View Thread: What makes a receiver a FA


CountryBoy
I'm sure these questions have been asked and answered many times here, but I can't seem to find these exact questions answered.

What exactly is it, that converts a standard receiver into a FA gun?
Is is the removal of the metal when you drill that other hole set into the receiver?

Also, what if I owned a semi-automatic AK that had a FA bolt carrier, and also owned a drill template, and the two drills required to drill the proper sized holes in the receiver. Do I then own a FA weapon? If not what if, in addition to the template and drills, I also had the other 4 (or is it 5) FA "replacement parts" in my possession? Do I then own an FA weapon?

Is there case law covering at what point in the above actions you cross the line from legal to illegal?

Of course I am biased, but it seems to me that "intent" is kind of like the thought police.

Edited to add:My reason for asking all this is I would like to be as far as possible along the line of being able to convert in case the balloon goes up.

KernelKrink
The third hole is enough to classify the receiver as FA, no other parts or mods required. I would think simply owning a drill template with the drills and a semi auto receiver is enough "intent" for most juries. Unless you are an FFL licensed to make MGs there is no legal use for that combo.

CountryBoy
So therefore, I don't want to own the template and a AK with a FA bolt carrier.
At what point would you think intent would be provable with the owning of the replacement FA parts? I realize this is a subjective question, but I would think by now the BATF would have said, "Okay here is the line you must not cross. Owning the gun and 4 of the 5 parts is illegal but owning the gun and 3 of the parts is not illegal.
Does anyone on this board know if the BATF has been asked these questions?

KernelKrink
Edited to add:My reason for asking all this is I would like to be as far as possible along the line of being able to convert in case the balloon goes up.
Your first post edit establishes your intent, so any FA parts now in your possession would only add confirmation to that. I suggest you divest yourself of them ASAP.

That said, everyone who has ever ordered a FA AK kit has received the complete FA FCG and carrier. Since they have not broadcast their intent to build/convert their rifles to FA on a website viewed by thousands every day, it is a little harder to establish intent for them. As long as they have no third hole in their receiver, possessing all the parts does not seem to be a problem with the Feds. You start adding drilling jigs or "how to" books to the mix then intent starts to get clearer.

knall
Your first post edit establishes your intent, so any FA parts now in your possession would only add confirmation to that. I suggest you divest yourself of them ASAP.

That said, everyone who has ever ordered a FA AK kit has received the complete FA FCG and carrier. Since they have not broadcast their intent to build/convert their rifles to FA on a website viewed by thousands every day, it is a little harder to establish intent for them. As long as they have no third hole in their receiver, possessing all the parts does not seem to be a problem with the Feds. You start adding drilling jigs or "how to" books to the mix then intent starts to get clearer. WOW seriously dude red flags all around. start burning your paperwork and crushing your parts.

legaly the reciever is SA until the 3rd hole is drilled. INTENT is just that.... INTENT. BATF left it an open term on purpose. You sir have clearly violated this "law" allready.

NewKrink
It's kinda like if you have a box of condoms but "intend" to stay a virgin.

Besides, I don't know your experience with firearms, but full auto realisticly doesn't have a practical place in SHTF due to the need to conserve ammo. Most people assume they will be "bugging out". This means you will have a very limited amount of ammo, and AK's are not nearly as accurate in full auto as say an M16 or MP5.
Now if you're "bugging in", then that's a different situation. A full auto AK can be a valuable weapon for a defensive position with an unlimited ammo supply.

CountryBoy
Thank you for your information and concern, and I appreciate your warnings, but they can come an look at any time. The only thing I own is an AK with a bolt carrier that is semi-auto only. I have not ordered any parts, nor have I bought any at a gun show. I have not bought a drill fixture nor have I downloaded any "how-to" information. I asked some questions and gave a reason for my questions. Good luck to them on having any case based on that.

NewK I am 71 years old so where do you think my line in the sand is drawn?
Also, as retired military with 3 tours in SE Asia in the mid and late 60's I am well aware of what AK's can and can't do. I also have a very bitter taste in my mouth from the CAR. So much so that I would not own one if you gave it to me. Even today, it needs to be kept like a damn Queen with no dirt in the bedroom or it's "off". I will not reply to any AR vs AK reply

Again, thanks!

NewKrink
Thank you for your information and concern, and I appreciate your warnings, but they can come an look at any time. The only thing I own is an AK with a bolt carrier that is semi-auto only. I have not ordered any parts, nor have I bought any at a gun show. I have not bought a drill fixture nor have I downloaded any "how-to" information. I asked some questions and gave a reason for my questions. Good luck to them on having any case based on that.

NewK I am 71 years old so where do you think my line in the sand is drawn?
Also, as retired military with 3 tours in SE Asia in the mid and late 60's I am well aware of what AK's can and can't do. I also have a very bitter taste in my mouth from the CAR. So much so that I would not own one if you gave it to me. Even today, it needs to be kept like a damn Queen with no dirt in the bedroom or it's "off". I will not reply to any AR vs AK reply

Again, thanks!
Thank you for your service in SE asia sir. I mean that sincerely. I'm a Desert Storm vet. I know that we got a much better welcome home than you guys did for doing far less than you did. I'm sorry, and thank you again for your service, ...sincerely.

lextech
Isnt a slotted right side rail also concidered a no-no in a semi auto AK? Since it is the other receiver mod that needs to be done in an illegal (or legal if your certified) FA conversion.

KernelKrink
ATF currently sez the slotted rail is a no-no, however at least one legal import rifle came that way. No purpose for it on a semi auto, I wouldn't build one that way. At least with the imported one you can claim ATF approved it.

lextech
Yea I do remember that import, cant remember which though.

KernelKrink
Maadi, IIRC.

bill3542
Not a rip on anyone but has it been considered that CountryBoy is a BATF agent here trolling for the stupid!!!
we know that they visit the site looking for new fish to fry. CountryBoy if your not BATF are you looking to do 5-10 in a fed prison for intent? don't ask questions like this.

stansbrew
Same person posted he wants a f/a trigger group in another rhread? Just sayin'

knall
Same person posted he wants a f/a trigger group in another rhread? Just sayin' LOL

I am sure the feds will never make the conection.

allesennogwat
Early Maadi's have the slotted rail. There have been some WASR's with slotted rails though they aren't common. The Saiga's have slotted rails with the slots filled with weld.

BigAl
I believe the intent charge us USUALLY piled on when other charges are involved.

Example: Joe Blow builds a silencer and has the parts for 6 others around, there is the intent.