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Old 11-12-2017, 12:31 AM   #1
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Default Posp scopes vs modern scopes ???

Are psop scopes better then modern day scopes or vice versa? Or is it just the purist factor ? I really want one but was wondering if it’s worth it or just because looks cool ? Vs the other modern scopes like vortex Burris and what not .
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Old 11-12-2017, 12:59 AM   #2
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I have used POSP scopes and pk series red dots. All Combloc. Absolutely love the feel, simplicity, solid clicks on the turrets, rugged. Steel. Greatness, need i say more?


Lol, it depends on the functions you need I suppose if you're looking for bells and whistles but POSP and the like are awesome and just feel right.
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Old 11-12-2017, 01:15 AM   #3
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Woods, I have been wondering the same thing.
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Old 11-12-2017, 03:35 PM   #4
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With me being a glass snob and an accuracy snob, I will say that in my limited experience, there is no comparison. Modern glass will be nicer, clearer, lighter, and more forgiving than old soviet scopes. If given the choice between a $350 POSP or equivalent and a new Leupold, you're getting a lot more bang for your buck with the new glass.

That being said, If you want something that looks like it belongs on a Kalashnikov rifle, and looks like it should be a tank of an optic, then I think you know which one to get.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:23 PM   #5
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Think of a POSP as a VX-1 Leupold..Same clarity, same ruggedness, Just no gold ring warranty.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakwa View Post
With me being a glass snob and an accuracy snob, I will say that in my limited experience, there is no comparison. Modern glass will be nicer, clearer, lighter, and more forgiving than old soviet scopes. If given the choice between a $350 POSP or equivalent and a new Leupold, you're getting a lot more bang for your buck with the new glass.

That being said, If you want something that looks like it belongs on a Kalashnikov rifle, and looks like it should be a tank of an optic, then I think you know which one to get.
Not really..... Many new and especially old Soviet PSO scope have the best glass and no Leupold is clearer.
Weight is pretty much the same or very similar. Magnesium alloy they use for PSO scopes is lighter then steel.

There's many variety of PSO family of scopes, IMO I do not feel a need for a Leopuld with (NPZ) PO scope that fits my need.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:58 PM   #7
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Just my take, but this is a lot like asking which red dot is better: Aimpoint Micro or a Holosun ACSS? Undoubtedly the Aimpoint is made better, but it lacks the ACSS reticle. The Holosun isn't as well made as the Aimpoint but it can estimate range and has a CQB ring for quick target acquisition. What features do you want/need more? What features can you live without? What can you afford? Answer these questions , and you will find which suits your needs better.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:32 PM   #8
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I like the way the Russian style scopes look but they aren't as good as what is made in the West imo. I wish that they were because they're really cool. If they were less expensive then I think they would be more popular kind of like their ammo.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:50 PM   #9
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I like the way the Russian style scopes look but they aren't as good as what is made in the West imo. I wish that they were because they're really cool. If they were less expensive then I think they would be more popular kind of like their ammo.
Again, nonsense. Own both Russian and "Western" or ours optics. There's absolutely nothing that our scopes do better then Russian ones.
Russian glass clarity/quality is way beyond our own for the same price point.
Their optics, especially military grade stuff is cheaper while also more durable.

If their optics were any cheaper then what they are, they would actually lose money on making/selling them, if anything, for a while they were undervalued.
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Old 11-12-2017, 11:11 PM   #10
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OP,

This is really comparing apples to oranges.

What models do you want to compare? What magnification are you looking for? Are you familiar with the metric system? Familiar with the com Bloc reticle offerings?

The quality is there on MOST Russian optics, the customer service is not.
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:43 AM   #11
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"Combloc". Just combloc. I'm surprised TX-zen the man hasn't chimed in. Probably holding back for the perfect strike haha. But seriously, everything about it for me just feels right (except I have however been thinking about my first "modern" optic being the goat fucker annilator combo for the x39 acss reticle)

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Old 11-13-2017, 01:05 AM   #12
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Yeah for the fairly short distance POSP scopes are designed for they are pretty good, course you aren’t going to reach long range with them like modern glass
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:17 PM   #13
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^
Nonsense yet again.
I've read numerous accounts where SVD was used at 800m to a kilometer both in Afghanistan and Chechnya. It's scope is only 4x.
Newer models also have larger more precise turrets as well.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:02 PM   #14
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No, compared to modern tech POSP scopes are inferior.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:18 PM   #15
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^
What exactly is inferior?

When they were first made, there were plenty of scopes that were similar to what we have today. In general, scope technology hasn't changed all that much, illumination and anti-condensation has improved but Soviets had that years before it was common practice.
Glass has been and still is as good as it gets. BDC and range finder was one of a kind and still works really well to this day. Etched reticle was superior to cross-hair (spider web). QD mount eliminated the use of rings or other setup. Just like AK, it simply works.

There's a reason why the scopes are still produced with very little change, they were ahead of their time and if something is not broke there's no need to change/fix it.
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:34 PM   #16
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I’ve only ever used one POSP scope. It was really cool, loved the reticle but my US commercial market scopes have better glass. If I ever do a DMR type rifle I’ll for sure get a Russian scope but you’re really sipping the cool-aid if you think the pinnacle of scopes comes from the commies.
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Old 11-14-2017, 12:09 AM   #17
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I have a POSP on my Vepr 54r 23"bbl and for the money it cannot be beat. Sure I can go out and spend 1k on a scope but why? The posp is made for the VEPR/AK, The BDC just works, the scope works and does its job and all for $300.
If I could get a more civilian version of a POSP for Remington 700 ACC-SD .308, I would.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by paulbow View Post
I’ve only ever used one POSP scope. It was really cool, loved the reticle but my US commercial market scopes have better glass. If I ever do a DMR type rifle I’ll for sure get a Russian scope but you’re really sipping the cool-aid if you think the pinnacle of scopes comes from the commies.
Soviets were fielding scopes for Mosins and SVT's by something like 1000 to 1 compared to us and the Germans, our and German sniper scopes were derivatives from hunting scopes while Soviets were mass producing military scopes from the ground up with excellent glass by that time, Germans were so impressed that they modified Soviet PU scopes for their own rifles.
When PSO-1 came about and in mass production, we had nothing comparable. We still relied on mainly cross-hair hunting style scope for our snipers (which were actually less durable, expensive and inferior scopes).

Yes, if one thing "commies" did right it would be their military optics.

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Old 11-14-2017, 04:10 AM   #19
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If you consider any optics at all from that time period, are there any that are even debateably comparable to contemporary scopes?
The PSOs are pretty damn excellent. Stuff by Burris, Vortex etc is not by any stretch of the imagination the top shelf of contemporary craft, its budget stuff for the commercial market. The PSOs, etc *were* the pinnacle of their day. Like any combloc stuff thats still available commonly, youre buying it for substantially less than the cost of manufacture.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:26 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Bacon&AlcoholDistributor View Post
Not really..... Many new and especially old Soviet PSO scope have the best glass and no Leupold is clearer.
Weight is pretty much the same or very similar. Magnesium alloy they use for PSO scopes is lighter then steel.

There's many variety of PSO family of scopes, IMO I do not feel a need for a Leopuld with (NPZ) PO scope that fits my need.
Many of the older soviet optics are excellent. Especially for their time. Not arguing that.
Are they rugged (more so than a standard 1" tube sporting optic in the same price range)? It seems like that may be the case.

But the clarity in a soviet optics is probably going to average that of a VX-1.
To say that no Leupold is clearer is a rather strange statement. Understanding that when comparing optics with a marginal difference in clarity, the end users ability to judge clarity may be subjective, but when comparing a PSO to [let's say] a VX-6 there could be no doubt that Leupold would appear clearer.
But we are talking about a comparable Leupold. So lets say a VX-2, even though I think an on sale VX-3 would be a realistic comparison so far as price as well; I think most will agree that the VX-2 will appear to have nicer glass.

It seems like you either have one/or some of the best examples of glass ever put into soviet optics or you're allowing your bias of your favorite glass to get in the way of a realistic comparison of the two types of optics.
(^This is only my opinion based on having owned/shot several different VX-1's, VX-2's, VX-R's, as well as POSP's and similar style optics.^)
Perhaps all of my examples that I've owned have been the anomalies?

But I was just using Leupold as an example. They are by no means the best civilian option out there.
A true better to the soviet optics in most ways would be a 1st gen Viper PST 1-4x24. You can find them on sale for $350 at Cabela's right now.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/hunti...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon&AlcoholDistributor View Post
^
What exactly is inferior?

When they were first made, there were plenty of scopes that were similar to what we have today. In general, scope technology hasn't changed all that much, illumination and anti-condensation has improved but Soviets had that years before it was common practice.
Glass has been and still is as good as it gets. BDC and range finder was one of a kind and still works really well to this day. Etched reticle was superior to cross-hair (spider web). QD mount eliminated the use of rings or other setup. Just like AK, it simply works.

There's a reason why the scopes are still produced with very little change, they were ahead of their time and if something is not broke there's no need to change/fix it.

Frankly if that is your synopsis you don't know much of what you are talking about, I had a POSP for a couple of years, one of the newer ones too, it doesn't compare to even primary arms glass in clarity or quality, newer scopes are lighter and more durable and can be mounted lower.


It's old tech and has been surpassed many times over now for the same money you would spend on that 1960's tech.


There isn't a Com-bloc PSO or POSP I have seen that doesn't have the fish eye effect really bad as well.


In short we can sum up all your posts with one simple phrase "muh Russia stuff is da best" retarded clapping ensues.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:37 PM   #22
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POSP and PSO-PO are not made at the same factory or even the same country.
Without a doubt from years of having many, PSO and PO (made by NPZ) have superior glass to BeLOMO POSP scopes.
Military grade PSO scope have one of the best glass in a scope, same goes for Kashtan and other military optics.
We have bought and relied on mainly foreign production of high quality glass (German- Japan), Soviets put much effort in making their own glass as high quality as possible. In Soviet era, one can get a degree from a university in such a field. Cinema equipment glass and camera lenses were among some of the best. Take a look on Ebay on how much their Soviet era glass is worth.

I can put some of the PO scopes clarity to the best Leuopold and it won't be any worse.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:40 PM   #23
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Let's hear from Woods on a few of the optics that he wants to compare.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIGA 5.45 View Post
Frankly if that is your synopsis you don't know much of what you are talking about, I had a POSP for a couple of years, one of the newer ones too, it doesn't compare to even primary arms glass in clarity or quality, newer scopes are lighter and more durable and can be mounted lower.


It's old tech and has been surpassed many times over now for the same money you would spend on that 1960's tech.


There isn't a Com-bloc PSO or POSP I have seen that doesn't have the fish eye effect really bad as well.


In short we can sum up all your posts with one simple phrase "muh Russia stuff is da best" retarded clapping ensues.
You are an idiot. Simple as that...... I have many examples of both and without a doubt PSO- PO scopes clarity isn't even comparable to Primary arms.
To state that, either you are retarder, need fish tank glasses or simply full of it.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon&AlcoholDistributor View Post
POSP and PSO-PO are not made at the same factory or even the same country.
Without a doubt from years of having many, PSO and PO (made by NPZ) have superior glass to BeLOMO POSP scopes.
Military grade PSO scope have one of the best glass in a scope, same goes for Kashtan and other military optics.
We have bought and relied on mainly foreign production of high quality glass (German- Japan), Soviets put much effort in making their own glass as high quality as possible. In Soviet era, one can get a degree from a university in such a field. Cinema equipment glass and camera lenses were among some of the best. Take a look on Ebay on how much their Soviet era glass is worth.

I can put some of the PO scopes clarity to the best Leuopold and it won't be any worse.
Cold war era camera lenses are considered to be ridiculously good quality by those in the know, supposedly.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:09 PM   #26
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Cold war era camera lenses are considered to be ridiculously good quality by those in the know, supposedly.


Yes they are, many are modified for DSLR and are exceptionally good.

Off topic.
In the past 15-20 years the prices have risen greatly.

In 2011 I bought this 1960's 75mm lens for $370,


Being dumb I sold it for $400 about a year later. It was one of the best lens I've ever had so I had no real reason for selling it.
I was on a hunt for similar one for years, I was willing to pay over 1K for one and luckily I found one for only $700.

One of the few things I own that I will never sell.

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Old 11-15-2017, 11:12 AM   #27
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Thank you fellas for your input my range I would wanna spend is around 300 . I don’t know which models exactly but it’s for my 20” vepr .308 and I would want to push it as far as it can go . What posp scope or modern scope should I acquire ?
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:28 AM   #28
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My 20" 54R with POSP PRO scope.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:38 AM   #29
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My 20" 54R with POSP PRO scope.
Very nice ! What kind of rail system is that ?
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon&AlcoholDistributor View Post
Soviets were fielding scopes for Mosins and SVT's by something like 1000 to 1 compared to us and the Germans, our and German sniper scopes were derivatives from hunting scopes while Soviets were mass producing military scopes from the ground up with excellent glass by that time, Germans were so impressed that they modified Soviet PU scopes for their own rifles.
When PSO-1 came about and in mass production, we had nothing comparable. We still relied on mainly cross-hair hunting style scope for our snipers (which were actually less durable, expensive and inferior scopes).

Yes, if one thing "commies" did right it would be their military optics.
My mind has been blown. This is truth.
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Old 11-15-2017, 11:58 AM   #31
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Very nice ! What kind of rail system is that ?
Thanks... Krebs keymod.
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Old 11-15-2017, 01:41 PM   #32
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Guys, this is just a quick reference for some of you to get an idea about Soviet optics.

about 6 years ago we were teaching a class on my friends property where we can shoot from 100 to 1,200 meters. This was day 2 and we moved students out to engage targets between 300 and 600 meters. we also had a radio controlled target @ 800 meters.

a couple of older neighbors showed up, and were curious to what we were up to. They must have been in the 60s. Vic had a tricked out AR-10 with some stupid awesome crazy glass on it. He offered the old timers his rifle, and shooting prone off the bi-pod to have some fun. Guys laid down, and tried shooting the 800 meter silhouette. Had hard time focusing, finding proper eye relief. Once they got used to it, they still could not engage the 800 meter target.

I offered them to try again now using my SVD with original 4x PSO-1 scope on it. At first they were like WTF is this reticle and this weird side-offset. After a few minutes of explaining the rifle/scope/ammo combination- first shot and they made contact with steel. They were both very surprised how easy it was to find, and engage the target @ 800 meters (almost 900 yards) using a simple 4x PSO-1 scope. They ended shooting almost all my 7N1. LOL But they were hitting it almost every time!

you can still find original PSO-1 or PSO-1M scope for around 400$ on ebay. sometimes cheaper.
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:52 PM   #33
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Thank you fellas for your input my range I would wanna spend is around 300 . I don’t know which models exactly but it’s for my 20” vepr .308 and I would want to push it as far as it can go . What posp scope or modern scope should I acquire ?
If your budget is that low, remember that unless you get the PSO you also need to buy a mount for it. Lets say thay costs 100....leaves you with 200 and youre down to either Primary Arms or nothing.

For that kind of money, you cant be disappointed with a PSO.
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Old 11-20-2017, 08:09 PM   #34
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I like POSP scopes for their simplicity and value. If you have an AK with a side rail - it is the most convenient way to quickly mount and re-mount your scope without losing zero.
Built-in side mount makes it a breeze. For around $300 it is a good deal in my book.
Of course you can get a pricier scope, and buy separate mount - but by then you'd be at twice the price, with questionable improvement in functionality.

As someone who sells those puppies, I am naturally biased
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Old 11-21-2017, 09:03 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by voron View Post
Guys, this is just a quick reference for some of you to get an idea about Soviet optics.

about 6 years ago we were teaching a class on my friends property where we can shoot from 100 to 1,200 meters. This was day 2 and we moved students out to engage targets between 300 and 600 meters. we also had a radio controlled target @ 800 meters.

a couple of older neighbors showed up, and were curious to what we were up to. They must have been in the 60s. Vic had a tricked out AR-10 with some stupid awesome crazy glass on it. He offered the old timers his rifle, and shooting prone off the bi-pod to have some fun. Guys laid down, and tried shooting the 800 meter silhouette. Had hard time focusing, finding proper eye relief. Once they got used to it, they still could not engage the 800 meter target.

I offered them to try again now using my SVD with original 4x PSO-1 scope on it. At first they were like WTF is this reticle and this weird side-offset. After a few minutes of explaining the rifle/scope/ammo combination- first shot and they made contact with steel. They were both very surprised how easy it was to find, and engage the target @ 800 meters (almost 900 yards) using a simple 4x PSO-1 scope. They ended shooting almost all my 7N1. LOL But they were hitting it almost every time!

you can still find original PSO-1 or PSO-1M scope for around 400$ on ebay. sometimes cheaper.
This... all day long. I still can't get used to mil-dots. I find the Dragunov and Simonov reticles to be more intuitive and easier to use. I love my POSP!
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