag, and make one that accepts Vepr mags so you can sawp between your rifles. I would guess many of the Vepr owners, like myself have a few dozen Mosin rifles, no? Well, I can dream can't I. Get some money back in R&D by opening up the market reach.

We are looking into a fixed Mosin Nagant magazine. I'm not sure if they will be directly based off the Vepr magazine body, or if they will be their own design. The Mosin Nagant fixed magazine would require a trigger guard to weld to the magazine, this requires threaded holes and some milling. Tapping thousands of holes is expensive and slow, even with a CNC mill. I think thread milling will be the cheapest and best option. As for making the shape of the trigger guard, I think water jet cutting is the only viable option to get the rough shape. One of my suppliers sent me a flyer about 3d water jet cutting, so it may be possible to get a mostly finished shape and then finish with the mill.

I can tell you that a Mosin Nagant won't feed off a magazine with feed lips and a Vepr can't use one without. So they are basically completely incompatible.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:44 AM   #99
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Mark started milling parts today.. I think it is going to take several days to have enough for a few minute video update. We figure something like two weeks to get the main parts cut, I'm only recording little sections of half of the tooling, because the other half is just a mirrored version of the first half.

We are catching a 10 or 30 second section every couple hours when something different is being done. There is no point in recording hours of someone doing a repetitive job.







We are looking into a fixed Mosin Nagant magazine. I'm not sure if they will be directly based off the Vepr magazine body, or if they will be their own design. The Mosin Nagant fixed magazine would require a trigger guard to weld to the magazine, this requires threaded holes and some milling. Tapping thousands of holes is expensive and slow, even with a CNC mill. I think thread milling will be the cheapest and best option. As for making the shape of the trigger guard, I think water jet cutting is the only viable option to get the rough shape. One of my suppliers sent me a flyer about 3d water jet cutting, so it may be possible to get a mostly finished shape and then finish with the mill.

I can tell you that a Mosin Nagant won't feed off a magazine with feed lips and a Vepr can't use one without. So they are basically completely incompatible.
I like you more every day. Yeah, I know the Vepr mags won't work in a Mosin, since the Vepr has the mag lips retaining the rounds in the mag, while the Mosin uses the interrupter. Just hoping there was some work around, like an adapter if the interrupter was removed from the receiver or something. I have Csspec Vepr 308 mags, and Csspec M77 mags. Just anxiously anticipating good mags for my 54r is all.
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:46 PM   #100
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Default tired of whiners on 54r magazine

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The day I have to pay $50 for a magazine for this VEPR is the day I sell same rifle and use the $$ to buy ak47 and AR15 magazines and ammo/reloading components. Which is a shame I really like the VEPR and the 54R round (have 8 Mosins) and a good stockpile of 54R ammo. Past $40 is my sell the damn rifle threshold.
dude, then sell your 54r, really? You complaining about paying $50 for magazine? I know its little pricey, but you have to consider few things, money it takes to research and develop it. They can't copy SGM magazine and Russians not going to send blue print on making magazine for this rifle. So they have to design it and build it. They are not Magpul or other huge company with big R&D funds. They don't want to make magazine that requires lot of modification or gun mod. They also have to make money of this project, oh yea, they are not red cross, they want to be paid for the work and investment they put in. Now if you don't like it, sell your rifle. But consider this 54R is comparable to 308, your ar 308 rifle will cost you twice or 3 times as this rifle for quality one and magazines, not that cheap too. Actually my HK762 magazines are at least $80. As they make this magazine and when people start buying it, price will drop too. There not many 54r alternatives, saiga don't make one and they banned. Tigr, very expensive and rare to get, same as PSL rifles. So keep your ego in check and be patient
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:52 PM   #101
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Default CSSPECS, you doing great job

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The only way I can see a double to single stack working, is with firearms modifications. Which I don't see being popular outside of the handful of people.
Here is a person that has done the modification on the Vepr forum.
http://vepr.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=4741

Opening the magazine well and then modifying the receiver is not for the faint of heart. I doubt many gunsmiths would be willing to do the job.

The average customer wants to open the package and use the product.. I get enough complaining for a little filing, there is no way in hell I'm selling magazine that requires major gun alterations.
Don't worry about few whiners, its ak rifle that how they are. Even regular Ak-47/74 rifles sometimes you have to tweak them, because they built little bit different. If they don't want to file, they can pay gunsmith to do it for them. Or switch to AR rifles.
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Old 12-30-2015, 02:07 AM   #102
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10 rounder would be awesome
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Old 12-30-2015, 02:27 AM   #103
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patiently watching .......................................
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Old 12-31-2015, 05:28 AM   #104
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Old 01-04-2016, 01:51 PM   #105
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