WROL and the military

[XinTX]

Discussed a bit in this thread:
Something isn't quite right (http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=837342#post837342)

Brought up the fact that those pushing for a major economic crash (Soros, et al) aren't the 'gambling' type. They have a plan on what to do afterward. So I've been stuck on what happens with the military. I would hope that enough of them would remember and honor their oath to defend the Constitution, NOT the POTUS or whatever 'Leader' happens to want to take command. But given that these folks don't gamble, I think they have some sort of plan. In the US, one couldn't simply grab the reigns of power and say "I'm in charge here". The military would HAVE TO support that. And Soros and company probably have already planned for that. I'm just not seeing how it would work. Then again, I'm not smart enough to collapse several world currencies and not have one of those nations stop me from breathing for having done so.

So, how might these folks who want to 'rule' in a post-collapse world get around the issue of the US military? Ideas?

[lsmurphy]

I have addressed this, in detail. I am not popular with the mil types round here.

They are BLIND patriots and have been misled.

It's a crap shoot.

They current mil in my opinion are not to be trusted to stand up against the PTB.

Blind.

[lsmurphy]

BTW the Ron Paul supporters are just as blind.

The truth is somewhere in the middle.

[demon_seed]

I think thats why they are militarizing our leo's with assault weapons,armored transport and strike vehicles,and the like. Beyond that it will be interpol and all the blue helmets.If it gets to that point all the pussies better get off their asses and take up the cause.

[Cy4ka]

I think that, just as it is now, the person/people actually calling the shots will remain hidden from view.

[Va_AK]

Not all of us I'm sure Murph

[Zaplatus]

Not all of us I'm sure Murph
Dude, your wasting your breath. He lives in his world, we live in ours. Murphy seems to be good people, he's firm in his beliefs, but trying to tell him other than what he "knows" is futile. Accpet him for what he is.

Those poeple who did not serve would never understand anyhow.. It's all good. Its not how we got here. It's what we do from here out.

[Zaplatus]

I think thats why they are militarizing our leo's with assault weapons,armored transport and strike vehicles,and the like. Beyond that it will be interpol and all the blue helmets.If it gets to that point all the pussies better get off their asses and take up the cause.
Fox news had a article today about a TX swat team who spent their DHS money on getting a Rotory wing UAV capable of tasering, incapacitating via launched Batton or Killing using a grenade.

Yeah, to protect US from terrorist...

[drjarhead]

Fox news had a article today about a TX swat team who spent their DHS money on getting a Rotory wing UAV capable of tasering, incapacitating via launched Batton or Killing using a grenade.

Yeah, to protect US from terrorist...
Like the War on Drugs, the War on Terror has allowed us to be stripped of even more freedom with still more to come.

[mmckown]

I don't have a problem with questioning where the military will stand. I do have a problem with those that make wide stripe comments disparaging service members and their service.

My guess is the US Military is the biggest question mark out there, and probably the main reason those "in charge" haven't made "the move" yet.

I wouldn't trust a Flag grade officer farther than I would spit. You just don't make it that far without being a major politician. There are exceptions, but not many. The real question mark is, believe it or not, mid grade officers and the NCO corps. These people are not dummies, they do not, as a whole, like what they see in our society, and they take their oaths extremely seriously.

[drjarhead]

I don't have a problem with questioning where the military will stand. I do have a problem with those that make wide stripe comments disparaging service members and their service.
Agreed.
My concern, being older and wiser than the 17 year old who took the oath believing in his govt, is that one follows orders of those who are not on the side of freedom, nor the longterm best interests of the American People.



My guess is the US Military is the biggest question mark out there, and probably the main reason those "in charge" haven't made "the move" yet.

And why all the effort to remake the military in the bizarre leftwing, fasco-socialist image.

I wouldn't trust a Flag grade officer farther than I would spit. You just don't make it that far without being a major politician. There are exceptions, but not many. The real question mark is, believe it or not, mid grade officers and the NCO corps. These people are not dummies, they do not, as a whole, like what they see in our society, and they take their oaths extremely seriously.
Total agreement.

But there are a lot of Generals out there.
How many do we need for the NCO and officer corps to rally around?

I'm thinking not too many.

I hope....

As you point out however, there are a lot of company and battalion commanders who might just do surprising things once they figure out we aren't all child molesters, drug kingpins and domestic terrorists. They are intelligent men by and large. At least that is my experience. I think they will catch on quickly once the SHTF. Soon enough for me to survive it? Or many of us? Not sure.
I have no doubt that they will hit as many of us as fast as they can using every unit they can. Just a matter of prioritizing. Pretty much like Hue during Tet. That's the way I see it.
What we have left at that point will determine much.

In 10 years though?
The military isn't looking good.

[XinTX]

But the question I have is, if Soros and his minions already have a plan, what could it be? I'm still wrestling with that. Because they're not going to throw the switch on their plan until they KNOW they have the military. As was mentioned in the other thread, nukes change everything. So if there were a nuke/EMP/dirty bomb attack, could that be used to initiate martial law WITH the support of the military? But how long would that hold?

[drjarhead]

But the question I have is, if Soros and his minions already have a plan, what could it be? I'm still wrestling with that. Because they're not going to throw the switch on their plan until they KNOW they have the military. As was mentioned in the other thread, nukes change everything. So if there were a nuke/EMP/dirty bomb attack, could that be used to initiate martial law WITH the support of the military? But how long would that hold?
I don't talk about it much but I have always had a nagging suspicion that our own nukes might be used within the CONUS.

Also, considering the problem with the US military errantly using chicom microchips one must also consider that many of our weapons could be disabled in lieu of an attack.

Soros Of course, would be in another country at the time.

The useful idiots, including the one currently in the ofal office, would almost certainly call for foreign military assistance.

This would lead to balkanization of the US, at least initially.

A helluva lot depends on our Navy, I will tell you that right now. Nobody gets at us without using the seas. Whose side? How many?

Day one: They round up as many of us trouble makers as they can. This intimidates the remaining sheeple and strips us of any knowledge and leadership. Fortunately, this is a whole lot of people. They will go after as many of the big fish as they can initially. By that, I don't much mean the militias. They are so heavily infiltrated that most of them will probably be next to useless, or worse.

I expect that prior to this they will move military folks around to make it easy to separate those who might pose a threat. This makes them easy targets, even in the event they are not all shipped overseas.


Ya know, maybe Soros enjoyed and misses the Holocaust.
He just intends to turn it on white, hetero males.
The saddest part of that is how many of our own women have turned on us. Without them, they would have had no chance.

I've got to give this some more thought though.
I am planning on going for a long run today. I do a lot of my 'deep' thinking then.

You know, when my brain is starved of oxygen. lol

[maxhush]

Ya know, maybe Soros enjoyed and misses the Holocaust.
I've been wondering when he'll show up on the new Military Channel series "Nazi Collaborators". (It'd be a hoot, and a public service, if MC did that, but it'll never happen).

[XinTX]

So perhaps one of our own nukes gets let go on US soil. Then it's blamed on some "right wingers" exploiting a weakness in the ChiCom chips. So now those on the right are instant 'targets'. And the gub-mint now claims a responsibility to interdict ALL electronic communications due to any theorized weakness in the Chinese chipsets (which are in basically EVERYTHING now).

But my question is always, "What then?" I see that in such confusion a "Leader" could take charge. But could they hold power long-term in abeyance of the Constitution. If the military said "No, we MUST hold scheduled elections etc." then the game would be up. The other side has though this through. I just don't see a way past this. I know I'm missing something painfully obvious here. It's like something buzzing around I can't quite grasp.

[Va_AK]

Dude, your wasting your breath. He lives in his world, we live in ours. Murphy seems to be good people, he's firm in his beliefs, but trying to tell him other than what he "knows" is futile. Accpet him for what he is.

Those poeple who did not serve would never understand anyhow.. It's all good. Its not how we got here. It's what we do from here out.

I know I won't change his mind. And I also know that a vast majority of the mil will just play along with whatever plan the gubbmint has.

[Beryl]

BTW the Ron Paul supporters are just as blind.


No, the blind ones are those who continually support candidates who blatantly thumb their noses at the Constitution.

All Ron Paul does is follow the Constitution. That's it. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If Rick Perry or Mitt Romney did it, I would be all for them, but they don't.

BTW, the Constitution is about more than owning guns, worshipping how you want, or free speech. Much more.

[Shadow Walker]

Remember the old days when the heads of state in Russia changed, quite often Russia Generals had heart attacks, car wrecks, airplane crashes, and etc within just a few days of each other.

Something similar might happen here as well. Perhaps a couple of big jets flying Generals to a meeting in Washington, perhaps colliding together or blown up by "rightwing" terrorists. That could take out a few hundred Generals at one whack. Then a smattering of heart attacks at this news, followed by a few car wrecks as each General rushed to his command. Then there would naturally be a few suicides by those Generals who just couldn't take the news of such a huge loss of "friends".

Of course, all the Liberal Generals would survive these tragedies, by some fluke.

When the lost of all these top Generals, the UN would have to be called in to maintain control of the country. Perhaps with the help of military personnel, even military units, who would swear allegiance to the UN. Then there is all the U.S. military equipment that would be turned over to the UN personnel.

Imagine what UN troops could do with Abrams tanks, helicopters, and all the other equipment that is on hand at every military installation.

[XSAPPER]

One thing to consider about the military is that most recruits are from middle class families. But socialism started taking over the military many years ago, so MOST with many years of service and rank have been indoctrinated. Like someone else said you don't get to General bucking the system. IMO a lot will follow orders at first, but some will disobey or desert and more will when they understand what is going on.

[Burnout]

No, the blind ones are those who continually support candidates who blatantly thumb their noses at the Constitution.

All Ron Paul does is follow the Constitution. That's it. Why is that so hard for people to understand? If Rick Perry or Mitt Romney did it, I would be all for them, but they don't.

BTW, the Constitution is about more than owning guns, worshipping how you want, or free speech. Much more.

+1

It isn't even about Paul, he's just the messenger. It's about having a Constitutional government. The blind, dangerous people IMO are the ones who keep playing the game. But hey the former fed chairman will get the money and corruption out of politics right? lol.

[ValHalla211]

A helluva lot depends on our Navy, I will tell you that right now. Nobody gets at us without using the seas. Whose side? How many?

Day one: They round up as many of us trouble makers as they can. This intimidates the remaining sheeple and strips us of any knowledge and leadership. Fortunately, this is a whole lot of people. They will go after as many of the big fish as they can initially. By that, I don't much mean the militias. They are so heavily infiltrated that most of them will probably be next to useless, or worse.

I expect that prior to this they will move military folks around to make it easy to separate those who might pose a threat. This makes them easy targets, even in the event they are not all shipped overseas.


Ya know, maybe Soros enjoyed and misses the Holocaust.
He just intends to turn it on white, hetero males.
The saddest part of that is how many of our own women have turned on us. Without them, they would have had no chance.

A lot of great points here Doc.

I would add about the Navy. If they defect... do they bring their ships? If they do.... how on earth would they keep them stocked up on munitions, food, and fuel? I think it would be ineffectual. IMHO we will be left wide open to whoever the PTB wanted in during this kind of calamity.

About the round ups. You're spot on... they will probably start these slightly before any announcement, if any is given, or as they are making the announcement. On Nov. 9th they will be "testing" their total control of every organ and avenue of media. What to keep them from shutting down all commo and targeting select areas at a time? Nothing, I think that's what they'll do.

About the miltias. Yeah they are basically all infiltrated. One tried to form around here and the first meeting LEO's attended....

I think they will keep the infiltrated miltias in reserve until the right time. When the shit hits the fan... they will use them to do random acts of violence and alienate the people from the true movement or resistance. This has been used many times over in history. They might even record their deeds on leaflets and disseminate them through the population or if there is any news system, they will report these actions to demonize any movement. They will basically do what the did to Saddam or Gaddafi after Feb 17th. They will say they target civilians, rape women with highjacked viagra, use street gangs and biker gangs as mercenaries... rip babies from incubators and whatever BULL they can come up with to demonize.

Your comment on the military.... spot on. They already likely know who will follow orders and who wont. Probably all the guys who will follow orders are here or close to home. Probably the real folks are overseas fighting. What they will also do is fragment the good guys to units or posts heavily inundated with rotten ones to make them feel like being wrong is the "norm" or so they can keep tabs on them. Some might be outright "fragged" or framed with a courts-martial. In such a time it would be hard for any investigation by the people so basically what they said would be it.

Another thing we should probably look at is how the UN works as one evil entity. I'm sure they will demonize any resistance to the UN and pander for help militarily. Then there will be patrols and drones from many countries. Maybe smart bomb strikes. Hopefully they would be too tied up at home to respond. But also consider mercenaries. Real mercenary groups exist. One holy roman emperor hired the landsknecht mercenaries simply so he would have to fight against them. The PTB would probably hire them and dress them up like militias and send them rampaging through AO's with the promise that they could keep any loot from citizens. They would then spin and disseminate that information to further demonize.

Your last comment....brings to mind the one quote I think by Hitler.

First you get the women, then comes the children.... so follows the man

Women are more easily impressed by calls from emotion, which are to be played on by the PTB. Ever noticed how vegans are almost predominately women or how many more women are liberal rather than conservative. To a lot of these type women their cause becomes their spouse. And sad men chase after women.... even sadder men will change their beliefs to that of the woman in order to please her.... SAD.

[lsmurphy]

The current military is nothing more than a segment of our current society.

I don't need a Masters degree or an military retirement to figure that out.

Still unconvinced.

[lsmurphy]

The real question is-

Will those in the mil have the balls to stand alone?

My answer is no, they won't.

[lsmurphy]

And BTW any of you humans who have ever made a mistake and realized it...........it is always 100% too late.

Same will be with this.......the damage will be done but this time it is you and me that are damaged.

[Fundump23]

You guys are so far Offf!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


First, Soros is just the "visible" point man. Somebody for YOU to direct your anger at. Working real good isn't it? And that's the plan. You ALL ARE doing so well!!

Second, why does there have be a "big fight" for this country to be taken over by the "bad guys"? They have done such a GREAT job so far. AND ALL ACCORDING TO THE PLAN.

Thousands of American have disapperad or died of "natural causes" because the coroner said so! ANYone remember the Mena Ark murders? Here's the link. Happened when Bill Clinton was governor:
http://users.rcn.com/virtual.nai/sot/arkncide.htm

Just one of 1,000's

Third, Really, how many military personeel are going to "join the rebellion" with NO PAYCHECK?

You're all so far off (except Murphy)

[Aug's Dad]

The real question is-

Will those in the mil have the balls to stand alone?

My answer is no, they won't.

The mil will be like the general population. Some, many I hope, will band together with like minded individuals and side with the Constitution. The rest will side with the gub. There are I'm sure guys like Doc still in the mil.

[mattg72]

Alright, I'm going to lay it all out. Consider it - take it for what it's worth. No, I don't have a crystal ball and no, I don't know the precise timing of future events [nor do I wear a tin-foil hat]. This is based on decades of historical analysis and research by many people - some who have had brief but unique access to the inner-circles of the power elite.

The global elite are determined to destroy America, the Constitution, the US military, and the very notions of national sovereignty and individual liberty. When the time is right and the Navies and nuclear arsenals of China and Russia are ready, the US will be attacked with nuclear weapons… thousands of them. Primary targets include all military bases and related installations, some critical communications and energy infrastructure, some financial centers, and yes… Washington D.C. Generally speaking, population centers will not be targeted - that's not to say that millions won't die however. The West WILL launch a counterstrike, but only after absorbing a devastating first strike. When the dust settles, the elite will emerge from their underground bunkers and, with the use of UN and other troops, will attempt to usher in their long awaited New World Order.

So if you're in the military or live anywhere near a military base, you're probably screwed. The rest of us need to plan for [along with everything else] surviving a few weeks of nuclear fallout. Then, it's up to us to rebuild our lives and mount fierce resistance to the New World Order. The country will be dysfunctional and in ruins for many years, so we'll have time to organize - but it will be a brief window of opportunity that we must not squander, succumbing to anarchy, tyranny and slavery. Densely populated areas will be complete nightmares - to the point that, by and large, people will welcome whatever "order" is provided by the powers that be. Those of us fortunate enough to survive intact and in strong, well armed, self-reliant communities, have to carry the torch for liberty and free humanity.

That's about it. Beyond that, we'll see. Raise your kids to be tough and resourceful. Be in shape and spend your time learning anything and everything you can that will be valuable in the future. In other words, unplug the TV and concentrate on acquiring skills so that you will be an asset to your community, not another liability.

God help us.

[DRAGUN_SLAYER]

Alright, I'm going to lay it all out. Consider it - take it for what it's worth. No, I don't have a crystal ball and no, I don't know the precise timing of future events [nor do I wear a tin-foil hat]. This is based on decades of historical analysis and research by many people - some who have had brief but unique access to the inner-circles of the power elite.

The global elite are determined to destroy America, the Constitution, the US military, and the very notions of national sovereignty and individual liberty. When the time is right and the Navies and nuclear arsenals of China and Russia are ready, the US will be attacked with nuclear weapons… thousands of them. Primary targets include all military bases and related installations, some critical communications and energy infrastructure, some financial centers, and yes… Washington D.C. Generally speaking, population centers will not be targeted - that's not to say that millions won't die however. The West WILL launch a counterstrike, but only after absorbing a devastating first strike. When the dust settles, the elite will emerge from their underground bunkers and, with the use of UN and other troops, will attempt to usher in their long awaited New World Order.

So if you're in the military or live anywhere near a military base, you're probably screwed. The rest of us need to plan for [along with everything else] surviving a few weeks of nuclear fallout. Then, it's up to us to rebuild our lives and mount fierce resistance to the New World Order. The country will be dysfunctional and in ruins for many years, so we'll have time to organize - but it will be a brief window of opportunity that we must not squander, succumbing to anarchy, tyranny and slavery. Densely populated areas will be complete nightmares - to the point that, by and large, people will welcome whatever "order" is provided by the powers that be. Those of us fortunate enough to survive intact and in strong, well armed, self-reliant communities, have to carry the torch for liberty and free humanity.

That's about it. Beyond that, we'll see. Raise your kids to be tough and resourceful. Be in shape and spend your time learning anything and everything you can that will be valuable in the future. In other words, unplug the TV and concentrate on acquiring skills so that you will be an asset to your community, not another liability.

God help us.




Matt, Your view of what is coming is very close to mine, the US will be Nuked. We are Babylon. Surviving is something I would not want, I would rather be at ground zero.

[lsmurphy]

The elite will not nuke amerika...........no they do not have that much control over the rest of the world.

The funny thing is they need you to hide behind and they need you to defend them.

Actually I'm disgusted with the mil because they do defend the monster........Evil. Yep the defenders of Evil it self.

And most of them are not bright enough to see it.

No, all the cowards of the wold hide behind your skirts.

Yep, YOUR skirts.

[lsmurphy]

Oh but there will be hell to pay........yep, sure-nough.


US my well get her just deserves but at the same time the rest of the world gets theirs.

Will not be the first to fall and may not be the last.

You will get your chance to suffer........sure-nough.

[XinTX]

The elite will not nuke amerika...........no they do not have that much control over the rest of the world.

Kind of agree to an extent. At least the US won't be on the receiving end of a massive nuke strike. But those pulling the strings CAN ensure that the positions responsible for preventing a rogue Paki nuke (or leftover USSR nuke) from falling into the hands of Al Qaida are filled with ineffective personnel. Then it's only a matter of time until one gets let off. But in that case we'd see a few small nukes or dirty bombs. Perhaps some EMP devices. But not a massive nuke strike.

So that still leaves a huge mil contingent. I can easily see the senior commanders following orders from 'Dear Leader'. But a LOT of the junior officers and NCOs would likely have a hard time carrying some of them out. Some will follow because they will just follow orders w/o question. Some will via coercion. Either peer pressure, or perhaps via use of leverage on their spouses and kids ("if you follow orders, they can remain on base and we'll provide shelter, defense, and rations, if not, it's outside the gates for all of you and you can fend for yourselves, understand?").

As for the Navy, I've read that they have been replacing a record number of commanders for minor infractions. Basically, unless you're 100% PC, you're going to get drummed out. Seems they're putting their people in place there.

[Zaplatus]

Oh but there will be hell to pay........yep, sure-nough.


US my well get her just deserves but at the same time the rest of the world gets theirs.

Will not be the first to fall and may not be the last.

You will get your chance to suffer........sure-nough.Suffering through this thread right now.. What do you know.. You where right Murph.

Why would the military kill Americans? Because Americans bad mouth them, disrespect them and treat them like second class citizen. Hard to protect your own when they shit on you. Poeple keep treating Veterans and Active mil with the same distaste you keep preaching here. Damn right they'll mash Americans into pudding. So would you if people talked shit and treated you like crap. Smart move, piss off the people you have taught to wage war. Cause you know, that never comes back to bite folks in the ass. .. :sidegrin_

[drjarhead]

Suffering through this thread right now.. What do you know.. You where right Murph.

Why would the military kill Americans? Because Americans bad mouth them, disrespect them and treat them like second class citizen. Hard to protect your own when they shit on you. Poeple keep treating Veterans and Active mil with the same distaste you keep preaching here. Damn right they'll mash Americans into pudding. So would you if people talked shit and treated you like crap. Smart move, piss off the people you have taught to wage war. Cause you know, that never comes back to bite folks in the ass. .. :sidegrin_It's nothing even close to what it was like after Viet Nam.
Servicemen now are treated fantastic compared to that time.
I joined the Marines in '75 and even then you were looked down on for even considering joining the military, esp the Marines. The MSM had everyone completely brainwashed in this regard. Plenty of TV shows and movies with deranged vets who were serial killers, etc. Nothing ever that was good, of course. People would yell at you that you were a baby killer, etc. Always from cars, or from a distance, of course. They would drive by and throw shit at servicemen. Most of you guys now really couldn't imagine.

Just sayin'....

But I don't remember any of us wanting to kill our fellow countrymen over it. Maybe we should have. Seeing where this has all led....maybe we should have.

[mmckown]

A couple of wrong assumptions here in this thread.

1. The Military is most certainly NOT a cross section of the American public. The ending of the draft and the advent of the all volunteer force put an end to that concept.

2. While people join the service for many varied reasons, the majority list a desire to serve their country as one of the reason they joined. This sets them apart form your average Tom, Dick and Murphy from the git go.

3. Unless given serious reasons not to,Troops follow their NCOs. NCOs tend to be dedicated, fairly well educated, and very knowledgable of the UCMJ and how it applies to them. They also have dedicated a significant portion of their life to their country. Their Oath is often the guiding standard in their lives. Those who have not served have no idea what I am talking about. Hell, even those with a single hitch under their belt really don't understand.

[XinTX]

A couple of wrong assumptions here in this thread.

1. The Military is most certainly NOT a cross section of the American public. The ending of the draft and the advent of the all volunteer force put an end to that concept.

2. While people join the service for many varied reasons, the majority list a desire to serve their country as one of the reason they joined. This sets them apart form your average Tom, Dick and Murphy from the git go.

3. Unless given serious reasons not to,Troops follow their NCOs. NCOs tend to be dedicated, fairly well educated, and very knowledgable of the UCMJ and how it applies to them. They also have dedicated a significant portion of their life to their country. Their Oath is often the guiding standard in their lives. Those who have not served have no idea what I am talking about. Hell, even those with a single hitch under their belt really don't understand.

This is why I'm having such a hard time getting my head around this one. But I'm convinced that the 'New World Order' types have this one worked out already. These folks don't simply roll the dice. They have a plan. I just don't see a clear path to getting to the point where the majority of the NCOs would support a power grab that was a usurpation of the authority of the Constitution.

[drjarhead]

This is why I'm having such a hard time getting my head around this one. But I'm convinced that the 'New World Order' types have this one worked out already. These folks don't simply roll the dice. They have a plan. I just don't see a clear path to getting to the point where the majority of the NCOs would support a power grab that was a usurpation of the authority of the Constitution.
Indoctrination

Lies

Changing the makeup of the military

Eventually robotic weapons that won't question orders or consider ethical/moral considerations such as a concern over whether something is inconveniently unconstitutional.

[Fundump23]

A couple of wrong assumptions here in this thread.

1. The Military is most certainly NOT a cross section of the American public. The ending of the draft and the advent of the all volunteer force put an end to that concept.

2. While people join the service for many varied reasons, the majority list a desire to serve their country as one of the reason they joined. This sets them apart form your average Tom, Dick and Murphy from the git go.

3. Unless given serious reasons not to,Troops follow their NCOs. NCOs tend to be dedicated, fairly well educated, and very knowledgable of the UCMJ and how it applies to them. They also have dedicated a significant portion of their life to their country. Their Oath is often the guiding standard in their lives. Those who have not served have no idea what I am talking about. Hell, even those with a single hitch under their belt really don't understand.


Did you serve in the military?

If yes, how long?

Were you enlisted or officer?

[Fundump23]

Indoctrination

Lies

Changing the makeup of the military

Eventually robotic weapons that won't question orders or consider ethical/moral considerations such as a concern over whether something is inconveniently unconstitutional.


That's it in a nutshell!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And XinTX has the other answer as his sigline;

“The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” Ayn Rand

[Aug's Dad]

3. Unless given serious reasons not to,Troops follow their NCOs. NCOs tend to be dedicated, fairly well educated, and very knowledgable of the UCMJ and how it applies to them. They also have dedicated a significant portion of their life to their country. Their Oath is often the guiding standard in their lives. Those who have not served have no idea what I am talking about. Hell, even those with a single hitch under their belt really don't understand.

Ok, mmckown, ole friend, ole buddy, ole pal, I'm a little confused, so help me out. Am I understanding you correctly that your belief is the mil will follow their NCOs even if it goes against the Constitution?

[Fundump23]

The militay will NOT go against the constitution or against "fellow americans"

However, they will "do their duty" and take care of any "domestic terrorist" also known as "gun nuts" "white supremeist" "preppers and hoarders" and "other" "enemies of the state"

Does that leave out anyone on this forum?

You have been warned!

"preppers and hoarders"

This is the best one because according the libturds it's "not proper sharing" of what you (the ants) have with the lazy s.o.b.s (the grasshoppers)

[drjarhead]

Don't forget kiddie porn.

And all they have to due is drop a gram of coke or a smidge of pot on your dresser. Then what are you going to do?

This is classic LE, esp Fed LE, bullshit.

Wait until they target any of us and show up with a blank Search Warrant that they fill in later.

[Dirt Diver]

The real question mark is, believe it or not, mid grade officers and the NCO corps. These people are not dummies, they do not, as a whole, like what they see in our society, and they take their oaths extremely seriously.

They will make the difference, either way. I totally believe this.

[Va_AK]

The militay will NOT go against the constitution or against "fellow americans"

However, they will "do their duty" and take care of any "domestic terrorist" also known as "gun nuts" "white supremeist" "preppers and hoarders" and "other" "enemies of the state"

Does that leave out anyone on this forum?

You have been warned!

"preppers and hoarders"

This is the best one because according the libturds it's "not proper sharing" of what you (the ants) have with the lazy s.o.b.s (the grasshoppers)

Are you, or have YOU served? mmkown has got it.

[lsmurphy]

McKown and a few others have no idea how they have been used.


My wife's son is starting to figure it out though........Leftie idealist who is getting taught a lesson.

Yep the AF is giving the big F.

[lsmurphy]

http://www.google.com/search?q=military+losing+benifits&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I don't want to bore myself so you read it all.

Wife's son calls here a couple of months ago complaining he is losing benefits...........now it has made the news........all of you are getting the fuck.

[mmckown]

Ok, mmckown, ole friend, ole buddy, ole pal, I'm a little confused, so help me out. Am I understanding you correctly that your belief is the mil will follow their NCOs even if it goes against the Constitution?

To a large extent they will.

At least initially. The fact is they will be much more likely to stand up against unlawful orders if their NCOs initiate the action. And the NCOs will be quicker to react if the mid grade officer corps does. None of these people are mindless robots. Every service member has the duty to stand against unlawful orders.

[Va_AK]

So what does mil members getting ..cked out of benefits have to do with standing up against unlawful orders? I'd say it would make them more likely to go against the gov.

[mmckown]

McKown and a few others have no idea how they have been used...

Believe me I know how I have been used. It starts with people like you that have no appreciation of what others have done for you.

It continues wih those that have abused their power for their own and their masters enrichment.

The really sad part is this: as much as those facts hurt and offend me, if I had it to do over again I would. This country isn't perfect. But it is the best option to come along in history. I am, rightly or wrongly, proud that I chose to serve my country. To do more than sit on my ass and complain while other, better men did what they could.

[Fundump23]

To answer Va_AK 's question. YES - - 28 Mar 66 to 4 apr 69 - - US Army;

The reason I ask is because my memories are different from a different time,

While I was in the service I did analyse that question.

My results were;
80% remained in the service because for them it offered them a better way of life. A higher living standard. (my base salary to start was $89.00 A MONTH!) This statement in no way demeans anyone. Lots of those who put in 20 years after Nam did so without seeing any further combat!

15% stay in to "repay" everyone else for the fuckover they got on there first enlistment!

5% stay "to do their duty by serving their county"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mostly officers.

And somewhere around 57 THOUSAND "GAVE THEIR ALL" BECAUSE SOME ASSWIPES IN DC WANTED TO KEEP THE MACHINE GOING!

It's a documented fact that the "Bay of Tonkin" incident NEVER happened!
Gotta go take my blood pressure meds now.





So what are you vets doing week from tomorrow?


I'm going to one of the "standdowns" with my Red Cross shirt or jacket to hand out coffee and donuts.

As I've mentioned in other post I also do free taxi service for vets.

[Fundump23]

And Murphy ,as much as I agree with you about the future of this country, Most of us who have been here awhile KNOW your crystal ball is NOT crystal clear.

"McKown and a few others have no idea how they have been used... "

and I'm 100% certain you don't either.

[Va_AK]

Thanks for your service Fundump. Us young guys try to uphold the traditions..

[mmckown]

To answer Va_AK 's question. YES - - 28 Mar 66 to 4 apr 69 - - US Army;

The reason I ask is because my memories are different from a different time,

While I was in the service I did analyse that question.

My results were; ...

What you are forgetting is that there was a MAJOR overhaul of the US military a few years after you left. The service you belonged to was 80%+ forced induction. The military I belonged (except for the first few years) to was an entirely voluntary force. This change made a huge difference in the outlook and attitude of those who served. Remember back when they used to ask for your service no to see if you were drafted or volunteered? Well for the last 30+ years they have all been volunteers. As a draftee era member only, you would simply not believe the changes the move to an all volunteer force made. Some good, some bad, some just different.

I often talked to my Dad about the service. As a Korean era vet his service experience gave us a good common ground of discussion my first few years in. What struck me as my time in and rank increased was that he simply did not understand how the service really worked. His favorite saying about it was it was designed by genius' to be run by idiots. He was stuck at the 1st hitch level of maturity, while as time went on I began to see that the things that made no sense to him, actually ran if not the only way they could, at least in a much less nonsensical manner than he thought.

I am sure the service has changed in the time since I retired. But the basics are still the same. There has not been the dramatic shift to an all volunteer force. I can and will say that the junior NCOs I trained up are now the senior NCOs, and I'd bet dollors to donuts they have done as good or better job with their people than I did with mine...

[drjarhead]

Thanks for all of your input, Mac, and for your service. We appreciate it.

[Storydude1]

I think everyone else in this thread needs to shut off FOxNews, turn off the computer and take a fucking walk.


:rolleyes:

Fucking bunch of paranoid whackjobs here.

[Fundump23]

Hey! I remember that saying;

It was designed by genius' to be run by idiots


Isn't that still true?


Yep, The world's changing everyday.


PS: I see a turd got dropped right before my post.

"Shit Happens"

[drjarhead]

I think everyone else in this thread needs to shut off FOxNews, turn off the computer and take a fucking walk.


:rolleyes:

Fucking bunch of paranoid whackjobs here.
Maybe you need to take a walk yourself.

If you can't hang with the men that is....

[Fundump23]

Another laff pill :rofl_smal :rofl_smal :rofl_smal



I don't normally pick on people - - - - too much, (LOL)



Maybe he "hangs" with MaserDude?

[drjarhead]

Another laff pill :rofl_smal :rofl_smal :rofl_smal



I don't normally pick on people - - - - too much, (LOL)



Maybe he "hangs" with MaserDude?
Hey, somebody's got to change his diaper!! :wink_smal

:evil:

[lsmurphy]

Believe me I know how I have been used. It starts with people like you that have no appreciation of what others have done for you.

It continues wih those that have abused their power for their own and their masters enrichment.

The really sad part is this: as much as those facts hurt and offend me, if I had it to do over again I would. This country isn't perfect. But it is the best option to come along in history. I am, rightly or wrongly, proud that I chose to serve my country. To do more than sit on my ass and complain while other, better men did what they could. McKown it has nothing to do with you, nothing at all, nor you service.

And no I have no appreciation (generally speaking) for what the mil has done for me. I never asked nor expected what you (collectively) have done for me. You (collectively) have not done what I would want or would need.

You expect me to be grateful for something unwanted. That is what you don't understand.

[Storydude1]

Maybe you need to take a walk yourself.

If you can't hang with the men that is....
Most "Men" I know and associate with are not paranoid schoolchildren screaming "the sky is falling"

I equate the "men" here to Don Quixote-seque paranoid freaks screaming at windmills.

[lsmurphy]

Believe me I know how I have been used. It starts with people like you that have no appreciation of what others have done for you.

It continues wih those that have abused their power for their own and their masters enrichment.

The really sad part is this: as much as those facts hurt and offend me, if I had it to do over again I would. This country isn't perfect. But it is the best option to come along in history. I am, rightly or wrongly, proud that I chose to serve my country. To do more than sit on my ass and complain while other, better men did what they could.McKown I want the truth, period. Some folks like to pretend and worse like to pass the buck off, I do not.

It happens here all the time, someone asks a question and then when someone responds with TRUTH the hearer pretends they did not hear the TRUTH.

I never asked anyone to do anything for me, not you, not the gov, not the mil, not my mommy, not my neighbor. Tell me the truth and I (I) will face the truth, in life or in death.


I DO NOT NEED YOU to become my hero. Don't pretend to be.

[drjarhead]

Most "Men" I know and associate with are not paranoid schoolchildren screaming "the sky is falling"

I equate the "men" here to Don Quixote-seque paranoid freaks screaming at windmills.
Yet here you are.

Or perhaps that is why you are here in the first place.

Delusional but hey, it's your wittle world.

[lsmurphy]

That's what it boils down to for me-

YOU want me to be appreciative of what I don't want from you. I will not oblige.

No I do not agree with the majority of actions of this gov or the mil you serve. I do not.

[Storydude1]

Yet here you are.

Or perhaps that is why you are here in the first place.

Delusional but hey, it's your wittle world.
Only until my sales to you paranoid people are complete.

;)

[lsmurphy]

Only until my sales to you paranoid people are complete.

;)We're not buying.

[Storydude1]

Too bad most already sold LOL.

To the most hated man in the Files marketplace.

Thank you cagunzngear.

[mmckown]

Well since you didn't want or like the service I provided, I guess I should be happy you paid (oh and by the by are continuing to pay) me for it. LOL

Whose's up on who here, murph?

Must really grind your ass to know a portion of every dime you make ends up in my pocket, don't it?

Thanks for making my Day!!!

[lsmurphy]

Well since you didn't want or like the service I provided, I guess I should be happy you paid (oh and by the by are continuing to pay) me for it. LOL

Whose's up on who here, murph?

Must really grind your ass to know a portion of every dime you make ends up in my pocket, don't it?

Thanks for making my Day!!!No not really McKown, not really.

Military or not, what a man is owed is what a man is owed.

[lsmurphy]

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McKown the MASTER and the SLAVE exist in harmony, one is just as harmful as the other. The Slave does NOT stand up to the Master and the Master uses the Slave for it's own purposes.


I do not trust you McKown. I do not trust your Gov. I do not trust your military.

YOU have given me no reason to.

There is not one organization that helps reassure the citizens that the military supports and defends the Constitution and the Citizens of the US. With the exception of Oath Keepers..........and that is not even their purpose.......I cannot think of one.


No McKown........I have abundant reasons to distrust you and not one reason to trust you.

[mmckown]

To be honest I don't give a shit about you beyond your never ending bashing of better men who choose to serve.

As far as trust goes, it is earned. I have no reason to trust you, you none to trust me. You despise me for my service, I you for your lack of same.

And so goes all gun boards and pretty much the entire conservative side of the spectrum. But then I don't think you care about that, or about the country at all for that matter. You are all about you, your concerns, your beliefs. I guess it's possible your concerns might stretch as far as your family, maybe as far as your church. But I doubt it on both counts. Your unwillingness to serve speaks volumes to me about what kind of person you are. I have known alot like you in my life. Been friends with many of them. And wouldn't turn my back on any of them.

You say you have asked nothing from anyone, ever. You probably believe that too. I don't. If you haven't, you are a truly unique individual. I think it much more likely that you have just failed to acknowledge and appreciate the help you have received.

But my opinions really don't matter beyond those who know and trust me.

--BREAK--

I am however amazed at your post count. I spend entirely to much time here, and post almost no where else. Yet you have almost exactly 10 times my post count. Amazing.

[XinTX]

To get back on topic......

Another facet to think about is the significant National Guard contingent in the CONUS. How would they respond. And would say, the governor of Texas give the same orders to call up the NG as the governor of a lefty state like CA. How would they respond? While not as well equipped as the standing mil, there are a lot of them with combat experience. And they might be more inclined to defend their home turf. Might not be impossible for troops who hail from a place like Oakland to be shipped off to suppress a resistance in Ogden, UT. Some of them MIGHT follow orders to shoot. ALL of the NG from UT would fire to defend their home though.

[Fundump23]

Any National Guard "Higher Ups" out there?

Originally the NG were the "state militia" Every state had their "own" NG. And could only be used for state business.

But sometime duting or after Desert Storm 1 the Army somehow gained control of the NG.

Why have so many NG been sent off to a foreign war?


(Note to self: Take BP pill now)


NG FIGHTING IN IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WTF!!!

NEXT THING YOU KNOW WE'LL BE SUPPLING ARMS TO DRUG CARTELS SOUTH OF "OUR" BORDER.


NAWWW! THAT'S JUST TOO TOO STUPID TO EVEN THINK ABOUT!!!!! :confused:

[albino]

Any National Guard "Higher Ups" out there?

Originally the NG were the "state militia" Every state had their "own" NG. And could only be used for state business.

But sometime duting or after Desert Storm 1 the Army somehow gained control of the NG.

Why have so many NG been sent off to a foreign war?


(Note to self: Take BP pill now)


NG FIGHTING IN IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WTF!!!

NEXT THING YOU KNOW WE'LL BE SUPPLING ARMS TO DRUG CARTELS SOUTH OF "OUR" BORDER.


NAWWW! THAT'S JUST TOO TOO STUPID TO EVEN THINK ABOUT!!!!! :confused:


Supplying drug cartels with weapons... Bahahaahaha

Are there no limits for the tin-foil hat crowd?



That is interesting about the N.G. however. If they can be pulled from individual states to be.shipped off to a foreign country; what is to stop that same "authority", from shipping them to different states?

I suppose this is one of the reasons why it is so important for the libs to maintain democrat governors.

[notguilty]

Believe me I know how I have been used. It starts with people like you that have no appreciation of what others have done for you.

It continues wih those that have abused their power for their own and their masters enrichment.

The really sad part is this: as much as those facts hurt and offend me, if I had it to do over again I would. This country isn't perfect. But it is the best option to come along in history. I am, rightly or wrongly, proud that I chose to serve my country. To do more than sit on my ass and complain while other, better men did what they could.
+1

[notguilty]

To answer Va_AK 's question. YES - - 28 Mar 66 to 4 apr 69 - - US Army;

The reason I ask is because my memories are different from a different time,

While I was in the service I did analyse that question.

My results were;
80% remained in the service because for them it offered them a better way of life. A higher living standard. (my base salary to start was $89.00 A MONTH!) This statement in no way demeans anyone. Lots of those who put in 20 years after Nam did so without seeing any further combat!

15% stay in to "repay" everyone else for the fuckover they got on there first enlistment!

5% stay "to do their duty by serving their county"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mostly officers.

And somewhere around 57 THOUSAND "GAVE THEIR ALL" BECAUSE SOME ASSWIPES IN DC WANTED TO KEEP THE MACHINE GOING!

It's a documented fact that the "Bay of Tonkin" incident NEVER happened!
Gotta go take my blood pressure meds now.





So what are you vets doing week from tomorrow?


I'm going to one of the "standdowns" with my Red Cross shirt or jacket to hand out coffee and donuts.

As I've mentioned in other post I also do free taxi service for vets.

Thank you FD