Is Even our Gold FAKE ?

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/kirby/2009/1112.html

I’ve already reported on irregular physical gold settlements which occurred in London, England back in the first week of October, 2009. Specifically, these settlements involved the intermediation of at least one Central Bank [The Bank of England] to resolve allocated settlements on behalf of J.P. Morgan and Deutsche Bank – who DID NOT have the gold bullion that they had sold short and were contracted to deliver. At the same time I reported on two other unusual occurrences:

1] - irregularities in the publication of the gold ETF - GLD’s bar list from Sept. 25 – Oct.14 where the length of the bar list went from 1,381 pages to under 200 pages and then back up to 800 or so pages.

2] - reports of 400 oz. “good delivery” bricks of gold found gutted and filled with tungsten within the confines of LBMA approved vaults in Hong Kong.

Why Tungsten?

If anyone were contemplating creating “fake” gold bars, tungsten [at roughly $10 per pound] would be the metal of choice since it has the exact same density as gold making a fake bar salted with tungsten indistinguishable from a solid gold bar by simply weighing it.....................................................

I wonder who the gold biters were...

All that glitters is not gold.
This must be the fools gold.
Pyrites.

Buy Gold....thats what the television commercial said.

LMAO

Anything is possible when there is big money to be made. Who knows.

They'll cheat the others and pass the savings on to YOU!!!

So.....if there's at least 60 tons of fake gold out there, and 'possibly' thousand of tons of fake gold........

Then the price of REAL gold will go through the roof.

This is gonna be good, watching the markets on this. I'm sellin at $1,200!

BFC

So.....if there's at least 60 tons of fake gold out there, and 'possibly' thousand of tons of fake gold........And the ETFs, some of which are nothing but paper based on the supposed price of gold.
Then the price of REAL gold will go through the roof.Yes it will.

This is gonna be good, watching the markets on this. I'm sellin at $1,200!

BFCIF correct that price is going soar well beyond 1200.

Wow. There is so much fraud going on right now it is unbelievable and just when you think things can hardly get worse...there it is.

FWIW, this will drive other commodity prices up in all likelihood, even equities and bonds. I think.

Hey smart guys! announcement here!

The price is going up ONLY becouse the value of the dollar is dropping. YOU who invest in gold are among the most stupid people on earth. Most of them are buying paper that is worthless. Further some speculate that gold may rise to $4K in 3 years, NO ONE WILL HAVE the cash to buy you out at $4k. What will you do? eat it? no I mean physically eat it?

Dumb fuckers born every day.

Scott

Hey smart guys! announcement here!
Yes, O'wisened one, we're listening.....

The price is going up ONLY becouse the value of the dollar is dropping.
No, it's not. You are mistaken. There is an index on Kitco at the top of the page:
Price Change due to Weakening of US Dollar +6.95
Gold Price Change due to Predominant Buying +7.45
Gold Price: Total Change+14.40

YOU who invest in gold are among the most stupid people on earth.

And this is pobably coming from a man that DIDN'T buy it at $250 an ounce? Right? Right?

Most of them are buying paper that is worthless. Further some speculate that gold may rise to $4K in 3 years, NO ONE WILL HAVE the cash to buy you out at $4k.
So, didn't some of us indicate 'selling' at a more modest profit level? Yes, I believe that we did.

What will you do? eat it? no I mean physically eat it?

Yes, we will EAT. See, because we can trade (barter) off small bits-n-pieces of it like men have done for centuries when there wasn't a small enough common denominator to use as 'change'.....like as in Silver.

Dumb fuckers born every day.
Yes sir, it goes without saying......

Scott

Not much else to say.......

BFC

Best investments are bullets, booze and bread. Fuel, seeds and medicine would be secondary wise places for extra bucks.

Best investments are bullets, booze and bread. Fuel, seeds and medicine would be secondary wise places for extra bucks.
The places to start, for certain.

Layered survival strategy, like layered defenses.

I understand p.m.`s as a long term investment, but in very bad times I just don`t see people trading in a non-usable good. People will need necessities- food, ammo, gasoline, seeds, etc., not something of no immediate value. To those who are not as well prepared w/ usable goods, I can see THEM having some silver to trade w/ those who have an abundance of what they need.

I understand p.m.`s as a long term investment, but in very bad times I just don`t see people trading in a non-usable good. People will need necessities- food, ammo, gasoline, seeds, etc., not something of no immediate value. To those who are not as well prepared w/ usable goods, I can see THEM having some silver to trade w/ those who have an abundance of what they need.
Which under their inflated value a merchant, or seller, could make a nice profit on the PMs when things return to normal.

Of course that requires that the seller have an excess supply.

We are all expecting SHTF.
At the least a disintegrating dollar and a collapsed economy.
That doesn't mean it will occur.
Nor does it mean that if it does, that it will last forever. Food and ammo will be inflated intially, later PMs can be cashed in for large profit--in the scenario we speak of.

Best investments are bullets, booze and bread.

I thought that was bullets, booze and broads

Gold is needed and its not dumb to invest in it. Bullets can buy you something, so can food, fuel, booze and many other things. Gold is another insulated layer. Gold can also buy you what those other items cannot. Gold can buy you things from those who already have what you have in other items.

Would I invest every penny I have in gold, no. But I wouldnt call those who buy it stupid at all. Right now gold is funding a lot for me as I trade it physically. Hey I buy it at 50 percent value and sell it at 90 percent value. I keep some for myself in the process and it not only pays for itself but also other things I need/want.

So how is that stupid? It always comes back to HOW you do something.You and bigfoot turn your brains on.

Gold is at $1K for two reasons-
Demand.
The value of the dollar, it take more dollars today than it did 10 years ago to buy the same oz.

The ONLY reason gold maintains it's value is because buyers are currently buying. If you have one oz and you wish to sell at $1K you currently can ONLY because there is someone else willing and able to buy.

If you buy paper at 1K per oz you are buying an interest in gold you never see or hold. You are relying on that paper to be good at anytime you wish to cash out, what if during a catistophic financial failure the paper is worthless? A failure take place and you and everyone else decides to cash out tomorrow will the value maintain? will the holders of the gold have the cash? If you buy today at $1K per and two years from now the going value/rate is $2K and everyone cashes how will the note seller/gold holder come up with twice the cash taken in?

For those who hold gold physically-
How will you negotiate the price of a bag of flour? 6 potatos, 2 gallons of gas? How will you protect it after you have made it known you poses gold? You have 6 ozs of gold, how long will that last in negotiating the purchase of basic needs? It's gonna be a little difficult to use your 6 pieces as currency. Again how do you value the item purchased and the amount of gold exchacnged???????????

The money in todays world is better spent buying hard goods that will allow you to exchange labor for goods, like the purchase of tools and materials. For example if Doc invested is a Doc office in his home or a mobile Doc office to serve the folks in barter trade, that would be a worthwhile investment.

Again remember, if gold rises to $4K per oz and no one has $4K to purchase your oz it isn't worth $4K per oz now is it?

Scott

scott, why do you mock people for even trying to invest money..?? if you have half a brain you can search to see that gold has risen a lot faster than inflation in the past 20 years. but obviously, you just want to make yourself feel better. go somewhere like stormfront if you want to dump on other people for no reason.

scott, why do you mock people for even trying to invest money..?? if you have half a brain you can search to see that gold has risen a lot faster than inflation in the past 20 years. but obviously, you just want to make yourself feel better. go somewhere like stormfront if you want to dump on other people for no reason.
Hey dipshit! All you have to do is listen to radio or watch 1hour of FOX and I PROMISE you you will hear or watch 6 commercials for the purchase of gold. That might tell you something. They, the sellers, are pushing gold REAL hard right now. Why might that be smartass????????????? Give me some real logic or shut the fuck up.

Scott

If I moch people as you say-

People always think the can get something for nothing, they are ALWAYS looking for some way to make money without working for it. Some do and many don't.

Remember a light bulb always burns brightest just before it burns out. Gold is burning bright tonight.

Scott

Make money while you can, Scott.

You can't go through life expecting the world to end tomorrow, you have to live your life as if it both can end, and will go on forever, at the same time.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I think it even says something along those lines in the Bible, Scott.


Besides, if we are going to put up any serious fight, it is going to take some wealth to pull it off.

Of course, I would submit that if it comes to that, a declaration that those paying taxes into the Fasco-socialist illegal govt are fair game, if you get my drift. Maybe we would need to collect our own taxes! :small_gri

:evil:

Make money while you can, Scott.

You can't go through life expecting the world to end tomorrow, you have to live your life as if it both can end, and will go on forever, at the same time.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

I think it even says something along those lines in the Bible, Scott.


Besides, if we are going to put up any serious fight, it is going to take some wealth to pull it off.

Of course, I would submit that if it comes to that, a declaration that those paying taxes into the Fasco-socialist illegal govt are fair game, if you get my drift. Maybe we would need to collect our own taxes! :small_gri

:evil:
Yes the Bible does and it was the servant that invested WISELY that was rewarded by his master.

Scott

Doc there is NO safe investment today. I won't go through life thinking the sky is falling however anyone who has faith in this market is a nut.

We are all pretending right now that the dollar has a value at all, it's coming sooner than you think Doc.

Scott

Someone please name for me ONE product that they'd invest in today and be rest assured that it will be a solid investment for three years. Name one.

Doc you even stated you have some reservation/regret that you paid off your house. What's really safe?


Scott

Doc there is NO safe investment today. I won't go through life thinking the sky is falling however anyone who has faith in this market is a nut.
I can't disagree with that but that doesn't mean money can't still be made.

Volatility is a good opportunity for those who know what they are doing.
Not claiming to be an expert by any means, and for your average guy, probably not the time to get into investing unless starting out with small amounts, or waiting for the right opportunities.

We are all pretending right now that the dollar has a value at all, it's coming sooner than you think Doc.

Scott
Well Scott, the dollar still has value, however tenuous that is.
There are other things to invest in besides the dollar, hence the precious metal discussion we are having.

Sooner than I think?
Maybe. Maybe not.
They sure are screwing things up bad so you may be right.

We look back on the Great Depression as if one day everything dropped off a cliff. It didn't. It took time and it wasn't recognized immediately how bad it was, how bad it was going to be.

I have to keep reminding myself of that.

All I can say is everything I own is paid off. And I am ready for the fight of my life. Even a fight for my life.

Oh and I didn't mention the 30% loss of your capital gain due to taxes.

Scott

Doc you even stated you have some reservation/regret that you paid off your house. What's really safe?


Scott
Only because of the recognition that the govt can take it anyhow.

I could have other investments that could not be found or touched. Not easily anyhow. And if they then took my home, mortgaged to the hilt, I could just give 'em the fickle finger of fate award.

:the_finge

As it stands, if they decide to take my home, I figure I might as well take as many of the bastards down as I can.

I can't disagree with that but that doesn't mean money can't still be made.

Volatility is a good opportunity for those who know what they are doing.
Not claiming to be an expert by any means, and for your average guy, probably not the time to get into investing unless starting out with small amounts, or waiting for the right opportunities.


Well Scott, the dollar still has value, however tenuous that is.
There are other things to invest in besides the dollar, hence the precious metal discussion we are having.

Sooner than I think?
Maybe. Maybe not.
They sure are screwing things up bad so you may be right.

We look back on the Great Depression as if one day everything dropped off a cliff. It didn't. It took time and it wasn't recognized immediately how bad it was, how bad it was going to be.

I have to keep reminding myself of that.

All I can say is everything I own is paid off. And I am ready for the fight of my life. Even a fight for my life.Precisely.

Mark Levine a couple of weeks ago compared what today's market is doing to what the market was doing the year before the great crash. He refered to news paper articals and other bits of history. He stated that if you put the two market on a graph the two would look almost identical. Today's market is doing exactly what the market did in 1929. One reason it was such a shock to everyone is that the market was rallying and they thought that market had returned, it crashed.

What's that about history repeating.....?


Scott

Actually, I think it is more like 1920.

They are screwing this royal though, that's for sure.

If it goes down I'll be more ready than most by far.

Three things to look to-

CCs default in Feb.

Commercial realestate.

More jobs loss by March. The employers in this county have nothing to encourage them right now. They know more than anyone what's coming down on them. Increased regs and taxes are by design killing our job market.

One other-

Wait till Cali or NY or some other state really does go bankrupt, that is gonna happen, I promise you and event he feds will be lost on that one.


Scott

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_Street_Crash_of_1929


Scott

Ya know what it is for me? We are all neck deep in shit and most of us have not bothered to take a whif.

Scott

Three things to look to-

CCs default in Feb.
Why Feb?

Commercial realestate.
The 800lb gorilla in the room

More jobs loss by March. The employers in this county have nothing to encourage them right now. They know more than anyone what's coming down on them. Increased regs and taxes are by design killing our job market.
Going to be a steady loss, I agree, though at some point it may pick up. Not betting on it.
They handed trillions to a bunch of crooks.

Poof!

They could have done something to actually helped most people keep their homes and stimulate the economy, encourage small business start ups rather than crushing them and aiding criminal large corporations.
They chould have done some things to encourage business in the US.

One other-

Wait till Cali or NY or some other state really does go bankrupt, that is gonna happen, I promise you and event he feds will be lost on that one.


Scott
So it appears.
But they won't be lost. They will bail them out and heap it on the Fed Debt. That will only forestall the inevitable for Kali while bringing the large scale collapse of the US and World econony sooner.

The only question is how long they can prop up this house of cards.

Ya know what it is for me? We are all neck deep in shit and most of us have not bothered to take a whif.

Scott
That's true. So fuck 'em.
It's too late.

Though I expect one part of their doing all of this is to bring on full scale socialism--ie the govt takes over everything including private property.

I think the sheeple will actually bleat for this with all their might if it comes to that.

And that is exactly what they are counting on.

Why Feb?


The 800lb gorilla in the room


Going to be a steady loss, I agree, though at some point it may pick up. Not betting on it.
They handed trillions to a bunch of crooks.

Poof!

They could have done something to actually helped most people keep their homes and stimulate the economy, encourage small business start ups rather than crushing them and aiding criminal large corporations.
They chould have done some things to encourage business in the US.


So it appears.
But they won't be lost. They will bail them out and heap it on the Fed Debt. That will only forestall the inevitable for Kali while bringing the large scale collapse of the US and World econony sooner.

The only question is how long they can prop up this house of cards.It was several years ago now but at one time if Cali were it's own country it would have had the world's 3rd largest economy. I have no idea what it would take to bail them out and that's why I say I think the fed would be lost on that.

Why Feb? Most of us are not spending this Christmas but many are and they are all charging it. I'll bet that most who have spent already have and they know that they won't have the money to pay these bills. Many may know they won't have a job after Christmas and they spend anyway. Defaults are gonna come hard, and don't forget all the new % hikes imposed.

Scott

Good nite Doc.

Scott

Good nite Doc.

Scott
Same here, I'm signing off too.

Good night, Scott.

That's true. So fuck 'em.
It's too late.

Though I expect one part of their doing all of this is to bring on full scale socialism--ie the govt takes over everything including private property.
.

THIS IS THE REAL MAIN PLAN!!!! THEY WILL MAKE IT SO BAD THAT THE SHEEPLE WILL **** BEG **** FOR "SOMETHING" NEW, WHICH IS HOW WE GOT O'BONGO.

THIS IS ALL PART OF THE MASTER PLAN

Someone please name for me ONE product that they'd invest in today and be rest assured that it will be a solid investment for three years. Name one.

Doc you even stated you have some reservation/regret that you paid off your house. What's really safe?


Scott

I buy all kinds of stuff as an "investment". Not everything will give a monetary return,but nonetheless,its an investment. My 14foot flatbed trailer. Paid $600 for it about 10 years ago,never regretted it.I've hauled more stuff,moved more peoples possessions,vehicles,scrap iron,firewood,and all sorts of other things than I can count.The trailer is still worth $600 and probably even more.I wouldn't sell it for that.
My Stihl chainsaws.Never regretted buying them.They cut firewood,which gives me heat.
I buy boots,leather gloves,clothes,etc. because I know I WILL use them,eventually,and wear them out.So I "invest" when they are at a good deal.
Anything,ANYTHING,you use on a daily basis,and is used up,or worn out,or burned up is wise to invest in.

Gold always has had value. That is why we went off the gold standard backing our currency. Paper profits are just numbers.
Land is not owned, just merely rented from the government as taxes are due.

I buy all kinds of stuff as an "investment". Not everything will give a monetary return,but nonetheless,its an investment. My 14foot flatbed trailer. Paid $600 for it about 10 years ago,never regretted it.I've hauled more stuff,moved more peoples possessions,vehicles,scrap iron,firewood,and all sorts of other things than I can count.The trailer is still worth $600 and probably even more.I wouldn't sell it for that.
My Stihl chainsaws.Never regretted buying them.They cut firewood,which gives me heat.
I buy boots,leather gloves,clothes,etc. because I know I WILL use them,eventually,and wear them out.So I "invest" when they are at a good deal.
Anything,ANYTHING,you use on a daily basis,and is used up,or worn out,or burned up is wise to invest in.Exactly.

When the paper fails I will have tools and abilities others won't. I will eat and others will have paper.

Scott

To take it further-

I have always had my hands and brain into something, that's what attracted me to AK building. The more I do the more I learn the more capable I am at survival, the best investment of all.

Further- take an assesment of all the men you know, how many are really capable and how many,(family included) will you have to take care of or do take care of because they are useless to build, repair, hunt, gather, think, etc......?



Scott

Saw this on Rense:
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1258049769.php


Down the article:
Roughly 15 years ago – during the Clinton Administration [think Robert Rubin, Sir Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers] – between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten blanks were allegedly manufactured by a very high-end, sophisticated refiner in the USA [more than 16 Thousand metric tonnes]. Subsequently, 640,000 of these tungsten blanks received their gold plating and WERE shipped to Ft. Knox and remain there to this day. I know folks who have copies of the original shipping docs with dates and exact weights of “tungsten” bars shipped to Ft. Knox


So besides selling out national secrets to the communist chinese,he also adulterated the nations gold reserve? Wonderful.

The locomotive has derailed and plummeted into the ravine. We,back in the last cars haven't fully felt it yet,but nonetheless,the path will be the same.

Saw this on Rense:
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1258049769.php


Down the article:
Roughly 15 years ago – during the Clinton Administration [think Robert Rubin, Sir Alan Greenspan and Lawrence Summers] – between 1.3 and 1.5 million 400 oz tungsten blanks were allegedly manufactured by a very high-end, sophisticated refiner in the USA [more than 16 Thousand metric tonnes]. Subsequently, 640,000 of these tungsten blanks received their gold plating and WERE shipped to Ft. Knox and remain there to this day. I know folks who have copies of the original shipping docs with dates and exact weights of “tungsten” bars shipped to Ft. Knox


So besides selling out national secrets to the communist chinese,he also adulterated the nations gold reserve? Wonderful.

The locomotive has derailed and plummeted into the ravine. We,back in the last cars haven't fully felt it yet,but nonetheless,the path will be the same.I took this story with a grain of salt, we have no idea how valid these claims are.

HOWEVER something is coming down REAL soon, I feel it. There will be some revelation forthcoming that will shock our market, our financial position in the world, our gov, our currency, our lives.

7 years ago I was told by anyone that would listen (that we have real bad times ahead) I was called a freak. I saying the same thing now, Rome will crumble, I'm still the same freak. This time it will be no fun to say I told you so.

Mark my words.

Ya know the funny thing is I may not be around much longer, Our satilite is $100 a month and I my not afford it through Christmas. So I may not get the chance to say so here.

Scott

7 years ago I was told by anyone that would listen (that we have real bad times ahead) I was called a freak. I saying the same thing now, Rome will crumble, I'm still the same freak. This time it will be no fun to say I told you so.


Scott
Scott, I think a lot of it is just that people don't want to hear it. Deep down they know it's bad and could get a lot worse but they are in to denial mode.

Ignore it and it will go away...

And you're just the bearer of bad news.

You're trying to get them to prepare and they are just blaming you for what's coming.

I'm not sure when it is coming, I still think we have some time, but they have screwed this up so badly, so many ways, that we could crash tomorrow.

Bridge is out, cliff around the next curve and everyone is partying.

______________________________________________________________

This may come as a surprise to you and others but as I've said before, it is better to get it over with sooner rather than later.
Biggest problem with that is they have made the problem much worse than it had to be.

$2,000,000,000,000.00 worth more--just in the US.

We are so screwed.

We caused the last Great Depression and we have caused this one.

The price this time will be far more than money.

I would also make note of the fact that they know (well, I think those mental midgets do...) it took a World War and the death of millions to end it.

Add to that the fact that the Chicoms are the best positioned for such a war right now.

-manpower
-industrial base
-relatively stable economy compared to the rest of us
-raw material stockpiles (shrewd move on their part yet none of the world's leaders seem to be anything but oblivious to it)
-proximity to energy sources
-isolated from their only two potential enemies--the US and Russia


China's neighbors, hell the rest of Asia, is screwed.

Add to that the fact that the Chicoms are the best positioned for such a war right now.

-manpower
-industrial base
-relatively stable economy compared to the rest of us
-raw material stockpiles (shrewd move on their part yet none of the world's leaders seem to be anything but oblivious to it)
-proximity to energy sources
-isolated from their only two potential enemies--the US and Russia


China's neighbors, hell the rest of Asia, is screwed.
YES! China is US in 1945. Blind denial.

Scott

Scott, I hear what your saying but you are only seeing the half of the story you want to see.

First of all I would never negotiate gold and potatoes. I would negotiate gold for weapons, or even an army if I had enough of it. Gold buys things that other items cannot. Savy?

Also if I were to decide to live my life as if tomorrow it will end, I might as well joint a cult like Jim Jones and drink to my death. A man must live for tomorrow even if tomorrow is his end.

I have seen several of your posts and it seems you are very much against investing. Yet it is through investing that I have what I have. I have homes in the Philippines, own my land and home in the USA, I have enough weapons to fully arm a miliita and enough ammo to start a war. I have six months of food sitting around and wondering where I can store more. I have my men around me within 2 to 3 miles of where I live that I can operate with. I have prepared unlike many who run their mouths from the armchair and only talk about tomorrow.

And yes, I have my gold as well. Until an individual can learn layered diversification, not just with investing, but also in preparation, the ignorance will kill that individual. For what you think you may need tomorrow, may indeed not even be what you need. If you focus so heavily on one area and you ignore the other, it very well may be the other that you need the most.

There is no way to see the future needs we will have. So in turn, I challenge your thinking in multiple ways. You may want to consider what I say.Proper investment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Today-

Gold = $1k oz

$1K = 1 AK rifle + 500 rnds.

Tomorrow (future)-

$1k = 0

1oz gold = 1/2 of an AK rifle = 250 rnds.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The dollar has more power today for the wise investor than gold will have tomorrow for the not so wise investor.

You still hold on to the idea that the gold/paper will have any value when folks are in need of basic supplies.

Scott

One last thought on gold-

For those of you buying crertificates, if we have a failure you will NOT be able to cash out, you will get in line only to be turned away. Your paper is worthless on that day and that day may come tomorrow. You choose, not me.

For those holding gold-

I'll trade my 2 gallons of gas for a bag of flour but not for your micro gram of gold.

Scott

The most prolific fallout the world has ever seen up until this time has been the fall of Rome. Even after the Roman empire fell, gold still held value. You keep thinking of gold from the modern investment terms of gold to paper and paper to gold. This is a modern development. Gold is gold without the paper needed. Gold has always retained some value. Yet I do understand what you say.

Even last year when the market was tanking to its low, gold fell from the 900 mark to the high 600's and the low 700's. Yet even inside of a complete collapse, gold will hold some value.

Simply because we, the USA, collapses there are a million other variables that you cannot calculate. There are other issues that cannot be measured. Many of those other variables would be easier to weather with a physical asset such as gold.

While I do understand what your saying, I also must look to historical examples. To ignore these is to invite unwanted hardships and to rely upon ignorance. Just because we speak of the end of the world does not mean that we will be within a Mad Max environment where fuel, food and weapons are the only currency. There is absolutely no way to prove that and it is impossible to prove with history.I'm not talking about the end of the world. I am talking about the end of our economy as you know it. If you have two onces of common sence you will see that there is an effort by this adminstration (and others) to destroy our economy. You will wake one morning thirsty and hungry and that will be all that matters.

Scott

Question. Let's say I wanted to buy gold. Who, how, where would I buy it so I could physically have it in my safe and and know it was "good as gold"? Is it available in coins less than an ounce? I question the credability of the some of the people on T.V.

So here is my take.

If you bought gold way back when it was low and are selling it now at a high - thats fine.

If your buying it high now to sit on...then like anything else your taking a huge risk. Gold will always have value they say - I say it will dependent upon outcomes. A real shtf and it is worthless. You cannot eat it or live on it - you cannot grow food on it and your cannot drink it. Sure you may trade it, but to whom...

In a regular mild shtf prices may will drop - no one here knows. I have watched many things worth money drop - markets change, and so forth.

I would submit those investing in, or selling investments, in gold need it to remain high and need it remain valubale.

That said I bought land, materials, expanded my home - put in new wells - got cattle - got wind generators...am exploring bio diesel production and so forth.

In a real shtf or carbon taxed society I have it made. Period.

Oh sure there may be land taxes - but where I live they are low as hell as my land is zoned pasture agriculture. Big difference from other places, other states, and even from my zoned farming nieghbors.

So who is right and who is wrong in this - perhaps no one.

If your happy with your investments and happy with what you see as being set for the future then good for you.

But realize one thing - no one knows the future or what may come - there is not such thing as a sure thing.

Thats my two.

Murph,
I look at gold this way: It is an inheirant storage of wealth,regardless of the value of the dollar,because it takes so much manpower and effort to produce an ounce of it. Its like a full cord of forewood.It takes 1 man X amount of hours,Y amount of fuel,Z amount of machinery to produce it. It can't be cheated or be counterfeited.If you want a log in the stove,that is its price.Obviously,a full cord of firewood isn't terribly portable,so its not a good basis for a currency.Hence,gold and silver.Now,if somebody has attempted to "cheat" the gold reserve by replacing it with a lesser value metal,and it is revealed openly,all hell breaks loose.

Murph,
I look at gold this way: It is an inheirant storage of wealth,regardless of the value of the dollar,because it takes so much manpower and effort to produce an ounce of it. Its like a full cord of forewood.It takes 1 man X amount of hours,Y amount of fuel,Z amount of machinery to produce it. It can't be cheated or be counterfeited.If you want a log in the stove,that is its price.Obviously,a full cord of firewood isn't terribly portable,so its not a good basis for a currency.Hence,gold and silver.Now,if somebody has attempted to "cheat" the gold reserve by replacing it with a lesser value metal,and it is revealed openly,all hell breaks loose.

It may not be this but the lug nuts are lose and the wheels are coming off.

Scott

Hey for those that argue their points, I say good, good arguement and as Mandy says to each his own.

I'm not convincing anyone of anything, do as you will.

Scott

If your buying(gold) it high now to sit on...then like anything else your taking a huge risk.
Can't disagree with that.
Of course most profitable investments require risk.

That said I bought land, materials, expanded my home - put in new wells - got cattle - got wind generators...am exploring bio diesel production and so forth.
I'd say you've made the wisest of choices.


So who is right and who is wrong in this - perhaps no one.
I'd say it simply remains to be seen, as always.


But realize one thing - no one knows the future or what may come - there is not such thing as a sure thing.


No, there surely is not.
I have paid off my home and am pretty well set where I am at.

However, there is this gut feeling I have based on current events, the economy, and what the govt is composed of, that private ownership of land is coming to an end.

There is NOTHING they cannot take from you.

This will be done through one for more of the following:
--taxation
--complete socialization of our nation after economic collapse
--UN/NWO Treaty

How can one plan for all of the possibilities?
One cannot, of course.

If it gets to that the only things of real value may be:
1]guns and ammo---and that is ONLY if we are going to put up a fight
2]passport/way out of this country--where to? Now that is one helluva question. There isn't anywhere looking good these days. The US is the last chance for freedom on this planet and that is going fast.


I'd like to say I have a rosier outlook.

I don't.

But I'm not living my life in fear and I am seriously enjoying each and everyday while I prepare as best I can.

Hey for those that argue their points, I say good, good arguement and as Mandy says to each his own.

I'm not convincing anyone of anything, do as you will.

Scott
As we must all do, each and every day.

Live your life and enjoy the time you have on this planet as best you can. At some point we may have nothing left but to fight and that is going to be bad for each and every one of us. Worse still with each passing day but most of us already know that, at least deep down.

I have to agree Doc - in these times anything is possible and there is nothing they wont do for the so-called greater good.

Ending land ownership, weapons confiscation - not at all out of bound.

Especially given the systematic march they are now on...

Stimulus to fund pet projects, and take over segments of industry...hell industry.

Healthcare takeover

Now flat out declaring that Illegals need to be made citizens and lying about the current state of inlfux.

Next up...pushing threw cap and trade

Then weapons...

God knows what else.

Having said that - I would wager they come after peoples private holdings - especially the gold in question. Makes sense and I could see it coming before a land grab. I recall in our past history the United States demanding things back - gold coins, notes.

Very troubling times indeed.

http://www.zealllc.com/2004/hydra11.htm

Read, get to the meat, interesting. 2004

Scott

http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=1946


Scott

http://www.zealllc.com/2004/hydra11.htm

Read, get to the meat, interesting. 2004

Scott
Skimmed over it.

So What?

He bases his conclusions on current rule of constitutional law and states that the govt wouldn't do this because they want to remain in power.

BFD
The rules have changed and are continuing to do so rapidly.

This guy wrote this in 2004 so we have to take that in consideration but it seems he has an axe to grind.

The behemoth that is now the Fed Govt will do whatever it wants at the time with the thrist for absolute power and no consideration for how it affects any of us, investors, or the nation. All they want is more power.

As I have repeatedly stated, those who thirst for power are the very last ones who should have it. Unfortunately, that is exactly where we are at, which is precisely what the Founding Fathers feared in a large Fed Govt.

If some future American tyrant even wanted to try and outdo Franklin Roosevelt to become America’s worst president in history by stealing gold from the American people again,



We are here.

Scott

[QUOTE]A fiat currency like the US dollar is ultimately nothing more than a confidence game. If you compare a $1 bill to a $100 bill, what makes the $100 bill worth more? They weigh the same, are both printed on a few cents worth of the same special paper, they look similar, they feel the same, they take up the same space in your wallet, etc. A $100 bill is only worth more than a $1 bill because you have faith! You have confidence that it is so as do other people all over the world. Intrinsically, there is no reason why a piece of paper with $100 printed on it should be worth any more than an almost identical piece of paper with $1 printed on it.


What is VALUE?


The dollar only has a dollar value because you and I agree on it's value.



Scott

We are here.

Scott
It's worse than that.
property
weapons
--all at risk.

Yet, if it comes to that, none of it matters as there are no investments you have that are worth a damn.

You cannot go through life like that. You have to move forward and hope for the best or you will die an embittered pauper.

Could happen anyhow but you have to live your life and plan for your future.

The sky isn't falling, just compressing a little. ;)

For now.

"Full Faith and Credit of the US Federal Government"

The feds have no credit and I have no faith.



Scott

[QUOTE]

The dollar only has a dollar value because you and I agree on it's value.


Scott


You can say the same about anything and everything.

BTW eash US tax filer in America owns one share of GM, you have bought $340 worth.

Did you receive your share holders letter yet? Would you like to sell your share? What is your rate of return on investment? May I see your share certificate?


Hummm...

Scott

You can say the same about anything and everything.
That's fine but what will happen when you and I nolonger agree?

What standard shall determine the value of your dollar?


Scott

What standard shall determine the value of your dollar?


Scott
The Market.

As always.

Yes, I agree, there is no inherent value to our paper money and not much to our coinage.

McDs sells a cheese burger for $1. I walk in and agree to pay $1 for a cheese burger. McDs and I have reached an agreement therefore the cheese burger has a value of $1 and $1 has of value of a cheese burger.

Now what happens when McDs now demands $6 per cheese burger? I don't agree to pay $6 each, therefore we have no agreement and the value of a dollar has changed as has the value of the burger. What now?

Scott

McDs sells a cheese burger for $1. I walk in and agree to pay $1 for a cheese burger. McDs and I have reached an agreement therefore the cheese burger has a value of $1 and $1 has of value of a cheese burger.

Now what happens when McDs now demands $6 per cheese burger? I don't agree to pay $6 each, therefore we have no agreement and the value of a dollar have changed as have the value of the burger. What now?

Scott
The Market = supply and demand

They would be forced to drop their price or sell less burgers. They might opt for somewhere in the middle.

If the dollar drops to 16$ value overnight, I don't think many people will be going to McDs or much of anywhere else. The ramifications of that are another story.

Skimmed over it.

So What?

He bases his conclusions on current rule of constitutional law and states that the govt wouldn't do this because they want to remain in power.

BFD
The rules have changed and are continuing to do so rapidly.

This guy wrote this in 2004 so we have to take that in consideration but it seems he has an axe to grind.

The behemoth that is now the Fed Govt will do whatever it wants at the time with the thrist for absolute power and no consideration for how it affects any of us, investors, or the nation. All they want is more power.

As I have repeatedly stated, those who thirst for power are the very last ones who should have it. Unfortunately, that is exactly where we are at, which is precisely what the Founding Fathers feared in a large Fed Govt.

Apparently he is a constitutionalist.

Scott

Exactly. In fact that is what determines the value of all things, with the addition of the competition of the item.

In the real terms of all things used at currency, whether a dollar or the pet pig in the back yard, its a matter of what people agree to.

People will agree to the "value" based upon the necessity of the item, quantity of the item and the ease of access to the item.

People say that the dollar is faith based, and it is, but all things are. Its a matter of what a market wants. We might can trade a pig for corn, beans, potatoes and so forth. Yet if you take the pig up to wall street in New York, might have some trouble there. Its all relative.

This is why I believe Murph may be a bit closed minded on some things in terms of investments but hey there is NOTHING wrong with that. Gold is not the be all end all, nor is land or anything else we "invest" in. Its only as useful as the market you are in or can have access to will allow.

Pay your mortgage with 2 pigs and a hen next month.

Scott

Infact send your mortgage co that gold coin as payment and see what happens.

Scott

Pay your mortgage with 2 pigs and a hen next month.

Scott
If the dollar were to collapse that might be a viable alternative.

As javelin said though, there may be times and places that is a good trade but a banker has not much use for pigs. ;)

Not currently anyhow.


One thing to consider here, and I sure plenty have, if we experience hyperinflation your house payment will seem mighty cheap. At least for those who currently have a home.

javlin, you're a smart guy so answer me this-

You own a home, you have a mortgage, you have agreed to pay 500 US dollars each month payment. The US currency fails, how will you now determine the value of your home, the value of your mortgage, and what the value of a new currency as it relates to your payment?

Please explain the standard of all these values.

Scott

If the dollar were to collapse that might be a viable alternative.

As javelin said though, there may be times and places that is a good trade but a banker has not much use for pigs. ;)

Not currently anyhow.


One thing to consider here, and I sure plenty have, if we experience hyperinflation your house payment will seem mighty cheap. At least for those who currently have a home.

Let me tell ya, I ain't movin, I ain't sellin, I ain't buyin, and I ain't fuckin with my mortgage.

Scott

Infact send your mortgage co that gold coin as payment and see what happens.

Scott
You could probably make that payment but I'd bet you'd have to bring it in unless you wanted it stolen. ;)

Damn Scott, we going to keep going around in circles or what?

Ok...... so whats your point?

Your comparing apples to oranges. My point is directly relative to a market and the need/demands of that market. Hence the purpose of DIVERSIFICATION. With diversification you have the ability to provide for various markets that you may be subject to or need to work within. What the heck does that have to do with paying a mortgage with a hen and a pig?

The whole purpose for paper currency is to create a playing field where all items, including the mortgage and the pigs and hens, can have a value in that currency. Therefore you can sell enough of one to pay the other.

Paper currency is merely a medium where assets can be changed into another asset, nothing more.
The point I'm making Javelin is that one must really think through the value you place on the dollar you have and the amount of risk you want to place on it. Gold only has the value tha someone tells you it has. How do you determine value? Whatever your answer is I promise you someone will come along very soon and change your answer for you.

Scott

You could probably make that payment but I'd bet you'd have to bring it in unless you wanted it stolen. ;)

Damn Scott, we going to keep going around in circles or what?
No.

Scott

Whatever your answer is I promise you someone will come along very soon and change your answer for you.

Scott
And that's the only way you make money on investments.

Buy low, sell high.


Not the reverse. ;)

Javelin,
What do you think about the fake bullion?

Does this have potential to have a significant effect on the Gold prices? The dollar?

Fill us in.

Poof!


Someday. Like a fart in the breeze.

Scott

Poof!


Someday. Like a fart in the breeze.

Scott
$2 trillion already went poof!

That's part of the reason gold is up.

Scary times for many.
I'm sitting okay.

$2 trillion already went poof!

That's part of the reason gold is up.

Scary times for many.
I'm sitting okay.


Scott

http://ihregistry.com/forum/messages/2/163876.jpg