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Old 05-04-2012, 12:55 PM   #1
billyblooshoes
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Default Problems w/ Circle 21 Mags in my Tantal

so i recently got a few circle 21's for my tantal. it turns out that the fitment is not as great as the steel or polymer polish mags that came with the gun. they fit very snug, but the main problem is that the mag release is hard to manipulate to remove a few of them. additionally, one of the mags does not have such a positive "click" lock up, and it seems like the mag release is barely catching the tab on the mag to secure it. i can actually press the mag release rewards a little way to fully set it on the lip on the mag. the only thing i noticed thats different between the two tabs is that the polish polymer mag has a slight angle on the very tip of the tab, whereas the circle 21's is just flat. im thinking this may be the issue. is it worth trying to grind the tab on the circle 21's to a slight angle to try and correct this?

here are a few pics to illustrate:

polish:


circle 21:
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Old 05-04-2012, 01:02 PM   #2
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The problem is in the construction of the gun, not the mags.

1) The mag wells in Nodak Spud receivers are known to be "tight". A few light strokes of a file will alleviate this.

2) When installed, your mag catch probably wasn't installed as precisely as it should have been. Again, a couple light strokes of the file across the top of the rifle's mag catch (and then fit your mags) should alleviate this (it might take more than a couple of passes with the file).
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
The problem is in the construction of the gun, not the mags.

1) The mag wells in Nodak Spud receivers are known to be "tight". A few light strokes of a file will alleviate this.

2) When installed, your mag catch probably wasn't installed as precisely as it should have been. Again, a couple light strokes of the file across the top of the rifle's mag catch (and then fit your mags) should alleviate this (it might take more than a couple of passes with the file).
understood, especially with CAI, but my issue with that theory is that why would my steel mag and polymer polish mag work perfectly, but the circle 21's have issues with lockup etc. wouldnt that indicate an issue with the magazine?
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:08 PM   #4
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I'm gonna stick with the mag latch not being properly fitted at the factory.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:58 PM   #5
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just to specify, are you talking about taking the file to the edge, as in on an angle, or level and flat with the very top edge.
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Old 05-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nalioth View Post
The problem is in the construction of the gun, not the mags.

1) The mag wells in Nodak Spud receivers are known to be "tight". A few light strokes of a file will alleviate this.

2) When installed, your mag catch probably wasn't installed as precisely as it should have been. Again, a couple light strokes of the file across the top of the rifle's mag catch (and then fit your mags) should alleviate this (it might take more than a couple of passes with the file).
I have found this to be true on several US receivered rifles assembled by people not familiar with the mag catch/trigger guard plate assembly process and the precise geometry as practiced at the foreign Arsenals.



Quote:
Originally Posted by billyblooshoes View Post
understood, especially with CAI, but my issue with that theory is that why would my steel mag and polymer polish mag work perfectly, but the circle 21's have issues with lockup etc. wouldnt that indicate an issue with the magazine?
On my AK-74 builds the Polish Tantal steel and all Russian Phenolic and Polyamide fit without wobble and with a positive 'snap' of the latch.

This is because I built my rifle's mag catch plate with it's all important 'milling cut' around the 'nominal' specs for an AK-74 5.45x39 magazine. Most builders have no idea how important this small detail is to the functionality of their AK.

Russian, East German, and Polish Tantal steel magazines are usually perfectly in-spec. Bulgarian Arsenal 10 are next best and NITI Circle 21s and the OpticoElectron 25s have always felt a bit chubby ... possibly to allow wear on the magazine side plates and latch catch.

Know your rifle.


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Old 05-04-2012, 03:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfsburgBob View Post
I have found this to be true on several US receivered rifles assembled by people not familiar with the mag catch/trigger guard plate assembly process and the precise geometry as practiced at the foreign Arsenals.





On my AK-74 builds the Polish Tantal steel and all Russian Phenolic and Polyamide fit without wobble and with a positive 'snap' of the latch.

This is because I built my rifle's mag catch plate with it's all important 'milling cut' around the 'nominal' specs for an AK-74 5.45x39 magazine. Most builders have no idea how important this small detail is to the functionality of their AK.

Russian, East German, and Polish Tantal steel magazines are usually perfectly in-spec. Bulgarian Arsenal 10 are next best and NITI Circle 21s and the OpticoElectron 25s have always felt a bit chubby ... possibly to allow wear on the magazine side plates and latch catch.

Know your rifle.


.
thanks for the insight. i will try to pick up different mags next time as well.
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Old 05-05-2012, 06:49 PM   #8
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Norm the opposite is true.. I have to run a few strokes of a file over the lug of my polish mags.. Ill do ya a favor and trade some polish steelies for your 21s... Cuz im nice
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Old 05-05-2012, 11:14 PM   #9
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Just don't use circle 21's. I've had many an AK that was mag fussy, I just put all the mags in a pile, and try everyone to see which fit best, and keep them with the rifle. Another option would be to file on the spacer under the latch in between the receiver and trigger guard. That's the place where the flat part of the magazine catch seats in the mag well, or you can file the top of the mag catch. Only use mags your rifle likes best!
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Old 05-06-2012, 08:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insider View Post

Another option would be to file on the spacer under the latch in between the receiver and trigger guard. That's the place where the flat part of the magazine catch seats in the mag well, or you can file the top of the mag catch.

The spacer plate is where the factories mill off the amount needed to make the mag seat into the receiver.

Look at your plate. Do you see the cut?
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Old 05-06-2012, 10:38 PM   #11
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I have a circle 21 that the rear tab is noticibly thicker than my circle 10 mags, and I have the same problem with the latch not "latching" all the way. I do have another circle 21 that the rear tab looks fine, but it has other issues all together.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:21 AM   #12
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I had the exact issue with my IA Tantal. I have 5 45rd circle 10's that all work great. Only 4 out of 6 of my circle 21s fit in the receiver. I was going to sell the 2 that don't fit but Im having a Bulgy 74 built so Im hanging onto them. Im just gonna buy more until I good fitting par set.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:39 PM   #13
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I too had some problems with a couple of mags, either circle 21 or 25.
I just filed the back side of the mag till it fit. No big deal.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petro View Post
I too had some problems with a couple of mags, either circle 21 or 25.
I just filed the back side of the mag till it fit. No big deal.
back side of the mag or the tab on the mag?
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:35 AM   #15
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You need to see where it is being held up. My problem was above the tab on the back side.
It you are trying to get it in, and it won't go in, there should be marks where it is hitting.
Rereading your original post, it sounds like that should do it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 12:07 PM   #16
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On a side note My MCLULLA loader will not fit over brand new Factory circle 21 mags but will work great on surplus Russian mags.

An AKM that's finicky about mags? That's kind of purpose defeating isn't it?
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