View Full Version : Been Hunting?
12-27-2003, 08:24 PM
I owned a 7.62x39. Without regard to what the Democrats say, I took mine hunting. That was my edge; game would see me and say those guns arn't made for hunting. They are only for folks going postal and they would let their guard down, then well you can figure it out. Jokes aside does anyone have any info on how the bullet from the 74 reacts with whitetail deer? I have been playing with the idea of getting one. I don't even know if sp or hp bullets are available for the caliber. I've tried them with the 223 and got all 4 but it did a really poor job. 7.62x39 is fair but not like a real caliber like 06 or 308. If you have any stories about the 74's caliber and deer I would love to hear about it although I think I know what its gonna be. Thanks.
12-28-2003, 07:47 AM
Most states have a requirement that bullets be larger than .22 caliber for hunting - AK74 is actually .21 caliber. I think it's "playing with fire" to take an AK74 into the woods where a game warden might want to make an "example" out of you.
12-28-2003, 02:07 PM
What he said. If you can't hunt with .223, don't try it with 5.45.
The 7.62x39 is about equivalent to .30-30, and that's taken more deer than 06 and .308 combined. Russian HP is a joke, with the steek case, but Barnaul makes a SP with 125gr and Wolf SP is 154gr. The Barnaul is a good hunting bullet; I've never used the Wolf, but it should be good too.
A good shoulder shot with 7.62 or 5.45, even in FMJ, should take a deer down.
12-28-2003, 08:16 PM
Pakrat you are on my train of thought. On paper it should be like a 30-30. I had some of the crummy hp like you said, and if my memory serves me right one was with sp.They all went down instantly but unlike any other rifle I have hunted with they stayed alive a long time. Kept trying to pick their head up and move their feet. All were good shoulder hits. None of them had any success but it really worried me. The last one had a head full of horns so I just shot him 2 more times. When he finally relaxed he slid down a STEEP hill so I got a good workout.Then I went back to the bolt gun.One year I used a 30-30 and it is a killing machine.Ballistics are ok on paper but there is just something about it that puts them down hard. The 3006 is much more powerful and they all kill, but all of my deer ran less if at all with the 30-30.Before I used it, I didn't have a very high opinion of it. I guess because they have been around forever; not high teck enough.Live and learn. My AR sucked so bad I sold it, don't want any more.Once again all in the shoulder but with the 223 they all ran about 70 yds with no blood trail at all, it wasn't necessary but I like to look at the forensics I guess. I used sp and the exit wound sometimes could not be found until skinning time. All the above calibers messed up the insides a great deal and they all were good as dead but sooner or later your not gonna have the perfect shot or your gonna put it in the wrong place and then the smaller calibers are gonna bite you.Guess I better stay with the 30 cal. I may just take a 7.62x39 with me when I feel sporty. Just wanted to see if anyone had any stories to tell. Thanks.
Cracked Wind Shield
In general....I think you would do better with the 150gr. plus bullet weight in the 7.62x39 for big game........same said for the 30/30.
Even then, depending on the animals state at the moment, not much guarantee's a kill immediately with a vital shot....even a heart shot.
I have seen black bear, antelope, moose and numerous deer that just did not stop right away with a direct heart shot (for example) traveling 25 to 50 yards before expiring and short of a heart shot, even farther....much farther. I have also seen some drop on the spot.
But I think the 7.62x39 could use a 150gr. minimum weight of bullets a better option for hunting.
There was one .224 dia. bullet that was developed for larger game.....and it was tested extensively by a Fish and Game officer dispatching big game over a period of time, before the bullet was offered to the public. That bullet is the Speer 70 gr. semi spitzer.
But I would still be more comfortable with a larger caliber regardless.
01-02-2004, 12:24 PM
A big advantage in terminal ballistics of teh .30-30 is the flat-nosed bullet. It ruins the ballistic coefficient, but that nose hits hard, and the 170gr mass bulls through a lot of tissue.
Based on what PPRO said (and a lot of corrrespondence with him) I think I would use Wolf 154gr SP if I was going with commercial loads, or a 150gr SP for reloading.
The shoulder shot is for taking animals down; the best shot for a quick kill (other than a brain or spinal cord shot) is just above the heart, in the tangle of large veins and arteries there. They won't be getting any more blood delivered; the brain and muscles will only last as long as the locally-stored oxygen holds out. If I were hunting, I would carry a pistol (.22, or larger if that's what you have) for final kills, and learn the location of the brain stem so I could place the bullet properly (and damaging the head as little as possible if it's trophy quality.
In Florida the AK was very popular among hog hunters, because hunting is limited to 5-rnd mags, but you can carry as many as you want; and because an "average" hog is about 150 pounds, and probably comes from parents that have been feral for 10s if not 100s of years. They aren't an animal to fool with. And a .30-30 will ricochet off the skull in a frontal shot.
01-07-2004, 04:16 AM
Guess I'd have to agree the 5.45 is less than optimum for deer size game. It's fun for groundhogs though. I've used both fmj and sp with good results. It doesn't seem nearly as "explosive" as 5.56 varmint loads but the end result is all the same: dead varmint!
I'd love to deer hunt with a 7.62x39 AK but rifles aren't allowed in Ohio. One of these days I'll have to hook up with some of the local guys who trek to West Virginia to hunt with their rifles.
01-07-2004, 06:36 PM
The 5.56, from a 20" barrel or under 100 yds (as long as the velocity is above about 2500 fps) starts to tumble, then the base (below the channelure on the bullet) fragments. Those particles of lead and jacketing material hit the stretched tissue during the expansion of the temporary cavity and tear it like a pin-prick in a balloon. 5.45 tumbles, but doesn't fragment that way.
01-19-2004, 05:53 PM
That's a thought provoking question you've got there, Cracked Wind Shield.
Back on my farm, I'd sure try the 5.45mm out on doe or three. Sadly, I lacked a carbine in that caliber at the time ... yet I'd use one today.
As for its cousin, the 5.54mmNATO, I discounted it out of hand for Virginia White Tail.
My experience was that the M-43 cartridge (7.62x39mm) worked fine in ball and softpoint this side of 100-yards.
Took my first w/ a PolyTech Legend downfolder and one Hansen's-brand Yugo bluntnose softpoint.
Shot placement is all important, of course. And nothing typed above should be read as an endorsement for inhumane hunting by anyone.
The deer of my experience were tough hombres. Only, I do imagine the M-74 cartridge, within 100-yards, is most likely tougher. Therefore, I say: Give it a shot, only be prepared to act decisively if things don't go well.
Where I'm from is literally overrun to the point deer are positively a hazard to Sunday drivers even.
If you hunt deer with a .223, use Nosler partitions.
If you do hunt with the .223 the Nosler is a good choice....and possibly the Speer 70 gr. semi spitzer.....
Both are better fired from bolt guns/longer barrels however they are probably two of the better choices.
Both bullets are designed with hunting in mind.
All reports I have seen on the 7.62x39 factory 122 gr. wt. class Com Bloc hunting bullet either soft point or hollow point indicate less than consistant performance i.e. bullets coming apart and or inconsistant penetration and or fragmentation. The 154 gr. Com Bloc factory load seems to do a better job and is more consistant. U.S. commercial bullets of 150gr. and up do well.
01-23-2004, 08:56 PM
I've heard of the Russian HP bullets breaking up, but never seen it. They have only a little less penetration in a steel plate than the FMJ. I hadn't heard that the SP bullets had a problem; all I've used them on were water-filled 2 liter bottles or milk jugs. I may have tried a few on sandbags, but I don't think so; I was looking for penetration there.
Gun Wielding Maniac
04-13-2004, 08:25 PM
I've taken a 140 lb Mulie buck with a 5.45. RWS 59 grain hollowpoint. When in the top of his back and came out nowhere. Destroyed heart and lungs. It works.
04-15-2004, 10:52 AM
Bump fire on a groundhog ought to be fun....but here in PA it's no semi rifles for hunting. Guess I'll just have to keep chuck hunting with my 50 BMG bolt gun :)
The 5.45x39mm bullets are .221" in diameter so they are indeed 22 caliber.
The 7.62x39mm is a fine deer cartridge for woods hunting where shots are limited to 100 yards or under. The 7 deer I have or have helped field dress had massive internal organ damage from chest shots using soft point ammo.
The hollow point ammo doesn't expand and acts like a fmj unless bone is hit. Several co-workers tried the hp in the 97-98 deer seasons and got very poor results. Several follow up shots and lots of tracking were the norm. Only one had good results and that was with a neck shot that distroyed a couple of vertibrae.
04-15-2004, 06:20 PM
I was in the process of attempting to compare the damage caused by FMJ, Russian HP, and Russian SP bullets on a standard target--namely, 2 litre soft drink bottles filled with water. The distance was 50 yds and the rifle was an AK with 16" barrel. While I hadn't made enough tests for statistical significance, the shots I had made compared this way: the second bottle (the one with most damage) looked like an elephant stepped on it with FMJ or HP, SP looked more like someone had attempted to turn the bottle inside-out. I attribute this to the disruption of the bullet, which caused a tremendous hydrostatic shock to the bottle. This same shock would occur in an animal. Based on the limited testing I did, I kept my "rapid response" rifle filled with SP, and the other rifles filled with FMJ. (I'm not sure what the stopping power of a protective vest would be against the SP bullet, so went with the known effective FMJ on later arrivals who would be more likely to have vests.)
03-26-2006, 05:52 AM
show me a 22lr that does the same damage as a 5.45x39,and ill buy one.i dont think the 5.45 or 5.56 were really considered when they said no hunting with a 22 caliber or smaller.i woudnt want to try to take a elk with one,but you get my point.
03-26-2006, 12:21 PM
ive had limited experience with the 7.62x39 round having taken 4 deer with it in sks rifles.my findings echo ja's in that the cartridge using soft point bullets at under 100 yds does a fine job,giving me one shot kills on three deer. the 4th one i shot using a russian sks was shot with a russian hollow point and was a frontal shot at about 60 yards with the doe facing me.the bullet entered just slightly off center of chest and angled into the shoulder bone and fragmented throughout leaving the shoulder and most of the chest cavity a mass of jelly.she dropped instantly.ive seen other deer shot with the hollow point though with no expansion at all through soft tissue.im tempted to try my ak74 this fall on deer and ill let you know how it pans out.
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