bug out pack

Thought maybe we could go through this.
I have a tentative list.

Bug out pack menu

· Pack

· Clothes

Summer

Winter

rain

· Sleeping

Bag

Emergency blanket

Poncho liner

Mosquito netting

· Food

MRE’s

Rice

Ramen noodles

Canned

Water filter

Animal calls

Snares/knowledge

Wild plants

Fishing line, hooks, etc

· Hygiene items

Toilet paper

Bandages

Nail clippers

Toothbrush and toothpaste

Antibiotic cream/ointment

· Health

Antibiotics

Anti-emetics

Anti-nausea

Salt and sugar—or drink mix

· Fire

Lighters

Magnesium firestarter

Heat tabs

Cotton balls soaked in petroleum jelly

Folding saw

· Water

Camelback

canteens

· Weapons and tools

Rifle

Pistol

Knife

Guncleaning gear

oil

Tomahawk/hatchet

E-tool

Leatherman tool

Binocs

· Ammo

Loaded mags

Ammo in battlepacks or tins

· Load bearing gear

· Compass

· Paracord

· Information

Maps

Books

· Cache

· Comm.

Radio—intel

Batteries

· Miscellaneous

Duct tape

Zip ties

Sewing kit

smoke

I keep a BOB in my trunk 24/7. Your contents are similar to mine. If I "knew" for sure that I'd have use of my car, I'd certainly pack more, but I figure if the SHTF, I'll be on foot and have to remain mobile. For that reason, weight is a major factor. I have succeeded in keeping my pack under 30 pounds excluding my AK and magazines. It does include a PF9 to back up the G17 I'll be carrying.

I have made no considerations for food or water because I believe I will find those items along the way. The BOB is not for a long sustained absence, but a fast get away planning one day at a time. A speedy getaway is my main consideration. One item I would strongly suggest is a particle mask (like painters use). I keep 2 at the very top of the main pouch. I believe I'll be using one of those long before I'd need a gun.

Each of my rifle magazines is wrapped with 25' of paracord.

From your list, I have the following items:

Single shoulder multi-pouch Pack
Face masks
Rubber gloves
Work gloves
Flash lights
Light sticks
Knives
Rain poncho
Emergency blanket
Mosquito head netting
Fishing line, hooks, etc
Full first aid kit w/trauma items
Lighters
Magnesium firestarter
GI fuel cells
Wire commando saw
Water container
Guncleaning gear
E-tool
Compass
Duct tape
Zip ties
Sewing kit
Leatherman tool
Radio (AM-FM-SW)—crank powered
Batteries
Two loaded 19 rd G17 mags
2 boxes of 9mm FMJ

Carried separately: AK w/5 full mags (possibly only 2)

This bag is onsale at LA Police Gear for less than $20:
http://www.lapolicegear.com/tabaoutbag.html

not buggin out, im buggin in. going to circle the dead cars and prepare. why leave shelter and expose yourself, doesnt make any sense to me. i can see having a bag in the jeep in case of trouble while away from the home.

not buggin out, im buggin in. going to circle the dead cars and prepare. why leave shelter and expose yourself, doesnt make any sense to me. i can see having a bag in the jeep in case of trouble while away from the home.
I absolutely agree. It is almost always a bad idea to bugout in SHTF unless there is a catastrophe known to be heading your way such as Hurricane Katrina.


Perhaps the term bugout bag is a misnomer in my case. Maybe the better term would be fighting pack.

Looking to get the most out of the least, if you know what I mean.

"It is almost always a bad idea to bugout in SHTF"

If there's light at the end of the tunnel, hunkering down may be a good idea. When the options dwindle away and they're beating at your door....

With hindsight, I'll bet the WWII Jews in Warsaw and the the Iraqis that were gassed in their homes by Saddam would disagree. During the riots in the late 60's, people were literally trapped by the mobs in their homes. Unless you have a fortified defensive position, mobility is more appealing to me.

Having an option is the key. No one says you have to leave until you have to leave. I'd rather have the bag ready to go and not need it than to need it and not have it.

"It is almost always a bad idea to bugout in SHTF"

If there's light at the end of the tunnel, hunkering down may be a good idea. When the options dwindle away and they're beating at your door....

With hindsight, I'll bet the WWII Jews in Warsaw and the the Iraqis that were gassed in their homes by Saddam would disagree. During the riots in the late 60's people were trapped by the mobs in their homes.

Having an option is the key. No one says you have to leave until you have to leave. I'd rather have the bag ready to go and not need it than to need it and not have it.
Agreed.
Always good to have one ready.

Also make note of my comment "almost always". ;)

If bad shit is coming and you see it, get out if you have somewhere to go before it is too late.

Most people just plan on running, with no real plan beyond that. Not much of a plan and most of the time they are better off staying put with their food, water, defensive measures, etc. I could elaborate but I have already done so plenty of times. Most aren't going to listen and it isn't going to go well.

Agreed.

And, I know you can improvise when the time comes.

\ One item I would strongly suggest is a particle mask (like painters use). I keep 2 at the very top of the main pouch. I believe I'll be using one of those long before I'd need a gun.

I am guessing you would have to bugout from urban destruction?

Or why do you recommend those?

Yes, I am in an urban area, South Florida. The masks are good for everything from dust, to nuclear fallout, to disease. They are recommended by emergency services. If you're out in the country, the need may not be as great, but having a couple available is cheap insurance. And they stow easily.

We have a nuclear plant, a very major port, hurricane season, urban unrest, and alligators. Your guess is as good as mine as to WHAT to prepare for.

I've been through a direct-hit major hurricane (Wilma and Andrew) that shut down south Florida for weeks (some areas for months). Our experience has taught one thing: that preparation makes all the difference in the world. If New Orleans had the experience Floridians have, their plight would have been far less. Example: FEMA recommends 72 hours worth of food and water (N.O. didn't even heed that warning). Any south Floridian with half a brain has at least 2 weeks of provisions during hurricane season.

Each area will pose it's own unique problems. We will all have to adapt to the situations as they may occur. My plan is no better or worse than anyone else's, but I know when I go through the door, I'll be prepared.

Good luck.

Yes, I am already quite rural. Already bugged out, in effect.

Might need to leave quickly, however. Just never know.

Figured it would be a good discussion for myself and for others.

Appreciate the input, Ted.

ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

stow easily.

FEMA recommends 72 hours worth of food and water (N.O. didn't even heed that warning). Any south Floridian with half a brain has at least 2 weeks of provisions during hurricane season.


Good luck.Yeah food and water is a big thing,I have roughly 2 months worth of food for 3 people.I have a pool as a backup for water.If the SHTF I'm "buggin in",I live in a semi rural area with good neighbors,this would be the best place for me and my family.

ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Nope, gotta fit in a buttpack and a medium alice pack.

Anything that doesn't would have to be cached.

Yes, I am in an urban area, South Florida. The masks are good for everything from dust, to nuclear fallout, to disease. They are recommended by emergency services. If you're out in the country, the need may not be as great, but having a couple available is cheap insurance. And they stow easily.

We have a nuclear plant, a very major port, hurricane season, urban unrest, and alligators. Your guess is as good as mine as to WHAT to prepare for.

I've been through a direct-hit major hurricane (Wilma and Andrew) that shut down south Florida for weeks (some areas for months). Our experience has taught one thing: that preparation makes all the difference in the world. If New Orleans had the experience Floridians have, their plight would have been far less. Example: FEMA recommends 72 hours worth of food and water (N.O. didn't even heed that warning). Any south Floridian with half a brain has at least 2 weeks of provisions during hurricane season.

Each area will pose it's own unique problems. We will all have to adapt to the situations as they may occur. My plan is no better or worse than anyone else's, but I know when I go through the door, I'll be prepared.

Good luck. When faced with nuclear fallout I prefer the duck and cover method.....DUST MASK!!!???

When faced with nuclear fallout I prefer the duck and cover method.....DUST MASK!!!???
In general, radioisotopes that enter your body do FAR more damage. I won't bore you with the details.

This is through inhalation and ingestion, most always.

Radiation effects are based on dose, for all practical purposes.
--of course some isotopes are worse than others with regards to type of radiation, half-life, etc. Some are taken up in and incorporated in bone, etc.
--some have very short half-lives--decay rapidly. Others might have half-lives in the billions of years.

However, a good mask will filter out many of the larger particles that would have radioactive material as part of them.

I really can't recommend not having any food and/or water in your bag. 3 MREs weigh next to nothing, take minimal space and will keep you going for the better part of a week if need be. Water is even more critical. An osmo pump is a good idea, but there is no guarentee ANY water source will be readily avail.

Antibiotics, pain meds and some stimulants/sleeping pills will come in handy too. The first week will be critical. And you might not be 100%. Mentally you almost certainly will not be. And unless you have been humping your pack around on 20 mi forced marches on a daily basis (highly unlikely) after the first day you won't be 100% physically either...

In general, radioisotopes that enter your body do FAR more damage. I won't bore you with the details.

This is through inhalation and ingestion, most always.

Radiation effects are based on dose, for all practical purposes.
--of course some isotopes are worse than others with regards to type of radiation, half-life, etc. Some are taken up in and incorporated in bone, etc.
--some have very short half-lives--decay rapidly. Others might have half-lives in the billions of years.

However, a good mask will filter out many of the larger particles that would have radioactive material as part of them.

+1 though I'm not sure how many radioactive isotopes you need to worry about with 1/2 lives of BILLIONS of years...

+1 though I'm not sure how many radioactive isotopes you need to worry about with 1/2 lives of BILLIONS of years...
You don't really (unless you get a very large dose)--that's the point.
On the other hand, isotopes with short half-lives do the opposite but decay to stable isotopes in a relatively short time. Mostly this is why you can start going outside after about 2 weeks proceeding a nuclear incident.
Residual heavy isotopes can still be bad, of course.

There is no simple "radiation is radiation".
There are alpha, beta, neutrons, gamma and xray (last two are high energy photons and similar in characteristics for the most part though gamma is higher energy).

They all have different characteristics, affect matter differently.
They can all damage DNA also.

For instance, alpha particles striking you from the environment do not even penetrate the skin. They are charged particles with a larger relative mass--basically they are Helium nuclei with a +2 charge.
Inside the body, they will do a lot of damage to cells.

Beta = free, loose electrons
--low mass
--neg charge
Outside the body they can have moderate penetration and do some damage. Inside, more damage but not as much as alpha.
Outside, more damage than alpha.

Neutrons
--no charge
--fair relative mass--equal to a proton
--penetrate extremely well due to lack of charge but due to mass can be quite damaging, esp in large numbers.
Inside or outside the body, bad--due to penetration
A proton combining with an electron will become a neutron. This doesn't happen easily.

Proton
+1 charge
Same mass, essentially, as a neutron
Charged and relatively heavy can do quite a bit of damage--more inside.

Xray and gamma
--high energy photons
--matters little whether from out or in, at least much less so than the alpha or beta. These penetrate well.
--still ionize tissue but not as bad as the heavy particles

For the most part these are due to decay of nuclei that result in new atoms due to change in atomic number/mass.

The decay of a specific nucleus can result in more than one particle being released. Some will just release one. For the most part, heavier particles being relesed are accompanied by photons (gamma) due to conservation of energy principles and the interchangeability of mass and energy according to the famous equation:

E = mc^2
--actually, m is really the change in mass
--c is the speed of light--a very large number and squared, this is huge. Hence, why a small change in mass relates to a huge release of energy--ie nuclear weapons.


Nuclei of specific isotopes decay in predictable fashion to a predictable new nucleus/isotope. Some can decay more than one way but there are predictable patterns. They cannot decay to any other possible element. There are limited options for a specific radioisotope.

There is also antimatter--very short lived due to their extreme capacity to interact with matter--releasing pure energy.

_____________________
What can I say?
I'm bored to freakin tears. My dog has a severe staph infection I am taking care of and I have been cooped up in the house for the past week. Finally getting better but a long way from healed and she needs 24/7 observation as yet.

Also note that as these particles pass through matter they generate other ionized (and therefore highly reacitve) particles that react chemically with the matter around them.
For instance, an alpha particle flying through a cell will rip electrons off other atoms and these highly reactive e-s will combine chemically with whatever they have handy to react with. This will generate another ionized particle, etc.

This is not the same as a nuclear chain reaction.

My head hurts.

I am no expert, but wouldn't something with a half life in the Billions of years be generating primarily Alpha waves? Basic hygene practices + a decent mask should protect most from particulate ingestion.

If you are anywhere near a blast zone Gamma will cook you quick, but for most wouldn't the real danger be Alpha, especially in the case of a so called "Dirty Bomb" (Conventional explosive packed with radioactive material)?

I am no expert, but wouldn't something with a half life in the Billions of years be generating primarily Alpha waves? Basic hygene practices + a decent mask should protect most from particulate ingestion.

If you are anywhere near a blast zone Gamma will cook you quick, but for most wouldn't the real danger be Alpha, especially in the case of a so called "Dirty Bomb" (Conventional explosive packed with radioactive material)?
Just depends on the radio-isotope.
In general, the longer half life stuff gives off heavier particles but not always.

I have a radionuclide chart somewhere--couldn't find it. I'll have to look some more. It shows how each isotope decays and the path they go down to achieve stability.

When they decay is completely random but with large samples we can predict half-lives, which is why we have to base our thoughts on that.


Alpha just isn't very dangerous outside the body. It is so heavy, charged, and therefore reactive, that it "spends" itself just getting through the outer layers of skin. In fact, a sheet of paper will stop most of it.

Inside the body, of course, it is a whole different story because it is very close to live cells. The skin you see is compacted layers of dead cells with little remaining other than keratin--a protein.
It is very hard on live cells if it gets into them.

Thank you for posting you list, it is always helpful to see how others are prepared.
I see no listing for personal items, while I cannot presume to know your mind, I know time can pass slowly when in a crisis and it slows even more when all you have to do is sit and worry. (I live in Fl, hurricanes can have a profound effect on your schedule.) In our grab and go bags, we have a Bible, cards and dice. All three can really make for an entertaining evening if you are sitting under a tarp in the rain.
I’d also add for consideration
A prepaid cel phone
gum
Powdered drink mix packets.
A pint of liquor.
Foot powder
MAYBE a small fishing kit.
p-38 or other can opener
I head strap flashlight (keeps hands free and a directional light… I know it isn’t very tactical but it can be practical)

Don't forget beer! And bug repellent!
I don't feel like running into the swamps.
Leaving my family and home just isn't possible and they couldn't keep up anyway.
And why should I let the assholes just take everything I worked for?

any special considerations to look for when buying the dust masks?

im still working (slowly) on my BOB but i would suggest waterproofing the contents in ziplock bags.
its one thing to carry a 40lb bag of all the shit you think youll need, its another to carry that 40lbs PLUS all the rain or river water it absorbs. not to mention cleaning all the radioactive dust from each item since were on the subject of dirty bombs and power plants. and packing everything in bags might help you keep your shit organized

in reference to BOBs (not fighting packs) remember you first need shelter, then water, then food. inclimate weather can kill in hours (or faster), dehydration kills next, then starvation.

Doc do you have separate clothing for summer winter, or additional layers to add to your summer gear for winter?

TedG what do you mean by GI fuel cells?

Nope, gotta fit in a buttpack and a medium alice pack.

Anything that doesn't would have to be cached.


Agreed. 3 MRE's, Couple of pairs of socks and t-shirts, "MOLESKIN" for foot blisters and foot powder (if your dogs don't work neither do you), 550 cord. Toothpaste and brush. Get your basic military LBE with buttpack and double up your mag pouchs=360 rounds. 2 canteens with water purification tabs and a heat source. Keep in mind that there will be millions of home waterheaters out there with 40+ gallons of water in them. Small mag light. K-bar. I actually hang my LBE belt from a tactical vest giving me 18 mags=540 rounds. Remember LA riots 1000's of peeps on the street. Katrin was a nightmare. EMS left to fend for themselves, police force shopping @ walmart, Private security firms contracted to guard existing hositals (complete with snipers on the roof tops). Alice Pack is another story. A little reading to educate yourself. Contrary to belief, it is rather easy to start a fire in the rain with wet materials. Learn how to make snares and early warning devices with bottles, small tree branches and 550 cord. Knowledge is as important as supplies. This is just a start.

GI fuel cells can be found at most gun shows. They are plainly marked and generally come 3 to a pack (5"x3"1"). I would venture to say that they are similar to sterno. They provide an easy to light fire.

oh yeah oh yeah, i know exactly what your talking about.

Signal Mirror ... did you ever look at the disc in a hard drive? Its already got a hole for aiming. Just needs a pouch.

Loud Whistle

Hard candy.

A couple space blankets (they pack small and light and are multi function ... cheap insurance if the rest of your shit gets wet)

A couple of large heavy trash bags. (also Multi function).


Warm, dry socks. A couple pair. Could be worth their weight in gold.

I used to ski a LOT ... and always had a bag with dry clothing, extra sweaters and extra socks ... EVERYBODY else always ended up with my spare socks!!!

T

Some great info here. There are those(many) who have nowhere to bug-out to however, which may not be the best option anyway depending on circumstance. Being ready to both stay put for an extended period or to 'bug out' if needed would be wise I think.

One slight problem with space blankets, at least the cheap Mylar thin kind you pick up at Wally World. I had one stuffed away in my glove box for emergencies, one day I went to use it and the thing was falling apart. It had stuck to itself and unfolding it tore it all apart. Had been in there maybe a year or so. YMMV.

on the fall-out possibilities ... duck in ditch from blast, seal off somewhere for 2 weeks, venture out slowly after that, and know the local prevailing wind situations, as well as potential local stationary targets, and info or recon from what actually went down - if dirty bomb, missile attack, sabotage, etc. plan travel direction if necessary accordingly.

Q: is it worth bringing a geiger counter in bo kit, and how well do they work with the spectrum of isotopes listed above? talking the 1960 civil defense vintage ones from SG.

More:

powder drink mix can be Emergen-C.
Vitamins D, and as above, C in med pack.
Zinc lozenges for hard candy
Sun block

camo paint for the gillie suit moments.

i like the freezer bag idea, esp for warm, dry socks.

what about the new ACU NIR camo, how helpful is that for concealment?

One slight problem with space blankets, at least the cheap Mylar thin kind you pick up at Wally World. I had one stuffed away in my glove box for emergencies, one day I went to use it and the thing was falling apart. It had stuck to itself and unfolding it tore it all apart. Had been in there maybe a year or so. YMMV.

I tried (tested?) a cheap one to see how it works and etc. The cheap ones ARE fragile, almost disposable. It DOES keep you warm ... but only once!

You can patch it ... but eventually It would become a Duct Tape Space Blanket.

I wasn't aware that they degraded over time and heat and cold cycles. Maybe they should be dated for freshness.

There are types that are more durable. A bit more expensive ... and harder to find perhaps.

Their size, weight and effectiveness makes them worth looking for.

T

A couple tea bags. Packs small ... and is VERY light.

Coffee has a VERY distinctive odor ... it REALLY sticks out. Tea does not have such a strong signature.

A warm beverage with a little caffeine is a GREAT restorative.

Dual purpose?

T

tubing for gas syphoning, temporary plumbing uses.

for the bug-in crowd, bleach for H20 purification,
for the rest: both oregano oil and grape seed extract will
chemically purify drinking water. HD has screens for paint filtering (white nylon, for spray rigs) which would do the initial clearing of sediment from found standing water, and they fold into tiny squares. 2 bucks.

A couple tea bags.



Dual purpose?

T

only if you can wack a passing liberal zombie with 'em.

Its good to remember what your needs are.

Simple survival? Most important you need to stay warm and dry. Second in line is water. A distant third is food.

Every element you add to the challenge of Simple Survival ... i.e., surviving in a hostile military environment ... more "tools" will be required.

But you simply cannot carry EVERYTHING. Sharing the load with a buddy helps ... the more buddies you have ... the more you need ... but the greater variety you can have.

Size and weight is ALWAYS a consideration.

Does durability of one item win out over an item that has several uses?

TEST EVERYTHING! HARD!!!

Know how it works, how strong it is and how long it lasts.

The latest leatherman tool is GREAT ... on paper ... if the freakin' think breaks the first time you use it ... you've been humping a piece of shit! Weight and space that could have been something else.


SKILLS, SKILLS, SKILLS!!!

Your head ... and what you got in it is what is gonna keep your ass alive.

Invest in LEARNING before you invest in gadgets.


for instance:

How many different ways can YOU start a fire? How fast?

Now lose your bug out bag. NOW ... How many different ways can YOU start a fire? How fast? Or cut something ... or shelter yourself ... or find water ... Or...?

T

tubing for gas syphoning, temporary plumbing uses.

for the bug-in crowd, bleach for H20 purification,
for the rest: both oregano oil and grape seed extract will
chemically purify drinking water. HD has screens for paint filtering (white nylon, for spray rigs) which would do the initial clearing of sediment from found standing water, and they fold into tiny squares. 2 bucks.

Tincture of Iodine. It tastes like shit but it packs smaller and is also multi function.

The tanic acid in a teabag has a number of medical uses ...

Suppose you get a sty?

a REAL BAD ONE!!!

T

speaking of knowledge, anyone wanna briefly discuss battlefield first aid ... specifically gun shot wounds, where you may have to heal on your own w/o secondary care facilities? sterile bullet removal, cleansing, type of antibiotics, wound closure, drainage provisions, packing, dressing changes, signs to watch for, found plants for healing, etc. don't have that manual, and packing lite as ted suggested ;-)

tea bags are a great idea, btw.

speaking of knowledge, anyone wanna briefly discuss battlefield first aid ...

The Doc is REAL good here ... he's written some good stuff on this ... worth searching for.

tea bags are a great idea, btw.

Suppose you came across some buttered scones? What then? Without tea ... I don't even DARE think!


If you wear glasses ... PACK A SPARE PAIR IN A HARD SHELL CASE.

If you wear dentures or have a fixture ... pack super glue!

t

pack super glue anyway!

I'd add that in any SHTF situation that was regional-only (hurricanes or earthquakes, for example), you will need paperwork such as birth cert., current resume, proof of degrees earned, etc, for when it is time to establish yourself in a new location.
There's a blog written by a Katrina survivor in which he details the trouble he had finding a job, getting an apartment, etc after he got out of New Orleans. He was qualified, but he had no proof of who he was, etc.

As a side note, while a pool is a great reservour for water, the moment you start getting fallout it becomes contaminated, especially if you get rainfall.

There may be times that you have to go for long periods of time in the same clothing ... dampness, dirt, sweat, urine, mixed with moveing around is gonna lead to chafing of the skin ... and probably a good case of jock rash.

While not fatal, rashes like this can mess up your day...big time.

I've not seen this discussed anywhere ...

Keeping in mind the various survival scenarios ... does anybody have any field improvised treatments or remedies that don't require a drugstore full of stuff?

T

Thinking ahead is ALWAYS a good idea.

when this topic came up last year ... I got inspired to deal with some dental problems ... before things go bad.

Even the littlest problem with my teeth has ALWAYS led to a serious, debilitating infection. This would be a horror to try to treat in a SHTF situation.

So ... last year ...

Any teeth that were SOLID but needed minor repair .. got taken care of.

Any tooth that was questionable came out.

It was hard finding a dentist who was willing to do the work ... they all want to keep repairing the tooth ... but I did it.

Now I got a partial lower plate ... and KNOW the rest of what is in there is GOOD TO GO!!!

It was the best money I EVER spent.

Other than my 82 F100 and my Springfield M1A.

T

I'd add that in any SHTF situation that was regional-only (hurricanes or earthquakes, for example), you will need paperwork such as birth cert., current resume, proof of degrees earned, etc, for when it is time to establish yourself in a new location.
There's a blog written by a Katrina survivor in which he details the trouble he had finding a job, getting an apartment, etc after he got out of New Orleans. He was qualified, but he had no proof of who he was, etc.

You're absolutely correct. I laminated a copy of the ID page of my passport, my driver's license, and my CWL. All 3 have photos. I carry those copies in my BOB.

I went to a Red Cross disaster preparedness class and they recommended at least 6 weeks worth of food/water. Also talked about having important paperwork easy to grab in a hurry.
If they have this training in your area you should go.

If storing bleach for water purification make sure it's plain, NOT the scented kind.

As for the bag itself ... consider one of these:

http://gunnyssurplus.com/m1945-cargo.html

I was kinda surprised to see these things again.

I've had one since I was in the Boy Scouts. We're were kinda poor and couldn't afford the "official" stuff ... so my Dad got me US Army Surplus. The back pack ... and this M 1945 cargo bag.

It would strap on to the bottom of the back pack to carry extra extra gear. I remember that it wasn't real comfortable flopping around at the bottom of a back pack ... for an 80 pound skinny kid ...

But its soft shape and carry handle makes it REAL handy.

Its been in almost constant use since the freakin' mid-sixties!

Currently I use it to haul first aid gear, some survival stuff ... and dry socks ... whenever I go hunting or target shooting.

I've used it a MILLION times as a steady rest.

The rubberized liner is starting to disintegrate ... other then that ... over 40 years of service ... and its still good to go! It fits GREAT behind the seats of a Ford Pickup!

If I were to get more of them ... I would add D rings so you could hook a shoulder strap to it.

T

Doc do you have separate clothing for summer winter, or additional layers to add to your summer gear for winter?
Sorry about the delay in answering. I lost track of this thread and I've had other things going on.

I do layers and have a fair variety of outdoor clothing. I could probably be better set up for winter wear as dressing for extended stays out during that season is a science in itself. I've looked into it some. Seems polyprop for skin layer and then good wool outerwear with layers depending on what is needed.

You do not want to get sweated up out there. Being a little cold is better than getting wet.

TedG what do you mean by GI fuel cells?
I believe he is talking about the military trioxane pellets for small fires. You can heat up a quick meal or a canteen cup full of water with one of these easily. Handy to have and I have a few just in case.
Where I live it is not difficult to come up with combustible material--I live in the middle of a large forest. I think that a fire could be started quickly.

The petroleum jelly soaked/coated cotton balls are supposed to be quite good for starting fires.

Fire and water are awfully important things and miscalculations on either end of the scale with both, can kill you.
Check out the Wildwood Survival site if you are not sure how to manage these. There are some really good tips on survival with next to nothing. I was quite impressed with the site.

One slight problem with space blankets, at least the cheap Mylar thin kind you pick up at Wally World. I had one stuffed away in my glove box for emergencies, one day I went to use it and the thing was falling apart. It had stuck to itself and unfolding it tore it all apart. Had been in there maybe a year or so. YMMV.
I have one from cabelas--olive drab outside, fairly heavy duty.

$12

on the fall-out possibilities ... duck in ditch from blast, seal off somewhere for 2 weeks, venture out slowly after that, and know the local prevailing wind situations, as well as potential local stationary targets, and info or recon from what actually went down - if dirty bomb, missile attack, sabotage, etc. plan travel direction if necessary accordingly.

Q: is it worth bringing a geiger counter in bo kit, and how well do they work with the spectrum of isotopes listed above? talking the 1960 civil defense vintage ones from SG.
Probably not.
--takes up to much space
--what are you going to do anyhow?
--the mica 'lens' over the detector portion is very thin and brittle. IOWs easily broken
--proper use of one is not something the average person possesses, nor an understanding of what is detectable.

It would be nice to have one around for bugging in.

I do believe you got a copy of my CD. If you look in the survival section there are a couple of good resources on nuclear events/fallout, etc. One is fairly simple and easy to understand. It is far superior to nothing and will get you through most of what is survivable. IMO.

The longer of the two resources has a section on fallout patterns after a nuclear exchange. Very good to know what your area can expect. There were a few surprises there for me. Check out Arkansas and Missouri, general area. They would get smoked according to that map. Living on the West coast away from cities and on the East coast inland some from cities seem to be some of the safest areas though at first thought most of us wouldn't think so.
At least know the prevailing winds, weather patterns, how far from cities, mil bases, heavy industrial areas, power sources, etc.

Terrorists could be expected to hit population centers and fragile infrastructure entities. I continue to hold that our electrical grid is a real achilles heel for both us and for any advanced society.

Thinking ahead is ALWAYS a good idea.

when this topic came up last year ... I got inspired to deal with some dental problems ... before things go bad.

Even the littlest problem with my teeth has ALWAYS led to a serious, debilitating infection. This would be a horror to try to treat in a SHTF situation.

So ... last year ...

Any teeth that were SOLID but needed minor repair .. got taken care of.

Any tooth that was questionable came out.

It was hard finding a dentist who was willing to do the work ... they all want to keep repairing the tooth ... but I did it.

Now I got a partial lower plate ... and KNOW the rest of what is in there is GOOD TO GO!!!

It was the best money I EVER spent.

Other than my 82 F100 and my Springfield M1A.

T
Good planning, Ted.

Get your issues dealt with guys. One day you may not have the chance and you might get serious issues.

Also know that simple vitamin deficiencies can be very debilitating.

Vit C defic = Scurvy---does anyone know what rosehips are?

Vit D defic = Rickets---can be consumed but is made by your skin in the presence of sunlight

--both of these are well known due to their seasonal issues.

tubing for gas syphoning, temporary plumbing uses.
Can also be used for 1st aid emergencies.
I could put a crich tube in someone in seconds and save their life.

I also keep an 18ga syringe needle handy for needle decompression of a chest wound, pneumothorax.

for the bug-in crowd, bleach for H20 purification,
for the rest: both oregano oil and grape seed extract will
chemically purify drinking water.
I would question whether either of last two can be counted on for water purification.

In the event of true SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, contaminated water will probably kill more people than any other thing. It pays to use caution.
For those bugging in, having a still is not a bad idea at all as it will also separate the water from radioactive particles provided you know what you are doing.

Make certain you know something about stills before buying or making one.

Lead solder is a big no-no and they should be made of copper, not iron or steel.

I don't have one but I think about getting one from time to time. If I am bugging in I am pretty well set. If I have to move out, I won't be bringing much with me. The only reason I'd be bugging out would be major, major disaster or all out war. IOWs both circumstances where it is likely I may not be coming back at all.

Maps and compass:

I have a decent wrist compass---made by Suunto--it was $25 or so and is handy.

Maps---every state has map books--laminated topo maps af all the sections of the state. This would easily fit in the back of your pack--flat and relatively thin. In a pinch just rip out the sections you need.

I've been looking for one and now that I am looking, I haven't found one. Used to see them all over the damn place.

I don't get the GPS bit, or the rigamaroll people go through with compasses but I always understood maps and compasses, even in 2nd grade. I never get lost and I always know what way I am going.

There are a lot of little tricks you can know to keep your direction, etc.

More on the emergency blanket.

Even in the cold, you could make it through a night with one of these. Get out of the wind, use some bark, etc to make something to sit on off the snow with the blanket wrapped over your shoulders and/or head.
Make a very small fire between your legs and keep it going, keep it small. You have essentially made your own teepee.

You can also build a heat reflector with sticks or rocks, across from you on the other side of the fire. This will help also.

Always make certain you have enough wood to last the night.


As you can see, a lot of my planning has to involve surviving the cold and the lack of food that goes with that. There is an abundance of water where I live and I put that low on my list of concerns. I also live on a lake and have my own well. We get plenty of rain as well.

I know I have said this before
But watch the TV show JERICHO from 2006
Its about a limited Nuclear attack on the US and what happens.
A lot of good info and some bad,, It gives you alot to think about.

Dave

I know I have said this before
But watch the TV show JERICHO from 2006
Its about a limited Nuclear attack on the US and what happens.
A lot of good info and some bad,, It gives you alot to think about.

Dave
I agree.
Don't agree with all of it but there are some very useful lessons and info.

I would encourage people to watch it also.

I agree.
Don't agree with all of it but there are some very useful lessons and info.

I would encourage people to watch it also.

It really showed how supplies would run out real quick and the failure of the electrical grid and communications
And the dropping of all the airliners was really thought out

Dave

Yeah, the electrical grid would be easily taken out.

-Food was a big issue.
-Medicine
-Water for some communities--I wouldn't expect much of a problem where I live but the level of true local govt incompetence may yet be borne out. Won't matter for me personally though.

-Struggles for power

-Fighting between communities for resources, esp food---I think this is realistic, at least in the short term. In an ideal situation, with good leadership locally, communities would establish and maintain trade in resources, goods and services. That would be the best way to keep things afloat.

Good stuff though

The part where the airline pilots where blinded by the blast`s would be real
Air Force crews have a black lens in the helmets for that sort of stuff

Can also be used for 1st aid emergencies.
I could put a crich tube in someone in seconds and save their life.

I also keep an 18ga syringe needle handy for needle decompression of a chest wound, pneumothorax.


I would question whether either of last two can be counted on for water purification.

In the event of true SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, contaminated water will probably kill more people than any other thing. It pays to use caution.
For those bugging in, having a still is not a bad idea at all as it will also separate the water from radioactive particles provided you know what you are doing.

Make certain you know something about stills before buying or making one.

Lead solder is a big no-no and they should be made of copper, not iron or steel.

I don't have one but I think about getting one from time to time. If I am bugging in I am pretty well set. If I have to move out, I won't be bringing much with me. The only reason I'd be bugging out would be major, major disaster or all out war. IOWs both circumstances where it is likely I may not be coming back at all.

the fruit/herb concoctions are for bactiria only(and work). SOL on other contaminants, you are correct.

lead free soldier is pretty standard at HD for plumbing, as is coiled copper.


plants ! , or everyone should have a survival plant wildcraft book in the pack:
plaintain, Vit A, buckwheat and amaranth (grains w/lysene, mix with corn for complete protein)

doc, what about bullet wounds, as above in earlier query?

us geological service, park ranger offices have topos for your area. have found them online as well. compasses: angle of differential(?) seemed the only tricky thing about map travel. -10/15% east coast, +10/15% west from your map's true north, in the US. bets are all off in a pole shift, see below.

saw the fallout map, you're quite right. i will look into the other document for alpha and beta measurements. serious concern, will grid failure, also see below.

SO what if we are bugging in/out for a cosmic 2012 event? who here is hip to this side of things? same scenero but much worse than a war or the combo of events as we usually discuss.

2012pro.com
it is my thinking now that all this political stuff et.al. is because all the world govs know this is about to occur. the guys name, is 'geryl' and his description
is here:

http://www.howtosurvive2012.com/

boats? bug out boat?

the fruit/herb concoctions are for bactiria only(and work).
I doubt it :straightf

lead free soldier is pretty standard at HD for plumbing, as is coiled copper.Agreed but is something people should definitely be aware of.


doc, what about bullet wounds, as above in earlier query?That is a very large topic and I am not a trauma surgeon.
However, there is no way to even begin to explain without someone knowing anatomy VERY well.
STOP THE BLEEDING!
That is probably the best you can do in any type of setting we discuss. Not every bullet needs to be removed, contrary to television BS.
Then you must repair damage where necessary and that totally depends on what structure or organ is affected.

us geological service, park ranger offices have topos for your area.Yes, I've got quite a few for my AO.
They are outstanding maps but it would be difficult to carry enough to make them worthwhile for any serious travel.



saw the fallout map, you're quite right. i will look into the other document for alpha and beta measurements. serious concern, will grid failure, also see below.Alpha is not detectable with a geiger counter. See earlier posts on radioactive particles.

SO what if we are bugging in/out for a cosmic 2012 event? who here is hip to this side of things? same scenero but much worse than a war or the combo of events as we usually discuss.

2012pro.com
it is my thinking now that all this political stuff et.al. is because all the world govs know this is about to occur. the guys name, is 'geryl' and his description
is here:

http://www.howtosurvive2012.com/

boats? bug out boat?Having a bug out boat is a great idea. Keep it confidential though. Majorly confidential. This is really only if you plan to leave the country though and then where are you going?
You could make your way down a major river, through the great lakes, etc and it would afford the opportunity to avoid the traffic which will be going nowhere fast.
If you did make it to another country, it is assumed that you will be welcomed with open arms. Don't bet on it. Same as rural folks in this country are not going to be tolerant of all the city assholes that think they are just going to run to the countryside and take what they want. I'm already here and I know the area like the back of my hand. Plenty more just like me and none of us like city assholes. Nothing personal towards anyone here but something to bear in mind.

Having a passport is a great idea. I'm thinking about that one myself.

I figure being an american doctor I have a better chance of emmigrating but I operate under no delusion that even with that, I will be guaranteed admittance anywhere. There are still thieves and pirates to deal with as well.

The 2012 Mayan calendar BS is such tripe I can't believe ANYONE takes it seriously.

Maybe plan for things that are for real.

I am curious exactly what you expect to happen Dec 2012?
Seriously. WTF is supposed to happen?

It's rubbish. The calendar is cyclical and the final portion of the calendar is missing. That's it. These people used to sacrifice one another to the gods and you are going to let them tell you what is going to happen over a thousand years in advance?
Nothing but primitives.

I'll tell you what I think the worst things that can happen to us:
1]asteroid strike--more common throughout history than we are aware. We are beginning to understand. This is the stuff right out of Revelations IMO.
2]Eruption of Yellowstone caldera
3]Forest fire for me--that could be very bad.
4]Major volcanic eruption that would limit food growth. The Yellowstone caldera could be a worst case. It might take years to grwo any significant food supply again.

Now if you live on the coast--Hurricanes
Flooding in river basins and coastal areas.
Faults--earthquakes--most people underestimate these as there haven't been many really bad ones in memory

Nuclear war--that would be up there with the top part of the list but manmade and therefore I will keep that separate for now.

Plagues

there are a million things one could worry about, such is life. and a preparedness kit, especially noting, and noticing, the timbre of these times is a simple and logical effort.

but looking at a slightly larger picture than most foot soldiers - even their doctors - usually would wish to contemplate, would IMO, add to 'preparedness', these days.

i'm really only saying all this because i think there is an extremely exceptional group here. and i am quite aware of the grain of salt i equate to to most.

however ...

several things are mostly agreed to date. bolshivicks/socialism,
the destruction of the Christian Nation, - America - from within, the complete perversion of our federal government, the intentional, planned sabotage of our industry, schools, and moral values - all not too long ago, the very best in the world.

but can anyone pin point the reason? everyone seems to disagree here at this point, and the topic gets deep sixed.

beyond the idea that there is a hidden hand, (which is Satan, and his minions) which do this all from greed and plain debauchery, there are details which simply defy this as a complete explaination - to wit:

intentional seeded plague, prepared FEMA centers.
massive UN training centers here, mexico and canada/ Militarism of Civilian Police
massive trans-con tunnel systems, DIA
the Bill Gates seed vault in Norway
Google digitizing every written book, to send to the moon (!?)
chemtrails
the recent theft of 3 trillion from the treasury
the massive opium trade which US soldiers are unbeknowingly currently facilitating
the massive expenditures by the 'well-placed' currently on survival estates, including the government itself for it's chosen people, via the above black budget funding.

the fact that not one nation on this planet, at present, is making any attempt to conserve anything for future generations.

these facts, don't add up to the first, otherwise plausible theory. and there is too much of a 'professional quality' to the debunking, as these listed witnessed findings are brought up in conversation. i have watched it here on the 'files, consistently.

and i am not speaking of natural, and healthy skepticism, for this i have deep respect.

the current silly hollywood movie by this name is more of the same game of 'debunking'. but i believe, much more accurately, it would be better termed PysOps.

The long count mayan calendar is not a chipped rock. it is a math sequence, highly complex and accurate. and it is one of the few things that was/ is not held very close to the breast of the vatican, and The PTB. it is also sublimely simple, and can be made from wood, like an abacus or working wooden clock. it is based of a science of sun measurement which our great and modern society has only recently been able to even measure.

we sacrafice warriors for profit here too, are we primitive?

much more important than the mayans, is that countless surviving records of ancient cultures have left simular statements of this 'cosmic cycle' in their wake.

that our scientific community (or the hand which controls the mass media) knows all these things if true (or would tell us), is the height of arrogance - or a fools errand, in regard to our mutual plight, and this thread.

so this is a bit of why i say "there is something afoot here, and we are able to perceive it." read the internet, and read carefully, your life depends on this research.

the theory goes basically like this:

the .gov is quite aware that we have three years until major solar system/planetary disruptions end most life, and most of our civilization. thus there is no reason to conserve anything. the warming planet (like our whole solar system presently) and rapidly weakening magnetic spheres will begin showing obvious signs quite soon, and everyone is going to totally panic. and they know this will continue for several years into 2012. they simply don't want a rush on their own well stocked survival places. locking folks up first is their best plan. and only plan, for they are scared shitless, and i personally don't think very well prepared actually. (norad in a mountain? out in space?)

everything we have discussed as far as martial law, makes sense suddenly, as do all the other 'usually unmentionables' i have listed above. they know there's going to be an uprising, and they want a plausible reason (economic, pandemic, terrorist, UN treaty, pending war etc.) to keep an upper, ie, controlling hand in an otherwise beyond volatile situation. world wide.

doc it is interesting that your list of disasters is exactly what is going to happen, and yet, all at one time. yes it is biblical, remember the flood? a 10,000 plus year old story, borrowed from a culture which went through the last solar disruption ... and survived to leave word for the future generations of man. you are one whom can correlate what you know, with that which you do not know yet. i will help:

the sun is an electromagnet, which is wound by the gravitational pull of the surrounding planets. the sun's equator spins faster than it's poles, in fact lapping the poles position every 87 days, producing current. there is a point, which we have arrived at, where the entire system 'collapses', that is 'unwinds itself' and that is the 12,000 year cycle of life on this planet.

think back real hard: what happened 12,000 years ago? nada, we know nothing.
Sumerea? then egypt, then we know lots. what happened 48,000 years ago which led to the Vedic texts? or 90,000 years ago with the Dogone Peoples, which had astronomical awareness of Sirius A/B and the invisible red giant "C"? where is any continuity is this fractured history of Man? Why have we as a race never left this solar system, especially noting again today the level of technology we are actually at the threshold of? What event constantly stops Mankind's advancement?

Fire and brimstone! that is quite right.

when the 'system collapses' (note our magnetic shield is showing huge holes currently) the inner planets are blasted which solar radiation. the EMP stops everything electronic. the blast fractures the tectonic plates. it shifts the poles. we lose our normal protection from meteorites. we experience plasma blasts.
we get destroyed. volcanos erupt everywhere. the planet stops, but the oceans don't. refer to the trailer of "2012" with the Enterprise rolling onto the White House. toxic waste is everywhere. nuke plants all melt down, and we get to contend with that aspect of the clean air industry.

prior cultures dealt with this two ways: crawl into a hole and hope you're not squashed like a bug; or build an 'ark', or more commonly, a flotilla, and pray you can find some semblance of a shore line soon enough. if you can breathe in the engulfing volcanic fumes. it worked, for a few, every time, because i am writing this now.

one expectation of this event on Earth is a remaining stock of merely 10,000 breeding pairs. civilisation would require 100,000 such pairs to maintain what we have achieved so far. doesn't seem to work like that, judging history.

the sun, post-event, starts over it's cycle. the solar system is 'refreshed' and gradually returns to the protected /balanced state it once was, post ice-age, 12,000 years ago. the sea is cleaned and cold again. "atlantis" is again buried forever.

the gentleman i named above has stated this all most eloquently with interesting graphics via his web site. he was also the one whom was paid to advise the movie makers of "2012", and of which he was sorely disappointed in how hollywood twisted his findings and research. Patrick Geryl.

hope this all opened a few minds.

it has settled mine.

... at 7,000 ft. with an underground shelter and a get-a-way non-capsizable unsinkable ocean worthy boat just in case, and NO PASSPORT required. just divine providence. The US is going to get mighty cold soon.

and salty. ;-)

several things are mostly agreed to date. bolshivicks/socialism,Y
the destruction of the Christian Nation,Y - America - from within, the complete perversion of our federal government,Y the intentional, planned sabotage of our industry, schools, and moral valuesY - all not too long ago, the very best in the world.Y

but can anyone pin point the reason? everyone seems to disagree here at this point, and the topic gets deep sixed.Not

beyond the idea that there is a hidden hand, (which is Satan, and his minions) which do this all from greed and plain debauchery, there are details which simply defy this as a complete explaination - to wit:

intentional seeded plagueN, prepared FEMA centers.Maybe
massive UN training centers here questionable, mexico and canada/ Militarism of Civilian Police Y
massive trans-con tunnel systems???, DIA
the Bill Gates seed vault in Norway Yes, for good reason
Google digitizing every written book, to send to the moon (!?)
chemtrails NOOOOOO
the recent theft of 3 trillion from the treasury YES
the massive opium trade which US soldiers are unbeknowingly currently facilitating :rolleyes:
the massive expenditures by the 'well-placed' currently on survival estates, including the government itself for it's chosen people, via the above black budget funding. :rolleyes:

the fact that not one nation on this planet, at present, is making any attempt to conserve anything for future generations.

these facts, don't add up to the first, otherwise plausible theory. and there is too much of a 'professional quality' to the debunking, as these listed witnessed findings are brought up in conversation. i have watched it here on the 'files, consistently.

and i am not speaking of natural, and healthy skepticism, for this i have deep respect.

the current silly hollywood movie by this name is more of the same game of 'debunking'. but i believe, much more accurately, it would be better termed PysOps.

The long count mayan calendar is not a chipped rock. it is a math sequence, highly complex and accurate. and it is one of the few things that was/ is not held very close to the breast of the vatican, and The PTB. it is also sublimely simple, and can be made from wood, like an abacus or working wooden clock. it is based of a science of sun measurement which our great and modern society has only recently been able to even measure.Not hardly. Astronomy is one of the earliest sciences, well known throughout the world

we sacrafice warriors for profit here too, are we primitive?

much more important than the mayans, is that countless surviving records of ancient cultures have left simular statements of this 'cosmic cycle' in their wake. Yes, which contradicts your last assertion

that our scientific community (or the hand which controls the mass media) knows all these things if true (or would tell us), is the height of arrogance - or a fools errand, in regard to our mutual plight, and this thread.

so this is a bit of why i say "there is something afoot here, and we are able to perceive it." read the internet, and read carefully, your life depends on this research.

the theory goes basically like this:

the .gov is quite aware that we have three years until major solar system/planetary disruptions end most life, and most of our civilization. thus there is no reason to conserve anything. the warming planet (like our whole solar system presently) and rapidly weakening magnetic spheres will begin showing obvious signs quite soon, and everyone is going to totally panic. and they know this will continue for several years into 2012. they simply don't want a rush on their own well stocked survival places. locking folks up first is their best plan. and only plan, for they are scared shitless, and i personally don't think very well prepared actually. (norad in a mountain? out in space?)
bullshit, you base this on what, exactly?
Mere paraonoid assertion, it appears.


everything we have discussed as far as martial law, makes sense suddenly, as do all the other 'usually unmentionables' i have listed above. they know there's going to be an uprising, and they want a plausible reason (economic, pandemic, terrorist, UN treaty, pending war etc.) to keep an upper, ie, controlling hand in an otherwise beyond volatile situation. world wide.

doc it is interesting that your list of disasters is exactly what is going to happen, and yet, all at one time. Perhaps, perhaps not yes it is biblical, remember the flood? a 10,000 plus year old story, borrowed from a culture which went through the last solar disruption ... and survived to leave word for the future generations of man. you are one whom can correlate what you know, with that which you do not know yet. i will help:

the sun is an electromagnet, which is wound by the gravitational pull of the surrounding planets. the sun's equator spins faster than it's poles, in fact lapping the poles position every 87 days, producing current. there is a point, which we have arrived at, where the entire system 'collapses', that is 'unwinds itself' and that is the 12,000 year cycle of life on this planet. Rubbish!

think back real hard: what happened 12,000 years ago? nada, we know nothing. Correct. people were living in caves and huts, eeking out hunter/gatherer existence. There was no written language
Sumerea? then egypt, then we know lots. what happened 48,000 years ago which led to the Vedic texts? or 90,000 years ago with the Dogone Peoples, which had astronomical awareness of Sirius A/B and the invisible red giant "C"? where is any continuity is this fractured history of Man? Why have we as a race never left this solar system, especially noting again today the level of technology we are actually at the threshold of? What event constantly stops Mankind's advancement?Mankind has continued to advance with occassional setbacks. Nothing extraordinary there.
As for people 90,000 years ago having scientific advancement, there is no evidence for that I am aware of. perhaps in fairy tales.

Fire and brimstone! that is quite right.

when the 'system collapses' (note our magnetic shield is showing huge holes currently) the inner planets are blasted which solar radiation. the EMP stops everything electronic. the blast fractures the tectonic plates. it shifts the poles. we lose our normal protection from meteorites. we experience plasma blasts.Bullshit. Loss of protection from solar radiation would be very bad, that much I will agree with.
As far as that fracturing tectonic plates and causing pole shifts, there is NO evidence I am aware of to support this.
Further, if as you seem to believe, our tectonic plates would shift 1000s of miles in seconds, there is no way to protect yourself from that other than to be a long way from this planet. I would contend, however, that you have no evidence to support this assertion.

we get destroyed. volcanos erupt everywhere. the planet stops, but the oceans don't. refer to the trailer of "2012" with the Enterprise rolling onto the White House. toxic waste is everywhere. nuke plants all melt down, and we get to contend with that aspect of the clean air industry. well, when there is a pole shift, I can at least agree that it is likely we will have a lot of earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. Very bad time to be inhabiting planet Earth.
The problem is what causes it and at this point it is unknown, except apparently to a few lunatics who write books and fleece the population with fantastic stories of fear, destruction and divine retribution.

Now, all of that said, I can see some possibilities for these events to occur secondary to large asteroid strikes but the idea that this is going to happen on a certain date which we can predict at this point is preposterous.

prior cultures dealt with this two ways: crawl into a hole and hope you're not squashed like a bug; or build an 'ark', or more commonly, a flotilla, and pray you can find some semblance of a shore line soon enough. if you can breathe in the engulfing volcanic fumes. it worked, for a few, every time, because i am writing this now.

one expectation of this event on Earth is a remaining stock of merely 10,000 breeding pairs. civilisation would require 100,000 such pairs to maintain what we have achieved so far. doesn't seem to work like that, judging history.

the sun, post-event, starts over it's cycle. the solar system is 'refreshed' and gradually returns to the protected /balanced state it once was, post ice-age, 12,000 years ago. the sea is cleaned and cold again. "atlantis" is again buried forever.

the gentleman i named above has stated this all most eloquently with interesting graphics via his web site. he was also the one whom was paid to advise the movie makers of "2012", and of which he was sorely disappointed in how hollywood twisted his findings and research. Patrick Geryl.I looked over his site and I've been there several times in the past over such threads. This guy is either nuts or he is just out to make a lot of money fleecing others. IMHO.

hope this all opened a few minds.

it has settled mine.

... at 7,000 ft. with an underground shelter and a get-a-way non-capsizable unsinkable ocean worthy boat just in case, and NO PASSPORT required. just divine providence. The US is going to get mighty cold soon.

and salty. ;-)rubbish

BTW, if the Earth's tectonic plates shift 1000mi in a few seconds, the very last place I would want to be is underground.

Unless, of course, I wanted to be squashed like a bug.

Blue,
As for why the current events taking place in our nation are ongoing I think that is a fine topic of discussion.

Start a GD thread and i will post in it.
This thread is getting way, WAYYY off topic.

Add to list :
Prescription meds.
These would be hard to come by and will cost a high price on the black market.
Folks have mentioned the extra pair of glasses which is excellent.
Now,
Most prescription meds are refillable 27days into a 30 day prescription.
The insurance company will let it go through.
Keep getting them refilled as early as you can and keep the freshest three or four day stash set aside.
It will mount up.

Add to list :
Prescription meds.
These would be hard to come by and will cost a high price on the black market.
Folks have mentioned the extra pair of glasses which is excellent.
Now,
Most prescription meds are refillable 27days into a 30 day prescription.
The insurance company will let it go through.
Keep getting them refilled as early as you can and keep the freshest three or four day stash set aside.
It will mount up.
Some meds are cheap, just depends.
Further, oftentimes cheaper alternatives are available for fallback.

Explain your concerns to your doc and he can write you a Rx that you can fill on your own for cash.

Don't expect much if you are one of those pts who screws around with their own meds though. Too dangerous.

That said, if your doc is a dick about this, maybe you should consider another doc. Depends on you and him/her, I guess.

Blue,
As for why the current events taking place in our nation are ongoing I think that is a fine topic of discussion.

Start a GD thread and i will post in it.
This thread is getting way, WAYYY off topic.



thanks for the Y and N's Doc. I do appreciate healthy and level skeptisism, as i stated. am off line for a few days, scouting ... will consider how to follow your advice up in GeneralDPopulation once back. carry on, this thread is good.

plates move in lurches, mastadons survived the last shift (frozen bodies show) w/o breaking their heavy bones, and we can too. travel light, move fast, always good advice.

plates move in lurches,
SMALL lurches
If the tectonic plates moved as much as you suppose most all complex life on this planet would be destroyed and there would be no excaping it.

Might such a mass extinction occur at some point?
Sure. In fact, I sould submit that it a virtual guarantee at some point but I don't see the sort of catclysmic plate shifts you propose. It's just not the way things work according to the laws of physics.

We would have to be hit with an asteroid of gigantic proportions which would destroy all life and turn the Earth in a ball of molten rock.

mastadons survived the last shift (frozen bodies show) w/o breaking their heavy bones, and we can too. travel light, move fast, always good advice.How do you figure that?