The AK Files Forums

The AK Files Forums (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/index.php)
-   SVDs and RomAK IIIs (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=19)
-   -   Tiger Carbine:Gun Broker (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322825)

Stae 10-12-2017 09:11 AM

Tiger Carbine:Gun Broker
 
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/704227884

Auction has ended.$4175

Make mine underfolded 10-12-2017 02:41 PM

Not bad.

semper-dissolubilis 10-12-2017 04:45 PM

Man I am so glad I got my Tigers early on before the price hikes!

ncreptile 10-12-2017 04:59 PM

That's actually a good price considering most are bringing $5000 now.
Thanks the two assholes on gunbroker who keep buying dragunovs for fair prices and then listing them for $9-20,000.. They control the market because they have the money to buy everything up.

Ticks me off, wanted an NDM and 2 years ago they were $3500 for a .308 and $5000-6000 for a 54r but now thanks to the few dipshits on gunbroker who buy them on there and relist them for double the price I doubt we'll see them in the fair price range again.

Big problem is not even the dipshits. It's the people who go to sell theirs, see those two dipshits prices and assume theirs is worth that and they list them.

Thank goodness nobody is buying them.

Make mine underfolded 10-12-2017 05:53 PM

^^^ This. I have seen those auctions. I have been hit up by those types as well. They try to brow-beat you down "I'm a dealer, and I'd never pay you that..." trying to get the item super cheap just to relist it 10x higher.

semper-dissolubilis 10-12-2017 07:09 PM

Simple cure- I don't ever sell them when I pick them up. Tigers or NDMs got a good collection of them these days

Rollthelosingdice 10-12-2017 07:16 PM

Saw one buy it now for $3500 not too long ago. Too much money for a rifle.

Floivanus 10-13-2017 03:09 PM

They aren't spectacular rifles in any right, artificial market due to stupid low supply.

People want to buy for the look and as a collectible. Better self loading 54R rifles out there and tons better 308 self loaders for the money. Back when AR10s were $2k and a tigr was cheaper it made sense as a shooter. Not now. Let these couple knuckleheads bid themselves out of market prices

cal50 10-13-2017 03:18 PM

People are attracted to what they cant have or hard to get.....

Fired a guys Tiger at the range when I has a PSL and not overly nuts about either to be honest.

WolfmanReid 10-14-2017 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floivanus (Post 4276650)
They aren't spectacular rifles in any right, artificial market due to stupid low supply.

People want to buy for the look and as a collectible. Better self loading 54R rifles out there and tons better 308 self loaders for the money. Back when AR10s were $2k and a tigr was cheaper it made sense as a shooter. Not now. Let these couple knuckleheads bid themselves out of market prices

Not disputing anything about what you are saying about the absurd and artificial price of the Tigr but what semi-auto in 54r is better than the SVD? I can only think of a handful in that caliber... SVT-38, SVT-40, Zastava M-91, PSL, Al-Kadesiah, Vepr are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head and Dragunov's design knocks them out of the water. The Tigr isn't a bad rifle by any means... I agree though if we could get them at European prices and availablity they'd probably be outsold by .308 ARs.

Make mine underfolded 10-14-2017 10:15 AM

Love my Tiger. I pieced together the non neutered parts over a few months. It is sleek, streamlined, and pretty capable.

ncreptile 10-14-2017 01:42 PM

Comparing the PSL to the Dragunov is like comparing a Lambo to a Mustang GT. Both are awesome cars, but one is much higher quality thoroughbred.

I own both. So this opinion comes from that experience.

Sabre5G 10-14-2017 02:10 PM

I was really sad when Military got shitcanned through sanctions. Under Trump. Get any import you may regret not getting while you can.

Floivanus 10-15-2017 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfmanReid (Post 4277685)
Not disputing anything about what you are saying about the absurd and artificial price of the Tigr but what semi-auto in 54r is better than the SVD? I can only think of a handful in that caliber... SVT-38, SVT-40, Zastava M-91, PSL, Al-Kadesiah, Vepr are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head and Dragunov's design knocks them out of the water. The Tigr isn't a bad rifle by any means... I agree though if we could get them at European prices and availablity they'd probably be outsold by .308 ARs.

I have to agree on the 54r. I would have to say better offerings as 'shooters' for the cost.

I would love to see someone either create a line of SVD clones, or import, thru whatever means a decent quantity of kits and whip up receivers but I do not see that happening at least in the foreseeable future. Heck I would like to see an Al kadesiah clone to at least get something closer for the US market

hakentt 10-15-2017 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncreptile (Post 4277928)
Comparing the PSL to the Dragunov is like comparing a Lambo to a Mustang GT. Both are awesome cars, but one is much higher quality thoroughbred.

I own both. So this opinion comes from that experience.

I disagree. People who own SVD tend to praise that rifle more than others just because of it's resale value. Even the Soviet field manual for SVD says that rifle has acceptable accuracy if it shoots a 8cm group at 100m. That is 3 inch group, that is horrible even for DMR. Even Dragunov admitted he was not allowed to make more accurate rifle because soviet army demanded it had to be lightweight.

Believe it or not Ford Mustang is built from higher quality materials that Lamborghini, cheap Italian plastics and fine Italian leather does not do well when car is left in the sun for long.

ncreptile 10-15-2017 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4279399)
I disagree. People who own SVD tend to praise that rifle more than others just because of it's resale value. Even the Soviet field manual for SVD says that rifle has acceptable accuracy if it shoots a 8cm group at 100m. That is 3 inch group, that is horrible even for DMR. Even Dragunov admitted he was not allowed to make more accurate rifle because soviet army demanded it had to be lightweight.

Believe it or not Ford Mustang is built from higher quality materials that Lamborghini, cheap Italian plastics and fine Italian leather does not do well when car is left in the sun for long.

You are one weird person..

I'm guessing you do not own a Dragunov or have held one. The quality difference is apparent. I did not bring up accuracy but I guess you had to try and make them seem like equals somehow.

The only people that seem to try and say the PSL is the same as a dragunov are the people butthurt they cannot afford the latter is seems.

You completely lost me on your car retort.

specz79 10-15-2017 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4279399)
I disagree. People who own SVD tend to praise that rifle more than others just because of it's resale value. Even the Soviet field manual for SVD says that rifle has acceptable accuracy if it shoots a 8cm group at 100m. That is 3 inch group, that is horrible even for DMR. Even Dragunov admitted he was not allowed to make more accurate rifle because soviet army demanded it had to be lightweight.

Believe it or not Ford Mustang is built from higher quality materials that Lamborghini, cheap Italian plastics and fine Italian leather does not do well when car is left in the sun for long.

I disagree, I own both and my PSL is a "tack driver" as far as PSL's go. My SVD, night and day above the PSL. It is a far superior rifle

FullAssault 10-15-2017 09:45 PM

I’ve owned both, the Dragunov is definitely superior to the PSL. I’ve owned many rifles over the years but very few completely amaze me. the Dragunov does. This has nothing to do with the price and everything to do with performances. Just like my SCAR it’s way more accurate than should be and it amazes me every time I pull the trigger. My PSL was a good rifle but it just wasn’t as good as my Tigr


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/650...923/iXQIxt.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/950...924/Osshkr.jpg

Rollthelosingdice 10-16-2017 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4279399)
I disagree. People who own SVD tend to praise that rifle more than others just because of it's resale value. Even the Soviet field manual for SVD says that rifle has acceptable accuracy if it shoots a 8cm group at 100m. That is 3 inch group, that is horrible even for DMR. Even Dragunov admitted he was not allowed to make more accurate rifle because soviet army demanded it had to be lightweight.

Believe it or not Ford Mustang is built from higher quality materials that Lamborghini, cheap Italian plastics and fine Italian leather does not do well when car is left in the sun for long.

If you ever have shot a dragunov, it is much higher quality than a PSL. It can also shoot heavy ball ammo offering more selection. The rifle is capable of MOA or below depending on the shooters skill and the ammunition quality.

hakentt 10-16-2017 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullAssault (Post 4279836)
Iíve owned both, the Dragunov is definitely superior to the PSL.

Superior in a sense of elegance and build quality but in accuracy it is not superior. Both rifles are about 2MOA at best in ideal conditions, so I would argue they are about the same.

FullAssault 10-16-2017 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4280648)
Superior in a sense of elegance and build quality but in accuracy it is not superior. Both rifles are about 2MOA at best in ideal conditions, so I would argue they are about the same.

My Dragunov shoots around 1Ē, my PSL around 3Ē.... my Dragunov doesnít string, my PSL will. My Dragunov is a much better shooter in all areas

dvs 10-16-2017 05:05 PM

Ive had one for 17 years and only about 1800 rounds down the pipe..love it..every time I think of selling it to fund another project I hold it for 30 seconds and smell the wood and back in the safe she goes...

hakentt 10-16-2017 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullAssault (Post 4280738)
My Dragunov shoots around 1Ē, my PSL around 3Ē.... my Dragunov doesnít string, my PSL will. My Dragunov is a much better shooter in all areas

PSL that is imported in USA was made out of left over parts and never tested for any sort of consistency by the factory. I would argue that CIGUR sent the good ones to Iraq and ones that had poor consistency were sold to Century Arms.
There are few videos on Youtube where respected people put both to the test and PSL did very close to what SVD was doing.

ncreptile 10-16-2017 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4280648)
Superior in a sense of elegance and build quality but in accuracy it is not superior. Both rifles are about 2MOA at best in ideal conditions, so I would argue they are about the same.

A trailer compared to a $2,000,000 home does the same thing. Which would you like to live in?

semper-dissolubilis 10-16-2017 08:30 PM

I have both PSL's and Tigers-

One of my PSL's holds just over 1 MOA (I bought it new) the other about 1.4-1.5 MOA @100y.

One of My tigers holds about 1 MOA while the other holds 1.25 MOA @100y.

Both are adequate for what they are supposed to be for.

The SVD seems to be slightly more accurate but it just depends I guess.

Both string a lot when you fire at a fairly quick cadence.

I think the SVD might be slightly superior to the PSL myself in performance. But the SVD definitely has the looks.

They both have the same max accuracy requirement of 8cm @ 100m

FullAssault 10-16-2017 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4280893)
PSL that is imported in USA was made out of left over parts and never tested for any sort of consistency by the factory. I would argue that CIGUR sent the good ones to Iraq and ones that had poor consistency were sold to Century Arms.
There are few videos on Youtube where respected people put both to the test and PSL did very close to what SVD was doing.

My PSL was all matching numbers and all the parts where in excellent condition. I’ve fired around 7 PSLs over the years none did better than 2” several of my friends fired PSLs in Iraq and said they were no better. Like I’ve said I’ve owned both and fired both. Please elaborate on your personal experience with both the PSL and SVD? I’m assuming you have 1st Hand military experience with both or perhaps you own both?

Bandy 10-17-2017 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncreptile (Post 4281152)
A trailer compared to a $2,000,000 home does the same thing. Which would you like to live in?

Well a trailer is what $15-30k so I'd still have $1.9 mill. Then I'd buy a Dragunov......or two.:small_gri

Hilljack 10-18-2017 12:13 AM

Yeah PSL / Tigr pissing contest. :tongue_sm

Had two PSls, best they could shoot was around 4moa.

My Tigr would do about 2.5moa with the same ammo. Handloading, it would do around 1.25moa .

Wish I could have found one of those 1moa PSLs, but I didn't. Gave up on them.

Brazos762 10-19-2017 07:34 PM

I dig my PSL - might not so much if I wasn't sitting on so much cheap (back in the day)7.62 x 54R Ball.
The $500.00 price was right and it is a blast to shoot (2-3moa @ 100yds)and groups just like my SAKO Finnish M39 w/o glass.
Never had any function issues and would probably shoot even better with good ammo or handloads.

I want an SVD but the likelihood of this is slim thanks to TPTB.

I hate seeing those photos of tracked APC's running over piles of SVD's in Iraq.

hakentt 10-21-2017 01:27 PM

Military arms channel on youtube did a SVD vs. PSL accuracy test, same ammo. PSL did (1 5/8) and SVD did (1 3/8).

FullAssault 10-21-2017 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4288174)
Military arms channel on youtube did a SVD vs. PSL accuracy test, same ammo. PSL did (1 5/8) and SVD did (1 3/8).

So your only experience with both rifles is a YouTube video?

Floivanus 10-21-2017 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullAssault (Post 4288819)
So your only experience with both rifles is a YouTube video?

Not to mention tims svd is actually an chinese clone, so who knows how the accuracy compares (fantastic, nearly perfect rifle tho, I've handled it personally) it is only a sample size of 1, no way representative of ALL SVDs, ALL PSLs and ALL VEPR rifles.

The only way a true non bias test really could be conducted is if multiple PSLs, multiple SVDs, multiple VEPRs were assembled with a few different types of ammo as well. If anyone wants to volunteer the guns, I'll do a comprehensive test with 5 shot groups.

tacogewehr 10-22-2017 11:26 PM

The left over parts thing is questionable unless you have proof, the Iraq guns were most likely never touched prior to surplusing as that would add cost, the images I have with the resolution to tell generally show a third hole. The US guns only had to be rebuilt on new receivers because they had third holes for safety sears making them machine guns due to the ATF's absurd regulations.

Having shot a Tiger and owning a PSL, the Tiger is above the PSL. It's smoother shooting, has a better trigger, and is a much more consistent gun especially as it heats up. I don't think I'd pay $4k for one but that isn't a bad price for the person who bought it.

On paper, for five shots a PSL may be close but it's not an SVD and the difference becomes apparent the longer the strings are. Not to say the SVD is worth thousands more or the PSL isn't worth what they sell for, but is what it is. I don't try to justify the PSL into being something it isn't which is partially why I think they don't have a great reputation in some circles, it's like people who try to argue their V6 Mustang is just as good as a 5.0.

hakentt 10-23-2017 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floivanus (Post 4288987)
Not to mention tims svd is actually an chinese clone, so who knows how the accuracy compares .

Some argue that china didn't make the ones in 54r, they got it from Soviets.

Quote:

So your only experience with both rifles is a YouTube video?
Irrelevant what 'my' experience is, I am just stating the known facts

FullAssault 10-23-2017 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hakentt (Post 4290564)
Some argue that china didn't make the ones in 54r, they got it from Soviets. If you had any real experience you would know the difference between the two. Do a little more research beyond the hearsay

Irrelevant what 'my' experience is, I am just stating the known facts

Actually thatís just it,itís completely & totally relevant. you donít actually know the facts unless you have real experience. MAC makes good videos but is hardly the end all of every discussion. Tim gets things wrong occasionally (heíll tell you that himself) so donít take everything you watch as gospel until you can verify it yourself. Regardless I and pretty much everyone else on here with thousands of rounds behind these guns are all telling you the same thing for a reason. We have 1st hand experience.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:57 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles