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Old 11-25-2013, 11:16 PM   #1
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Default evolution of the svd dragunov. early prototype pictures

Found these on a russian website. At first i thought they where the competitive designs. But after a bit more research i found out they where early prototypes. Note the svd mag does not really change. It was said it took dragunov over a year to design it.

edit to add
okay so apparently the first 2 rifle where the competitive designs. like i first thought. kinda hard doing russian translation when all you have is google translate. the bottom rifle is still obviously a early svd . thank you george for the link with more info.









Anyway i thought it was pretty cool.

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Old 11-26-2013, 12:20 AM   #2
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Well I am glad he got it figured out because the end result is one of the sexiest rifles ever. Thanks for posting!
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:46 AM   #3
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Very interesting indeed. Haven't really seen the prototype stages before.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:53 AM   #4
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Cool!
Thanks for posting. I had never seen these pics before.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:01 AM   #5
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The Russians, for whatever reason, kept the offset scope. The rifle was originally supposed to feed from strippers like the SKS, but they ditched that idea (see the first pic with the open top side). Don't know why they kept that feature, but whatever their reasons, it still works.
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:23 AM   #6
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That is cool, thanks for sharing.
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:25 AM   #7
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Very cool!
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:50 AM   #8
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pretty sweet pics, it looks like the adjustable gas system was added even after the last image. also i wonder why they moved the sights so far back in that last image too, im glad they didnt keep it like that lol
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Old 11-26-2013, 06:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazmat97 View Post
The Russians, for whatever reason, kept the offset scope. The rifle was originally supposed to feed from strippers like the SKS, but they ditched that idea (see the first pic with the open top side). Don't know why they kept that feature, but whatever their reasons, it still works.
This feature from SVT rifle, that could be feed from Mosin strippers using the same 7,62x54 ammo. And this ammo sometimes we already packed loaded to strippers. For sniper (marksman) rifle this is bad idea, due to problems with place for scope in this way.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:03 AM   #10
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About prototypes:
Else early version:

20 rd mags (not mine )



Possibly they were planned for full auto SVU-AS



P.S. If interested, can show pictures of competetiv to SVD prototypes.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:59 AM   #11
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A year to design a mag ,I guess he had other projects.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEORGEspb View Post
About prototypes:
Else early version:

20 rd mags (not mine )



Possibly they were planned for full auto SVU-AS



P.S. If interested, can show pictures of competetiv to SVD prototypes.
I am sure people would be interested.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:11 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by psl sniper View Post
And finally what we recognize as the svd. Still a bit different, no flashhider, and the stock is a bit different. Also no bayo lug.



Anyway i thought it was pretty cool.
Just when i thought the svd couldnt get sexier i saw the pic of this..... that buttstock.....so are there any svd blueprints online??? fuck it i'm gunna quit my job and spend a year in my garage building one!!!

With the possable exception of the kentucky longrifle can anyone find me a sexier gun????
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:55 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toxicag View Post
pretty sweet pics, it looks like the adjustable gas system was added even after the last image. also i wonder why they moved the sights so far back in that last image too, im glad they didnt keep it like that lol
also it looks like a standard ak front sight.
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g5 View Post
I am sure people would be interested.
ОК.
You are a litlle mistaken. One of yours pictures is not Dragunov experimental. Yes mag the same, but this is Konstantinov rifle. Here are its photoes:



link to article (on russian) http://guns.arsenalnoe.ru/m/7365/sna..._obrazets.html

Real experemental Dragunov based rifle using 4,5mm arrow bullet (70-es)



Other Dragunov based experemental 5,45x39 rifle

Link to article http://oko-planet.su/politik/politik...-vintovki.html
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Old 11-26-2013, 12:47 PM   #16
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translated the text. using google translate. kinda looses a bit im sure.

This sniper rifle was developed AS Konstantinov KB "Plant them. Degtyarev" in Carpet. In 1959 was presented for the contest to create a new semi-automatic sniper rifle. Eventually conceded Dragunov sniper rifle (SVD).

Initially, the test, which took place in the winter and spring of 1960, was presented to the rifle, made on the basis of machine design Konstantinov. It was designed to use 7.62 mm h54 and use automation to the challenge of the powder gases through a hole in the barrel. Locking carried out by turning the gate that their projections mated with lugs on the receiver. The recoil spring is located in the butt, the butt was a continuation of the receiver. USM hammer type admitted keeping only a single lamp.

Sniper rifle Konstantinov presented at trial in 1960


Food ammunition made from detachable box magazine capacity of 10 rounds. On the left side of the receiver was mounting an optical sight, located on the right fuse box. Public sector sight was marked at a distance of up to 1200 m Butt, fire control and handle made of wood handguard. Weight of rifle was about 5.5 kg.

After the first comparative tests AS Konstantinov finalized his rifle, creating two fundamentally different sample. The first option was similar to the model presented earlier. Fire control handle with trigger guard have been combined into a single module and steel is made of plastic. Also plastic steel butt and fore-end. In the receiver box was equipped with a special emphasis to reduce the impact on the shooter recoil effects of moving parts, besides the butt design a new element - rubber recoil pad.

The second sample had a rifle Konstantinov "classical" scheme. Changed the butt design, the receiver and a number of other details. The recoil spring was moved to receiver, became the butt of a framework. In this model have also been widely used plastic.

Two variants of a sniper rifle Konstantinova submitted for the test winter 1961-1962 gg.


Testing process sniper rifles and Dragunov Konstantinova described in his book "Domestic machines ( note test - gunsmith ) " test engineer AA Malimon : "Two sniper rifles, coming up to the finish decisive milestone with almost the same state in constructive working out , head landfill , who had a special passion for this type of shooting weapon yet still landfill , he decided to check out the new rifle in the work .

The first sample - Dragunov rifle - shooting took place on convenience it without comment. Good results were shooting at targets. After shooting rifles Konstantinova General immediately gave it to the tester and, putting his hand palm to the right cheek, said sharply , "Do not go! "

AS rifle design feature Konstantinov was the butt of rectification , is a continuation of the stamped sheet steel receiver. As conceived by the designer , straightening butt was supposed to ensure the accuracy of shooting increase compared with the wooden butt classic curved shape. Shooting of this rifle felt cheek movement parts and their impacts at the end of the rollback , which causes pain in hand . It felt good and the general. Designer had to redo your pattern on the receiver and butt , which required changes and other indigenous relinking the entire design scheme rifles, and consequently time-consuming to bring the sample to the finished form . In fact, work began again. Redesigned rifle Konstantinova in concluding repeated field tests , of course, showed worse results than before the alteration, yielding sample Dragunov and the main characteristic - the accuracy of shooting . This facilitated the selection of the best sample. For adopting a polygon was recommended semi-automatic sniper rifle designs EF Dragunov .

Members of the commission makes the final decision , it was felt that further refinement rifle Konstantinova its characteristics can only catch up with the sample Dragunov . Getting a significant superiority is unlikely. "
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:13 PM   #17
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At the end of 50-s, beginig of 60-s real competitors for Dragonov were Konstantonov and Simonov (yes, SKS author)
Simonov experemental rifle:

Dragunov already have SSV-58


Rear sight - becouse first it were sporting rifle with ring sight and to have maximum length of sighting line.
Later version, early 60-s, stiil with rear sight.

80-e experemental with forward sight on gase tube and stamped lower reciever.

Link to artikle http://www.guns.yfa1.ru/svd-snajpers...sozdaniya.html
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Old 11-26-2013, 01:49 PM   #18
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Very interesting, but very rare Training Sniper Rifle TSV-1 also designed by Dragunov. Were made in very small amount . Selfloading, 22lr.

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Old 11-26-2013, 01:50 PM   #19
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so who designed the mag? ive always been told dragunov designed it but looking at all the pics it seems the same mag was used. any thoughts?
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:09 PM   #20
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Dragunov team designed it. Dragunov wrote that it takes neally year to do it. But, it also vere Konstantinov work. They were friends. That time were spend not only to design mag, but also made it easy to manufacture and reliable in use. Soviet military have experience with neally 2 million of SVT riflres. One of its drawbacks were problems with mags - not always good feeding, sensetive to side strikes and not cheap to manufacture. Based on it they wanted new designed mag, good on feeding rimmed (this is also a kind of problem for desing mag) 7,62x54 ammo.
Here is link to article from russian arms magazine about Dragunov. In it written that they cooperate in some things. Konstantinov give his mag design to Dragunov, Dragunov his barrel to Konstantinov. http://www.kalashnikov.ru/upload/med...62/006_010.pdf
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Old 11-26-2013, 02:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psl sniper View Post
cant see the pics. i see all your other ones, but not these.
Corrected. better?
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by GEORGEspb View Post
Corrected. better?
Much better very cool pics. Its kind of hard to picture 2 people competing for a weapon design, to share the magazine setup. .

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Old 11-26-2013, 11:09 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psl sniper View Post
Much better very cool pics. Its kind of hard to picture 2 people competing for a weapon design, to share the magazine setup. .
It were a little different from now time and different from current way of mind. They have one purpose - to do best weapon for native country. And they saw the main point - they did not competeting in small things (mag desing, barrel), competion were in design of main mech and its manufacturing tech.

By the way - Kalashnikow also took part in this program but did not sucseed from very begining. Its variants:

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Old 11-26-2013, 11:46 PM   #24
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Thank you. Very interesting.
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Old 11-26-2013, 11:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEORGEspb View Post
It were a little different from now time and different from current way of mind. They have one purpose - to do best weapon for native country. And they saw the main point - they did not competeting in small things (mag desing, barrel), competion were in design of main mech and its manufacturing tech.

By the way - Kalashnikow also took part in this program but did not sucseed from very begining. Its variants:

THose look like saigas. Lol.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:22 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by psl sniper View Post
THose look like saigas. Lol.
Yes, nothing is new .

Other SVD variant - SVDK. I did not know for what today russian miltary wanted it, may be for possible alien or walking robots hunting? Some series were manufactured. 9,2x64 ammo with armor piercing bullet...
I do not know why not .338 .

mags compare side by side - ordinary SVD and SVDK


Its hunting version Tigr-9


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Old 11-27-2013, 12:26 AM   #27
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Yes, nothing is new .

Other SVD variant - SVDK. I did not know for what today russian miltary whanted it, may be for possible alien or walking robots hunting? Some series were manufactured. 9,2x64 ammo with armor piercing bullet...
I do not know why not .338 .

mags compare side by side - ordinary SVD and SVDK
That's insane! They changed their oldest sniper cartridge. 54R will always be used!
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:48 AM   #28
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That's insane! They changed their oldest sniper cartridge. 54R will always be used!
Nothing changed. 54R still mass used. Just some small quontity of this light armor busting rifles for uncertan for me purposes were done.

For long range there are some using of bolt action SV-98 in same 7,62x54, but this is other story
Paratroopers got SVD-S with shorter barrel and folding stock, special forces for CQB - SVU in same 7,62x54
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:07 AM   #29
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Man seeing all these svds is making me ancy. I wish the post office hadnt screwed up my package with the money orders. Now i get to deal with that Mess.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:27 AM   #30
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I would love to get one of the Tigr-9 rifles for big game.

As for choosing the 9.3 Brenneke, This is just speculation, but the .338 is a bit longer and more powerful, and thus might have had a few more issues unless the receiver was more heavily modified and the rifle weighed more. The SVDK already comes in at 6.5kg (14 lbs.) to handle the 9.3 brenneke. A semi auto .338 might have to weigh a bit more, which kind of defeats the purpose of what the SVDK, if we can assume it was to supplement an infantry squad with a heavier hitting rifle.

The Russians also haven't seemed to be as concerned with very long distance, and a lot of their latest developments have been aimed at defeating body armor at more normal ranges, at least that seems to come up a lot when you hear about Russian arms development.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:36 PM   #31
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The Russians also haven't seemed to be as concerned with very long distance
Yes. For range from 500m till 2000m for our army it is more easy and effective to use 12,7 or 14,5 machine guns, 23 and 30mm auto canons and 82 and 120mm mortars.
Sniper rifles for such distansce - only for very good trained special forces.

To continue psl sniper agony - "looking like SVD", but different in mech and ammo experemental rifles SVK and SVK-S - using experemental 6x49 ammo. Mid 80-s. Some of tech decisions were used later on SVD-S and Tigers.







Link to article (russian)
http://weaponland.ru/load/snajperska...k_s/88-1-0-668
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:23 PM   #32
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If it is not against rules I can give link to .pdf album of today aftermarket custom modify of Russian/Soviet arms, including SVD and Tigers.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEORGEspb View Post
If it is not against rules I can give link to .pdf album of today aftermarket custom modify of Russian/Soviet arms, including SVD and Tigers.
Please do

We look forward to it.
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Old 03-30-2014, 05:56 PM   #34
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https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5wm...0ZCdGo1N3d4Z2s
can you see it?
sorry, text on russian
some pictures with my rifle I posted before in photo thread
Accorrding to SVD/Tigr
page 2-5 - adapter for M-type stock
page 6-7 - adapter for SVDS to put on it AK type grip
page 26-27 - high mount with 30MOA angle
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Old 03-30-2014, 08:34 PM   #35
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I see it. Thank you!
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