The AK Files Forums

The AK Files Forums (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/index.php)
-   Survival and Preparedness (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=45)
-   -   Affordable Vehicles That Can Survive an EMP (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330509)

Black Blade 01-01-2018 03:42 AM

Affordable Vehicles That Can Survive an EMP
 
Affordable Vehicles That Can Survive an EMP

Option 1: 1979 Jeep CJ5 44

http://www.askaprepper.com/wp-conten...ep-CJ5-4x4.jpg

Continued: http://www.askaprepper.com/affordabl...n-survive-emp/

Black Blade: Some interesting choices ... I like the Jeep but some others seem quite practical as well.

My old 1976 CJ-7 works for me:

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/b57...8314d2e1_r.jpg

Fortis 01-01-2018 03:58 AM

I have a fondness for late 70's Toyota Landcruisers but they're definitely not in the more affordable range. I've always liked early Broncos though as well.

Lone Eagle 01-01-2018 04:57 AM

Another reason I love my '93 F-150 with the inline 6. I picked up the traditional carburetor intake, and a points-and-condenser distributor. I can swap them out in less than an hour, and be back on the road if need be.

One theory on the older EFI vehicles is to run a chain from the body to the ground. My EEC-IV computer is in a thick aluminum case with 3 ground wires to the body. GM and Chrysler used plastic casings. The aluminum casing supposedly provides better EMP protection than plastic.

raggedwhole! 01-01-2018 06:01 AM

Theory is just theory. I am no hardcore prepper but a two stroke dirtbike will suffice if an event occurs, beats nothing, low fuel consumption and the powerband of a 500cc 2 stroke is quite fun even if the world may be descending into utter chaos around you. It should buy you at least some time to formulate another plan for transportation and address other pressing needs that may arise. An older jeep is awesome anyways though. Hard to go wrong there.

raggedwhole! 01-01-2018 06:09 AM

Volkswagen ILTIS is a great option. No ignition, fully mechanical diesel injection. Very basic electric system. Locking diffs, excellent ride height. Simple and effective. Damn near indestructible and easy to work on.

Shaggy 01-01-2018 07:03 AM

1974 falcon XB would fit the bill

SAIGA 5.45 01-01-2018 07:37 AM

Doesn't need to be an old car unless you were driving
It.

https://www.lifewire.com/would-your-...attack-3903248

Quote:

The study subjected vehicles to simulated EMP attacks both while shut off and while running, and it found that none of the vehicles suffered any ill effects if the attack occurred while the engine was off. When the attack occurred while the vehicles were running, some of them shut off, while others suffered other effects like erroneously blinking dash lights.
And even then the car would start back up and run.

Sounds like many of you take Hollywood movies as science.


You are better off buying fuel and parts for your current vehicles than buying a whole other one.


Granted any reason to buy and old K5, CJ and things of that sort isn't a bad thing but EMP ain't one of them.

frankxtc 01-01-2018 09:06 AM

I have a 1985 Mercedes Diesel, simple, completely mechanical fuel supply and injection.
No computer, sensors, very basic and easy to fix and find parts for.

giantpune 01-01-2018 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankxtc (Post 4395372)
I have a 1985 Mercedes Diesel, simple, completely mechanical fuel supply and injection.
No computer, sensors, very basic and easy to fix and find parts for.

And when everything goes to shit and we run out of dinosaur fuel, it'll run on used french fry oil.

Shadow Walker 01-01-2018 11:20 AM

Those of you with metal garages and metal covers, turn them into Faraday cages to prevent EMP from turning your vehicle into a useless machine.

Heck, you are already half (or more) there, just finish up the process.

XSAPPER 01-01-2018 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Blade (Post 4395284)
Affordable Vehicles That Can Survive an EMP

Option 1: 1979 Jeep CJ5 44

http://www.askaprepper.com/wp-conten...ep-CJ5-4x4.jpg
]

That's a 71 or older CJ5 with the 81" wheelbase.

Sledge303 01-01-2018 02:28 PM

My experience with the CJ series doesn't bring the term "affordable" to mind!
J(ust)
E(mpty)
E(very)
P(ocket)

Aceshigh 01-01-2018 02:46 PM

Alot of clearly identified speculation in this article.
Nothing based on fact guys.....

Depends on the size of the EMP, but all wires act as receivers to the blast and your
ignition system is toast unless it is points ignition iirc, but the starter solenoids will
be fried also. No start....no go

Vehicle would need to be in a faraday cage

giantpune 01-01-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceshigh (Post 4395755)
Alot of clearly identified speculation in this article.
Nothing based on fact guys.....

Depends on the size of the EMP, but all wires act as receivers to the blast and your
ignition system is toast unless it is points ignition iirc, but the starter solenoids will
be fried also. No start....no go

Vehicle would need to be in a faraday cage

Stick shift doesn't need a starter or starter solenoid. All you need is a little hill to roll down and somebody to give you a push while you hold the clutch in.

chknfkr 01-01-2018 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAIGA 5.45 (Post 4395346)
Doesn't need to be an old car unless you were driving
It.

https://www.lifewire.com/would-your-...attack-3903248



And even then the car would start back up and run.

Sounds like many of you take Hollywood movies as science.


You are better off buying fuel and parts for your current vehicles than buying a whole other one.


Granted any reason to buy and old K5, CJ and things of that sort isn't a bad thing but EMP ain't one of them.

Been saying this for years.

Everything electrical/electronic boils down to conductors and insulators. An emp doesn't make a conductor stop conducting. An emp doesn't make an insulator stop insulating.

A momentary signal disruption, and possible surge depending on intensity, and proximity to the emp are all to be expected. That surge may present a problem to unprotected circuits, but most systems today would be back online with the flip of a breaker or replaced fuse.

Copper will still be copper after an emp.

def90 01-01-2018 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceshigh (Post 4395755)
Vehicle would need to be in a faraday cage

A car itself is pretty much a faraday cage..

Here's me and my post apocalyptic emp attack mode of transportation.. riding above tree line at 10,000+ft.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/mf...A=w682-h637-no

Old Sarge 01-01-2018 04:52 PM

Several years ago I saw an article in a magazine. They were in some South American Country and running around in a Toyota 4x4 crew cab with a 6' bed on it, powered by a diesel engine. I have wanted one ever sense.

Old Sarge

bill3542 01-01-2018 05:44 PM

I keep a 1976 ex-military M880 Dodge Power Wagon 3/4 ton 4x4 pickup handy along with a box of spare electrical parts.

Easy to fix, you can change a alternator in 10 minutes and no pollution bullshit. not easy on gas but I can throw 3000 pounds on the old girl with no issues.

jmano 01-01-2018 08:28 PM

I kind of figure that is cars do go down in an EMP and you happen to have one running, it'll probably be the greatest bullet magnet ever invented.

Larryphoto 01-01-2018 10:41 PM

Mountain Bike, no electric parts only fuel needed is fat when you petal it.

KernelKrink 01-02-2018 01:39 PM

I'm not too worried about EMP and vehicles. The body will keep most of the EMP out of the electrics anyway. Basically all the wire and other conductors act like a transformer secondary coil of sorts, the damage happens when the current produced burns out delicate electronic components or small thin wires like in solenoids. Sorta like plugging in a 110 volt appliance into 220. It could work fine for a few seconds (longer than the EMP lasts) or it could immediately fry.

The solution is to have a vehicle with a carb and mechanical fuel pump instead of injection, and a spare alternator and ignition. In the case of a Chevy, an alt, starter solenoid, and a complete HEI unit, stored in closed ammo boxes, will likely be all you need to get on the road again. Spares you should have anyway if expecting to keep it on the road even in normal times. Non-electronic trans too, the ones made past the late 80s are run off solenoids.

wil 01-02-2018 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aceshigh (Post 4395755)
Alot of clearly identified speculation in this article.
Nothing based on fact guys.....

Depends on the size of the EMP, but all wires act as receivers to the blast and your
ignition system is toast unless it is points ignition iirc, but the starter solenoids will
be fried also. No start....no go

Vehicle would need to be in a faraday cage

why would a starter solenoid be wiped out and not the ignition ?

Sigiloso 01-02-2018 03:30 PM


PermaAK 01-02-2018 08:03 PM

Baja Bug.

Lane_H 01-02-2018 09:08 PM

spare ECU from parts yard tucked away with spare relays/fuses etc inside of a pac-man metal lunch box..

:)

TheBohunk 01-03-2018 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lone Eagle (Post 4395311)
Another reason I love my '93 F-150 with the inline 6. I picked up the traditional carburetor intake, and a points-and-condenser distributor. I can swap them out in less than an hour, and be back on the road if need be.

One theory on the older EFI vehicles is to run a chain from the body to the ground. My EEC-IV computer is in a thick aluminum case with 3 ground wires to the body. GM and Chrysler used plastic casings. The aluminum casing supposedly provides better EMP protection than plastic.

Or keep a CPU inside a small farraday cage somewhere.

I've got several older vehicles but all are converted to electronic ignition. To overcome the EMP problem, that's what I did. Store several ignition boxes in a farraday.

Returned 01-03-2018 11:15 AM

Any EMP strong enough to fry (damage) integrated circuits of the modern era (vs say of the 80s where they were indeed quite sensitive), will in fact, microwave the human. You cease to have to worry about a running vehicle at that point because you are cooked meat for some after-bomber to nom on.

Seriously EMP is a bogeyman, and a fake one. There are very real threats from EMP, mostly grid failure. Mainly because the Power Grid is horribly overloaded as is AND it is mostly made of up very old and often borderline functional components. The transformers and switching used in large scale power distribution is extremely expensive and often only manufactured over-seas now. They don't replace them until they break. So some folks have transformers that are 40-50 years old.

Also the damage an EMP does is scaled with the size of the antenna and that means that the power grid is ONE GIANT ANTENNA. It takes the full brunt of it. A small IC with limited antenna length can only take in so much energy from the general field effect. This goes for cars as well. Most cars DO qualify as a cage. The engine bay and computer components are often in sealed metal areas which will reduce the strength of the field they are exposed to.

Its been tested. Most of the EMP Scare is based on very, very, very old government declassified test data. Modern data and experimentation suggest otherwise. So, by all means, freak out. Just learn physics first and then run the calculations for energy density and see that any field capable of damaging (burning out something as tough as a starter) represents enough field energy density that it would be the same as putting yourself in a giant microwave oven and turning it on. You'd be dead anyways, plus any bomb capable of generating a field strength of that magnitude would also generally be larger than the TSAR Bomba, which, afterwards, you don't have to worry about EMP any more either.

Solar Flare threat is to the giant antenna's and old equipment of the grid as well as orbital sats, any flare strong enough to put ground level electronics in jeopardy would also wipe out life on earth from the radiation effects. So yeah.

EMP, fun story, in real life, lol, like all things, not the scary box monster that you thought it was. But, by all means, indulge fantasy and spend money, it helps the economy.

akenthusiast1 01-03-2018 11:23 AM

any 4x4 with lock in hubs/manual transfer case mated to the manual transmission conjoined with a 4bt would be my choice. just need to own property with a big ass hill and have it parked on top. lol

Aceshigh 01-03-2018 11:48 AM

This was on Future Weapons 12 years ago

For those whom truly believe that a vehicle is truly a faraday cage, will learn it is not.
Then this 90s Gen2 Taurus would not died.....and been unable to start after the EMP.
For those in the country ya really got very little to worry about unless its blown in the atmosphere.
City people have bigger concerns as those are primary targets.

Take from it what you will, but every wire in a vehicle acts as a receptor to the EMP
And it travels to mainboards and circuits will fry. Not 100% of them, but clearly this is how it works.
Vehicles electronics have gotten alot more involved since 25 years ago ehen this car was made


frankxtc 01-03-2018 12:16 PM

Good points about the national power grid.
After the recent hurricane here, being without power for a few days or weeks (neighbors were down for 3 weeks), not sure if having a drivable vehicle would have been much value after a month or more.
Major damage to the entire power grid: no one has the parts in stock for that much repair & replace, would have to be manufactured from scratch. grid down for years in most places….

Aceshigh 01-03-2018 12:38 PM

^ Stated by the NSA's Admiral chief in 2016.

NSA chief says 'when, not if' foreign country hacks U.S. infrastructure

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN0W35M8

Anyone remember the 2003 "Great Blackout" along the entire NE seaboard up into Canada ???
New York City NYC evacuation pictures shown a calm situation, but you know they were not calm......they were refugee's for just a day.
http://aemstatic-ww2.azureedge.net/c...te%20image.png

Rev06 01-03-2018 04:39 PM

Great thread BB and contributors. If anyone knows ballpark prices on any of these puppies I would love to get a sense as to how much one of these might set you back.

Gribble 01-03-2018 06:01 PM

I have a 1991 K5. It's got HEI and TBI (fuel injection), so not quite the same as the article. I paid $1500 for mine, but it has sheetmetal that needs to be replaced. It is kind of low-option, which was what I wanted. They usually sell for much more than that, but mine needs at least $2500 of sheetmetal work done to it.

Since I've had it (3 years), I have only done regular maintenance to it and other things an old vehicle will need (I replaced all the seals on the transfer case in November).

I will probably be selling it as I have a full size pickup that works better for my needs (rental properties), and I have too many other vehicles.

jwag74 01-03-2018 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Returned (Post 4398320)
Any EMP strong enough to fry (damage) integrated circuits of the modern era (vs say of the 80s where they were indeed quite sensitive), will in fact, microwave the human. You cease to have to worry about a running vehicle at that point because you are cooked meat for some after-bomber to nom on.

Seriously EMP is a bogeyman, and a fake one. There are very real threats from EMP, mostly grid failure. Mainly because the Power Grid is horribly overloaded as is AND it is mostly made of up very old and often borderline functional components. The transformers and switching used in large scale power distribution is extremely expensive and often only manufactured over-seas now. They don't replace them until they break. So some folks have transformers that are 40-50 years old.

Also the damage an EMP does is scaled with the size of the antenna and that means that the power grid is ONE GIANT ANTENNA. It takes the full brunt of it. A small IC with limited antenna length can only take in so much energy from the general field effect. This goes for cars as well. Most cars DO qualify as a cage. The engine bay and computer components are often in sealed metal areas which will reduce the strength of the field they are exposed to.

Its been tested. Most of the EMP Scare is based on very, very, very old government declassified test data. Modern data and experimentation suggest otherwise. So, by all means, freak out. Just learn physics first and then run the calculations for energy density and see that any field capable of damaging (burning out something as tough as a starter) represents enough field energy density that it would be the same as putting yourself in a giant microwave oven and turning it on. You'd be dead anyways, plus any bomb capable of generating a field strength of that magnitude would also generally be larger than the TSAR Bomba, which, afterwards, you don't have to worry about EMP any more either.

Solar Flare threat is to the giant antenna's and old equipment of the grid as well as orbital sats, any flare strong enough to put ground level electronics in jeopardy would also wipe out life on earth from the radiation effects. So yeah.

EMP, fun story, in real life, lol, like all things, not the scary box monster that you thought it was. But, by all means, indulge fantasy and spend money, it helps the economy.

This.....the main threat from an EMP is power grid failure. So unless your vehicle prep includes a shit ton of fuel you're screwed anyway.

Rev06 01-03-2018 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gribble (Post 4399047)
I have a 1991 K5. It's got HEI and TBI (fuel injection), so not quite the same as the article. I paid $1500 for mine, but it has sheetmetal that needs to be replaced. It is kind of low-option, which was what I wanted. They usually sell for much more than that, but mine needs at least $2500 of sheetmetal work done to it.

Since I've had it (3 years), I have only done regular maintenance to it and other things an old vehicle will need (I replaced all the seals on the transfer case in November).

I will probably be selling it as I have a full size pickup that works better for my needs (rental properties), and I have too many other vehicles.


Thanks for the numbers man. That's actually not too bad even w the repairs. Although if you saved it for SHTF you wouldn't have to worry about state inspection lol. That's a lot of sheet metal btw.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:12 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©1998-2018 The AK FIles