AR15.COM?

Oh oh bob. What happened over there?

Oh oh bob. What happened over there?

Recon-1,

Someone, and with some study it is EASY to see WHO, is out to dis-credit Old Bob-a-rooni. When this plays out, I feel there will be PLENTY of EGG on the smiling faces of people that do not expect to be involved with the "scrambling".

Omlette-a-que?

:wink_smal



PS,..When they remove my "banning" and allow me to reply I will comment,..OVER THERE!

I will not bring this "war" of BULLSHIT to into my home.

I hear you bob! Sometimes the internet community is so fickled!

I hear you bob! Sometimes the internet community is so fickled!

Some of the "vendors" too!

Tick.....Tick......Tick.

Still nothing yet huh?

It really does such when suddenly a person, any person, gets locked out and the story is never allowed to come out... I wish you well!

It really does such when suddenly a person, any person, gets locked out and the story is never allowed to come out... I wish you well!

QB,

Thanks! Do not worry, I will be finer than ever once the smoke from this "Witch Hunt" clears.

99.999% of the AR15.com members have treated me like a KING and have helped me build my little hobby into a respectable business concern. I HONOR and RESPECT the fine "Body of Membership" at AR15.com.

I contacted an impatrtial "moderator" that I trust as soon as the "other" MODERATOR initiated his WITCH HUNT at the bequest of a party not yet identified to the public. (Well,...if you read the posts in the tread in question at AR15.com, you can figure out who HE is....)

The reason I contacted "Jeepcreep" is that he has exhibited IMPECCABLE manners in other dealings on that board. He is not on the "payroll" of anyone involved with, or a sponsor of AR.15.com.

The moderator I contacted now knows what is going on.

Time will tell all......

Bob, I'm very glad to hear that things are progressing over there-- hope you can get back online soon. The ARFcommers are hungry for some good FALacue too! Jeepcreep's a good guy-- if anyone can get this mess ironed out, it'll be him. Keep us posted as much as you can, okay?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=123&t=298417

So.......Bob...does all of this mean you have put the Dodge WC Command Car search on Hold? :)

I don't think jeepcreep wants me to post on the "you know what" topic anymore. :small_gri

FWIW, I have faith in JeepCreep.

I'm eager to hear the other side of this story

I've never had any direct contact with Jeepcreep, but have always respected him. He is now saying some awfully harsh things about Bob over there . . . Part of my problem with all this is that with Bob locked out and unable to tell his side, we will never be able to know the truth of what happened, and it makes Bob an easy target for anyone who had any small problem, or for anyone who hopes to gain something for nothing. I really hope that we can someday discover the real story-- but until then, I guess we're stuck with one side of the story.

I've never had any direct contact with Jeepcreep, but have always respected him. He is now saying some awfully harsh things about Bob over there . . . Part of my problem with all this is that with Bob locked out and unable to tell his side, we will never be able to know the truth of what happened, and it makes Bob an easy target for anyone who had any small problem, or for anyone who hopes to gain something for nothing. I really hope that we can someday discover the real story-- but until then, I guess we're stuck with one side of the story.

I too had faith in "Jeepcreep" but something does not add up,..well at least what is "seen" in plain view. Someone is PULLING someone's STRINGS.

Out of over 2600 kits shipped over a one year span, the "board" (AR15.com) asked me to look into TWELVE (12) customer issues. Most of the issues were recent and very "small issues" according to Jeepcreep. There were shipping mistakes and some were as small as missing SLINGS, CLEANING KITS, and OILERS!

A few of the issues were mix-ups in shipping on paid orders not processed correctly." These issues have been addressed and are in process.

The thing that makes me most irritated is "Jeep's" comment on AR15.com that MOST SALES at Akron Armory were PAID by Money Orders or Cash.

THIS IS A MISINFORMED COMMENT! I ask why would a "MODERATOR" make such a comment?

Out of over 2000 individual phone sales taken by me in the last year, only 2% were paid with CASH, the others were processed by my associate through CREDIT CARDS.

To boot,...my associate and I absorbed over $1400 in FRAUDULENT CUSTOMER CLAIMS. That is where a CUSTOMER receives his kit, then complains to the CARD COMPANY that he NEVER received his product.


This AR15.com ATTACK is a "WITCH HUNT" meant to keep me off of the AR15.com boards at the bequest of someone "partially" hidden. Now, Old Bob is "fair game" for a pure old fashioned "MONKEY PILE" at AR15.com.


For intellectual reference, please check out the comment made by a real "Einstein" in post #8 in the thread linked below.

A "real expert" on Russian PMs ...Speaks out! (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&f=64&t=76945)

<i>(I decided to copy it HERE,..before he deletes it THERE!)</i>

ARCOM on AR15.com writes,..."This guy shot his bolt over at the makarov forum on gunboards.com over a year ago with the same tactics...a few good deals initially then lots of excuses then nothing. Some of us recognized his sh*t very quickly when he refused to admit the Russiam military Makarovs he was selling were from the lot that were mis-routed through Bulgaria and stamped as if they were Bulgarian made imports. While they are in fact real Russkies, they are NOT C&Rs (due to the incorrect import stamp) and consequently are worth about 1/3 of a "true" Soviet PM. Lickety split he was gone with a wake of unhappy customers."

Like I said,.."<i>Monkey Pile</i> on Bob!"



IF ANY CUSTOMER HAS ANY PROBLEMS WITH ME or their KIT or any other PURCHASE,...Just call,..ME!


Regrets,

Bob

My reply to :Jeepceeep (on latest posts on AR15.com),



(Boy,..do I hate speaking across a CROWDED room.)

Your FACTS? Like the comment about the plurality of CASH PAYMENTS?

What about your comments on the LIST of "12" concerning your friend Kyle Lynch having some issue with me about a deal that my associate and I had with him on Tantals and AKMSes?

When I contacted Kyle Lynch (greentimber), he was on his cell phone in New Orleans working "Secirity" after Hurricane Katrina. Mr. Lynch was suprised that you had included him in your COMPLAINT LIST, and said, and I quote,.." I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO BARRY LATELY, and HAVE NOT MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT THIS."

Barry, ...Yes. you have been receptive to me from the moment I asked you to help. I considered you a decent guy.

I am stating that what you consider as MATERIAL, is just not FACT.

Deleting threads? No. Not me. E-mail the Administration at the FAL Files and ask who was behind deleting a thread that was full of "New Members" with less than THREE previous posts, that were trying to cause trouble for a "BOARD ELSEWHERE" that cannot stand to let people reply in fairness.

Several FAL Files members and Moderators suggested and offered to delete the thread as they saw it as obvious as to "who" was posting. I requested that the thread be left alone, so that the "trouble makers" would be exposed when the truth plays out. The FAL Files Administration made their decision.

I do not FEAR any type of "comment" made by anyone in an "OPEN" FORUM.

Barry,...The "Censorship Board" is YOUR BOARD,...YOUR BOARD <b>DELETES </b>USER ACCOUNTS in THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT!

That Sir,..was the way the NAZIs operated.


Enough.

I for one can say that Bob is good to his word. I have purchased items from him and he always was good to his word.

When I contacted Kyle Lynch (greentimber), he was on his cell phone in New Orleans working "Secirity" after Hurricane Katrina. Mr. Lynch was suprised that you had included him in your COMPLAINT LIST, and said, and I quote,.." I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO BARRY LATELY, and HAVE NOT MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT THIS."

Barry, ...Yes. you have been receptive to me from the moment I asked you to help. I considered you a decent guy.

Bob,
Does your bullshit EVER end? Yes, Kyle is in NOLA on security detail, I spoke to him yesterday afternoon. He has not heard a word from you! 2 weeks ago, he asked that the merchandise that you owed him, be shipped to me, and he would pick it up from me, when he comes thru town.
Likewise, I spoke to Blaine at Atlantic, he said you promised to send out Monday his Merchandise.....will you make that deadline? or will you be feasting on BBQ?

There is a reason I have not been taking your calls...I wanted proof in writing on what you were going to do. This "poor Bob defense" is old, not everyone is out to screw you over! You are the one who asked me to get involved....and You do not like what I have discovered!

Just get the people their money, or kits and I will leave you alone!

Bob,
Does your bullshit EVER end? Yes, Kyle is in NOLA on security detail, I spoke to him yesterday afternoon. He has not heard a word from you! 2 weeks ago, he asked that the merchandise that you owed him, be shipped to me, and he would pick it up from me, when he comes thru town.
Likewise, I spoke to Blaine at Atlantic, he said you promised to send out Monday his Merchandise.....will you make that deadline? or will you be feasting on BBQ?

There is a reason I have not been taking your calls...I wanted proof in writing on what you were going to do. This "poor Bob defense" is old, not everyone is out to screw you over! <font color=red>You are the one who asked me to get involved....and You do not like what I have discovered!</font>

Just get the people their money, or kits and I will leave you alone!

Barry,


First of all,...Welcome to "The AK Files",...where people get a chance to SPEAK without getting their USER ACCOUNT DELETED.

I highlighted in RED the comment YOU made above for a VERY SPECIFIC REASON.

Yes,..I contacted you because I felt you to be a good man. I STILL feel you are.

The concern I have is that you do not take into consideration the "answers" I have given you and the fact that these instances take time to investigate.

There is, as there always is, a lot more going on behind the scenes than is visable on the surface. Money, Greed, and Personal issues ALWAYS get in the way of GOOD BUSINESS. You say I act like POOR BOB,...I do not think EVERYONE is out to SCREW ME OVER,..but I KNOW WHO IS.

I also know the FINE PROPLE who are members of the various boards are being "played" like a fiddle by others behind the scene.

I may need to "level the playing field" here real soon.

I hope I do not need to resort to that.



Secondly,...I have been reading your posts on AR15.com about the issue where someone has "rumored" that YOU are a WEBSITE ASSISTANT for Ohio Rapid Fire.

AR15.com thread....Page 2...Jeepcreep's reply to FALSE RUMORS! (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=123&t=298417&page=2)

Someone out there in RUMOR LAND has their information TWISTED. I know you have NOTHING to do with ORF's WEBSITE,..but SOMEONE has gotten BAD RUMOR STYLE INFORMATION! Maybe they READ INTO someones POSTS,..and...ASSUMED!

BAD INFO BARRY,...One sided,.... BAD INFO!

Now EVERYBODY can see by your VIOLENT RESPONSE TO THIS ALLEGATION, and it is clear that YOU have your SHORTS all in a BUNCH over this RUMOR,....RIGHT?

That is what RUMORS, LIES, and VAGUE HALF TRUTHS can do to a MAN. Just imagine how you would FEEL,... IF YOU,...Jeepcreep (Site Staff) ...WERE LOCKED OUT AND COULD NOT REPLY!

FEEL GOOD? No,..It is a BITCH,...IS IT NOT?


Now,..REALITY!......

When I recieved your "9 Issue Complaint List", most complaints concerning missing small parts, the first two PEOPLE on the list were customers of mine that were VENDORS.

1) Atlantic Firearms (Blaine Bunting)
2) Greentimber (Kyle Lynch)

I was under the impression that you were trying to help me with Dan's shipping discrepencies with MEMBERS,...not cause EXCESS friction in BUSINESS TRANSACTIONS.

I have spoken to Blaine and Kyle on several occasions about their lack of satisfaction with the condition of the kits they received as shipped from the warehouse, (Kyle actually picked his up,..we should have opened the crates at that time and inspected) and have tried to rectify the problems.

I know that Kyle is a personal friend of yours. If you remember, when Kyle came to Pittsburgh to receive his product, after first informing my associate of the damaged mags that HE has missed that were included in YOUR kit order, I pulled from a crate....TWO BRAND NEW AK-47 MAGS for Kyle to give you.

I do not, and NEVER HAVE SHORTED ANYONE!

I am sorry to have mentioned the discussion with Kyle while he was in New Orleans. Kyle is a very nice man who has given his "all" to this country and served the Military with honor. I took a liking to Kyle from the start.

If you really "spoke" to him about my comment, and you can tell me he said Kyle said HE and I NEVER SPOKE when he was in N.O.,...Then either HE WILL NOT ADMIT IT TO YOU because he is your friend and mad at me for mentioning it to YOU, or because he is......(I can not say why!...I am baffled!).


I do not think this is the case.

I will call Kyle, and as he is a MAN,...he will speak to me.


Again,....WELCOME to the AK Files.

Bob, don't tell me how to make a watch ...just tell me what damn time it is! You are a salesman pure and simple, you dance all around the issues, just enough not to get pinned down, well...here are the issues I have outstanding...

Atlantic Firearms:missing kits received were about $1,200 less that what was paid for
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped Monday 10/17

GreenTimber:missing: kits received were about $600 less that what was paid for agreed by both parties
Status:Bob was supposed to send $600 of merchandise to me to hold until GT is finished on his assignment, nothing received as of yet.eta(10/15 5:58pm I just hung up the phone with GT, he said,"The only way to settle this is for you to ship the merchandise NOW." He is supposed to be calling you as well.)

timb3:missing :kit
Status: Havent' seen anything yet.(per timb3 10/14 paid by USPMO 08/05)

davidp14:missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it was shipped 9/29 from “shipping point” IAFAIK.. davidp14 still has not received it.

Tiny: missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped in areasonable time… what is reasonable? This week?

Laxmanaz:missing: trigger guard assy and mag latch/selector stop that was missing from PKMS kit.
Status: Bob has yet to send.

Doug_H:missing: Cleaning kit,Oiler bottle,Rivet set, bayo.
Status:Bob sent him a plum bayo, claiming that was to make up for everything, Doug_H sez not.(this is from 2004!)

Scott Ryan missing: under folder kit paid for 3 months ago.
Status: Bob “claims” he needs to speak to him again, this is from 10/05

JRS (#8 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” he shipped it 10/12

elokoman (#9 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” refund sent 10/09

rjb_213: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for 6 weeks ago.
Status:?

Jerret: missing:
Status:? Settled 10/15/05 9:40pm

Bob,
Does your bullshit EVER end? Yes, Kyle (greentimber) is in NOLA on security detail, I spoke to him yesterday afternoon. He has not heard a word from you! 2 weeks ago, he asked that the merchandise that you owed him, be shipped to me, and he would pick it up from me, when he comes thru town.





Bob, don't tell me how to make a watch ...just tell me what damn time it is! You are a salesman pure and simple, you dance all around the issues, just enough not to get pinned down, well...here are the issues I have outstanding...


1) Atlantic Firearms:missing kits received were about $1,200 less that what was paid for
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped Monday 10/17

2) GreenTimber:missing: kits received were about $600 less that what was paid for agreed by both parties

<font color=red>Status:Bob was supposed to send $600 of merchandise to me to hold until GT is finished on his assignment, nothing received as of yet.eta(10/15 5:58pm I just hung up the phone with GT, he said,"The only way to settle this is for you to ship the merchandise NOW." He is supposed to be calling you as well.) </font>

3) timb3:missing :kit
Status: Havent' seen anything yet.(per timb3 10/14 paid by USPMO 08/05)

4) davidp14:missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it was shipped 9/29 from “shipping point” IAFAIK.. davidp14 still has not received it.

5) Tiny: missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped in areasonable time… what is reasonable? This week?

6) Laxmanaz:missing: trigger guard assy and mag latch/selector stop that was missing from PKMS kit.
Status: Bob has yet to send.

7) Doug_H:missing: Cleaning kit,Oiler bottle,Rivet set, bayo.
Status:Bob sent him a plum bayo, claiming that was to make up for everything, Doug_H sez not.(this is from 2004!)

8) Scott Ryan missing: under folder kit paid for 3 months ago.
Status: Bob “claims” he needs to speak to him again, this is from 10/05

9) JRS (#8 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” he shipped it 10/12

10) elokoman (#9 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” refund sent 10/09

11) rjb_213: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for 6 weeks ago.
Status:?

12) Jerret: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for “months ago”
Status:?

Mr. Sparrow,

"Name calling" will not help resolve these issues.

Let's FIRST review the issue #2 and your "claimed agreement" between the parties that is <font color=red>HIGHLIGHTED in RED</font> ,...before we go on.

Expect a call from Mr. Lynch. I just called him, as I read this post from the "road". Kyle just told me he will call you at once.

9:00pm no calls...no messages...but just for shits and giggles, for the time being let's just table the top 2. What about these rest of these? Don't tell me you haven't had time to address them, you have had them for over 2 weeks.

Don't you think you should get the other 10 issues settled before you take people's money on the FAL kits? I mean as a good faith gesture, just to show EVERYBODY what a great guy you are?

9:00pm no calls...no messages...but just for shits and giggles, for the time being let's just table the top 2. What about these rest of these? Don't tell me you haven't had time to address them, you have had them for over 2 weeks.

Don't you think you should get the other 10 issues settled before you take people's money on the FAL kits? I mean as a good faith gesture, just to show EVERYBODY what a great guy you are?



I will make sure every LEGETIMATE UN-ENHANCED CLAIM is SATISFIED!


Barry,...I am not calling you a LIAR,..but YOU need to talk to GREENTIMBER.

He agreed in our conversation this evening that THE CONVERSATION I HAD WITH HIM PRIOR DID OCCUR even though you call the statement that I have spoken to Kyle,.."BULLSHIT"

NO SUCH RESTITUTION DEAL HAD BEEN AGREED UPON as of NOW. NO SUCH ARRANGEMENTS have been made ,...OR EVEN DISCUSSED,...TO SHIP YOU ANYTHING!

Are you SOLICITING CLAIMS,..or MANUFACTURING ISSUES?


Some of the issues you posted are SETTLED,...some are PENDING,...and some are NEW and NEVER mentioned before.

When people receive their item or refund,...are you being notified or checking them out?

Jarret?.....I have no knowledge of this MEMBER'S issue!

Jarret has just posted that his was a kit and never shipped or charged, so he is solved. I will mark his issue settled.

I will try to call Kyle right now.

NOW...the rest of the kits, have they shipped like you promised me the other day they would?

Jarret has just posted that his was a kit and never shipped or charged, so he is solved. I will mark his issue settled.

I will try to call Kyle right now.

NOW...the rest of the kits, have they shipped like you promised me the other day they would?



Easy there "Don Quixote",...SLOW DOWN! There are NO DRAGONS!

Barry,... How did jarret's "PAID FOR" RSA trigger group turn into a "kit order never charged"?

SETTLED? HOW ABOUT,...Gee BOB,..I MADE A MISTAKE!

See Barry,...we can ALL make them.

On other issues,...if you wish,...Please inform Scott Ryan that since Dan's charged him TWICE by accident after shipping ONE KIT, and I have received NO RESPONSE from Dan's on this or the other issues that remain, he may wish to call Dan's Sporting Goods DIRECTLY,..or Scott should call his own Credit Card company.

Scott Ryan was "gracious" enough about the charging mistake, and offered to take another kit. No response from my associate.

I await your report on the call to Greentimber, then I will update when I return to my office and can view my hand written notes.

Bob,

I IM'd you yesterday, but I'll go ahead and post here as well since I haven't heard back from you yet. I really don't care what issues there are between you and whoever else. I'm sorry you're having troubles though. That said, all I want is either my kit (polish underfolder) or a refund by the end of the month. I snail-mailed my order to you with a usps money order for $240.00 in mid august, and you IM'd me at ar15.com (my user name there is timb3) on about august 30th stating that you had received it. I've tried to be patient, 'cause I know things happen, but I'm just out of time at this point and need to do something else if you can't get a kit to me in the next couple of weeks. I know you asked me to call, but it's hard for me to call during your business hours because of my work situation. I did try to call a couple of times this week, but barely missed your closing time on monday (got the recorder) and then you were gone on wednesday. Anyhow, I guess we're stuck doing this here.

- Tim

Not chasing windmills Bob...there are kits/parts missing. Jerret posted about a missing FCG group on ARFcom, and then he posted
I was quoting someone else, and telling him about the "it's on my desk ready to be shipped out excuse" and how it's just a lie.

My dad had ordered a Bulgy sidefolder from Bob and never got it, but our card was never charged. My dad has since acquired a kit from some one else. Sorry for the confusion. I have nothing more to say about this.

I have no way of knowing who got what/when other than what they post on the board.

Now...back on subject here... what about the other kits/missing parts?

Not chasing windmills Bob...there are kits/parts missing. Jerret posted about a missing FCG group on ARFcom, and then he posted


<font color=red>I have no way of knowing who got what/when other than what they post on the board. </font>

Now...back on subject here... what about the other kits/missing parts?


Barry,

OTHER THAN WHAT YOU READ ON A BOARD?....Barry,...GET SERIOUS!

Do you understand why I asked you to help me "mediate" this issue? I felt you were a decent guy with a good reputation that could help EVERYONE involved.

The PROBLEM I am having with the proceedure as it is unfolding, is...YOUR ATTITUDE.


EVERYONE now understands that out of 2000 or so kits shipped, with 2000 or so customers to deal with, and a deterioriation of my bussiness arrangements, my operation has TWELVE cases that have poped up near the end of the process, that need investigated and finalized.

I am working on them.

EVERYONE now understands that out of YOUR reported TWELVE complaints, there is at least ONE REPORTED CASE, and a REPORTED CONVERSATION with my customer, that have NO MERIT AT ALL!

I suggest if you wish to be FAIR to ALL,..YOU NEED TO SLOW DOWN AND INVESTIGATE, before you CONDEM.

I see your posts over on AR15.com, speaking as if you KNOW the business arrangement between my associate and myself. You comment as if I held money that was to be sent to my associate. You comment as if MY ACTIONS were in someway QUESTIONABLE.

In my opinion, your actions as a "MODERATOR" and as a "MEDIATOR" have become UNACCEPTABLE!



In closing,...

I have the LIST, and I am working on my investigation and the satisfaction of my customers.

Question: ... Barry, where do you expect me to find "kits and parts" that I do not have in my posession, as I NEVER had them in my posession to BEGIN with?

Answer:... ANOTHER VENDOR!

I am working to fill those orders with a Vendor that is very understanding of what has TRANSPIRED and ,..OFFERED to HELP ME!

IT TAKES TIME TO MAKE SURE THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN,...AGAIN!



I will take it from here, before this "MEDIATION" loses all effectiveness.

I suggest you speak to Kyle Lynch (greentimber) and clear that ISSUE.

Regards,

Bob

PS,...I do not EXPECT an APOLOGY over the "Greentimber" issue, as WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES!

I have no way of knowing who got what/when other than what they post on the board.



Holy Jumping Jesus........"He said, that she said, that he said." ......is that a "new" way of saying "I may or may not know what the fuck I am talking about?" The little lord Jesus KNOWS that EVERYTHING on the internet is Gospel.


Curiouser and curiouser.

Bob...the master of spin! Your bullshit spewing never ceases to amaze me! Yes Bob. spin what you will!....still no word from Kyle!

here is your email saying the kits have already shipped, as well as the refunds(this is from LAST weekend)
Barry,

#8 and #10) Kits will go out Wednesday from "sympathetic" alternate source.

#9) at Customers preference, a refund was mailed.

#11) Have emailed asking for shipping address. Trigger guard is at the ready.

#12 Doug,..good old Doug H) I thought the $100 Un-issued Russian "Plum" AK-74 Bayonet that I sent him was "substitute" enough for these small accessories, after I was informed by the customer that Dan was not shipping them with the kits,..We had run out and NOBODY TOLD ME.

Thanks for your help,

Bob Williams

Where do the lies stop?

I just hope that those people buying FAL kits have enough sense to look elsewhere!

Bob...the master of spin! Your bullshit spewing never ceases to amaze me! Yes Bob. spin what you will!....still no word from Kyle!

here is your email saying the kits have already shipped, as well as the refunds(this is from LAST weekend)


Where do the lies stop?

I just hope that those people buying FAL kits have enough sense to look elsewhere!



Keep "editing" Barry,...It does not erase the fact that your actions, in my opinion have become "Unacceptable".


Your comment about the "FAL Sales",..now Sir,… tell me that comment is either proper, or pertinent to the issue.

Well all of my dealings with Bob have come off without a hitch. Seeing how folks are handling themselves in this thread, I will say that is both major parties where vendors I know who I would continue to deal with.

Just got off the phone with Bob. Seems like a nice enough guy. He explained about what's been going on, appologised for the delay and said my kit is supposed to go out this week. I'm sorry to hear about all the troubles that have gone on with all this and I hope everyone involved can get everything cleared up without any futher problems. Anyway, I'll post back here again when I receive the kit so there won't be any confusion about "who got what".


- Tim

Well all of my dealings with Bob have come off without a hitch.

I probably should mention that I've purchased Bulgarian AK-74 kits from Bob and I've been very pleased with what I received...

And what I received (and quickly) were new rifles, just like "promised"...

Given all the connections among the many people involved in some of the problems mentioned here, I don't doubt that there have been some delays in getting "problems" fixed...

However, having said that, I would not hesitate to order from Bob (and plan to do so in the future).

Them's my thoughts...

(And, as a relevant aside, open discussion (and discovering the "truth" in any situation) works a lot better when all discussants can be heard).

Forrest

Bob,

I just got off the phone with Kyle.....he said you told him the reason you haven't sent the merchandise ....you didn't have my address! BWHAHAHHAHAhha... he laughed his ass off when I told him you said that ...and I quote "NO SUCH RESTITUTION DEAL HAD BEEN AGREED UPON as of NOW. NO SUCH ARRANGEMENTS have been made ,...OR EVEN DISCUSSED,...TO SHIP YOU ANYTHING!"

Don't worry, he doesn't have duty tonight, and I am going to send him this thread so he can tell you himself!

You are correct I do need to get back on the subject, and leave the makarov and FAL deal out of this...they will have to get their merchandise out of you however the legal system allows.

The reason my actions are "unacceptable" is because I was brought in on your request, and didn't drink "the kool-aid"...and agree to sweep things under the rug. I am not here to mediate...as to mediate you have to have 2 parties that are willing to deal "in good faith", you are incapable of telling the truth, much less be a party to good faith negotiations. Don't worry Bob....I am not going anywhere until the listed issues are settled. I will track you down on every board you post!

Here they are again

Atlantic Firearms:missing kits received were about $1,200 less that what was paid for
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped Monday 10/17

GreenTimber:missing: kits received were about $600 less that what was paid for agreed by both parties
Status:Bob was supposed to send $600 of merchandise to me to hold until GT is finished on his assignment, nothing received as of yet.eta(10/15 5:58pm I just hung up the phone with GT, he said,"The only way to settle this is for you to ship the merchandise NOW." He is supposed to be calling you as well.) (10/16 4:45pm spoke to GT again, said that Bob is still supposed to be sending mags/parts etc to make up for the $600)

timb3:missing :kit
Status: Havent' seen anything yet.(per timb3 10/14 paid by USPMO 08/05)

davidp14:missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it was shipped 9/29 from “shipping point” IAFAIK.. davidp14 still has not received it.

Tiny: missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped in areasonable time… what is reasonable? This week?

Laxmanaz:missing: trigger guard assy and mag latch/selector stop that was missing from PKMS kit.
Status: Bob has yet to send.

Doug_H:missing: Cleaning kit,Oiler bottle,Rivet set, bayo.
Status:Bob sent him a plum bayo, claiming that was to make up for everything, Doug_H sez not.(this is from 2004!)

Scott Ryan missing: under folder kit paid for 3 months ago.
Status: Bob “claims” he needs to speak to him again, this is from 10/05

JRS (#8 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” he shipped it 10/12

elokoman (#9 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” refund sent 10/09

rjb_213: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for 6 weeks ago.
Status:?

Jerret: missing:
Status:? Settled 10/15/05 9:40pm

Bob,

I just got off the phone with Kyle.....he said you told him the reason you haven't sent the merchandise ....you didn't have my address! BWHAHAHHAHAhha... he laughed his ass off when I told him you said that ...and I quote "NO SUCH RESTITUTION DEAL HAD BEEN AGREED UPON as of NOW. NO SUCH ARRANGEMENTS have been made ,...OR EVEN DISCUSSED,...TO SHIP YOU ANYTHING!"

Don't worry, he doesn't have duty tonight, and I am going to send him this thread so he can tell you himself!

You are correct I do need to get back on the subject, and leave the makarov and FAL deal out of this...they will have to get their merchandise out of you however the legal system allows.

The reason my actions are "unacceptable" is because I was brought in on your request, and didn't drink "the kool-aid"...and agree to sweep things under the rug. I am not here to mediate...as to mediate you have to have 2 parties that are willing to deal "in good faith", you are incapable of telling the truth, much less be a party to good faith negotiations.<font color=red> Don't worry Bob....I am not going anywhere until the listed issues are settled. I will track you down on every board you post!</font>

Here they are again

Atlantic Firearms:missing kits received were about $1,200 less that what was paid for
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped Monday 10/17

GreenTimber:missing: kits received were about $600 less that what was paid for agreed by both parties
Status:Bob was supposed to send $600 of merchandise to me to hold until GT is finished on his assignment, nothing received as of yet.eta(10/15 5:58pm I just hung up the phone with GT, he said,"The only way to settle this is for you to ship the merchandise NOW." He is supposed to be calling you as well.) (10/16 4:45pm spoke to GT again, said that Bob is still supposed to be sending mags/parts etc to make up for the $600)

timb3:missing :kit
Status: Havent' seen anything yet.(per timb3 10/14 paid by USPMO 08/05)

davidp14:missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it was shipped 9/29 from “shipping point” IAFAIK.. davidp14 still has not received it.

Tiny: missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped in areasonable time… what is reasonable? This week?

Laxmanaz:missing: trigger guard assy and mag latch/selector stop that was missing from PKMS kit.
Status: Bob has yet to send.

Doug_H:missing: Cleaning kit,Oiler bottle,Rivet set, bayo.
Status:Bob sent him a plum bayo, claiming that was to make up for everything, Doug_H sez not.(this is from 2004!)

Scott Ryan missing: under folder kit paid for 3 months ago.
Status: Bob “claims” he needs to speak to him again, this is from 10/05

JRS (#8 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” he shipped it 10/12

elokoman (#9 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” refund sent 10/09

rjb_213: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for 6 weeks ago.
Status:?

Jerret: missing:
Status:? Settled 10/15/05 9:40pm

Mr. Sparrow,

I consider your post offensive to all involved, and in my opinion it constitutes a "threat" directed at me personally.

I just spoke with Kyle Lynch (Greentimber) as he was sitting down to dinner. Kyle is mystified, and stated he will try to post tonight and set the record straight.

With regrets,

Bob

Bob,

Now...you are starting to amuse me! No thanks! I don't want any kool-aid,Makarovs, or VW parts. Just give the people what you owe them!

My.....this is getting ugly.

Hey Bob since your reading this maybe this will save me a phone call. Can you PM me with some info on the FAL kits.
1. Condition
2.Shipping date
3.Are you taking orders yet

QB,

Thanks! Do not worry, I will be finer than ever once the smoke from this "Witch Hunt" clears.
<snip>
The reason I contacted "Jeepcreep" is that he has exhibited IMPECCABLE manners in other dealings on that board. He is not on the "payroll" of anyone involved with, or a sponsor of AR.15.com.

The moderator I contacted now knows what is going on.

Time will tell all......

...and again...this is what I found out!

Atlantic Firearms:missing kits received were about $1,200 less that what was paid for
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped Monday 10/17

GreenTimber:missing: kits received were about $600 less that what was paid for agreed by both parties
Status:Bob was supposed to send $600 of merchandise to me to hold until GT is finished on his assignment, nothing received as of yet.eta(10/15 5:58pm I just hung up the phone with GT, he said,"The only way to settle this is for you to ship the merchandise NOW." He is supposed to be calling you as well.) (10/16 4:45pm spoke to GT again, said that Bob is still supposed to be sending mags/parts etc to make up for the $600)

timb3:missing :kit
Status: Havent' seen anything yet.(per timb3 10/14 paid by USPMO 08/05)

davidp14:missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it was shipped 9/29 from “shipping point” IAFAIK.. davidp14 still has not received it.

Tiny: missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped in areasonable time… what is reasonable? This week?

Laxmanaz:missing: trigger guard assy and mag latch/selector stop that was missing from PKMS kit.
Status: Bob has yet to send.

Doug_H:missing: Cleaning kit,Oiler bottle,Rivet set, bayo.
Status:Bob sent him a plum bayo, claiming that was to make up for everything, Doug_H sez not.(this is from 2004!)

Scott Ryan missing: under folder kit paid for 3 months ago.
Status: Bob “claims” he needs to speak to him again, this is from 10/05

JRS (#8 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” he shipped it 10/12

elokoman (#9 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” refund sent 10/09

rjb_213: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for 6 weeks ago.
Status:?

Jerret: missing:
Status:? Settled 10/15/05 9:40pm



I will however leave out the "kind"[/sarcasim] words that dealers in the firearms community had for him!

Bob, when are these kits going to ship from your "sympathetic" source, enough stalling already!

I'm getting to this thread a little late obviously. I'm working 12-15+ hours a day (and nights) and often don't have time to take a shower let alone chase all of this. I'll try to detail some facts here ASAP.

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 32 (18 members and 14 guests)
Morning Wood, johnsopi, bsn, Atlantic Firearms, 16r40, Ductapeman, hvac, scaldwellk, JeepCreep, Jen, tim503, sdcromer, Pirate, mike_f, bubagun, Jax, smittygj


Looks like everybody who is anybody has their antenna tuned to this thread.

Yep!

I'm getting to this thread a little late obviously. I'm working 12-15+ hours a day (and nights) and often don't have time to take a shower let alone chase all of this. I'll try to detail some facts here ASAP.

I'm just wondering where all the "facts" that were posted here last night (before the editing) have gone...

Forrest

I'm just wondering where all the "facts" that were posted here last night (before the editing) have gone...

Forrest

....wasn't me! I wondered the same thing! Anywho.....

Bob,
Did Atlantic's order ship today like you said ?

Also on ARFcom rjb_213 has stated that he talked to Bob, and his trigger would be shipped out this week.

That is my sitrep...looks like I will sit back and watch the fur fly!

just speeking up for bob, i dealt with him and had no problems, one of my ak mags was slightly bent and i asked him what i should do, send it back and get a new one or just fiddle with it and fix it, he said it was up to me and i fixed it. all the people i know who have dealt with bob say good things about him.

I'm just wondering where all the "facts" that were posted here last night (before the editing) have gone...

Forrest

I pulled them to clarify a few things so they wouldn't come across as an attack on anyone personally. I just finished a 17+ hour day and I'm not fucking with this tonight.

What a load of crap from a guy who is getting half of A/THE story that someone else is feeding him. I've been reading all of Jeepcreep's BS about ALL of Bob's shipping discrepancies, when he doesn't even know(or does he?), who was really in charge of the shipping. Jeep, you're gonna choke or gag, if you still have that involuntary response, when all truths come to light. Maybe we'll rename you DeepJeepthroatcreep when it's over. Bob has been working quite diligently to make these shortages and other shipping F-Up's right, when it was the fault of someone else's lack of attention to matters at hand. Hey Jeep, if you were counting on someone to do their job, like getting rounds on target and on time, and the next thing you know the guy is out of country with a froggy floozy for 2 weeks, while you're in the middle of a firefight, you'd be sensitive about nitpicking too. Swallow the load given to you and come up for air before it's too late for you. You're losing credibility everywhere.

Nick F ,welcome to the board. Perhaps you bring a "fresh" insight with you.

Hmmmmmmmmmm......the plot thickens.

WOW! Nick [rolleyes]...great insight for your first post! in cyberland they call somebody who doesn't have enough balls to post under their real name TROLL.

Whatever.... Bob, bottom line...did you ship anything or not?...was the line too long at the BBQ shop? what excuse do you have for us today?

DeepJeep, the name is Nick. Last name starts with F. Email is vwguy@zoominternet.net, and I know LOTS of stuff. try to solve your rectal-cranial inversion before you embarrass yourself further.

WOW! Nick [rolleyes]...great insight for your first post! in cyberland they call somebody who doesn't have enough balls to post under their real name TROLL.

Whatever.... Bob, bottom line...did you ship anything or not?...was the line too long at the BBQ shop? what excuse do you have for us today?

Hmmm

I didn't know that your real name was JeepCreep...

Learn something every day, Mr. JeepCreep...

Forrest

...and again...this is what I found out!

Atlantic Firearms:missing kits received were about $1,200 less that what was paid for
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped Monday 10/17

GreenTimber:missing: kits received were about $600 less that what was paid for agreed by both parties
Status:Bob was supposed to send $600 of merchandise to me to hold until GT is finished on his assignment, nothing received as of yet.eta(10/15 5:58pm I just hung up the phone with GT, he said,"The only way to settle this is for you to ship the merchandise NOW." He is supposed to be calling you as well.) (10/16 4:45pm spoke to GT again, said that Bob is still supposed to be sending mags/parts etc to make up for the $600)

timb3:missing :kit
Status: Havent' seen anything yet.(per timb3 10/14 paid by USPMO 08/05)

davidp14:missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it was shipped 9/29 from “shipping point” IAFAIK.. davidp14 still has not received it.

Tiny: missing: kit
Status: Bob “claims” it will be shipped in areasonable time… what is reasonable? This week?

Laxmanaz:missing: trigger guard assy and mag latch/selector stop that was missing from PKMS kit.
Status: Bob has yet to send.

Doug_H:missing: Cleaning kit,Oiler bottle,Rivet set, bayo.
Status:Bob sent him a plum bayo, claiming that was to make up for everything, Doug_H sez not.(this is from 2004!)

Scott Ryan missing: under folder kit paid for 3 months ago.
Status: Bob “claims” he needs to speak to him again, this is from 10/05

JRS (#8 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” he shipped it 10/12

elokoman (#9 of orig list) missing :PMAKS Grade #1 kit
Status: Bob “claims” refund sent 10/09

rjb_213: missing:RSA trigger group, ordered & paid for 6 weeks ago.
Status:?

Jerret: missing:
Status:? Settled 10/15/05 9:40pm



I will however leave out the "kind"[/sarcasim] words that dealers in the firearms community had for him!

Bob, when are these kits going to ship from your "sympathetic" source, enough stalling already!

Hi jeepsreep.

Please don't take offence But if your going to post my screen name and the info. about my dealings with Bob all over the net could you at least let me know before hand and where you post it?

I really don't enjoy finding my business spread all over the net.
I understand that you are trying to help but I like my privacy.
Take care and God bless you and yours.
Tiny.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I believe a valuable lesson can be learned here, if you are going to buy ANYTHING over the net always pay by credit card. if you don't receive your product, or it's not what you order or missing things and you can't get it resolved with the seller, it's agent or whoever, then it's just a simple matter of picking up the phone call your credit card company and they will be more then happy to take the charges off your credit card.

it is less painful going the credit card route then having e-mails, phone calls go unanswered, or being stroked about getting your order out today etc..

I was stiffed on a couple of products from other companies, and they stroked me about getting it "soon". I gave them just 4 days after I called them to send me what I bought, after which I didn't bother playing with them after that, I just called my credit card folks and had them take off the charges, no fuss no muss, and I wasn't out one red cent.


money orders are nice, but lets face it, it's not going to do you a bit of good to get your money back that way.

I see Bob's minions....but where is Bob?

Anyway....did you get anything shipped today?

16r40
money orders are nice, but lets face it, it's not going to do you a bit of good to get your money back that way.

Actually it will, if you pay by using a US Postal Money Order, and send it via the US Post Office, it is considered mail fraud...a felony. Just follow this link..
http://www.framed.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm

Or download the PDF file, PS Form 8165 .

This works, very effective to have a US Postal inspector visit!

Hi jeepsreep.

Please don't take offence But if your going to post my screen name and the info. about my dealings with Bob all over the net could you at least let me know before hand and where you post it?

I really don't enjoy finding my business spread all over the net.
I understand that you are trying to help but I like my privacy.
Take care and God bless you and yours.
Tiny.It doesn't look like everyone WANTS or NEEDS your "help" Jeepcreep. Let Bob work it out...he doesn't need your "help" either.

I see Bob's minions....but where is Bob?

Anyway....did you get anything shipped today?

So now your going to start calling me names just b/c I have refused to talk bad about a man that has done right by me in our past dealings.
The man made me a promises that he would send me my Polish U/F kit with what I think is a reasonable time frame so I will with hold my judgment until that time frame has lapsed.

Actually Tiny, I wasn't talking about you.

...it was more like people like FAL.

This is meant to be a statement of events not a personal attack on anyone. Hopefully writing things out here will be more successful than playing phone tag.




I'm getting to this thread a little late obviously. I'm working 12-15+ hours a day (and nights) and often don't have time to take a shower let alone chase all of this.

I spent over $19,000 on kits in July. I drove 900 miles each way, met with Bob and Dan, and bought six crates of kits and some mags. Dan handles the billing so I made a check to him for these items then handed it to Bob with a handshake. The tantal kits I purchased were basically as described. The $8,000 in undefolders were a different story. Suffice it to say that these were SHIT and I paid WAY too much for them (about $1800 too much) based specifically on two "facts" that Bob and Dan told me when I was standing in front of both of them in their warehouse.

"fact" #1 was that all of the kits were in such good condition that Dan had been unable to ship #2s to those that had ordered them. There just weren't any grade 2s according to what I was told. This was evidenced in Bob’s for sale thread on ARF by all of the people bragging that their #2s were like new. That’s because Dan was shipping them #1s.

"fact" #2 was that the retail price on the condition one kits had just been raised to $269. The so-called “wholesale” price had risen $30 plus shipping from the time I talked to Bob last to my arrival at the warehouse. The new “retail” price as I was told would allow enough of a profit margin to justify the new “wholesale”

Based on these two facts, I paid the new, higher price I was quoted. This was after driving almost 900 miles each direction to save $10 per kit on shipping!

I had no reason to distrust two well-established businessmen so I agreed to the price and headed home. Once I got home I realized I'd been FUCKED. Intentionally or not, I don't know. I like to think not.

So far, I have a pile of kits that are worth a hell of a lot less than I paid for them and a bunch of promises. I made Bob aware of this issue months ago and agreed to $600 of parts or cash to make up for the quality of these kits. That’s far less than it should be, but I’m grasping for whatever I can get at this point. Since I made that agreement for the $600, I sold the nicest underfolder kit I received in this batch only to have it returned because the Poles drilled to within a tenth of an inch from penetrating the chamber during the demill process. The barrel is obviously worthless on this kit. That’s more $$ down the can.

I was disabled last year and was unable to work until less than a month ago. I borrowed almost all of the money for these kits from my family and have been unable to fully repay my debt due to the shit quality of the underfolder kits I got from Bob and Dan. All I wanted was to sell a few kits to pay the bills. A $210 monthly check only gets you so far.

As to the issues listed above, some of this is from communication problems since I am in New Orleans working all the time and unable to stay in touch. The suggestion Jeepcreep made is to have Bob send the remedial parts to him (Jeep lives an under hour away from me) until I get back home. That way the whole thing can be resolved right away. I agreed to this then was unable to reach Bob after numerous calls to all of the numbers I had for him. That’s when I told Jeep that I hadn’t been able to speak with Bob. I talked to Bob last night as I was on my way to my duty for the night and he said that Dan had taken the mags he (Bob) was going to send me and wouldn’t come off of them. Now Bob says he has no mags to send me.

Bottom line is that I’m screwed and have nothing but words to solve the problem. I guess that’s what I get for trusting people and taking them at their word.

Bob says he’s going to take care of me and I hope he comes through. It’s been about five months now and I’m losing hope on it, though. I spoke with Jeepcreep several times & he is not out to screw anybody, he’s just tired of all of this dragging on and on. As soon as all of this is squared up, things will get back to normal. I have an address where I can receive items while I’m away in New Orleans.


As for all of the people piling on this thread, you don’t know what you’re talking about and need to leave the discussion.

“Nick”, I know who you are. That shit isn’t cool and I’m really disappointed.

Kyle

This is meant to be a statement of events not a personal attack on anyone. Hopefully writing things out here will be more successful than playing phone tag.




I'm getting to this thread a little late obviously. I'm working 12-15+ hours a day (and nights) and often don't have time to take a shower let alone chase all of this.

I spent over $19,000 on kits in July. I drove 900 miles each way, met with Bob and Dan, and bought six crates of kits and some mags. Dan handles the billing so I made a check to him for these items then handed it to Bob with a handshake. The tantal kits I purchased were basically as described. The $8,000 in undefolders were a different story. Suffice it to say that these were SHIT and I paid WAY too much for them (about $1800 too much) based specifically on two "facts" that Bob and Dan told me when I was standing in front of both of them in their warehouse.

"fact" #1 was that all of the kits were in such good condition that Dan had been unable to ship #2s to those that had ordered them. There just weren't any grade 2s according to what I was told. This was evidenced in Bob’s for sale thread on ARF by all of the people bragging that their #2s were like new. That’s because Dan was shipping them #1s.

"fact" #2 was that the retail price on the condition one kits had just been raised to $269. The so-called “wholesale” price had risen $30 plus shipping from the time I talked to Bob last to my arrival at the warehouse. The new “retail” price as I was told would allow enough of a profit margin to justify the new “wholesale”

Based on these two facts, I paid the new, higher price I was quoted. This was after driving almost 900 miles each direction to save $10 per kit on shipping!

I had no reason to distrust two well-established businessmen so I agreed to the price and headed home. Once I got home I realized I'd been FUCKED. Intentionally or not, I don't know. I like to think not.

So far, I have a pile of kits that are worth a hell of a lot less than I paid for them and a bunch of promises. I made Bob aware of this issue months ago and agreed to $600 of parts or cash to make up for the quality of these kits. That’s far less than it should be, but I’m grasping for whatever I can get at this point. Since I made that agreement for the $600, I sold the nicest underfolder kit I received in this batch only to have it returned because the Poles drilled to within a tenth of an inch from penetrating the chamber during the demill process. The barrel is obviously worthless on this kit. That’s more $$ down the can.

I was disabled last year and was unable to work until less than a month ago. I borrowed almost all of the money for these kits from my family and have been unable to fully repay my debt due to the shit quality of the underfolder kits I got from Bob and Dan. All I wanted was to sell a few kits to pay the bills. A $210 monthly check only gets you so far.

As to the issues listed above, some of this is from communication problems since I am in New Orleans working all the time and unable to stay in touch. The suggestion Jeepcreep made is to have Bob send the remedial parts to him (Jeep lives an under hour away from me) until I get back home. That way the whole thing can be resolved right away. I agreed to this then was unable to reach Bob after numerous calls to all of the numbers I had for him. That’s when I told Jeep that I hadn’t been able to speak with Bob. I talked to Bob last night as I was on my way to my duty for the night and he said that Dan had taken the mags he (Bob) was going to send me and wouldn’t come off of them. Now Bob says he has no mags to send me.

Bottom line is that I’m screwed and have nothing but words to solve the problem. I guess that’s what I get for trusting people and taking them at their word.

Bob says he’s going to take care of me and I hope he comes through. It’s been about five months now and I’m losing hope on it, though. I spoke with Jeepcreep several times & he is not out to screw anybody, he’s just tired of all of this dragging on and on. As soon as all of this is squared up, things will get back to normal. I have an address where I can receive items while I’m away in New Orleans.


As for all of the people piling on this thread, you don’t know what you’re talking about and need to leave the discussion.

“Nick”, I know who you are. That shit isn’t cool and I’m really disappointed.

Kyle

I don't know who you are, BUT, I know my information is accurate , timely, and pertinent to this issue. As far as the timeline for all allegations, the Polish folder and Tantal kits were not available until the end of June. I know, I was in Pittsburgh helping pack these kits up. If what I have stated in my posts is not accurate, tell me where I'm in error. These attacks seem to be directed at one half of the partnership. Why is that? It would make a 'thinking' person wonder who might be directing the editing of your posts from the other night.

I edited my own post. I explained why. There are no "attacks" as you said. I have gone out of my way to avoid that. As for "thinking" people, Jeepcreep is the only one here who fits that category. If you know so much, why was I sold shitty kits at an inflated price then put off for months waiting on a very small partial refund?

Let me guess, it's all Dan's fault, right?

hey Bob!
my first post here,thanks for donating to gunsco raffle.
case of .223 ammo.i won it and thanks again. :)

I edited my own post. I explained why. There are no "attacks" as you said. I have gone out of my way to avoid that. As for "thinking" people, Jeepcreep is the only one here who fits that category. If you know so much, why was I sold shitty kits at an inflated price then put off for months waiting on a very small partial refund?

Let me guess, it's all Dan's fault, right?

Let me get this straight, you drove to Dan's, you picked up kits at Dan's, and wrote a check to Dan.

Let me guess, it's ALL Bob's fault, right?

I edited my own post. I explained why. There are no "attacks" as you said. I have gone out of my way to avoid that. As for "thinking" people, Jeepcreep is the only one here who fits that category. If you know so much, why was I sold shitty kits at an inflated price then put off for months waiting on a very small partial refund?

Let me guess, it's all Dan's fault, right?

I seriously doubt you whole-heartedly mean that.

Then again, I don't have a dog in this fight, but why would you shell out nearly $20k and not inspect at least a sampling of the product? Or seek guarantees?

Why is Bob the one left shouldering the bulk of the blame so far? Should not the other involved parties (that you named) be called to answer for their part in these actions?

I have yet to see or hear of anyone grilling Dan? If he is/was warehouse and distribution...I would sluff Bob off and talk straight to the man.

As for all of the people piling on this thread, you don’t know what you’re talking about and need to leave the discussion.


I don't mean this in a bad way, but I should point out that this thread is about more than just you...

I'm guessing that, to your way of thinking, the recent positive experiences that many of us have had purchasing stuff from Bob don't count here, right?

Just wondering...

Forrest

I see Bob's minions....but where is Bob?

And I guess that saying anything positive makes me a minion, eh?

I'm beginning to think that Jeep is just a first name, and that it's really just Mr. Creep...

Forrest

I see all the cockroaches, but where is the fat guy dropping all the crumbs?

Anyway........
magnus
Then again, I don't have a dog in this fight, but why would you shell out nearly $20k and not inspect at least a sampling of the product? Or seek guarantees?

Why is Bob the one left shouldering the bulk of the blame so far? Should not the other involved parties (that you named) be called to answer for their part in these actions?

The reason Bob is to blame is that it was his deal! When Kyle told me what he was doing, I told him to skip Bob, and deal straight with Dan. Being an honest person Kyle said,"no, I started with Bob I need to finish the deal with Bob." Bob made the profit(and from what I am told a nice one) and needs to stand behind his deal.

I see all the cockroaches, but where is the fat guy dropping all the crumbs?

Anyway........


The reason Bob is to blame is that it was his deal! When Kyle told me what he was doing, I told him to skip Bob, and deal straight with Dan. Being an honest person Kyle said,"no, I started with Bob I need to finish the deal with Bob." Bob made the profit(and from what I am told a nice one) and needs to stand behind his deal.


Sometimes, the silence is DEAFENING! Somebody will eventually flip on the lights and then we'll see who the real cockroaches are and where they run.

I see all the cockroaches, but where is the fat guy dropping all the crumbs?

Anyway........


The reason Bob is to blame is that it was his deal! When Kyle told me what he was doing, I told him to skip Bob, and deal straight with Dan. Being an honest person Kyle said,"no, I started with Bob I need to finish the deal with Bob." Bob made the profit(and from what I am told a nice one) and needs to stand behind his deal.

Well...IMO calling folks cockroaches, and the guy you want to do something fat is not good business. Bob has been pretty professional in the wording ofhis responses, and I have no doubt will follow up on the issues at hand.

Now if he wasn't caught up in all of this mess I am willing to bet he wold have more time to work on a resolution.

So if you want to be a mediator, then mediate please and lets get all of this worked out. If you just want to fight, then stop hiding behind this "holy crusade" attitude and fight.

Jeepcreep,

First let me welcome you to the AK Files. While I am sure those on the board, including myself, can appreciate your dedication and zeal in trying to make sure those who have any complaints against Bob Williams / Akron Armory get resolution, I do not feel that your posting on the behalf of those with complaints is appropriate nor, in some cases, welcome by those whom you are attempting to represent with their complaints.

Those who have a complaint are more than welcome to post it without fear of reprisals or deletions at the hands of the board moderators, however, what appears to be your own personal jihad against Bob Williams / Akron Armory as a third party who is not involved in the issues that have been mentioned is not welcome.

deleted by cyanoamidite

cyanoamidite,

I am sorry you feel that way, however I feel that those who have a complaint need to be the ones voicing it and not a third party who may or may not be representing those who are involved in the manner in which they deem necessary in order to gain resolution to their issues.

Actually Tiny, I wasn't talking about you.

...it was more like people like FAL.I have NEVER talked to Bob, or ordered from Bob. I just don't appreciate you coming over here and stirring up trouble, claiming to speak for others, and stirring up trouble. Take your war with Bob back to where it started. Your arrogant attitude sticks out over here like a sore thumb.

Wish this board had a review forum so I could complain that this thread hadn't been moved there already.

Hey Jen!

Thanks for the welcome! Did you ever figure out how those posts by Atlantic Firearms disappeared? Also, there does appear to be some resolution that has come from my posts....but NOT by Akron Armory! Seems other vendors are watching this thread, and a couple have stepped up to the plate. If its ok with you....I'll just stick around and watch how this one plays out.

Hey Jen!

Thanks for the welcome! Did you ever figure out how those posts by Atlantic Firearms disappeared? Also, there does appear to be some resolution that has come from my posts....but NOT by Akron Armory! Seems other vendors are watching this thread, and a couple have stepped up to the plate. If its ok with you....I'll just stick around and watch how this one plays out.
If Akron Armory isn't resolving the issues, then who is?

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/sorrythisisunavailable/9698b91d.gifhttp://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/sorrythisisunavailable/a90a3b32.gif
what a joke. im outta here..

Bye, bye...

Don't let the door...

Sorry, my bad...

Forrest

If Akron Armory isn't resolving the issues, then who is?

And I'd like to know the answer to this question too...

Is it some completely uninvolved disinterested parties who just happen to be nice guys? Or other players in this drama? Or competitors?

And are you (jc) suggesting that Bob has had nothing to do with the resolutions that you're alluding to...?

Or are we dealing in rumors here?

Just wondering...

Forrest

Actually Tiny, I wasn't talking about you.

...it was more like people like FAL.

By the way, jc, this is, most likely, a blatant lie, since FAL didn't post anything until after you posted your minion comment that Tiny responded to...

Do you make this stuff up as you go, or what?

Forrest

This just gets better and better.

Hi jeepsreep.

Please don't take offence But if your going to post my screen name and the info. about my dealings with Bob all over the net could you at least let me know before hand and where you post it?

I really don't enjoy finding my business spread all over the net.
I understand that you are trying to help but I like my privacy.
Take care and God bless you and yours.
Tiny.


Jeepcreep,
I have to +1 on this... I spoke to Bob about my issue with the FCG. He said he will more than take care of it. When or if the package arrives I will post the results. I appreciate your efforts for those who have requested you represent them, but Bob W. and I can take care of the discrepancy in OUR business transaction without any further fanfare.

Bob W. and I have nothing more than a business/customer relationship, but, we share the same interests/hobby. As we all do. I don't know about anyone else, but I am fucking tired of watching firearms vendors, sellers, manufacturers, and customers kick each other in the nuts. It doesn't do any of us any good; we are all on the same side.

Simply said, if you screwed up, fix it. Period. Don't fuck around and people will respect you for your follow through.

If you want to make change, call your congressman. Think twice about screwing the guy who may well end up having your back in the next firefight.

I know my issue was not Bob's fault; he was representing another vendor who shipped out the wrong item due to an internet webpage discrepancy. No biggie… and Bob says he is taking care of it, although he has said that before, I will give him the benefit of the doubt due to our last discussion.

UPDATE

QuantumView <QuantumViewNotify@ups.com>
***Do not reply to this e-mail. UPS and Akron Armory will not receive your reply.

This message was sent to you at the request of Akron Armory to notify you that the package information below has been transmitted to UPS. The package(s) may not have actually been placed with UPS for shipment. To verify when and if the shipment is tendered to UPS and its actual transit status, click on the tracking link below or contact Akron Armory directly.

Important Delivery Information
Scheduled Delivery: 26-October-2005

Shipment Detail

Ship To:
JXXXX SXXXXX
830 XXXXXXX
CRAIG
CO
816253239
US
Number of Packages: 1
UPS Service: GROUND
Weight: 12.0 LBS


Tracking Number: 1Z9F4T470-----------

Oct 20, 2005
5:43 P.M. AKRON, OH, US ORIGIN SCAN
2:42 P.M. US BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED


Well at this point it looks like Bob is a man of his word.
I will post a up date when the package gets here.

As I have politely said before, all of those who don't have any involvement in this need to leave the discussion. You're not helping anyone.

As I have politely said before, all of those who don't have any involvement in this need to leave the discussion. You're not helping anyone.


That is the bad thing about a Public forum, anyone can play.

That being said it always involves other ppl especially when you are dealing with a vendor they deal with, and ussually are currently dealing with.

So this affects a vast number of ppl.

If you wanted it to be private, I fear the methodology is all wrong.

cyanoamidite,

I am sorry you feel that way, however I feel that those who have a complaint need to be the ones voicing it and not a third party who may or may not be representing those who are involved in the manner in which they deem necessary in order to gain resolution to their issues.

jen, i apologize to you 100% for my previous post to you, both the remarks and the pics. after thinking about it, i now understand where you are coming from in this situation as a moderator of this site. I am truly sorry for what I posted to you. It was stupid and wrong and I owe you an apology. I am very sorry. I will not post on this thread again.

as for you ftierson, you know nothing about me or my situation in this, i am a frustrated individual right now, please feel free to make any further comments to me at: thisemailreservedfordickslikeu@yahoo.com

you don't know who i am nor do you know my involvement in this issue. let's just say i am involved, and i am not a happy camper.

jen, i apologize to you 100% for my previous post to you, both the remarks and the pics. after thinking about it, i now understand where you are coming from in this situation as a moderator of this site. I am truly sorry for what I posted to you. It was stupid and wrong and I owe you an apology. I am very sorry. I will not post on this thread again.

Thanks for your apology to Jen. Your rudeness to her was what prompted my earlier comment to you. Many of us have known Jen for a long time and don't like to see her get dumped on by a new member (looking like the joining was only to allow the nasty comment to be made) when she is trying to help the "situation" out.

You're right, I don't know you or your situation, and I'm sure that you're not a happy camper. I'm sorry about that and I hope that it all works out for you.

Regarding the rest,

whatever...

Forrest

Kyle,

And as I have politely said before, "I don't mean this in a bad way, but I should point out that this thread is about more than just you..."

Should we only be involved if we want to track Bob down on every board that he posts on...?

Or should we be a "fair" mediator, like jc...?

..........................................................................................................

[QUOTE=JeepCreep]
The reason my actions are "unacceptable" is because I was brought in on your request, and didn't drink "the kool-aid"...and agree to sweep things under the rug. I am not here to mediate...as to mediate you have to have 2 parties that are willing to deal "in good faith", you are incapable of telling the truth, much less be a party to good faith negotiations. Don't worry Bob....I am not going anywhere until the listed issues are settled. I will track you down on every board you post!
..........................................................................................................

Or does the only involvement that is appropriate in your mind consist of joining in a witchhunt?

Again, I really don't mean any of this in a bad way, but I'd really like to understand why you think that it's inappropriate for those of us having positive ordering/buying experiences with Bob to comment here...

After all, whatever this thread has turned into in no way resembles any honest attempt to mediate among "wronged" parties...

Forrest

Just to keep jeepcreep list up to date... :rolleyes:

I received a package today from Akron. Not only did I recieve the FCG I was missing, but Bob included AN EXTRA FCG FOR MY TROUBLE.

Like I said before, follow through if there is a problem and people will respect you for it. Bob was true to his word.

Thanks Bob W!! :ak47:

Edit: I also wanted to note, the rifle I purchased through Bob was an ORF rifle when he was selling for them. ORF billed my credit card and ORF shipped me the rifle with the wrong trigger group, and Bob made up for it double time.

Kyle,

And as I have politely said before, "I don't mean this in a bad way, but I should point out that this thread is about more than just you..."

Should we only be involved if we want to track Bob down on every board that he posts on...?

Or should we be a "fair" mediator, like jc...?

What are you talking about?

I clearly said:

"As I have politely said before, all of those who don't have any involvement in this....."

Clearly, if you have some sort of involvement then your input is relevant.

I have been very adamant in everything I've posted here that I'm just telling of the events surrounding my deal. I've spoken with Bob about this and he understands that I'm not attacking anyone. He seems to be the only one who gets that point.

Bob asked Jeepcreep to get involved. This discussion of the situation has needlessly turned into a big wad of shit.

What are you talking about?

I clearly said:

"As I have politely said before, all of those who don't have any involvement in this....."

Clearly, if you have some sort of involvement then your input is relevant.

I have been very adamant in everything I've posted here that I'm just telling of the events surrounding my deal. I've spoken with Bob about this and he understands that I'm not attacking anyone. He seems to be the only one who gets that point.

Bob asked Jeepcreep to get involved. This discussion of the situation has needlessly turned into a big wad of shit.

Kyle,

Sorry.

I misunderstood what you were saying...

Forrest

Okay, I just want to let everyone know that Bob came through and my kit was delivered today. It looks just fine. Everything's there, and the condition is very good. Bob, I really appreciate it!

On another note, I've already said that I'm sorry all of this stuff had to happen to everyone involved... Bob, Jeepcreep, greentimber... everyone. Regardless of "who said what" and who did or didn't do what. I don't pretend to know who's version of the "truth" is right, but I'd imagine it's a mix of all versions. The important thing to me is that it appears that Bob _is_ making an attempt to make good on things, and hopefully everyone will get what's theirs.

I'd also like to add that I agree with some of the posts above about wishing that people who aren't involved in a given situation would just stay out of it. I know better than that though, in the "real world" of the internet. :rolleyes: Anyway, I've generally found it better to listen (read?) than to run my mouth when I'm not adding anything of value to the conversation. I wish more people saw things that way. I mean, I was on AR15-L ten years ago, and have watched the development of the forums (there and here), etc, etc, etc... and have seen stuff like this happen over and over and over. Every single time it does, it seems like half to three quarters of the posts on the thread are bullshit from people with no dog in the fight. What the hell though... I guess the world would be a boring place with no assholes around, right? :evil: :D

Just to keep jeepcreep list up to date... :rolleyes:

I received a package today from Akron. Not only did I recieve the FCG I was missing, but Bob included AN EXTRA FCG FOR MY TROUBLE.

Like I said before, follow through if there is a problem and people will respect you for it. Bob was true to his word.

Thanks Bob W!! :ak47:

<font color=red><b>Edit: I also wanted to note, the rifle I purchased through Bob was an ORF rifle when he was selling for them. ORF billed my credit card and ORF shipped me the rifle with the wrong trigger group, and Bob made up for it double time.</font></b>


Thanks Rjb_213!


Please note the extreme importance of this comment by <b>Rjb_213</b>!

This was <b>NOT</b> an <i>AKRON ARMORY</i> sale,.. "UNDELIVERED AFTER PAYMENT",.. as claimed by others in prior posts.

This was a Rifle which I took the order for while working as a phone sales representative for Ohio Rapid Fire. The sale was CREDIT CARD CHARGED and SHIPPED to Rjb_213's FFL by Ohio Rapid Fire.

Simply,.. Rjb_213 was expecting a "Red Star Arms" trigger group to be in his AKs-74, and his rifle was supplied with a different type.


This "issue" results from a MIS-UNDERSTANDING and MIS-COMMUNICATION between MULTIPLE PARTIES, and NOTHING more. It is typical of all of these issues that need to be resolved.

There have been NO ATTEMPTS to do anything IMPROPER!





Okay, I just want to let everyone know that Bob came through and my kit was delivered today. It looks just fine. Everything's there, and the condition is very good. Bob, I really appreciate it!

On another note, I've already said that I'm sorry all of this stuff had to happen to everyone involved... Bob, Jeepcreep, greentimber... everyone. Regardless of "who said what" and who did or didn't do what. I don't pretend to know who's version of the "truth" is right, but I'd imagine it's a mix of all versions. ,<font color=red><b>The important thing to me is that it appears that Bob _is_ making an attempt to make good on things, and hopefully everyone will get what's theirs.</b></font>


I'd also like to add that I agree with some of the posts above about wishing that people who aren't involved in a given situation would just stay out of it. I know better than that though, in the "real world" of the internet. :rolleyes: Anyway, I've generally found it better to listen (read?) than to run my mouth when I'm not adding anything of value to the conversation. I wish more people saw things that way.,<font color=red><b> I mean, I was on AR15-L ten years ago, and have watched the development of the forums (there and here), etc, etc, etc... and have seen stuff like this happen over and over and over.</b></font> Every single time it does, it seems like half to three quarters of the posts on the thread are bullshit from people with no dog in the fight. What the hell though... I guess the world would be a boring place with no assholes around, right? :evil: :D



Thanks tim503!


You are RIGHT,.. I am making sure of it!

For months I was answering the phone talking with my customers, taking orders and faxing them in, all along thinking everyone was getting what they ordered. I had no idea this was happening.

<b>If there is an issue, I will take care of it.</b>


That being said,..the "enhancing" of issues, and the fevered "piling on" of claims with no merit has not helped expedite these remedies.

Also, in my opinion, there have been some extremely damaging comments made about me on a personal and business basis in this and another public forum, that are currently under review.

Thank you,

Actually, Bob's recent comments remind me once again how much the direction of this thread annoys me, starting with JeepCreep's attacks as the self-appointed jello sheriff of someone else's house. I especially feel that way after just reading down through his comments about Bob in the AK47 forum over at AR15.com. Talk about personal attacks without allowing Bob any ability to defend himself... Personally, if a moderator of mine did what he (JeepCreep) has done, I'd show him the door... I don't know what his agenda is, but serving as a fair mediator certainly isn't it. But maybe that's just me. This is just my opinion, after all, and we all know what opinions are like...

I'm also bothered by seeing the cast of individuals who are watching this thread and saying nothing... A bunch of these individuals are involved in all this. The only person I see attempting to fix any of the problems, and they're usually not ones of his making, is Bob. Where are these other vendors that are stepping up to the plate? In addition, might they be the vendors that should have stepped up to the plate long ago anyway?

Here are a couple of examples to illustrate my point. Early this year, I ordered a Bulgarian AK-74 Folder kit from Bob (from his falfiles ad). I ordered it with a black bayonet and an additional ten Factory 10 magazines... What I received (shipped from Dan's) was a beautiful new AK-74 folder with a broken lower handguard (black synthetic unique to the folder), an orange bayonet and ten magazines, none of which were Factory 10 ones (a mix of Factory 21 and 25). This order included a copy of the FAX that Bob had sent to Dan's, clearly stating, in big bold letters, that a black bayonet and Factory 10 mags should be included. Bob's fault, right? I called Bob and told him the "problem," and he immediately said that he'd get me a replacement lower handguard. I told him that I could live with the orange bayonet, and that it wasn't worth fussing over. Bob then went out of his way, after finding no Factory 10 mags at Dan's, to find some at ORF. I kept the original ten mags, and ordered another ten Factory 10 mags, which came from ORF. Bob's falfiles price was $7.99 each delivered. ORF charged me $7.49 each, but an additional $10 for shipping. So I ended up paying about $5 more than I "should have" paid. But I didn't bother either Bob or ORF about this small difference, especially since Bob had to do extra work to find them. (Thus, a "problem" that couldn't be fixed by Bob or ORF because they didn't know it existed... At least, they didn't know that it existed until now, which is how some of these "other" problems have probably come to light, too).

In addition, a little while later, I ordered a wood stock Bulgarian AK-74 kit from Bob (again from his falfiles ad). This kit was delivered from ORF, and I was charged $10 for shipping while it was supposed to be sent shipping paid... I called ORF and they immediately credited me with the $10. In addition, this kit was sent without a magazine. One magazine was supposed to be included with the kit. I originally had asked for a black magazine. I told Bob about this and he quickly offered to send me a new Russian plum magazine to make up for it... Was it Bob's fault that ORF didn't send the mag with the kit? By the way, I'm not slamming ORF here either because I never talked to them about the mag problem so, obviously, they couldn't "fix" it.

These are just a couple of examples of my order experiences that are related to comments in this thread. I'm guessing that most of the "problems" that JeepCreep lists are the result of similar problems relating to miscommunication among the several vendor parties in all this. I find it somewhat disappointing to see all the other vendors sitting around and saying nothing while Bob is attacked, especially since I'm sure that some of the problems can be laid at their feet. It looks like Bob is out there trying to make all his commitments good, and I'm guessing that he's trying to do this while cut off from some of the supplies he should have access to given where the problems originated.

The mark of the man is in how he owns up to his mistakes and takes care of his problems. I see Bob trying to take care of his problems, even when many of them appear not to be "his," if you know what I mean. I don't see any of the other vendors involved owning up to any mistakes or attempting to fix any of the problems (except for veiled references in the attack-mode comments of another website's moderator).

This is how I currently see things. Perhaps I'm wrong in some of it. However, given the lack of other comments, it's probably what I'll continue to think. And, I should add, what I think does influence my buying habits...

For what it's worth (recognizing that no one paid anything for it and all that...)

Forrest

I'm happy to say that Bob came through for me with the refund I had requested back in August. It seems my patience paid off, because Bob also gave me 4 7.62 magazines to make up for the long delay. As unpopular as this may be on this board, I also want to express my thanks to Jeepcreep for stepping up to the plate and trying to work things out between Bob and others such as myself where things went awry. I don't have anything negative to say about either Bob or Jeepcreep, ultimately they both came to my aid, and things worked out well. I wish the best for both of them.

Bob has always done me right, ALWAYS. Whether I buy one kit, or 4-5kits and mags...ALways a pleasure to deal with.

Hi Bob.
I just wanted to thank you for my Polish under folder kit that came in today.
She's top notch all the way man!!! :D

She's going to be a SWEEEEET rifle when I get done slapping her together.

Jeepcreep can you please add to your list that my issue is resolved and that Bob lived up to his word and delivered the kit with in the time frame that was agreed upon.
Bob said that he would start work on my kit on 10/19 and that I would receive with in one-two weeks.
I received it today on 10/26 so that's one week......That sounds like a reasonable time frame to me.

+1! I have sat by and watched what is going on long enough. If some people would have let this play itself out it would have been fine on the customer end.

Dan was shipping the product that Bob was selling (think about that). Lets not forget that Bob was selling ORF stuff too.

Bob is not the only person in this mess. I also happen to know that Nick F is probably right on target even if his delivery was coarse.

All I can say is give the man a chance before delivering the death blow from the lynch mob that seems to have been organized against him.

I've been told I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, but at least I will give the parties here a chance to get a bad situation settled before I run them all down.


Jeepcreep,

First let me welcome you to the AK Files. While I am sure those on the board, including myself, can appreciate your dedication and zeal in trying to make sure those who have any complaints against Bob Williams / Akron Armory get resolution, I do not feel that your posting on the behalf of those with complaints is appropriate nor, in some cases, welcome by those whom you are attempting to represent with their complaints.

Those who have a complaint are more than welcome to post it without fear of reprisals or deletions at the hands of the board moderators, however, what appears to be your own personal jihad against Bob Williams / Akron Armory as a third party who is not involved in the issues that have been mentioned is not welcome.

+1 again



Actually, Bob's recent comments remind me once again how much the direction of this thread annoys me, starting with JeepCreep's attacks as the self-appointed jello sheriff of someone else's house. I especially feel that way after just reading down through his comments about Bob in the AK47 forum over at AR15.com. Talk about personal attacks without allowing Bob any ability to defend himself... Personally, if a moderator of mine did what he (JeepCreep) has done, I'd show him the door... I don't know what his agenda is, but serving as a fair mediator certainly isn't it. But maybe that's just me. This is just my opinion, after all, and we all know what opinions are like...

I'm also bothered by seeing the cast of individuals who are watching this thread and saying nothing... A bunch of these individuals are involved in all this. The only person I see attempting to fix any of the problems, and they're usually not ones of his making, is Bob. Where are these other vendors that are stepping up to the plate? In addition, might they be the vendors that should have stepped up to the plate long ago anyway?

Here are a couple of examples to illustrate my point. Early this year, I ordered a Bulgarian AK-74 Folder kit from Bob (from his falfiles ad). I ordered it with a black bayonet and an additional ten Factory 10 magazines... What I received (shipped from Dan's) was a beautiful new AK-74 folder with a broken lower handguard (black synthetic unique to the folder), an orange bayonet and ten magazines, none of which were Factory 10 ones (a mix of Factory 21 and 25). This order included a copy of the FAX that Bob had sent to Dan's, clearly stating, in big bold letters, that a black bayonet and Factory 10 mags should be included. Bob's fault, right? I called Bob and told him the "problem," and he immediately said that he'd get me a replacement lower handguard. I told him that I could live with the orange bayonet, and that it wasn't worth fussing over. Bob then went out of his way, after finding no Factory 10 mags at Dan's, to find some at ORF. I kept the original ten mags, and ordered another ten Factory 10 mags, which came from ORF. Bob's falfiles price was $7.99 each delivered. ORF charged me $7.49 each, but an additional $10 for shipping. So I ended up paying about $5 more than I "should have" paid. But I didn't bother either Bob or ORF about this small difference, especially since Bob had to do extra work to find them. (Thus, a "problem" that couldn't be fixed by Bob or ORF because they didn't know it existed... At least, they didn't know that it existed until now, which is how some of these "other" problems have probably come to light, too).

In addition, a little while later, I ordered a wood stock Bulgarian AK-74 kit from Bob (again from his falfiles ad). This kit was delivered from ORF, and I was charged $10 for shipping while it was supposed to be sent shipping paid... I called ORF and they immediately credited me with the $10. In addition, this kit was sent without a magazine. One magazine was supposed to be included with the kit. I originally had asked for a black magazine. I told Bob about this and he quickly offered to send me a new Russian plum magazine to make up for it... Was it Bob's fault that ORF didn't send the mag with the kit? By the way, I'm not slamming ORF here either because I never talked to them about the mag problem so, obviously, they couldn't "fix" it.

These are just a couple of examples of my order experiences that are related to comments in this thread. I'm guessing that most of the "problems" that JeepCreep lists are the result of similar problems relating to miscommunication among the several vendor parties in all this. I find it somewhat disappointing to see all the other vendors sitting around and saying nothing while Bob is attacked, especially since I'm sure that some of the problems can be laid at their feet. It looks like Bob is out there trying to make all his commitments good, and I'm guessing that he's trying to do this while cut off from some of the supplies he should have access to given where the problems originated.

The mark of the man is in how he owns up to his mistakes and takes care of his problems. I see Bob trying to take care of his problems, even when many of them appear not to be "his," if you know what I mean. I don't see any of the other vendors involved owning up to any mistakes or attempting to fix any of the problems (except for veiled references in the attack-mode comments of another website's moderator).

This is how I currently see things. Perhaps I'm wrong in some of it. However, given the lack of other comments, it's probably what I'll continue to think. And, I should add, what I think does influence my buying habits...

For what it's worth (recognizing that no one paid anything for it and all that...)

Forrest

As I have politely said before, all of those who don't have any involvement in this need to leave the discussion. You're not helping anyone.

Quite entertaining since this is on a open discussion forum. Should have kept it private and maybe persued it as a civil court matter?

Hootbro

By the way, after writing what follows from memory, I later went back through my records and realized that I have left one small item out of all this that I need to add now. While I was certainly not trying to discuss all my buying experiences with Bob/Dan/Todd (and possibly others) in the two short examples that I used, I did forget a quick item that bears on the example. I have inserted that into the text of my original post which I've quoted here, and I've used red to show the added material.

Sorry for using the entire quote, but I wanted to be sure that it was clear where the added material needed to go...

Actually, Bob's recent comments remind me once again how much the direction of this thread annoys me, starting with JeepCreep's attacks as the self-appointed jello sheriff of someone else's house. I especially feel that way after just reading down through his comments about Bob in the AK47 forum over at AR15.com. Talk about personal attacks without allowing Bob any ability to defend himself... Personally, if a moderator of mine did what he (JeepCreep) has done, I'd show him the door... I don't know what his agenda is, but serving as a fair mediator certainly isn't it. But maybe that's just me. This is just my opinion, after all, and we all know what opinions are like...

I'm also bothered by seeing the cast of individuals who are watching this thread and saying nothing... A bunch of these individuals are involved in all this. The only person I see attempting to fix any of the problems, and they're usually not ones of his making, is Bob. Where are these other vendors that are stepping up to the plate? In addition, might they be the vendors that should have stepped up to the plate long ago anyway?

Here are a couple of examples to illustrate my point. Early this year, I ordered a Bulgarian AK-74 Folder kit from Bob (from his falfiles ad). I ordered it with a black bayonet and an additional ten Factory 10 magazines... What I received (shipped from Dan's) was a beautiful new AK-74 folder with a broken lower handguard (black synthetic unique to the folder), an orange bayonet and ten magazines, none of which were Factory 10 ones (a mix of Factory 21 and 25). This order included a copy of the FAX that Bob had sent to Dan's, clearly stating, in big bold letters, that a black bayonet and Factory 10 mags should be included. Bob's fault, right? I called Bob and told him the "problem," and he immediately said that he'd get me a replacement lower handguard. I told him that I could live with the orange bayonet, and that it wasn't worth fussing over. I'm assuming that Bob called Dan because I then received a note from Dan stating that I shouldn't be hard on Bob about the "wrong" magazines being sent because they (at Dan's) didn't have many Factory 10 mags in the containers that had been opened. Dan mentioned that he was only able to find six Factory 10 mags among the many other AK-74 Factory Code mags that they had in stock when he attempted to respond to my comments about not receiving the ones that I was supposed to get. I purchased these mags from him (in addition to the ten other non-Factory 10 mags that I had been sent originally(and as I just mentioned above)). Bob then went out of his way, after finding no Factory 10 mags at Dan's, to find some at ORF. I kept the original ten mags, and ordered another ten Factory 10 mags, which came from ORF. Bob's falfiles price was $7.99 each delivered. ORF charged me $7.49 each, but an additional $10 for shipping. So I ended up paying about $5 more than I "should have" paid. But I didn't bother either Bob or ORF about this small difference, especially since Bob had to do extra work to find them. (Thus, a "problem" that couldn't be fixed by Bob or ORF because they didn't know it existed... At least, they didn't know that it existed until now, which is how some of these "other" problems have probably come to light, too).

In addition, a little while later, I ordered a wood stock Bulgarian AK-74 kit from Bob (again from his falfiles ad). This kit was delivered from ORF, and I was charged $10 for shipping while it was supposed to be sent shipping paid... I called ORF and they immediately credited me with the $10. In addition, this kit was sent without a magazine. One magazine was supposed to be included with the kit. I originally had asked for a black magazine. I told Bob about this and he quickly offered to send me a new Russian plum magazine to make up for it... Was it Bob's fault that ORF didn't send the mag with the kit? By the way, I'm not slamming ORF here either because I never talked to them about the mag problem so, obviously, they couldn't "fix" it.

These are just a couple of examples of my order experiences that are related to comments in this thread. I'm guessing that most of the "problems" that JeepCreep lists are the result of similar problems relating to miscommunication among the several vendor parties in all this. I find it somewhat disappointing to see all the other vendors sitting around and saying nothing while Bob is attacked, especially since I'm sure that some of the problems can be laid at their feet. It looks like Bob is out there trying to make all his commitments good, and I'm guessing that he's trying to do this while cut off from some of the supplies he should have access to given where the problems originated.

The mark of the man is in how he owns up to his mistakes and takes care of his problems. I see Bob trying to take care of his problems, even when many of them appear not to be "his," if you know what I mean. I don't see any of the other vendors involved owning up to any mistakes or attempting to fix any of the problems (except for veiled references in the attack-mode comments of another website's moderator).

This is how I currently see things. Perhaps I'm wrong in some of it. However, given the lack of other comments, it's probably what I'll continue to think. And, I should add, what I think does influence my buying habits...

For what it's worth (recognizing that no one paid anything for it and all that...)

Forrest

Bob has always been very good to me. I had an issue with a bayonet one time, for some reason it wouldnt; fit on the rifle at all. I told Bob and sent it back to him. He not only sent me another bayonet, but actually found me a Russian Plum bayonet with matching scabbard! WAY COOL! AS for the other strings in this mess, I can say that the '74 I bought from ORF also has the wrong trigger group in it as well... sounds like an ORF issue to me. I also had several isues with ORF involving my M92 kit; I was cahrged the wrong price, and then had to wait for my can to show up. When it showed up, the threads weren't correct, adn it had to be shipped back to be fixed. It held up my build for nearly a month. Never dealt with Dan's.

It would seem to me that all teh people who are willing to say "bob did me right" or "bob fixed my issue" are involved much like charector witnesses. If 99% of the population is saying "yay", then surely it can;t be that bad. After all, there will Always be mistakes, and there will always be people who are unnhappy.

"you cannot please all the people all the time."

Now, that being said. I hope those couple of issues that might still be out there get fixed relatively soon, I don;t want anyone to feel they got "scewed". But in short, it seems blatantly obvious to me that Bob's charector speaks for itself.

Perhaps I should buy a Vendor's sponsorship... then I could use it to fuel my own personal vendetta's from the bottom of a bottle. This way, "might makes right".

Incidentaly, that comment is not directed at "jeep" or "grentimber", but rather, someone else who has remained silent to the public, ad roaring behind the scenes. My personal stake with that person... My "issues" that were never resolved. Those who live in glass houses, and all that....

All has become...... "Quite on the Western front" ????

Or......


"The silence of the lambs"???

All has become...... "Quite on the Western front" ????

Or......


"The silence of the lambs"???


or a much ado about nothin'.........who knows, I will say this like I did earlier, all this could have been avoided if people use their credit cards to buy stuff, instead of money orders. a CC can give you a lot more power over someone that didn't delivery a product, insteady of kissing their ass to get what you bought, you simple just call up the CC company, and they will gladly take the money out of company's bank account, so you aren't stuck with no money and no product.........no fuss, no muss.

CREDIT CARDS.........don't buy without them :D

or a much ado about nothin'.........who knows, I will say this like I did earlier, all this could have been avoided if people use their credit cards to buy stuff, instead of money orders. a CC can give you a lot more power over someone that didn't delivery a product, insteady of kissing their ass to get what you bought, you simple just call up the CC company, and they will gladly take the money out of company's bank account, so you aren't stuck with no money and no product.........no fuss, no muss.

CREDIT CARDS.........don't buy without them :D

Pete,

For PETE's SAKE!

This series of events has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the Credit Card/Money Order issue as you present it.

This is a simple issue of me accepting orders from a sales point and the orders <b>NOT</b> being processed in a timely manner at the shipping point as previously agreed between associates. I had no idea that the customers had not received their product.

The people that had not received their "Kits" paid for with MONEY ORDERS, and again without my knowledge of these shortages, have been satisfied by ME from a SYMPATHETIC VENDOR's inventory.

ALL THREE OF THEM.

Everyone that sent a MONEY ORDER to BOB WILLIAMS for product has now received their product. There was no special ass-kissing to be done to get what you paid for.

Several CREDIT CARD orders that were taken by me then faxed to the shipping point to be processed and charged had run afoul. Some people were charged and did not receive their kits. These are being rectified at the shipping point.


The other issues of "parts missing or damaged" that were, in my opinion, not inside of my scope of responsabilities in my agreement with my former associate, have ALSO been handled by ME,...AGAIN,.. from the inventory of another sympathetic vendor.

These shortages were issues between my former associate and I that have been over-blown when played out, in what appears to be an improper fashion, by other parties in various public forums.

Making comments as you have, in my opinion, insinuate that you need to use a Credit Card to deal with BOB WILLIAMS to be assured of performance on my part.

Please refrain from commenting here or on other boards, (as you have) on a topic that you are not involved with, or have no knowledge of the particulars.

Anyhoo,..If you need particulars, you may call me. You are CLOSE ENOUGH!

Bob I think enough ppl know this guy well enough to take him with a grain (or 50lb sack) of salt.

Bob I think enough ppl know this guy well enough to take him with a grain (or 50lb sack) of salt.

Magnus392,

Aw heck,..Pete's a decent enough guy and a credit to OUR "Gun Community"!

I know him personally. I like him. He just, as many others do, comes across a bit on the coarse side on the "net". Kinda like W.T. Sherman would.

Pete is "Ex-Military" with "rank". A good soul.

He's just Pete. I have told him before,..Georgia should be CAPITALIZED!

:wink_smal

PS,..Even Sherman would pay Georgia that much respect.

Magnus392,

Aw heck,..Pete's a decent enough guy and a credit to OUR "Gun Community"!

I know him personally. I like him. He just, as many others do, comes across a bit on the coarse side on the "net". Kinda like W.T. Sherman would.

Pete is "Ex-Military" with "rank". A good soul.

He's just Pete. I have told him before,..Georgia should be CAPITALIZED!

:wink_smal

PS,..Even Sherman would pay Georgia that much respect.

Well you can give him the benefit of the doubt, but I ignore him most of the time, lol:D

Well, over two months have gone by since the last post and it remains quiet...

Over two months have gone by during which a couple of the other players in all this could have bellied up to the bar, admitted their part in all that Bob was blamed for, and arranged to help solve the problems that they, at the very least, helped to create...

But they haven't...

My future buying patterns will be adjusted accordingly...

Also, I notice that, while the AR15.com thread that bashed Bob was kept alive and clearly visible in a much visited forum for an extended period of time, the much more recent thread about more serious problems that people are having with Todd and ORF was quickly removed from the AK47 forum and "buried" in the equipment exchange forum over at AR15.com...

All this certainly sounds like some uneven and unequal treatment to me. It certainly makes me wonder about what kind of agendas are being pursued...

But perhaps I just don't understand what's going on...

Forrest

Money talks....in FEW places does right and wrong matter anymore.

Forrest,

Keep your eyes peeled. There is PLENTY going on in plain sight.

Take a look at AR15.com. What is the commotion? Where are my antagonists now?

Are they forming another BOARD altogether?

Interesting.

Forrest my friend,...BARBEQUING is a SLOW PROCESS!

:wink_smal

Most of the AK side seems to have picked up and left forming a new board.

Why?

:wink_smal

Why?

:wink_smal


Because we got tired of the whole "stink" of advertising fees and membership fees. There is an inherent conflict of interest when you try to satisfy both parties...


The AK Forum Mission Statement:

"Provide a free discussion board where advertisers and members work together to promote the acquisition, assembly, and ownership of some of the finest Kalashnikov variants available on the market...where both parties understand it's about the Kalashnikov, not the money."


I think Miss RSA hit it right on the head......

It's about the Kalashnikov...not the money." (http://www.redstararms.com/MissRSAFANCLUB.wmv)

Because we got tired of the whole "stink" of advertising fees and membership fees. There is an inherent conflict of interest when you try to satisfy both parties...


The AK Forum Mission Statement:

"Provide a free discussion board where advertisers and members work together to promote the acquisition, assembly, and ownership of some of the finest Kalashnikov variants available on the market...where both parties understand it's about the Kalashnikov, not the money."


I think Miss RSA hit it right on the head......

It's about the Kalashnikov...not the money." (http://www.redstararms.com/MissRSAFANCLUB.wmv)


Troy,

Are you telling everyone that you are through representing the interests of a particular "vendor" and that you are no longer webmaster for this "vendor"?

Are you now going to promote fairness and honor among men after pushing an "honestly posed" tread full of negative comment and concerns from OLD MEMBERS of AR15.com about your personal "vendor" into obscurity? And you now say,..."IT AINT THE MONEY?"

In my opinion, It was obvious to all that it IS THE MONEY when your personal "vendor'" responds to an AR15.com member's posted question, ...."Why was Akron Armory treated so poorly here on AR15.com,...and THIS OTHER VENDOR PROTECTED?"

You "vendor" replied in the same thread,..."Akron Armory is NOT a SPONSOR here on AR15.com,...I AM!"

Where is that "thread" now?

Are you telling me that after spending time as an AR15.com ADMINISTRATOR and letting your present "associate" bash me around like a junk yard dog, even resorting to immature and un-professional name calling, during a slanderous attack on me as a person, that you have seen the light?

Are you saying after the realization that these attacks were UNFOUNDED and in the opinion of many....MALICIOUS,...without any public admission of overzealousness or even APOLOGY on your "associate's" part,...ALL IS OK?

Are you and Rotdorn ("Jeepcreep") now telling the "Old Guard" on GUNCO that the banning, bashing, and personal attacks against their longtime and honored member "555th" by your "associate",... is now in the PAST?

Let us all be friends and SMILE?

Are you now offering an "Olive Branch" to all?



Why don't you call me, ...or email me your number and I'll drop the dime.

Regards,

Bob

I still help Ohio Rapid Fire with their website. It helps me stay proficient with Frontpage. The shopping cart portion is supported by Antares (Joe L.).

Not sure where you're going with the fairness and honor comment. Any threads concerning vendors, feedback, etc. are still on AR15.COM to the best of my knowledge. You can either find them in a search (3 months back) or you can search the archive. Their all there. Someone inquired a few weeks back, and believe I was able to point him via hyperlinks to all the threads in question.

As I said.....there is an inherent conflict of interest when you have two parties paying fees on a discussion board. That's why I chose to pay everything out of my pocket. Members get everything I can possibly offer for free, and vendors get the same, but they are considered "guests" on my board. I think I pretty much explained it on my board within the "origin of the AK Forum" thread.

"Seen the light" ?? Not sure what you mean. My associate, my friend, was looking out after the interests of members on his board. To the best of my knowledge, the issues were finally resolved.

"Are you saying"........No. You're saying it, not me. The way I see things, every customer deserves the best possible service before, during, and after sales. 90% customer satisfaction doesn't cut it, because you still have the 10% percent left hanging. You're a great salesman, I think you understand what I'm saying.

I've got nothing but respect for everyone on Gunco. They have a great board, great membership, and the administrator is a friend of mine. The transaction between the two parties is between them. When everyone else gets involved, it becomes a pile on, everyone gets hurt, and no clear winner emerges. The same for you and Todd Grove. You guys can work out the unresolved issues yourselves....you don't need any of us to get involved.

"Olive Branch" ?? For what? I'm not aware of any war that transpired in the past.

I responded to this thread because the question arose on why there was a departure from AR15.COM.....I think I adequately answered the question to all who wanted to know.

You've got some great products for sale. Take care of all your internal, as well as external customers, and I'm sure business will abound.

Take care,

Troy


Troy,

Are you telling everyone that you are through representing the interests of a particular "vendor" and that you are no longer webmaster for this "vendor"?

Are you now going to promote fairness and honor among men after pushing an "honestly posed" tread full of negative comment and concerns from OLD MEMBERS of AR15.com about your personal "vendor" into obscurity? And you now say,..."IT AINT THE MONEY?"

In my opinion, It was obvious to all that it IS THE MONEY when your personal "vendor'" responds to an AR15.com member's posted question, ...."Why was Akron Armory treated so poorly here on AR15.com,...and THIS OTHER VENDOR PROTECTED?"

You "vendor" replied in the same thread,..."Akron Armory is NOT a SPONSOR here on AR15.com,...I AM!"

Where is that "thread" now?

Are you telling me that after spending time as an AR15.com ADMINISTRATOR and letting your present "associate" bash me around like a junk yard dog, even resorting to immature and un-professional name calling, during a slanderous attack on me as a person, that you have seen the light?

Are you saying after the realization that these attacks were UNFOUNDED and in the opinion of many....MALICIOUS,...without any public admission of overzealousness or even APOLOGY on your "associate's" part,...ALL IS OK?

Are you and Rotdorn ("Jeepcreep") now telling the "Old Guard" on GUNCO that the banning, bashing, and personal attacks against their longtime and honored member "555th" by your "associate",... is now in the PAST?

Let us all be friends and SMILE?

Are you now offering an "Olive Branch" to all?



Why don't you call me, ...or email me your number and I'll drop the dime.

Regards,

Bob

I responded to this thread because the question arose on why there was a departure from AR15.COM.....I think I adequately answered the question to all who wanted to know.




Is it not WONDERFUL to be able to respond to a question HERE on an OPEN board like "AK Files",. without the fear of being BANNED before you can respond to such a tiny inquisition as the one about your new "venue".

Good Luck to you Troy, many hope history does NOT repeat itself.


Bob

Here is there new forum.
http://www.akforum.net/phpBB2/index.php

After reading all this and then checking into threads at ar.15 I can say the akforum is a site I will never bother with. What is that old saying...Garbage in - Garbage out.

I have never dealt with Bob but would do so at the drop of the hat. All I hear is good and when there is bad he seems to take care of it asap - you cannot ask for me.
I will however remember those who could have come to the table as it were and manned up about their direct involvement in the flap and did not - they can expect NO business of mine.

I also have a new respect for this site - being able to put things into the open and discuss them prevents one-sided attacks by those with agenda's.

Hats off to the Mods and to Bob.

I have undeleted the thread as requested by recon-1 and locked it as "it has run its course".