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Old 08-14-2018, 03:37 PM   #106
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Cool they are coming in but they are still sold on the secondary market for $1700 all day long with no one wanting them. I cannot justiy $1.5k for a rifle such as this with all the horror stories I've heard with the accuracy and such. Wish I had one, but again just too expensive too me now.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:29 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Fjordforder View Post
I`m waiting to see the "US PSL", you all know Century is thinking about it. Only way you`ll see one for sub-$1000!
And it will be garbage. You get what you pay for....

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They're 2k because fools will pay it. Importers are screwing us bad this past year.
Like Atlantic said, overseas arsenals are fulfilling military contracts that are more lucrative. To sell to us means they have to not only charge more to make it worth their while to set aside a few to build specifically for the U.S. market but have to make it legal for our special snowflake import laws, the worst when it comes to firearm-owning countries.

Combined with several other factors of more folks being into Combloc guns thanks to video games and forums like this raising demand, terrible import laws making it not as profitable as before, bans, relying solely on tiny Eastern European countries that don't have the industrial output like Russia and China to keep up with demand while keeping prices low, tariffs, the end of the Cold War almost 30 years ago and the finite supply that didn't all come here, rising labor costs, devaluation of our currency, plus the fact the AR seems to be the only "affordable" rifle anymore since it doesn't require much human labor to build (put it in a CNC machine and call it a day), easy to assemble, uses a lot of aluminum which is stupid cheap, and a shit ton of them out there, what can one expect from the current paradigm?

From here on out the AR will be the only cheap, affordable rifle based on the above factors I mentioned. We have to build new rifles from here on out to keep up with the supply and demand that we used to coast on with surplus in the past. Being an AK fan it breaks my heart but the truth is what it is.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:50 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Scott7891 View Post
And it will be garbage. You get what you pay for....



Like Atlantic said, overseas arsenals are fulfilling military contracts that are more lucrative. To sell to us means they have to not only charge more to make it worth their while to set aside a few to build specifically for the U.S. market but have to make it legal for our special snowflake import laws, the worst when it comes to firearm-owning countries.

Combined with several other factors of more folks being into Combloc guns thanks to video games and forums like this raising demand, terrible import laws making it not as profitable as before, bans, relying solely on tiny Eastern European countries that don't have the industrial output like Russia and China to keep up with demand while keeping prices low, tariffs, the end of the Cold War almost 30 years ago and the finite supply that didn't all come here, rising labor costs, devaluation of our currency, plus the fact the AR seems to be the only "affordable" rifle anymore since it doesn't require much human labor to build (put it in a CNC machine and call it a day), easy to assemble, uses a lot of aluminum which is stupid cheap, and a shit ton of them out there, what can one expect from the current paradigm?

From here on out the AR will be the only cheap, affordable rifle based on the above factors I mentioned. We have to build new rifles from here on out to keep up with the supply and demand that we used to coast on with surplus in the past. Being an AK fan it breaks my heart but the truth is what it is.
That`s what I`m saying, I`m waiting for that trash to be released and people to complain about them blowing apart.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:03 PM   #109
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There was a day not too long ago when I'd jump on every new Com Block Arsenal made rifle or pistol, but that day is in the past for me.

My appreciation for the AK has not diminished one iota.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:12 PM   #110
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I disagree with some of this.

Although what you go on about is nothing new, and it does affect the price, hovering at $2,000 is rape pricing.

If it's not rape pricing, tell me how the same factory can put out a sub $400 parts kit, and sub $150 barrels if they are so overwhelmed with orders?


$400 kit + $200 barrel + $200 receiver + $200 assembly and we are at $1,000. I think I'm being generous on a couple of those numbers as well. It's not like they have to jump through hoops to meet US import regs, in fact one could argue there is less work involved.

Couple that with the current going price here, and I think we will see these drop sharply in price. I'll make a prediction that we will see these creep down to $1,100.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott7891 View Post
And it will be garbage. You get what you pay for....



Like Atlantic said, overseas arsenals are fulfilling military contracts that are more lucrative. To sell to us means they have to not only charge more to make it worth their while to set aside a few to build specifically for the U.S. market but have to make it legal for our special snowflake import laws, the worst when it comes to firearm-owning countries.

Combined with several other factors of more folks being into Combloc guns thanks to video games and forums like this raising demand, terrible import laws making it not as profitable as before, bans, relying solely on tiny Eastern European countries that don't have the industrial output like Russia and China to keep up with demand while keeping prices low, tariffs, the end of the Cold War almost 30 years ago and the finite supply that didn't all come here, rising labor costs, devaluation of our currency, plus the fact the AR seems to be the only "affordable" rifle anymore since it doesn't require much human labor to build (put it in a CNC machine and call it a day), easy to assemble, uses a lot of aluminum which is stupid cheap, and a shit ton of them out there, what can one expect from the current paradigm?

From here on out the AR will be the only cheap, affordable rifle based on the above factors I mentioned. We have to build new rifles from here on out to keep up with the supply and demand that we used to coast on with surplus in the past. Being an AK fan it breaks my heart but the truth is what it is.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:23 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Weaponmark View Post
I disagree with some of this.

Although what you go on about is nothing new, and it does affect the price, hovering at $2,000 is rape pricing.

If it's not rape pricing, tell me how the same factory can put out a sub $400 parts kit, and sub $150 barrels if they are so overwhelmed with orders?


$400 kit + $200 barrel + $200 receiver + $200 assembly and we are at $1,000. I think I'm being generous on a couple of those numbers as well. It's not like they have to jump through hoops to meet US import regs, in fact one could argue there is less work involved.

Couple that with the current going price here, and I think we will see these drop sharply in price. I'll make a prediction that we will see these creep down to $1,100.
They also have to make profit as well from their endeavor. How much profit should they make? Also having to re-engineer the receivers for U.S. compliance is $$$. Not a ton of money but it adds up per rifle. Remember the PSL, like the AK, has the dreaded third-pin hole thus is considered a machinegun even if it isn't. That means making sure the rifle can't be easily modified to be a machinegun. Then they have to grind off the bayonet lug only to have Century put one back on (if they even decide to do it). Labor costs are rising in Romania as well so stuff won't be cheap like it was.

Then you have the middlemen like Century who need their share as well.

Not saying I want to spend $2K on a PSL because I don't, but there are many factors as to why we got to this point and it isn't because Romania and Century decided to charge 2K out of the blue just for the heck of it. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, like you said their prices will drop like what happened to others that weren't selling.
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:27 PM   #112
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regarding the pricing being so high:

1) Century looked at the prices of used PSLs. Why would they charge less than the going rate for a used PSL? They probably didn't pay much more for these new PSLs than they paid for the old ones, so they're probably only being imported because the profit margin is so high.

or

2) Century had to beat out the big spenders like Saudi Arabia in order to get PSLs from the factory. Far less likely IMO since Century didn't seem motivated to import PSLs at all pre-ISIS.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:06 PM   #113
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The Firearm Blog also says they are inbound.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:28 PM   #114
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Yeesh... at the $2k price point, may as well find a way to make SVDs.
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:04 PM   #115
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My only question is, if they’re willing to bring back a rifle chambered for a dying caliber in the US why not bring in their RPK74 variant?
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:24 PM   #116
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My only question is, if they’re willing to bring back a rifle chambered for a dying caliber in the US why not bring in their RPK74 variant?
I'd imagine even still today that 7.62x54r is a far more popular and marketable caliber than 5.45x39mm

When I worked gun shows back in NY, Mosin's and crates of 54r sold quick... 5.45x39 barely moved at all.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:49 PM   #117
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Those prices I put out there are in relation to current pricing of closely related imported kits, parts, or in the case of the receiver, US produced parts (which typically are more expensive than imported versions) so in short, that's ALREADY a profit price!

What I realize I left out was the scope price, so one can add $200-300 on top of that and then you're still at $1300-1400 total, profit added in that's in line with other current offerings from the same facility.

As I eluded to previously, a "re-engineered" receiver consists of the SAME PSL receiver with less holes lol, so if you want to be technical, it should be cheaper since less machining required. I wouldn't expect it to be cheaper, but I certainly can't see it being more expensive.


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They also have to make profit as well from their endeavor. How much profit should they make? Also having to re-engineer the receivers for U.S. compliance is $$$. Not a ton of money but it adds up per rifle. Remember the PSL, like the AK, has the dreaded third-pin hole thus is considered a machinegun even if it isn't. That means making sure the rifle can't be easily modified to be a machinegun. Then they have to grind off the bayonet lug only to have Century put one back on (if they even decide to do it). Labor costs are rising in Romania as well so stuff won't be cheap like it was.

Then you have the middlemen like Century who need their share as well.

Not saying I want to spend $2K on a PSL because I don't, but there are many factors as to why we got to this point and it isn't because Romania and Century decided to charge 2K out of the blue just for the heck of it. If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, like you said their prices will drop like what happened to others that weren't selling.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:20 PM   #118
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isnt there also a 11% tax on completed guns to add into the total? jim
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:28 PM   #119
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Picked up my kit 9 years ago for $229.00 with barrel. Unfortunately the barrel ended up being bad. Buuuttt, out of shear luck I actually got a prexis barrel!!! If you can believe that.
It still needed some work done to it but the bore is really good. Found a great smith to work on it after I found a complete TGI square back receiver complete, paid $49.00 for it!!!
Made it easy to put a stock on it. so far it's shooting great.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:32 PM   #120
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Wow 2K for a meh rifle.

I walked away from one at a gun show for $1,400 with scope 4 mags an pouch.

If they sold and made money off $700 AES-10Bs I’m lost on how these are $2,000 rifles.

But hey, capitalism love it or leave it right...
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:35 PM   #121
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Yeesh... at the $2k price point, may as well find a way to make SVDs.
I would pay 2K for a parts kit, barrel and receiver for a SVD.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:33 PM   #122
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yeah, that would be nice but it'll never happen. The receivers would cost too much and I wonder if SVD parts kits would even be approved for import.
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:23 AM   #123
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.....
Like Atlantic said, overseas arsenals are fulfilling military contracts that are more lucrative...
Yes, isn't that interesting? It wasn't like that 5 years ago, though. The overseas arsenals were selling to us then just fine. Plus, all the parts kits were out there. I wonder who is buying up so many small arms, that there is a supply deficit for the USA?
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:58 AM   #124
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Yes, isn't that interesting? It wasn't like that 5 years ago, though. The overseas arsenals were selling to us then just fine. Plus, all the parts kits were out there. I wonder who is buying up so many small arms, that there is a supply deficit for the USA?
Evidently those with more money to spend and in larger lots.
There are armed conflicts on several continents., as well as the more recent NATO members upgrading their small arms.
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Old 08-19-2018, 02:39 PM   #125
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On the one hand, I'd love for the price of AKs and PSLs to come back down to earth.

On the other hand - for admittedly selfish reasons - I'm hoping that Century does not burst the price bubble too much ...

- Back in 2009 or so, I bought a beautiful V93 from Atlantic Arms for something in the $1400 range. Not too long after that, Century came out with its C93 in the $700 range. Yeah, it was crap compared to the V93, but pricing and resale was depressed for a long time after that.

- Last year I picked up my first PSL (minty PSL Sporter with Russian 7x36 POSP Rangefinder scope and tin of Hungarian light ball ammo for $1300. Taking out $150 for the ammo, I guess I did OK. (edit: now that I think about it, $1300 for the bundle, less $150 for ammo, less $300-350 for the SVD scope = $800-850 for the rifle. I guess I feel a bit better about that )


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Evidently those with more money to spend and in larger lots.
There are armed conflicts on several continents., as well as the more recent NATO members upgrading their small arms.
Exactly - Syria, Iraq, Ukraine, and on and on ... lots of buyers for "standard" PSL and AK rifles, without having to dick around with special US import compliance requirements like not having that evil third hole.
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Old 08-19-2018, 03:39 PM   #126
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Why are so many shocked. CIA will bring them in and price as they want, if they don't sell off depending on how many they bring in, they'll drop the price a bit and see if folks bite. It's been quite a few years since the PSL was imported, it's a decent rifle IMO. It was never designed as a high rate of fire weapon, it is what it is and now a few more trickle in. Probably several bashers will be listing their crippled weapons as DMR's and listing them on Gunbroker for just a fraction less than CIA has them for sale. It's your choice, hate the player or hate the game.
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Old 08-19-2018, 11:32 PM   #127
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Makes me chuckle though. The PSL (including other names) was available from 1997 through 2014. It was quite easy to find and priced from $500 on the low end (usually kit builds w/ a scope and mag) up to $700 (for the complete package and true import).
Now, I have to exclude our younger emembers here because they couldn't have bought one during that 17 year window, but...for others who could have, why didn't you?
Fact is so many people didn't give the PSL a second glance for the better part of a whole generation. Maybe they were right to not bother with it, or maybe not. It is what it is. A durable and reliable rifle, but not especially ergonomic or accurate. It is just 'good enough' to do its job.

So many people seem to only want something when they can't have it or can't find it. The list is huge of guns that people just kind of ignored or kept putting off buying. They say the money's not there for it or the time isn't right, etc.
Funny how they couldn't find $700 for a rifle one year, but are lining up to hand out $1,500+ for it the next hehe.

OK ok, not meaning to be harsh but really with imports, you have to treat them the same as milsurp. If one comes along you like, you need to make it a priority and pick it up during its import cycle. This will always be its lowest price point. When milsurp and imports dry up, then prices nearly always rise....sometimes dramatically (looking at you SGL31 and Archer-01).

As for me? I had one of the original PSLs, bought probably around 2006 or 2007. Then i sold it off to a returning US Marine around 2011. It was my welcome home gift to him I guess. Whatever, i felt fine about moving it along.
Then earlier this year, i bought another PSL off a friend needing cash. Figured I'd mess with it a bit and then resell it down the line, but I have kind of ended up enjoying it more than i expected. So the plan to sell it keeps getting pushed back heh. These new CAI imports are further encouragement for me to just keep this one. Afterall, it is a matching rifle with nice milspec blued parts, screw-on muzzle brake, and I even restored the bayo lug because hey; why not?!?! lol

I paid my friend $1,900 for this rifle but that was a package deal for several things:
Earlier import "FPK Dragunov', 1 Romanian 4x scope w/ cover, 2 early import Russian 8x scopes w/ covers, 1 5 rd & 5 10 rd Romie mags (also blued to match), a nice leather sling, military 4 cell mag & scope pouch, accessories for the scop in a small pouch, and cleaning kit + oiler.

I turned around and sold the 2 Russian scopes for $600 and the 5 rd mag for $100, so now am in the PSL w/ 4x & 5 mags for $1,200, which is a price I am comfortable with. Really adjusting for inflation, its not a huge amount more than what I paid for my original one over a decade ago.
Realistically, I'd say a bare bones PSL w/o scope & 1 mag is worth around $1,000; and one w/ 4x scope & 4 mags in pouch is around $1,500.
If these from Century now do come with all the gear, accessories, and several mags? $2k is still high but not insanity. If though its just the rifle, scope, and 1-2 mags? Then its pretty damn silly. Then again for me personally, having pouches and slings and other support gear counts for a lot. I really appreciate having the complete as-issued kit.


I enjoy the PSL, but at $2k+? shit that's getting up near SCAR 17 territory!
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:59 AM   #128
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Glad I got mine, package deal, sold off the Black Horse stock. Brought my price down to under 1K.

I like shooting it, I see it as an AK and Mosin love child.

There are lot of other rifles I would rather have than a 2K PSL.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:37 PM   #129
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Glad I got mine, package deal, sold off the Black Horse stock. Brought my price down to under 1K.

I like shooting it, I see it as an AK and Mosin love child.

There are lot of other rifles I would rather have than a 2K PSL.
Agreed. Many better values than that.
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:27 PM   #130
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What happened to century not wanting to import the Zastava M91 because it would have been 2k street price and would have been to expensive they claimed, at least that has never been imported, even if it's pretty much the same thing.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:59 PM   #131
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What happened to century not wanting to import the Zastava M91 because it would have been 2k street price and would have been to expensive they claimed, at least that has never been imported, even if it's pretty much the same thing.
Maybe they could get a better margin on the PSLs (i.e. could not get a reasonable margin on the M91)?
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:31 PM   #132
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Heres a jackass in my state trying to butt fuck an idiot with his $2,500.00 PSL.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/846419...nian-cugir-psl

He also has a K98 "sniper" without a scope for $2,200.00
Seems legit lmfao!
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:37 PM   #133
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Bought my PSL back in 2008 for $670.




Black Horse stock set?
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Old 08-21-2018, 11:56 PM   #134
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Why, I wonder, hasn't CSSPECS ever put out aftermarket PSL mags?


Their M77 mags are sure way better than the originals.
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Old 08-22-2018, 08:21 AM   #135
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Why, I wonder, hasn't CSSPECS ever put out aftermarket PSL mags?


Their M77 mags are sure way better than the originals.
Original M77 magazines ate quite good.
The M77 PAP is another story.
Good question why csspec never delved into PSL mags.
Perhaps a rimmed cartridge mag is a bit more tricky than a rimless type.
Maybe they will chime in here.
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Old 08-22-2018, 09:20 AM   #136
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I had $750'ish in the one I had and sold it for the same.

It was OK but even at that price point I have no desire to get another and the magazine prices are retarded.
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Old 08-22-2018, 10:09 AM   #137
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Original M77 magazines ate quite good.
The M77 PAP is another story.
Good question why csspec never delved into PSL mags.
Perhaps a rimmed cartridge mag is a bit more tricky than a rimless type.
Maybe they will chime in here.


They would get a lot of my money if they offer PSL magazines.
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Old 08-31-2018, 04:35 PM   #138
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I had $750'ish in the one I had and sold it for the same.

It was OK but even at that price point I have no desire to get another and the magazine prices are retarded.
There are some guns that I'd love to own but don't feel like dealing with their ridiculous prices as well as expensive accessories. PSL's are on that list. Such a cool rifle especially for us that love AK's and Mosin's but with mags at 50 bucks+ a pop and a rifle that shoots decent but not awesome, it's just not worth the 2 grand for me.

That can buy a lot nowadays...
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Old 09-01-2018, 04:07 AM   #139
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a PSL is what it is, some say it's not a $2k rifle, but let's have the market deside that, but how many semi-auto in 7.62X54r DMR role rifles can be had for less than say $1750 these days?, the only ones i can think of are the svd, svt and m91.
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Old 09-01-2018, 09:31 PM   #140
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a PSL is what it is, some say it's not a $2k rifle, but let's have the market deside that, but how many semi-auto in 7.62X54r DMR role rifles can be had for less than say $1750 these days?, the only ones i can think of are the svd, svt and m91.
Why in 2018 would you like to have DMR in 7.62x54r?
DMR is useless without good ammo.
Match grade ammo in 7.62x54r is hard to find and more expensive than match grade ammo in .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor.
Both those calibers offer you many, many, many more choices than 7.62x54r as well...

From collectors point of view, yes, those PSL rifles will probably sell.
But if you are honestly looking for DMR to shoot and enjoy it, then this would be rather poor purchase...
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