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Old 07-28-2016, 11:44 PM   #1
Kentuckywindage
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Default Sgammo Croatian and Hungarian mags

Just my luck... Buy some mags and a better deal at cdnn sports turns up. Could have bought new Bulgarian steel but I digress. Got a couple excellent to like new Hungarians and 3 of their new Croatian BHO mags. They said the manufacturer had reworked their design to fit more akm patterns. We shall see and I'll let y'all know my findings.
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:59 PM   #2
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My Croatian mags would not fit in my PAP M92. Century does not hack mag wells on the M92. They are nice quality but don't fit normal mag wells in my experience. Let us know.
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Old 07-29-2016, 04:58 AM   #3
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Will do should be here this evening. hopefully they'll fit my wasr and I'll test them in a friends mak as well. Have you got that PTR yet? I've been looking at those as I would like to have a semi auto 308
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:55 AM   #4
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Never had a problem with the VCI bagged, Croats mags.

Let us know about your findings.
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:27 PM   #5
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All fit the wasr Croatians are super nice looking mags man o man. About to go shoot at the farm to function test. I will say that the Croatian mags are TIGHT. They lock up rock solid but it's going to slow down mag changes slightly if pmags fit extra snug in your rifle you'll have to whip out the file. I'll test fitment in a mak tomorrow
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:38 AM   #6
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That MAK check will be the real test,

Once mine fit the MAK, they fit everything....

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Old 08-01-2016, 06:16 PM   #7
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I got some coming. I do not have any of the older Croatians or Gibbs, just the military surplus ones.
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Old 08-03-2016, 07:15 PM   #8
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An update on these mags... They fit the mak. Also the spring in the Croatian mags had to be broken in I guess as my wasr was having some issues stripping off the first round in a fully loaded mag. After chambering the first round no problems while firing. Same thing with all the Croatians. Left them fully loaded for 48 hours seems to have helped.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:45 PM   #9
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Is the rear lug on these one piece or two? The first go-round of the Croatian mags had a two-piece rear lug. The square plate welded to the rest of the mag body, and the actual lug welded to the square plate.
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Old 08-04-2016, 10:00 PM   #10
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Just got my 3 Croatian BHO mags from sgammo. Been wanting some for awhile. Like Kentuckywindage said they're some nice looking mags. The fit wasn't as tight as I expected from what I've read about these mags but all 3 fit my O-pap nice with a little wobble. Can't wait to get out and test them to make sure they function good. I dont have alot of free time so it might be awhile before i get to try them. Unfortunately the rear lug is 2 pieces. IMO these are well worth $13.
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Old 08-04-2016, 10:05 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksbsnowowl View Post
Is the rear lug on these one piece or two? The first go-round of the Croatian mags had a two-piece rear lug. The square plate welded to the rest of the mag body, and the actual lug welded to the square plate.
I would like to see a pic of this lug showing evidence that it is two piece. The Korean commercial are the only ones I know about that use a two piece rear lug.
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Old 08-04-2016, 10:48 PM   #12
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Sorry I'm new here and I'm horrible with anything computer or phone so I don't know how to post pics. Like ksbsnowowl said u can see where the square plate is welded to mag and lug is welded to plate. You can see a separation line between the lug and plate on the top and bottom. It doesn't look bad but you can see it. I probably wouldn't have noticed if it wasn't mentioned here. I maybe wrong. Been wrong a lot. But it looks like 2 pieces to me.
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:04 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshut View Post
I would like to see a pic of this lug showing evidence that it is two piece. The Korean commercial are the only ones I know about that use a two piece rear lug.
I'll try to get a pic of one over the weekend.
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:16 AM   #14
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Thanks for the update. The Croatian mags look pretty but just my m92 detests them. I have another rifle that won't play with the Croat mags as well. I just forgot which one, I think my O PAP didn't like it.
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Old 08-05-2016, 02:20 AM   #15
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I would like to know how to tell Gen 1 from Gen 2 Croation magazines?
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Old 08-05-2016, 05:51 AM   #16
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My croats and Gibbs just fit my Npap, m70b1
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Old 08-05-2016, 10:42 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshut View Post
I would like to know how to tell Gen 1 from Gen 2 Croation magazines?
The thick metal "spine" above the actual rear locking lug will be thicker all the way up to the top on the Gen 1's (this is often true of Yugo mags as well). The Gen 2's supposedly have less material up toward the top, as it was metal in this area that was causing the fitment issues.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshut View Post
I would like to see a pic of this lug showing evidence that it is two piece.
Here you go.

This is a "Gen 1" Croatian magazine. You can see the seam between the two pieces.


Here is the same image with the two pieces shaded in red and yellow, differentiating the two parts.


For comparison, here is a Hungarian mag from What a Country, with the "plate" and the actual lug being a single piece.


Here it is, colored (for the sake of completeness).


This is a view inside the Croatian mag (looking over the front lug, toward the back wall of the mag, just below the feed lips). Many com-block mags do not have this gap in the mag body, but every Yugo-derivative seems to have this rectangular gap that is covered over by the rear lug. I have Yugo surplus mags that have it, and I just checked and confirmed that Gibbs Matra mags have it too.


Here is the same image, color-filled, to note the "lug plate" (yellow), which has two gaps cut into it. In these gaps fit two tabs (red) from the actual lug. Presumably there is a weld holding the two pieces of metal together, though I cannot visually confirm this.


Here is a side image of both lugs. The purpose is to show the difference in the taper of the "upper lug" above the part that engages the mag catch.


Here it is with the lugs color shaded.


Here it is with the lugs color shaded. Note the green area on the Croatian lug (yellow). This is the extra metal thickness that causes fitment issues in some rifles. This extra thickness contacts the cross-rivet just above the mag latch.


Here is a picture of the "Gen 2" Croatian mags at SGAmmo. It appears that they have shaved down the top end of the lug a bit more agressively, to get rid of the extra thickness that is causing fitment issues in some rifles.
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Old 08-05-2016, 12:53 PM   #19
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Unbelievable detail ksb thx for highlighting and posting. Just awesome pics!
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:04 PM   #20
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Great info and thanks for the pics. The Korean commercial use a similar technique on the inside of the magazine to attach the base plate for the lug. The top photo looks like it could be a three piece with a two piece base plate, but may just be the photo. Are the new Croatians this way, Gibbs also?
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Old 08-05-2016, 01:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshut View Post
Great info and thanks for the pics. The Korean commercial use a similar technique on the inside of the magazine to attach the base plate for the lug. The top photo looks like it could be a three piece with a two piece base plate, but may just be the photo. Are the new Croatians this way, Gibbs also?
3-Piece: I believe what you are noting is just an artifact of how the plate edge was cut/ground. The top edge has two planes to it, at very slightly different angles. Probably just a result of the tooling that stamped/cut the plate. The plate is a single layer.

I asked earlier in this thread if the new Croatian mags had a two-piece lug, and was told they do.

Gibbs Matra mags have a one-piece lug, but it isn't machined near as nicely as any surplus mag I've ever handled. Looks a little like metallic play-doh that didn't fully fill the stamped mold. The biggest problem the Gibbs Matra mags have is shoddy QC concerning their assembly. I have five of them, and the front lug on two of them is not aligned properly. They'll still insert and function in most of my rifles, but you have to take care to engage the proper lip under the misaligned lug, or it'll hang up when rocking into the mag well.
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Old 08-06-2016, 03:48 PM   #22
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Man, what a fantastic write up! Thanks for the education. I just ordered a bunch of new mags, seems like a fair deal.
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Old 08-06-2016, 05:43 PM   #23
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Now I know where to use the bench grinder if my old Croatians get to where they are hanging up. Great post. You certainly know how to make a convincing and thoughtful argument. Go to law school.
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Old 08-07-2016, 02:57 PM   #24
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I have never had a problem with any of the new production Croatian or Gibbs magazines in any of my rifles.

Am I just lucky?
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Old 08-07-2016, 03:58 PM   #25
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Quote:
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I have never had a problem with any of the new production Croatian or Gibbs magazines in any of my rifles.

Am I just lucky?
It just depends what rifles you have. A sampling of my experience.

An unmodified Gen 1 Croatian mag fits in:
Saiga SGL-21 (Arsenal, LV)
Saiga-M conversion (by Legion)
Draco pistol
VEPR

It does not fit in:
Arsenal SLR-107
WASR-10
Century AK63D

Edit: In the cases of the SLR-107 and the WASR, the top portion of the "upper lug" hits the cross-rivet located above the mag catch. In the case of the AK63D, a lower portion of the "upper lug," just a smidge above the actual lug, it hits the mag latch plate, preventing the last few millimeters of travel needed to latch in. (The mag well of the AK63D has less front-to-back clearance than my other rifles.)

Edit 2: I wanted to add one more photo demonstrating the differences of the Croatian mags. Here I have the camera lined up with the right angle of the rear lug, where it meets the back of the mag. (The second photo has a big red arrow pointing at where I've aligned the camera). Just keep spacial perspective in mind as you look at the Croatian (green) lug.

FYI - I aligned the front of the mags in these photos by laying the notch of the underside of the front lugs on a fat headless nail, laying on top of a 2x4. So what you are seeing is the true front-to-back difference of the mags.



Most rifles with fitment issues have the issue due to the large mass of extra metal toward the top of the lug (left in this photo). That extra metal hits the cross rivet. A few rifles (such as my AK63D) have issues due to the minor extra thickness in the area just to the left of the red arrow.

Last edited by ksbsnowowl; 08-07-2016 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 08-07-2016, 05:46 PM   #26
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This would be a good sticky. I think many of us have bought these mags. Mine fit well, but I only have the one rifle.
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:48 PM   #27
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I have the new "gen 2" Croatian mags.

I can confirm that the lug is 2 pieces. Otherwise, it feels sturdy and well built.

Can anyone chime in on the reliability of Croatian steel mags? (I believe the gen 2 are pretty much the same, other than that the top end was thinned out to have better fit).

I can also confirm that it fits well in a PTR 32...and that says a lot! No other steel mag will fit well in the PTR32, or at least ones that I have tried.
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:39 PM   #28
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Dude! That was awesome. Great write up and use of color.
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Old 08-10-2016, 04:47 AM   #29
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SG Hungarians are sold out appears only new Croatians left in stock..
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Old 08-10-2016, 10:16 PM   #30
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It does not take very much ' file-ing ' at all to make the gen 1 Croat mags fit most all rifles .And they don't wobble [in my guns at least-2 chinese ,1 romainian , 1 Bulgarian] .
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Old 08-12-2016, 04:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabre5G View Post
Thanks for the update. The Croatian mags look pretty but just my m92 detests them. I have another rifle that won't play with the Croat mags as well. I just forgot which one, I think my O PAP didn't like it.
UPS just showed up with mine from SG. They fit in all my rifles (Vepr, Npap, and Polish) and M92 very well. I thought it was a great deal considering they are brand new and wrapped nicely in oil for long term storage......and then OF COURSE I get an e-mail from Classic with a lower advertised price. Whatever. Thanks kbssnowowl for all the pics and info. Really helped out.

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Old 08-12-2016, 05:24 PM   #32
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PSA has them for 11.99 and free shipping if you buy 10 or more .
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:36 PM   #33
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http://palmettostatearmory.com/ak47-...ak4730stl.html
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:06 AM   #34
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Is anybody else having issues with rounds sliding forward while loading. It's really annoying. Doesn't happen in any of my other mags. Is it the BHO follower or am I doing something wrong?
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Old 08-15-2016, 02:45 PM   #35
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Great job OP!!
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