You would need to see how it goes together. Sleeve fits snug into trunnion and rivet fits snug into sleeve. Compress the rivet and the rivet expands only as far as the material surrounding it allows for. I have various long rivets from different AK manufacturers and also rivets I have pulled out of trunnions. The used rivet has definitely expanded inside the hole but we are talking thousandths of an inch. Nothing noticeable to the eye. Ill keep an eye on it though. :-)

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
I agree. I periodically search for metric rivets on the Interweb, and usually come up with no stateside sources.

Periodically they run group buys over on Gunsnet.net. For more info, contact "1 Patriot-of-many" using that board's PM function, that's where I got mine. You could also contact "low_lead" on this board.

The solution for small quantities of "odd sizes" is to obtain rivets larger than required and turn them down on a lathe or drill press. I've turned rivets on my lathe -- it's tedious, but doable. Even an inexpensive mini-lathe will work for a that job, so you might be able to find someone who can do it for you in exchange for a six pack.

I'm not sure like the ideal of a sleeve too much -- the rivet is somewhat pliable, and fills gaps and imperfections when crushed. I'm not sure that your sleeve would allow for that . . . but to each his own. I would suggest that you perform periodic inspections to ensure your solution continues to hold up over time.

Larry

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Originally Posted by footlongcuban
You would need to see how it goes together. Sleeve fits snug into trunnion and rivet fits snug into sleeve. Compress the rivet and the rivet expands only as far as the material surrounding it allows for.

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz


Question 2: Why use tubing in the first place? 4.5 mm is 0.177" and 3/16" is 0.188", you should be able to ream both the trunnion and the receiver holes and use the bigger rivet. I'm told this used to be SOP for some builders.

Larry

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Im not following your statement about sleaving the receiver. How would you sleave the receiver? The metal tubing is inside the trunnion and flush or just below the surface of the trunnion hole.

(CORRECTION)
The Centaur Forge rivet is 5/32 NOT 3/16. The picture I posted as Figure 2 had the rivet listed as 3/16 but its not. Its corrected now. Thanks Larry for catching that.

Regarding using a bigger rivet: Show me the rivet, I would rather do that so long as the head size isn't giant.

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
I took a second look at your solution. It looks like you're only sleeving the trunnion, and not the receiver. As long as the rivet expands to fill the gap, you might be OK.

Question 1: In your photos and description, both the tubing and the rivets are listed as 3/16". If that's the case, why does the rivet fit inside the tube. Is the rivet really 5/32"?

Question 2: Why use tubing in the first place? 4.5 mm is 0.177" and 3/16" is 0.188", you should be able to ream both the trunnion and the receiver holes and use the bigger rivet. I'm told this used to be SOP for some builders.

Larry

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Originally Posted by footlongcuban
Im not following your statement about sleaving the receiver. How would you sleave the receiver? The metal tubing is inside the trunnion and flush or just below the surface of the trunnion hole.

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Originally Posted by footlongcuban

The metal tubing size is ID (inside diameter) and the rivet size is OD (outside diameter) both are 3/16" and are a tight fit due to the tolerances. Think how you drill the hole in a virgin receiver with a 3/16" drill bit but your 3/16" rivet fits through it.

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Originally Posted by footlongcuban

Regarding using a bigger rivet: Show me the rivet, I would rather do that so long as the head size isn't giant.

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The tube is 3/16 and so is the drill bit. The first drill bit is 3/16, then you insert the 3/16 tube. Then you ream it with the 5/32 bit as the Aluminum tubing has now become tighter due to being inserted into a hole of the same size or just slightly bigger. After the 5/32 drill bit is done your rivet will fit.

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
Originally, I thought you were leaving the sleeve a little long to go through the receiver wall. But from your photos I can see that I was mistaken. Sorry for the confusion.


Your figure #2 would indicate that the OD of the tubing is 3/16", not the ID. Further, I though the whole point was to be able to be use the Centaur-Forge 5/32" x 1-3/4" rivet . . . or am I missing something?


I purchased some 3/16" online. RJ Leahy has 3/16" x 2" listed on their web site. Longer than required, but easy to shorten.

Larry

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Hmmmmm..... I'd bore out and use the 3/16 rivets. That's what I have done on a couple of builds. You cut the head off so it is protruding 1.5x the diameter.

So...the trunnion is made of steel, the rivet is made of steel, and the receiver is made of steel, yet you use aluminum tubing to fill it in. Brilliant!

It seems like it would be a lot easier to just buy the correct rivets, even of they are a buck a piece. That way you don't have to go through the extra steps to put in the aluminum tube, and you end up with a quality build, as opposed to a bubba'd piece of crap.

Here are the McMaster Carr rivets:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#97300a677/=h7611

they are 3/16" which is a tiny bit bigger than the trunnion holes, but you can enlarge them easily with a drill bit. I've used these rivets before and they work fine, but I prefer AK Builder rivets because they look nicer. What's $9 extra when putting together a $300+ parts kit?

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Originally Posted by footlongcuban
The tube is 3/16 and so is the drill bit. The first drill bit is 3/16, then you insert the 3/16 tube. Then you ream it with the 5/32 bit as the Aluminum tubing has now become tighter due to being inserted into a hole of the same size or just slightly bigger. After the 5/32 drill bit is done your rivet will fit.

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+1 on the 3/16". I buy the 2" from Centuarforge - drill the rear trunnion and receiver with a #10 drill and gives a nice tight fit.

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Originally Posted by jumbopanda
So...the trunnion is made of steel, the rivet is made of steel, and the receiver is made of steel, yet you use aluminum tubing to fill it in. Brilliant!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's $9 extra when putting together a $300+ parts kit?

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Guys, Im a pretty thick-skinned individual and not going to lose sleep over a few cracks from the peanut gallery. Im more concerned that I may not be understood and therefore need to clarify my statements.

The Aluminum sleeve was a way to get me from point "A" to point "B". Ill try a steel sleeve next time, as suggested, and see if it works as well. If it does great!

But I researched corrosion of dissimilar metals and in this application Im not worried about it. I may try steel or brass next time and see what I get. Either way this was a thread about an expedient solution to a problem. From what I have read here it caused a light bulb to go off in a lot of peoples heads. Thats a good thing. Its my hope and expectation that someone will either improve on my idea or eliminate it completely by sourcing the correct rivets for a realistic price as we pay for bulk 5/32" rivets from McMaster-Carr. Either way it helps us all.

And FatPanda, Thanks for the link to McMaster-Carr. Those rivets look like they might just do the trick. They are 2" long but I needed to cut down the others anyway. And I guess I can turn the head down using my drill press and a file. (purests love it when I mention that) I only worry about the Yugo front trunnion long rivet hole. Its very close to the bottom of the trunnion as is. Have you built any Yugos with that rivet? If so did you have any concerns about re-drilling that particular rivet hole?

Larry, yes and If you look up in one of those responses I edited and made a referenced to your post. In hindsight I should have made a NEW post with that information. The battery is dead in the mic I keep in my office and I was too lazy to go out to the garage to grab the other one. So I mixed up the rivet size in that post. Anyway, thanks again for your help. =)

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
I see you corrected your post from a couple back . . . we're all on the same page now!

I've used 3/16" x 2" rivets on my PSL builds. Turned them down on my lathe and trimmed to size. The head was a little large so I turned it as well. As I mentioned previously, you could probably get someone to turn some for you for a six pack.

As always, YMMV.

Larry

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footlongcuban,

Despite the "comments from the gallery", I found your solution to be very useful. I don't think any of us can comment much beyond that, except to say that: AK rear trunnion rivets are 4.5 mm for a reason, presumably to take the rigors of FA fire. Though I personally would get some 4.5 mm rivets, there's no reason to think your solution is inherently dangerous. With periodic inspections, you should be more than fine.

As with everything in this hobby, YMMV

Larry

It's a great idea. Personally, I would never use brass or aluminum because Im familiar with the dissimilar metals problem, but since Ding provided a source for the 4130 tubing and I've got a pending order, I'm going to add in a few pieces of 4130 steel tubing.

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Originally Posted by ETG
+1 on the 3/16". I buy the 2" from Centuarforge - drill the rear trunnion and receiver with a #10 drill and gives a nice tight fit.

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Originally Posted by Fundump23
It's a great idea. Personally, I would never use brass or aluminum because Im familiar with the dissimilar metals problem, but since Ding provided a source for the 4130 tubing and I've got a pending order, I'm going to add in a few pieces of 4130 steel tubing.

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Speaking for myself I didnt happen to have any 3/16 rivets at the time. Nor did I know where to get them. Now I do but I can still see occasions where sleeving the rivet may be an option if a larger rivet is undesirable.

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
I guess I might still be missing something obvious . . . why would folks prefer the sleeve to using the 3/16" rivet?

Larry

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
I see you corrected your post from a couple back . . . we're all on the same page now!

I've used 3/16" x 2" rivets on my PSL builds. Turned them down to 4.5mm on my lathe and trimmed to size. The head was a little large so I turned it as well. As I mentioned previously, you could probably get someone to turn some for you for a six pack.

As always, YMMV.

Larry

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Cut A 5mm Trigger Or Hanner Pin and make it a Rivet No Bigge

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Originally Posted by sobieralski
Hmmm. My PSL rear trunnion has 5mm rear rivet holes (i measured the demilled rivet, so I know I didn't over drill), so 3/16 is still too small. Any advice? Do I have an unusual trunnion? My instincts tell me to buy over sized and turn down to 5mm (thanks for the suggestion LESchwartz), I also like to be able to use my AKbuilder rear rivet jig because I really like my long rivet results. That would mean attempting to approximate the head size on the AKbuilder long rivets. If I was to do that though, I would only have .75mm of rivet head protruding from around the shank. Comments? Suggestions? I'm a crazy anal freak? Yea, I know..

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Originally Posted by John@JCDLESales
Cut A 5mm Trigger Or Hanner Pin and make it a Rivet No Bigge

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
At 5mm, I wonder if someone somewhere bored them out . . . oh well, it is what it is . . . in any event, I would not open it up any further. 5mm is 0.197 and 3/16" is 0.186", so you might cut the 3/16" rivet a little long and see if you can get it to fill the gap. Worth a try anyway.

When I turned town my rivets to 4.5mm, I turned down the head as well and was able to use the standard rivet tools. Turning down the head to standard size on a 5mm shank might yield too small a head. You could always open up dimple on the rivet sets.

Larry

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LESchwartz
Why use tubing in the first place? 4.5 mm is 0.177" and 3/16" is 0.188", you should be able to ream both the trunnion and the receiver holes and use the bigger rivet. I'm told this used to be SOP for some builders.

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I routinely do this to correct over size r trunnion holes . The pics are of a screw build but works for rivets also. Drill the sleeve what ever size you need . I realize this will not work for some equipment challenged folks , but it's how I do it..Pat