View Thread: Obama to circumvent 2A


nymoshigh
This is nuts. If this happens, this is my line in the sand.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE59E0Q920091015

By Arshad Mohammed

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States reversed policy on Wednesday and said it would back launching talks on a treaty to regulate arms sales as long as the talks operated by consensus, a stance critics said gave every nation a veto.

The decision, announced in a statement released by the U.S. State Department, overturns the position of former President George W. Bush's administration, which had opposed such a treaty on the grounds that national controls were better.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the United States would support the talks as long as the negotiating forum, the so-called Conference on the Arms Trade Treaty, "operates under the rules of consensus decision-making."

"Consensus is needed to ensure the widest possible support for the Treaty and to avoid loopholes in the Treaty that can be exploited by those wishing to export arms irresponsibly," Clinton said in a written statement.

While praising the Obama administration's decision to overturn the Bush-era policy and to proceed with negotiations to regulate conventional arms sales, some groups criticized the U.S. insistence that decisions on the treaty be unanimous.

"The shift in position by the world's biggest arms exporter is a major breakthrough in launching formal negotiations at the United Nations in order to prevent irresponsible arms transfers," Amnesty International and Oxfam International said in a joint statement.

However, they said insisting that decisions on the treaty be made by consensus "could fatally weaken a final deal."

"Governments must resist US demands to give any single state the power to veto the treaty as this could hold the process hostage during the course of negotiations. We call on all governments to reject such a veto clause," said Oxfam International's policy adviser Debbie Hillier.

The proposed legally binding treaty would tighten regulation of, and set international standards for, the import, export and transfer of conventional weapons.

Supporters say it would give worldwide coverage to close gaps in existing regional and national arms export control systems that allow weapons to pass onto the illicit market.

Nations would remain in charge of their arms export control arrangements but would be legally obliged to assess each export against criteria agreed under the treaty. Governments would have to authorize transfers in writing and in advance.

The main opponent of the treaty in the past was the U.S. Bush administration, which said national controls were better. Last year, the United States accounted for more than two-thirds of some $55.2 billion in global arms transfer deals.

Arms exporters China, Russia and Israel abstained last year in a U.N. vote on the issue.

The proposed treaty is opposed by conservative U.S. think tanks like the Heritage Foundation, which said last month that it would not restrict the access of "dictators and terrorists" to arms but would be used to reduce the ability of democracies such as Israel to defend their people.

The U.S. lobbying group the National Rifle Association has also opposed the treaty.

A resolution before the U.N. General Assembly is sponsored by seven nations including major arms exporter Britain. It calls for preparatory meetings in 2010 and 2011 for a conference to negotiate a treaty in 2012.

lsmurphy
I don't see what you see.

Scott

n16ht5
im lost...

drjarhead
Bottom line is that other people's are not deemed to require freedom. The same despotic govts that rule over them will be protected and isolated from their own peoples.


I know this has been touted as a way to prevent gun sales in the US. It MIGHT be utilized to prevent arms sales under the treaty as a way of preventing guns getting to Mehico, etc.


However, I don't get the line in the sand comment.
What exactly does that mean?
If the US approves this treaty that you are going to go on the attack against govt installations? That you would join an armed revolt? What, exactly.

I mean, seriously, if they haven't crossed your line yet, then they aren't going to.

nymoshigh
Treaties are the law of the land. The gov't can just sign these freakin things (or at least thats my understanding) without discussion, debate or oversight. I am worried that this is an avenue that O can use to get around 2A.

Please correct me if I am wrong. Here is the initial link I found that got me a little worked up.
http://tpartyus2010.ning.com/profiles/blogs/obama-takes-first-step-in


Line in the sand yes. They have not crossed it yet. Peaceful non-participation is what I would exercise. Nothing more.

Pvt.Joker
Molon Labe; treaties be damned...

mrkrinker
I don't see what you see.

Scott

cus in all these treaties, hidden somewhere, there will be language that would ban all sales of assault type weapons and/or will say flat out, these weapon are tooo dangerous for non military ppl. its the same ol same bullshit they been tryn for ever.

ENGLISH MIKE
This is smoke & mirrors: Calling for a treaty by consensus & without veto guarantees it wont happen because there's always someone who will object to something.

IanMor
Line in the sand yes. They have not crossed it yet. Peaceful non-participation is what I would exercise. Nothing more.


Ohhh, Billy-bad ass! That's gotta right scare the shit outta the .gov types!!!

"Peaceful non-participation"? Did you even read that shit before you posted it? It makes no sense what so ever.

With an iron resolve like yours I'm sure this country will survive.

We are so fucked. :skull_cro :skull: :skull_cro

AK-Rulz
O can sign a treaty without any input from Congress, Govenors, etc.

To quote Lou Dobbs: "The rest of the world can kiss my ass."

fullautotogo
Treaties are the law of the land. The gov't can just sign these freakin things (or at least thats my understanding) without discussion, debate or oversight.

Pay attention boys and grils, as I spell this out one more time. That includes you too Akrules(as best you can anyhow).

0 can sign any treaty[ies] he likes, BUT it is little better than shit paper until 2/3's of the senate ratifies it. You can't get 2/3's of the senate to agree on anything......So while we watch our country burn and do nothing about it......It will be a safeguard put in place by the Founders that saves us from this. Not endless bullshit crying about lines in the sand..........

Ian's right....We are fucked to death!

n16ht5
Ohhh, Billy-bad ass! That's gotta right scare the shit outta the .gov types!!!

"Peaceful non-participation"? Did you even read that shit before you posted it? It makes no sense what so ever.

With an iron resolve like yours I'm sure this country will survive.

We are so fucked. :skull_cro :skull: :skull_cro


yeah. Im with Ian. were hosed. I think ill start stocking up on beer because I'm going down fighting.. alone

gotmine
They're gonna limit your fridge's beer capacity also...Hi-cap fridges are too dangerous to have unless you're LEO or military.

TACTIUS
no treaty can be superior in authority to the constitution



not that they havent been ignoring the constitution all this time....they should pay for that