Rom PSL Recorded at 1200fps

Look at that barrel wobble. :-(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozyw84Swmb4

Look at that barrel wobble. :-(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozyw84Swmb4</object>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozyw84Swmb4

makes you wonder if one should lube any metal to metal contact points on the entire rifle as they ALL seem to move

WOW,I wonder how much movement there is when the barrel is really hot.

WOW! :uhoh_smal

That barrel wobble is a very good reason to cut them shorter. :cool_smal Maybe this is why the newer SVD's have a shorter barrel?

I would like to know if that is light-ball or heavy-ball ammo, the bolt does slam to the rear on every shot creating a second recoil pulse.

Talk about checking for flex cracks after xxxxx amount of rounds fired. :(

Maybe this explain the cracked upper hand guards?

PS. Oh yea awesome vid, thanks for sharing, made me want to duck when the empty casing flys to the lense of the camera on the 1st shot, way cool!

I am thinking the stamped sheet metal receiver coupled with the long piston system is causing the majority of the flexing. Why has no US manufacturer made there own line of improved PSL or build an American made SVD.

I watched that like 8 times. wow. I want to chop my barrel now

I am thinking the stamped sheet metal receiver coupled with the long piston system is causing the majority of the flexing. Why has no US manufacturer made there own line of improved PSL or build an American made SVD.
I think the US made SVD idea is a good one. Ive wondered that myself. But I think the reason is cost. It would cost so much in tooling to make one that you would end up losing money on it. Alot of semi automatic sniper systems exist that are more accurateand practical than a dragunov. Basically Im saying mainly only collecters would buy them and they wouldn't make enough money on em to cover tooling. I promise to start production after I win the powerball.

Maybe its not a problem,has anyone here fired several thousands rounds in their PSL and noticed any changes.Just curious.

After looking at the video for god knows how many times, I have to say that it looks like the muzzle break is causing the wobble on the barrel.

There is way more gas being blown upwards than down, this explain the wobble.

If the gas is/would be directed equally in all directions it will cancel the barrel wobble. The barrel moves before the bolt carrier hits the rear trunnion.

The fact that the barrel is so thin and long does not help at all.

The slam of the BCG to the rear trunnion is so strong that it would not make any difference on what muzzle break you use to try and manage recoil. I figure that a longer receiver and recoil spring assembly would solve the problem.

Controlling barrel wobble is paramount front my point of view.

Wish the shooter would try again with different muzzle breaks/compensator's or flash hider, till one causes the barrel to stay steady.

After looking at the video for god knows how many times, I have to say that it looks like the muzzle break is causing the wobble on the barrel.

In that case I am glad I replaced my muzzle break with an svd style flash hider.

I think the US made SVD idea is a good one. Ive wondered that myself. But I think the reason is cost. It would cost so much in tooling to make one that you would end up losing money on it. Alot of semi automatic sniper systems exist that are more accurateand practical than a dragunov. Basically Im saying mainly only collecters would buy them and they wouldn't make enough money on em to cover tooling. I promise to start production after I win the powerball.

You are right tooling the whole system would be expensive and time consuming. That's why it would make a lot of sense to import as many parts as you could. Rifles are relatively simple, I just don't see why it has not been done.

http://world.guns.ru/sniper/svd_3.jpg

US Parts:
Receiver
Trigger
Barrel
Flash Hider

Imported Parts:
Hand guard
Butt stock
Bolt carrier
Gas system
Front sight

why do you guys get all worked up over the video, i have had my psl out 6 times now, over 450 rounds, no problems, and i have got out to 700 meters 8 out of ten on a 1' X 1' target. i love my psl

why do you guys get all worked up over the video, i have had my psl out 6 times now, over 450 rounds, no problems, and i have got out to 700 meters 8 out of ten on a 1' X 1' target. i love my psl

The video shows a very good source of possible cause of current problems with this rifles and or future problems due to metal flex fatigue, specially with the barrel muzzle break combination with the rifle in the video.

I for one would like to find a fix to the possible future problems with my rifle. The fix could be as simple as properly clocking the muzzle break or possibly the replacement of it for one that compensates in all directions.

I understand the Russian Dragnov will shoot more accurately with its bayonet attached. A matter of dampening harmonic frequencies. Some rifles have doughnuts the shooter moves along the barrels length until best accuracy is dialed. Such a device is also marketed for the Ruger mini.

I remember in school watching a super slow motion video of a person's foot while they were running. All the jiggling and flexing of the foot bones made me think my whole foot would collapse the next time I ran.

Dudes, ALL barrels flex, even bull barrels. They would fail if they didn't. It's like sitting on a interstate overpass with semi's slowly rolling past. You bounce up and down. Otherwise the overpass developes cracks and fails. It's physics! It's ok. Ever see one of the early M16 "pencil barrels" in slow mo? Many of those barrels went 10's of thousands of rounds and no failure. The PSL barrel isn't any thinner than many Remington 700, Winchester Model 70, Savage 110's, etc out there. Super heat your bull barrel and it will string groups also(plus it will take mega longer to cool down). Easier to heat a 10 round semi-auto barrel than that 5 round bolt action. Just my $.02......Mike

Sorry for being sort of paranoid :uhoh_smal after seen how the barrel of my rifle could be wobbling just like the one in the video due to the original PSL break directing gas unevenly.

At any rate I like to play it safe :cool_smal and swapped muzzle devices from the screw on PSL break to an AMD 65 compensator that I had laying around.

Now I need to work on the recoil spring assembly and for the time being a thin/soft buffer is in order, you have to be blind not to see that on the video. Granted the shooter could be using heavy ball ammo. But from my experience shooting my PSL with light ball ammo it seem like the BCG does slam/bottom out against the rear trunnion.

If I was in denial or selling this rifles I would tell you not to worry, to each it's own, only time will tell for sure. On the mean time the video puts it in your face you decide what you are seeing. :confused:

WOW! :uhoh_smal

That barrel wobble is a very good reason to cut them shorter. :cool_smal Maybe this is why the newer SVD's have a shorter barrel?

I would like to know if that is light-ball or heavy-ball ammo, the bolt does slam to the rear on every shot creating a second recoil pulse.

Talk about checking for flex cracks after xxxxx amount of rounds fired. :(

Maybe this explain the cracked upper hand guards?

PS. Oh yea awesome vid, thanks for sharing, made me want to duck when the empty casing flys to the lense of the camera on the 1st shot, way cool!


Newer SVDs??

I'm fairly certain these are Tigr Dragunovs. The military SVDs have the longer barrels. Its the sporterised Tigr that has a shorter barrel. And so far there does not seem to be much talk of Tigrs being any more accurate.


The fact that PSLs get loose is old news. This film is slowed way down. This shooter is dumping the mag and if you watch the barrel, it gets looser as it heats up. This is just confirmation of old news. Don't rapid fire your PSL. It isn't made for it.

I am thinking the stamped sheet metal receiver coupled with the long piston system is causing the majority of the flexing. Why has no US manufacturer made there own line of improved PSL or build an American made SVD.


Or could the issue be the barrel is way too skinny for a .30 caliber rifle. Think about it. this bullet is big! look at any 5.56 rifle the barrel wall is way thicker than that on a psl and the bullet??? Its a 22 cal!!! . The PSL is an eastern block piece of warfare hardware. Easy to make cheap to make. easy to maintain and effective enough to get the job done. The SVD barrel will flex just the same. Its only slightly thicker and the thin barrel is a common complaint amongst shooters. These two guns work just fine the way they are. The stamped receiver is not the culprit, it's the barrel.... period.

Ive seen kreiger sleeves added to a Tigr " a hardened steel sleeve that stiffens the barrel" and still little improvement worth mentioning. But to be fair these rifles really don't require much for improvement. If You shoot them the way they are designed to be operated they do pretty well.

Sorry for being sort of paranoid :uhoh_smal after seen how the barrel of my rifle could be wobbling just like the one in the video due to the original PSL break directing gas unevenly.

At any rate I like to play it safe :cool_smal and swapped muzzle devices from the screw on PSL break to an AMD 65 compensator that I had laying around.

Now I need to work on the recoil spring assembly and for the time being a thin/soft buffer is in order, you have to be blind not to see that on the video. Granted the shooter could be using heavy ball ammo. But from my experience shooting my PSL with light ball ammo it seem like the BCG does slam/bottom out against the rear trunnion.

If I was in denial or selling this rifles I would tell you not to worry, to each it's own, only time will tell for sure. On the mean time the video puts it in your face you decide what you are seeing. :confused:


Geesh go find 1200 frame per second video footage of other long guns! I bet they all get flexy a bit!!

Fact is the rifle is just get more popular. the biggest problem is breaking the little shit. like BHO! Other wise the gun has an increasingly good reputation.

For god sakes Youtube is My teacher now????WTF????!!!!! Must be true its on YOUTUBE JESUS!!

While we're on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMae8-vOrBU

(SVD is at about 7:40 - but the whole video is worth the watch!)
*to be more accurate, it's an NDM-86, not a Russian SVD

Newer SVDs??

I'm fairly certain these are Tigr Dragunovs. The military SVDs have the longer barrels. Its the sporterised Tigr that has a shorter barrel. And so far there does not seem to be much talk of Tigrs being any more accurate.


The fact that PSLs get loose is old news. This film is slowed way down. This shooter is dumping the mag and if you watch the barrel, it gets looser as it heats up. This is just confirmation of old news. Don't rapid fire your PSL. It isn't made for it.

Well I saw this rifle a while back and thought it was a newer SVD, it actually is a SVDS (see picture)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Izhmash_SVDS_Sniper_Rifle.jpg

It turns out to be a variant of the SVD, sure looked like a newer one to me. :)

Just look at the 1st shot out the rifle, see barrel wobble, enough said. :huh_small

Geesh go find 1200 frame per second video footage of other long guns! I bet they all get flexy a bit!!

Fact is the rifle is just get more popular. the biggest problem is breaking the little shit. like BHO! Other wise the gun has an increasingly good reputation.

For god sakes Youtube is My teacher now????WTF????!!!!! Must be true its on YOUTUBE JESUS!!

Well thanks to SPAS-12 we have another long gun in slow mo to compare to, just look at the SVD and enjoy straight back recoil in to the shooter with no wobble on the barrel. Also look at the way the gas is diffused from the SVD flash suppressor.

YouTube is awesome, got to love it. :rofl_smal

I love my PSL just as much as all the guy's here, yet I am not blind or a fanatic just tell it like I see it. All mechanical things fail sooner or later, why not try to correct a possible problem before it get worst or causes other failures.

That's pretty cool looking slow mo but it is not 1200 frames per second. Its way too choppy. Hey, i get your point dude. but shit go buy a ar-10! your gonna throw a shit load of money into this platform? this is a 500 to 600 dollar rifle! All I know is they are affordable, they are fairly accurate for a kalashnikov and also are reliable. Do what ya want with your gun, but there is plenty of negativity out here already about this rifle. your right it ain't and SVD a $15,000 dollar rifle. fifteen grand dude. Or a dollar menu tigr for three grand.. And for some reason when put to the test against the SVD the PSL always measures up. Weird huh????

I think if You keep to the guide lines (light ball ammo and keep the rate of fire down) You will have a nice rifle for a long time.


Now please go get some true 1200 frame rate footage of the SVD then make your argument. I would be willing to bet with a hot barrel the skinny ass SVD will wobble a bunch too. This video was posted over a the other ak site. a few guys replied by mentioning they have seen film of other Kalashnikovs doing the same thing.

They are not perfect, the design is from 1947!

Thats my final 2 cents.

That's pretty cool looking slow mo but it is not 1200 frames per second. Its way too choppy. Hey, i get your point dude. but shit go buy a ar-10! your gonna throw a shit load of money into this platform? this is a 500 to 600 dollar rifle! All I know is they are affordable, they are fairly accurate for a kalashnikov and also are reliable. Do what ya want with your gun, but there is plenty of negativity out here already about this rifle. your right it ain't and SVD a $15,000 dollar rifle. fifteen grand dude. or a dollar menu tigr for three grand.. And for some reason when put to the test against the SVD it always measures up. Weird huh????


Now please go get some true 1200 frame rate footage of the SVD. then make your argument.

No need :cool_smal . I saw all I need to see to figure what needs to be taken care of for the time being ;) . Thanks to YouTube and choppy video.

No surprises on the PSL performance against the SVD, the PSL is just awesome for the money. The fact that the rifle is cheap does not make me lay off when I see something that could possibly make it fail prematurely.

Like I said before

At any rate I like to play it safe and swapped muzzle devices from the screw on PSL break to an AMD 65 compensator that I had laying around.

Now I need to work on the recoil spring assembly and for the time being a thin/soft buffer is in order,

So no money spent on the original PSL break replacement and the slamming on the rear trunion may be a matter of replacing the recoil spring with a stiffer one.

DUDE is all good! :wink_smal

The wobble in the barrel is 100% normal. Just like any rifle barrel, wobble is nothing special at all. See the AK barrel wobble at the beginning of this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6BpI3xD6h0

and the ak platform lasts through who knows how many thousands of rounds.

Thank you Grantman. This really is the point. All rifle barrels flex around and move. some more than others. no doubt the Kalashnikovs flex and treverse along there platforms. And this is as the video Grant has posted is mostly due to the long action of the heavy bolt carrier. It really is fairly common knowledge amongst Kalashnikov enthusiasts. This has never been an issue to the ruggedness and rigid reliability that is standard issue with most AK-47 type fire arms.
In a word this wobble is not going to hurt your gun.

At any rate, Your not the first to dream up ways to improve the weapon I think We all have spent time pondering this. Good luck, it would kick ass if someone has a breakthrough. But for now I'll settle for the fact that most would consider and many have concluded, that the Kalashnikov design is the best (not in terms of accuracy of course) and most effective rifle ever fielded. Well at least on History and the Military channels..... :small_gri


Now I gotta go back to work DAMMIT! :mad_small

1st of all thanks for the great videos!

It is obvious that the AK 47 in the video needs a new recoil spring or a stronger one also a compensator from a AK 74 will help on the barrel wobble.

Check out the video I found on a Mak 90 with a slant break, much less barrel wobble if any :wink_smal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCF_XoIlNSE

:( Sad to admit that one of my favorite rifles wobbles all over the place like that and consider it normal :( .

What if the Romanians ran out of Vodka when they where choosing muzzle device for the PSL :confused:

meh, it aint that big a deal.

who freaks out when they see the wings of an airliner bounce all around at 30,000 ft?

some things that are are too stiff will just crack under tension and force

Accuracy is a lot about the bullet leaving the barrel at the SAME POINT in its flex cycle.

Look at high speed film of an M16A1 & it flexes horribly but the bullet leaves the barrel at virtually the same point every time - there's a video out there showing just that.

meh, it aint that big a deal.

who freaks out when they see the wings of an airliner bounce all around at 30,000 ft?

some things that are are too stiff will just crack under tension and force

Not to go in to something different, yet aircraft do go trough metal fatigue inspections (X-ray of sorts) at regular intervals (flight hours) so to detect cracks in the fuselage and wings before they can cause a failure (in flight breakage). This is why aircraft get retired most of the time because it is cheaper to buy a new one than to overhaul the airframe and wings.

I used to work at a Air Force aircraft overhaul depot here in San Antonio TX. I worked mostly on C-5 Galaxy's cargo aircraft a little on B-52 Bombers and got to see the C-130's as they where leaving. Mostly doing flight-prep work on the last 4 years.

If you think that a flopping wing is scary, try to pay attention to the spinning rivets on the wings and or spot a hydraulic fluid leak spraying out of the aileron area every time the plane turns/banks :uhoh_smal .

Heads up flying in Airbus 300 series aircraft with composite vertical stabilizer in heavy turbulence, can you say snap!

If you think that a flopping wing is scary, try to pay attention to the spinning rivets on the wings and or spot a hydraulic fluid leak spraying out of the aileron area every time the plane turns/banks :uhoh_smal .

Heads up flying in Airbus 300 series aircraft with composite vertical stabilizer in heavy turbulence, can you say snap!


ugh...

no thanks!

my wife is an auzzie so we usually go back every winter for abit.

flying across the pacific at 40,000 ft in the 747, watching the wings bounce, and not only that, but the outside engine (the one you can see real good when siting in a window seat rearward of the wing) swaying back and forth...

let just say the first time i saw that during turbulence i had to close the little window and pretend i was off in happy land elsewhere...

i'm used to it now..

back on topic. yeah, planes are different than guns... but like EM said, whats important is that the barrel whip is the same shot after shot.]


i guess this is the same reason why freefloating barrels increase accuracy, makes the barrel whip more even.

all i know is i'm very happy with the accuracy of my PSL, and so far i haven't heard of any of these rifles busting loose at the seams, so as far as i'm concerned, everything is all good.

While we're on the subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMae8-vOrBU

(SVD is at about 7:40 - but the whole video is worth the watch!)
*to be more accurate, it's an NDM-86, not a Russian SVD

Another video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS4tYKJ-RvQ

Look how smooth, rigged and consistent the svd is compared to our PSLs.

So far i haven't heard of any of these rifles busting loose at the seams, so as far as i'm concerned, everything is all good.

Maybe that's what my rifle did.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55578

Emptied the mag in a short amount of time more then once. It's might have caused a fracture?

Maybe that's what my rifle did.

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55578

Emptied the mag in a short amount of time more then once. It's might have caused a fracture?


Looking at Your photo this looks to be a factory defect. My supervisor grew up two miles from Cugir Romania, He mentioned he put in work at the arsenal as part of a vocational training program during his high school years. Alex said these rifles are "smashed" together almost by hand and mallet. This fracture looks like the material was smashed and failed.

But it probably would be smarter to take it easy on the rate of fire. PSLs really weren't made to dump ammo.

Back to My Romanian boss, when I mentioned My Romanian rifle He laughed and asked "why would You want a Romanian firearm?" :rofl_smal :rofl_smal

I replied "it's a simple, mean, rugged rifle and its just cool." He was understanding of this answer.

Looking at Your photo this looks to be a factory defect. My supervisor grew up two miles from Cugir Romania, He mentioned he put in work at the arsenal as part of a vocational training program during his high school years. Alex said these rifles are "smashed" together almost by hand and mallet. This fracture looks like the material was smashed and failed.

My PSL has a lot of hammering marks in the same location that your rifle cracked and on the other side also.

Since the front trunnion has been compromise due to careless tooling from the start the rifle as an assembly is subject to develop cracks in this area even with moderate rate of fire firing. The barrel moving all over the place does not help.

I would like to know how many people out there have the same tooling marks at the barrel/trunnion pin location.

I would venture to say that the front trunnion on the PSL is salvaged from RPK's in a very crude way, then afterwards installed in to the PSL receiver by other means. I say this because the barrel to trunnion pin looks good with no tool marks.

It's not that bad...same as the however many millions of AK's out there. Most likely a combination of the thinnish barrel contour and long stroke gas piston...as the heavy piston and bolt/carrier tend to impart more force on the barrel than a lightweight bolt group/small short stroke piston.

Nevertheless, while impressive to watch, I think it's fairly irrelevant...and still not as bad as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5pVya7eask

Accuracy is a lot about the bullet leaving the barrel at the SAME POINT in its flex cycle.

Look at high speed film of an M16A1 & it flexes horribly but the bullet leaves the barrel at virtually the same point every time - there's a video out there showing just that.

Which is one of the points of working up very precise handloads for ANY rifle; to get consistency of speed both of the bullet AND of what works with the harmonics of that particular rifle for a given powder charge, type, and weight of bullet for the twist rate of the rifling. Consistency is the secret. After that, it is a matter of adjustments in aim and working on shooting technique.